Tracking Stolen Vehicles

[WLM]

We operate an R44 Raven in a country where the favorite past time of scum bags is to steal vehicles. So we though of starting up a satellite tracking system using our helo for tracking and locating purposes. Any info on your experience and expertise in the subject would be greatly appreciated ie cost, system etc.
Regards
WLM :ok:

[BlenderPilot]

We rent helicopters all the time to two companies who track stolen trucks and cars, (Intellitrack and LoJack, www.lojack.com) they fly 2 o 3 times a week since our city has 28 million people living here, there are about 80 automobiles stolen everyday, and several trucks along with merchandise, the best way to find them is using the "lojack" sistem, just try to avoid tailing them to close or you can get shot at, and also if you want to catch the whole bunch of bad guys wait until the vehicle is static an have the police arrive at the warehouse or else they will abandon the vehicle and flee on foot.

It's fun and exciting, but its easy to forget the flying while chasing bad guys so be careful.

[WLM]

Thank you BP will look at the website to get some more info.
WLM

[discobeast]

Add you post to the African forum. South Africa has got a tracking service called Netstar or Tracker using R44s.

[WLM]

Thanks Discobeat just done it
WLM

[B Sousa]

Hello Discobeast.Howzit..................

WLM. Without getting into detail I can get you a contact at Tracker in SA www.tracker.co.za I worked with those folks in another life. Im betting just contacting them cold may not get a good response.
If you have the proper credentials another good Organization to contact will be www.iaati.org
And of course the best one for those involved is www.alea.org

[ANVAK]

The biggest for operating helicopters in the recovery role in SA is Netstar - look at their website at www.netstar.co.za

[2Sticks]

Here in the UK you wouldn't need a heli to do the tracking. There are a number of anti-theft devices that use GPS coupled with the cellular phone network which can be configured to display the position of a vehicle on your PC screen (you can then relay this to the law enforcement agencies). Alternatively, there are systems that will inform the law for you. Some systems have options to allow you to speak to the occupants, or switch off the ignition system and disable the car remotely when the vehicle is at a standstill. More worryingly (for some) is the ability of some systems to listen to any sounds being made in the vehicle, while knowing the location of the vehicle ;)

2Sticks

[WLM]

Thank you for all the replies and suggestions. I am following every avenues. As far as the non heli option, it would not work too well here due to a poor cellular coverage in 1/2 of the country. We already own the helo, so with a good satellite system, could may be offer an adequate service to Joe Bloke.
Anyway I'll keep pursuing the matter.
Regards
WLM ;)

[Thomas coupling]

2sticks: what are you on? No such system is in current use??
Perhaps you are talking about one of those X box games you've got??? All the Uk has at present, is the well tried and tested Lojac system in police cars and police helos. The helo gives better range, thats all.
No-one 'rings' the feds up and tells them they've got a stolen car on their PC??? No-one uses 'bugs' in the car to listen to the occupants, or slow the car down.
Granted there is the technology to instal these systems and there are test vehicles out there doing this (we do it), but they are a few years off being normally employed, yet due to legal and human rights reasons!
N Union is testing a box which can be fitted to monitor your driving habits (speed/distance etc) which IF ACCEPTED by the public, will be used to predict risk factors and hence premiums of that driver.
The police are quietly using GPS to talk to black boxes fitted to cars to do roughly the same together with engine management control, but this is fraught with health and safety/legal wranglings.
Only the secret service and batman use it every day!!!!:suspect:

[pilotwolf]

TC.. that was my intital thought too but try ebay...

Something like this? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=75327&item=7920448352&rd=1)

or this? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=324&item=5517939286&rd=1)

Be interesting to know if they actually work....

PW

[J.A.F.O.]

Looks like Q has been made redundant and 007 has got himself a PayPal account.

And I thought Lojack worked well.

[John Eacott]

TC,

We have the system that you refer to here in Australia, I have it fitted to one of my cars. "Holden Assist", otherwise known as Telematics System, which tracks via GPS and GSM phone: it can immobilise a running engine (slowly, not a sudden cut out), unlock the doors, and interrogate the occupants of a car via the phone. The latter is to verify (via password) that the car hasn't been nicked; I also get occasional calls to let me know when the battery is getting low ;)

A well publicised car theft in Melbourne had everything work to order after a thief took the owner's keys and made off with the car. Owner called in the theft to Holden & Police, the location was established and passed to the cops. The car was found and chased through town, then immobilised. Only snag, no one told the coppers that they could have the car unlocked remotely, so they took the trusty batons out, and belted in the car windows to gain access!

I believe the same set up is available in the USA.

[WLM]

Hi John
How much is the system costing you and is it a franchise available in other countries?
Cheers
WLM

[John Eacott]

WLM,

The Telematics is standard in my car: first 3 years operation is included, so I haven't checked what the annual charge is. Since the insurance premium for my current model is half that for the previous car (same make & model) without Telematics, I guess it has to be worthwhile ;)

Along with DNA DataDots throughout the paint & underbody, current high tech security for the ignition system & a limited production run, the car is not too attractive to thieves, either for rebuild or "joy riding" :ok:

Link to manufacturer & model here (http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vy2/default.htm) , and Holden Assist here. (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/ownerinfo/holdenassist/holdenassist.jsp)

[Thomas coupling]

Well, I'm eating my hat as I speak!!!
Is there anyone out there who has this system working in the UK???
I'm making enquiries as I type.......

thanks

[2Sticks]

TC

Damn - you started eating your hat before I could get my reply off to you!!:D

In the UK, I have had the i-Mob system demonstrated to me. It is fully programmable and I promise it can do all the things I said it could. Check out www.i-mob.co.uk.

Some of this type of functionality seems also to be being built in to other systems e.g. SmartNav which is a GPS navigation system produced by the TrafficMaster bunch. This particular GPS is 'smart' in that to program a route, you press a button on the dash and you get connected to a live operator in a control centre who then transmits the route to your required destination to the smartnav unit in your car. It's particularly 'smart' since if it detects a build-up of traffic ahead (using the TrafficMaster technology) it will advise you and ask whether you want it to provide you with a route to miss the hold up. I believe that if your car is stolen, the SmartNav control centre can detect the position of your car via its GPS and communicate with it through the mobile phone SIM card that's built in to the unit (incidentally, I believe this is also how the i-Mob device communicates).

The i-Mob device is totally hidden and the SmartNav may only be a button on the dash board and hidden speaker (although one can opt for an optional screen display I believe).

I also found this report on the web which, while incomplete and marked 'sample', has quite a bit of information on other systems which may have the same features as the ones I have personal experience of: http://www.spirasolutions.co.uk/Secured_By_Design/assets/1340_Sample_of_tracking_report.pdf.

Incidentally TC, I don't have an X-Box - what's yours like?
:ok:

2Sticks

[Thomas coupling]

2sticks: Hats off to you, I bow to your wisdom having done some research this end too. Even the police are a little behind with this technology.:eek:
I have learned that should you 'immobilise' the vehicle yourself and not thru the contact centre or without the approval of the police, then you stand in danger of being sued for damages if the vehicle (as a consequence of it effectively being "out of your control" at the time of immobilisation) causes damage to persons or property. Insurance companies also may invalidate your claim.

Early days, but definitely the way to go.........now where's your hat :O

[Martin1234]

http://www.hitech.com.sg/gsm/sguard.html

It's just a matter of time till the thieves are using a GSM blocker or similar. How does the system work which helicopters are used to track? Are you able to cancel that signal out or will it just make it even more easy to find the vehicle?

[Cyclic Hotline]

You can always chase other things as well!

Pedalo sparks helicopter chase

West Yorkshire Police has defended its use of a police helicopter to chase two boys in a pedalo.
The helicopter was scrambled after the boys were seen taking the hire pedalo out on the water after closing time at Pugneys Country Park, Wakefield.

A police spokeswoman said it was impossible to put an actual figure on the cost of using the helicopter.

"The use of the helicopter is not governed by the seriousness of the incident," she said.

"It is judged on whether or not it can help bring an operation to a successful conclusion."

The two boys were later arrested after they beached the pedalo and ran away across fields.

[heloplt1]

I have experience tracking Lojack equipped vehicles from a car with a receiver and a helo with a receiver. The main problem with the vehicle receiver is the fact that you have to be relatively close to get the signal. Once you have the signal it is not difficult to track and locate the transmitting vehicle. The helo has a much greater range than a vehicle equipped receiver. It is also very easy to track down a car from the helo. I have also got experience tracking a vehicle with a cell transmitter giving GPS info. The only problem that I have encountered with a GPS system is lag time. I don't know for a fact that it is true, but the dispatcher advised that the "Onstar" people told her that the location is only updated every thirty seconds. Add that to the time that it takes for the GPS dispatcher to tell the Police dispatcher/call taker and then get it forwarded to the actual dispatcher who puts it out over the air to the street units and it adds up to a lot of ground between where the car was when the coordinates were given and where it actually is at that second. It is pretty frustrating being one step behind the car (this should be less of a problem in a rural area, but makes it hard in an urban area).
The GPS system is much better (IMHO) for the vehicle owner; the car is disabled, the badguy(s) get out, and the police recover the car intact. The Lojack type systems are better for the police in that they have a very good chance of getting behind the car with the badguy(s) still inside. The downside for the owner is the likelihood that if the police don't immediately box in the car there is inevitably a vehicle pursuit and the likelihood of recovering the vehicle with no damage once that starts is slim. But for the police there is a high probability of capturing the badguy(s).
Sorry for the rambling, just some thoughts from seeing both types in action. There most likely are many other systems out there that I have no experience with, and if there is a gps system out there that eliminates the middle man (calling to dispatch, having to pass on the info through another to the Officers on the street) that would be the bomb :8

[Helinut]

I heard a rumour that the tracker/lojack system may be dumped for the GPS/phone system - not confirmed.

Tracker/Lojack and helicopters make a great combination. As Helopolt1 says thay allow police to catch the thief. Not immediately of value to the specific car owner, but of course, if the thief is in choky he cannot be stealing cars.

GPS seems to me to be good (except it tends to take helos out of the loop). Hp1 has highlighted one problem with GPS: the lag in information getting to the troops on the ground/in the air. The other disadvantage seems to me to be the ease with which GPS information can be blocked. This means that the professional thief, for whom this is a business, can hide a car and move it around, if he can be bothered to get organised. It is probably better not to be too explicit in case someone on the site is not who they say they are.

Logically, the best system combines the two - they do exist but are more expensive (of course)!!

[danfulton]

I've got a Vehicle Tracking system from http://www.directions.ltd.uk, installed in the car with a sim card, can send me a text message if my car moves after setting it.

Can call it from my pc at any time, and get the location, and location history.

A very good system which works well.

[WLM]

Hi danfulton
Your link does not seem to work...is the website address correct?
Cheers
WLM

[The Nr Fairy]

Try missing out the comma :

http://www.directions.ltd.uk