BA's A321's

[BWBriscoe]

Does anyone know when BA's A321's are arriving?

Which routes are they going to start them on?

BWB

[Localiser Green]

G-EUWA (c/n 2305) is due on 27th Oct 2004

Following aircraft are due:

2320 - 28th Oct 2004 (here is the fuselage section of 2320 emerging from the Guppy (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/656896/L/))
2323 - 29th Oct 2004
2324 - 4th Nov 2004

and those three will presumably be G-EUWB, C, D....

Remaining 6 firm A321 orders are due

2 in Dec 04
1 in May 05
1 in Aug 05
1 in Sep 05
1 in Oct 05

[BWBriscoe]

Which routes will we see them on at first? I can't find anything on the schedules yet.

BWB

[WHBM]

I've seen two alternative scenarios here on PPRuNe over time.

One was that the A321s would replace the remaining 757s, one-for-one, and as they are slightly smaller the Heathrow European operation would lose seats.

The other was the opposite, that they would replace, by cascading A321-A320-A319, an equal number of A319s for transfer to Gatwick to start replacing the 737s there, and as a result European capacity at Heathrow would be increased.

Which is correct please ?

[DC10FAN]

BA was clearly short-sighted in pensioning-off most of their 757 fleet. They still seem in demand particularly on the Domestic services. I've heard from several sources that within months of selling them, they had a shortage of capacity on some routes. I suspect this explains why the stored 767s were all brought back into service. I would guess at the following fleet manouvres:

B737-500/300s LGW>BHX/MAN
B737-400s retired(many gone already)
A319/A320s Some at LHR>LGW to replace the 737s
A321s at LHR to replace displaced A319/320s.
B757s continue in service(for 2-3 years)

Regards the A321 entry into service; I've managed to find these flights that have 321s allocated to:

28/10

0720-0940...1040-1105 LHR-CDG-LHR


31/10

0730-0945...1040-1100 LHR-AMS-LHR
1150-1440...1545-1650 LHR-CPH-LHR
1755-2010...2115-2135 LHR-AMS-LHR

1/11

0840-1055...1155-1215 LHR-AMS-LHR
1330-1540...1635-1650 LHR-AMS-LHR

[spoilers yellow]

Heard yesterday that due to lack of pilots to fly them, the first few A321 are going to be sent to GB Airwayss, possibly to operate out of manchester ( don`t know where to or how long they will stay there).

As far as the 757 goes, I have heard of no new rumours regarding getting rid of them.

WHBM- The plan was to replace lgw 737's with LHR A319 but that appears to be no longer happening, and I also understand that in the BA seating config, the A321 will actually have more seats than the 757 ( 190ish Vs 180).

[kirstys_little_man]

I believe the original plan (& stated above) was the transfer of some A319s to Gatwick to release some 733/735s to manchester which in turn would release some 146s & Jungle Jets to Birmingham.

KLM

[Currock Base]

The 321s won't be loaned out - there is no need. BA has plenty of Airbus crew who fly 319 / 320.


To work out which services are 321 download the BA timetable from the web site. They are all T4 services - presumably to avoid towing aircraft between T4 and T1.;)

[Wannabe Flyboy]

GVA is also getting a couple of 321 flight in November (I'm on one! :))

[spoilers yellow]

I think you will find that we are short of airbus pilots ( short on all fleets actually), and I can't say if that is the single reason behind the change of plan, but BA will not have all 10 ordered A321's at LHR.
I wouldn't believe the online timetable either, that is only updated from time to time and the aircraft type is often wrong anyway, due to operational and crewing requirements.
I flew a long-haul configured 767 to EDI a couple of days ago, and I'm sure that wasn't on the timetable!

[GoEDI]

I flew a long-haul configured 767 to EDI a couple of days ago

They visited EDI atleast half a dozen times during August, they are almost common at EDI just now.:p

[Jet A1]

One of the BA A321s´s is going to GB Airways (G-TTID) arriving in May 05. Also talk of another one from the BA order some time in 06.

Manchester will get 1, maybe 2 A320´s if Balpa dont get upset at a BA coloured plane making money !

[BWBriscoe]

So will there be MAN based A320 crews?

Why are they giving GB 2 of their aircraft?

[thegoaf]

Jet A1

How certain are you about the plane going to GB? GB have made no announcement about any expansion for next year and they normally do so well in advance. An extra aircraft, presumably at LGW implies 2 more R/T's per day. Does anyone know if they have been allocated the slots and if so for what routes?

I am surprised that any of BA's order should go to GB other than on a temporary basis as they need all those A321's at LHR. The plan had been to move progressively to an all Airbus single aisle fleet at LHR. Any surplus A319's would be moved to LGW to replace leased 737's with the 733's leaving first followed by the 735's, all of which are leased and were temporarily leased to replace the outlawed 732'a at MAN.

I would also guess that if BA could sell the remaining 757's they would replace those with A321's.

Even without selling the 757's I would expect an additional ordes for A321's to be announced soon for delivery in 2006 as part of a plan to get rid of all the short haul Boeings. I walso expect this be be part of the next cost-cutting round in BA.

[Angus Meecoat]

The BA 321s for GB are not for any expansion at LGW but to replace the 320s that will be going to MAN. Also the 321s will be operating out of LHR next summer to AGP etc.

GB taking BA aircraft is not new, I understand most of the 320s were bought on the back of the original BA order.
I think an announcement will be made very shortly but the routes out of MAN are typically GB ie AGP, ALC, GIB etc starting next April.

[Torquelink]

GB aren't taking "BA's" 320s/321s: they are exercising options under the overall BA order umbrella - in terms of ownership these aircraft have nothing to do with BA.

[DtyCln]

More A321's.....

From an Air Traffic point of view this is great news!

Never since the days of Caledonian Tristars leveling off at FL310 at CORK having been given continuous climb off LGW has an A/C been so bad at climbing. We have given up trying to get these bags of :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: into our upper sectors. Continuous climb off Manch last week, A/C was passing FL330 south of De Gaulle climbing at 200fpm.

Whoopee

[spoilers yellow]

Thegoaf.

I'm fairly certain there will be an announcment shortly regarding the A321 being operated by GB, and as far as getting rid of the 757 it isn't going to happen for a long time, the 75's we still have are fairly new (1995ish) and the A321 is being delivered with no IFE so they will not be replacing 75/76 on long routes such as LCA, DME. (and they don't come close to being able to carry the cargo over longer distances that the 75/76 can!)

I'm sure BA would love to simplify their LHR operation, but with no money to expand and not enough a/c to operate the existing schedule I think the boeing shorthaul fleet will be around for quite some time. :D :D :D