JIA to get high speed exit

[Deanw]

An extract from todays Business Report regarding R4bn airports upgrade projects by ACSA :

In a bid to reduce runway occupancy time the company would spend R100 million extending and refurbishing an exit taxiway in Johannesburg to allow aircraft to leave the runway at high speed as soon as they can.

[B Sousa]

Come on Dean, they can do that already, just gets a bit dusty.............

[UnderRadarControl]

Well well well... So JIA gets a rapid exit taxiway.

The poor ATC's there have got used to being blamed for everything related to delays. Whenever someone hits the heidelberg hold, atc dla. The fact that the radar systems are being upgraded to the tune of approx 230mil ZAR, it's only fair that now acsa started spending a little of its gigantic profits on the airport infrastructure.

Prior to this, only when landing on 03R and vacating on taxiway E, it led to a somewhat high taxi speed, as it isn't a perpendicular exit. At joburg the traffic is spaced 7 or 8 nm on final for the same runway where a heavy is in front, whereas the rest of the world is between 3.5 and 5nm only due to rapid-exit taxiways. You do the maths and see how many more aicraft can land per hour...

URC

[Goldfish Jack]

aah sounds interesting

Don't know for how long we have been asking for them - but ACSA seem more interested in ripping you off at their shops and in their car parks.

Let me guess they are going to put it on 03L and about where the old 15/33 was!!

Fat lot of use to anyone there maybe the odd Be20 and Jetstream

Intersting to note : how many of the top ACSA management have ever put their bodies in an ATCC and see what goes on there and how we move aircraft. We are often blamed for delays but it has nothing to do with us - useless designs of airports is the answer.

Have a look at Cape Town - they still won't build a taxiway around the apron - a linear one - so the delays for departure are only going to get worse - imagine when an aircraft breaks down pusing back from A1 - all deps for runway 19 will come to a stop.

Oh and do they realise with their extension of the Bravo apron the poor tower ATC wont be able to see anyone at the hold of runway 19 - because aircraft will be obstructing their view? OH and we wont get onto the high speed turn offs. They want to build another runway - give us some high speed turnoffs and they wont have to build it..........

Oh well ACSA dear ACSA - not much difference from Metrorail!!

[Deanw]

Oh well ACSA dear ACSA - not much difference from Metrorail!!

At least Metrorail dropped their plans for a price increase. I'd like to see the ACSA or the CAA do that! :yuk:

[AfricanQueen]

Well said Goldfish! I wonder how long we will have to wait for these revered high-speed turn-offs to be built?

With this new programme of "Runway Occupancy Awareness" you would think they would also expedite the introduction of SIDs for the propjobs with early turnouts, rather than let us burn JetA1 at the holding point waiting for a Caravan to reach 9 miles and then turn out!
:sad:

[UnderRadarControl]

AfricanQueen,

Last time I was at JIA ATC, there was a program which involved the early turnouts of props departing JIA 03L. This was designed in conjuction with and/or feedback from the Kempton Park council wrt noise involving the early turnouts. I have been out of the game in SA for a while, so I don't know what the eventual outcome of the trials was...

URC

[AfricanQueen]

Hi URC

I was under the impression that when they revised the SIDs and STARs a couple of years ago, there would be specific turboprop SIDs and STARs, but no such luck. They have once again promised them to us - supposedly by the end of the year - but I'm not holding my breath!

[UnderRadarControl]

Hi AfricanQueen,

I can tell you this, there is a big revamp coming wrt procedures soon (within the next year - is that still considered soon in Africa??). ATNS has recently bought the Eurocat X radar system, and is almost complete with it's installation. I think that JS App will be the last sector to change over to the new system, and once that is done there will be a change in the operating procs. Along with this new fancy radar system is a sequencing tool called Maestro. This will see the introduction of what we call 'Feeder Fixes' into the TMA at Joeys, instead of everything at HGV. Hopefully this, and arrival slots, will see a great reduction in holds wrt arriving acft. That is the idea, anyway. Along with the new STARS, I imagine there will be new SIDS too. But I honestly do not know what the outcome of the early turnout trials over Kempton park was... But I agree, there should be prop sids, or then a restriction on types of aircraft operating out of JIA at certain times. It isn't easy for the ATC either, when you have a prop spanner in the jet works. hehe.

[SortieIII]

Hi UnderRadarControl......I was recently given an ACSA publication regarding runway occupancy time.

Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive, but I got the impression that it was all the fault of us pilots? It seems that if we would just get our ducks in a row, everything would be a whole lot better. The publication included graphs comparing various aircraft types runway occupancy time, as well as a similar comparison between airports.

I assume you are an ATC, and would like to know what your thoughts on the matter are?

[UnderRadarControl]

Hi SortieIII,

Runway occupancy time is the factor that determines how many aircraft can land on any given runway during a specific period.

There are many factors that affect rwy occupancy time (off the top of my head):

- Types of aircraft using the runway, ie. B747 will take longer to vacate than an A319 for instance;
- The airport infrastructure, ie runway length, type and position of rapid exit taxiways;
- The inbound sequence of aircraft, ie. don't have 30 eta HGV at the same time when they could be spread out a bit; this is where arrival slots fit into the picture along with the sequencing tool;
- ATC proficiency, not wasting extra miles to touchdown; Also, ATC staffing, current limits (i believe) are 45/hour max on js app. They should be having 3 or 4 sectors so that the load is lightened.
- Pilot proficiency, planning on a making a rapid exit taxiway instead of rolling to the end and taking a 90' turn off, ATC had a memo from ALPA saying we may ask the pilot to land deep/short or plan to vacate at a specific taxiway (the land short/deep bit I as an atc will not use, because if he lands too short or overruns, who's ass will be in a sling then???). I will ask the pic to plan to vacate at a specific exit though...
- LVP's throw the whole thing into total chaos at JIA. With the amount of traffic at the airport, I would imagine a ground movement radar would improve the situation a bit...
- Weather, the highveld is notorius for TS in summer, and as an ATC this is hard to work with as the pilot can't always take the assigned headings due to CB's. I don't know what the sequencing tool will do wrt storms.

So, no, you can't blame any one person because of high runway occupancy times (although I think this is the case here, it'll always mostly be the ATC for absolutely anything, and then I guess the pilot). The MAIN culprit here is ACSA, because JIA is an antiquated design for an airport. They have spent millions on the new domestic terminal, but the airside is suffering. The only recent alterations done were to fillet the current turnoffs so the A346 could operate there. Many many older airports had rapid exits, so I don't know what has stalled the program here.... And all the equipment ATNS is buying/has bought, isn't going to help much until the landside is brought in line with the requirements...

They needed rapid exit taxiways a long time ago, and I guess its the $$$ that matter at the end of the day. I sincerely pray the rumour I heard of a rapid exit taxiway being planned was not for 03L was not true (although I have heard it from more than one source...). Last time I checked most of the arrivals in peak times are on 03R.

But bear in mind, I no longer work in SA, and these are only my opinions...

URC.

[126.9]

Just for the record; JIA = Juina, Brazil and there's no way that they'll be getting a high-speed exit. JNB = Johannesburg, South Africa, the airport under discussion. :}

[makeapullup]

don't moan too much about JIA not = JNB or it will quickly be changed from Jo-burg Intl to Sisulu Intl!

[126,7]

I heard about the proposed name change on the radio the other day. Apparently being tabled in parliament soon. Whats wrong with Joburg International ?
Anybody know where Hosea Kutako Intl is? Or how about Polokwane International ?

I suppose you could also confuse KMIA with Miami or Kruger Park...

[126.9]

Hosea Kutako could surely not be far from WDH? :yuk:

[UnderRadarControl]

Well 126.9, seeing as this discussion is under African Aviation and not South American Aviation (duh?), it's JIA = Johannesburg International. Thanks for the constructive input.....

[planecrazi]

Underadarcontrol,
Check your PM,

Thank you.;)

[126.9]

Thanks UnderRadarControl! I guess then that by your logic in the African Forum Lusaka is LIA, Cape Town is CTIA, Nairobi NIA (almost) and I'm sure I don't have to explain AIA, BIA, CIA, DIA..?