So I just took my flying aptitude...

[diamondgeezer]

Evenin' chap and chapettes. I'm applying to the Royal Navy as a prospective aviator, and I've just been to Cranwell for my aptitude tests.

I failed the pilot test, but got a good pass for observer and an average pass for ATC. Now, the problem is this: I wanted pilot, and had expected to achieve the exact opposite reuslts. Thus my carrer plans had all been turned on their heads, and I'm wallowing in a sea of counfusion.

What I was after from you fellows is any real-life experinces in this area, and propaganda from both sides of the fence. See, I know taking the observer route makes sense but I'll need some arm twisting I think.

So that's the long and short of it. Discuss. Oh, and I should probably mention I'm 22, so I can theoretically take the test again...

[chromate]

I think you answered your own question. :)

If you wanted pilot, and there's still a possibility of obtaining that, then take the test again.

[Oggin Aviator]

Certainly take the test again.

I wanted to be a Pilot but said "Yes, I would take Obs if offered" at the AIB and I guess that was it - fate sealed. I have since found out that had I said no they would have offered me my first choice. Anyway that was a long time ago. During BRNC I was a bit p*ssed off about it, especially as I had a PPL and an additional 200 hours on a UAS and there were future pilots in my Dartmouth flight who had never even stepped into an aeroplane looking down at me as I was an Obs. However I now realise this was just immaturity on their part and incidentally only about 5 people out of the initial 32 made it through to the frontline - all of those who sneered at me got chopped (character??).

Now looking back at it I do not regret joining as an Observer - It is a great job. Yes you are not physically flying the aircraft, doing tricky deck landings etc but you are running the mission (unless in a Sea Jet!), working as a team with your pilot to get the aircraft in the right place to complete the task. It can be immensly satisfying (like finding, tracking and schwacking (with FA2's in the a-g role) a spam carrier in the middle of the night - boy did the em spectrum light up once the jets went through the overhead undetected and unannounced! - but I digress). Our rules are slightly different to the RAF (except the Kipper fleet) so we can be aircraft captains, another challenging but satisfying aspect. We get paid the same up to 12 years of flying then they get about 2 quid a day more. The career path is broadly similiar, you dont have to do a tour as F or F2 on a CVS (phew). So it is rewarding and challenging, plus you get to work with some great people and see some great places now and again. I would recommend it, although it is not for everyone. You will need to think hard about the decision to be made. I guess some pilots will give you their take on it, hopefully they realise we are not just commissioned baggage but an integral part of the maritime aviation and ops team with a very important contribution to make.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Oggin

[Arkroyal]

It was a very long time ago now, but I passed for both, and got the pilot gig; probably down to my slow but accurate mental riffmatik.

I don't know to this day what I'd have done if given Obs; but I was gusting 26 with no retry available.

Do it again, and don't take what you don't want.

[TheBeeKeeper]

Not sure how qualified I am to talk about this subject (being RAF Engineer) however, I too applied for Pilot, Nav etc scored high enough for either, but being 27 at the time I was considered as a training risk and there were plenty of younger guys and gals such as your self ready to step into the aircrew shoes.

I think they were also banking on the fact that offered any branch I would take it, and they were correct! Since then I have applied for a branch change four times and been knocked back. Have now resigned myself to private flying (considering current cut backs) in the knowledge that I have done all I can to get GD Branch.

My message is simple, if they are happy to accept you as Obs this year, then should also offer you Obs next year too, should the outocme of the aptitude tests be the same. You are in a position to have another go, I wasn't!

Good Luck

BK

[airborne_artist]

DG

Hang in there, go for the re-take, and in the mean time get yourself experience that will ensure you pass the AIB.

ArkRoyal is worth listening to - he's the only guy I know who has driven a London bus professionally, and then a Sea King.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Not sure if this will help but: I passed both pilot and observer but was offered observer. I asked for my name to be put through the AIB selection again (having been advised that this could result in one of 3 outcomes, 1. Pilot, 2. Observer, 3. Rejection) and got the same offer about 2 weeks later. I then submitted my application to the RAF, raced through their selection procedure and ended up doing 12 happy years in RAF as a pilot.

Good luck whichever way you go, but I would say that time is on your side and its worth having at least one more go at pilot.

[Si Clik]

Diamondgeezer,

You are quite correct about having another go but you will have to wait a year.

Your real problem is that if you resit and pass for pilot you are sure to improve your obs and ATC scores as well. Additionally, your pilot score may still be only a low pass.

Thus when it comes to selection the chaps at the AIB will look at all your marks including the AIB mark to make their decisions and if your Obs scrores are good Obs it is. You cannot deliberately flunk them as the mark is a compendium of all the tests and we currently demand all pilots pass for Obs as well because we need the menatl capacity of FJ.

If you are going to wait a year anyway go to the AIB and see how you get on. If you wait a year, pass the FATs and then fail the AIB that's another year wasted.

As previously stated the most difficult thing is knowing how you are going to fair at the leadership tasks and experience is worth a thousand briefs.

As the aviator specialist in recruiting I am always willing to chat.

PM me.

[diamondgeezer]

Thanking you please all for the advice. It seems clear from all the people I've talked to that accepting the Ob position, for now, seems to be the way forward. But unless I come across some extremely effective Observer progaganda, I'll be retaking that test as soon as I possibly can. In fact, the commander who debriefed me mentioned legends of observer candidates who transfered to fast jets...

So any way, the conclusion is that if I'm offered a place, I'll take it. Thanks again for the advice :)

[eagerbeaver]

Arkroyal

i see you say you were 26, i am 24 nearly 25 and just about to apply (going to AFCO tomorrow) did they treat you the same or a little bit harsher because of your age?

[Arkroyal]

eagerbeaver

My AIB was taken at about the sge of 25 and 3 months, being 25 years 11 months and 2 weeks on joining. A close call.

I don't think there was any discrimination at all. I was treated like anyone else. I remember being in awe of two supremely confident younger men, who I thought would breeze it. Never saw them again, so guess they didn't make it.

The AIB probably found an older person easier to identify with. In fact I remember one question well. The headmaster feller asked what I thought of the 'generation gap'. My reply was that I thought we older men should be given a chance. He nearly choked on his rich tea biscuit in a fit of giggles.

Sorry to hijack your thread, diamondgeezer, for an old fart's remeniscing. And thanks airborne artist for blowing my cover:} My Obs score probably suffered, because my only mental figure crunching at the time worked around subtracting one fare stage from another, and working out the fare:D Are you suggesting, btw, that my Sea King driving was less than professional?;)

[Bigtop]

As a current aviator within the training organisation be cautious about the advice being given here.

At 22 it is highly unlikely you will be allowed to resit your aptitude as historical data shows that significant improvements only occur with the younger age group - typically those of around 17/18. Not sure the exact age cutoff but may be able to help you if you pvt me.

After joining BRNC you will be required to undertake grading and this is likely to undergo a signficant review in the near future - for the better in cases like yourself.

Don't be put off as Oggin has said - as an Obs you will have exactly the same opportunities as a pilot within the RN. Not that many who have gone fast jet though - just the one recently (in last 15 years!) and he has just finished on the OCU and gone frontline.

My advice is get yourself to an airstation and see just what the Obs does - fm SAR to all frontline aspects. Its a varied job, exillarating and rewarding.

[Long_Vodka]

Hello to all

Not really a reply, but a thankyou.

I think i'm pretty much in the same boat as diamondgeezer, as i'm about to sit AIB for selection for pilot, except i am 24, and passed my FAT 3 and a bit years ago at the start of my (long and 'distinguished'?) UAS career.

All of your advice given is well received.

A bit more to think about as the AIB gets nearer! Cheers!

Long_V


P.s. can anyone give me a guideline on what aptitude scores the board may be looking for? thanks.

[Bigtop]

To be safe you will need a score of around 130 plus.
That said they will give due consideration to your performance at AIB and may adjust accordingly.

[Long_Vodka]

Thanks Bigtop,

that reassures me slightly! Have to see how far my 140 will get me then!

Ah well, back to the AIB prep!

[ShyTorque]

Apply again, as everyone else is saying.

I took my own tests over 30 years ago, but from much more recent experience (including a spell recruiting on the other side of the desk), I know the principles haven't changed much.

I was told my scores for Navigator were very high and better than for pilot, but I was quite shocked and said no thanks. Went back later and tried again. No luck, no change, so I set off on a different career path, outside of aviation. 12 months later the RAF wrote to me and offered me a commission as pilot, which I accepted.

I found out many years later that it is often just down to supply and demand and a little luck, right place, right time etc.

Good luck for yourself! :ok:

[supert300]

I have to agree with bigtop, that you should accept observer. It is highly unlikely at the age of 22 you will be invited back to retake pilot aptitude tests. The FAA are currently trying to encourage as many 18 year olds to join as possible, using schemes such as Flying Start and the RN Special Flying Award. Having very recently just completed a short tour at Royal Navy & Royal Marines Careers recuiting Officers I have a pretty good idea what AIB are looking for, I am also a RN Pilot.

To be in with a reallistic chance of selection at AIB for Pilot you need a minimum of 140 points for pilot bearing in mind the pass mark is 112. You also must also get good passes in the Observer and ATC aptitude test before you will even be considered for AIB. You must then attend AIB and to be in with a reasonable chance of selection you must get around 585 bearing mind the pass mark is 500! Having passed all this you must also pass the aircrew medical. The FAA can afford to be very fussy with pilot selection at the moment because nearly everybody who walks through the door of an AFCO wants to be a pilot. They use all these as tools to filter be people out and get the people with best chance of passing flying training.

Hope this of use. Any questions feel free to PM me.

Reagards,

Supert300