Liverpool John Lennon Airport - What A Nightmare

[seafuryfan]

I have used LJL about a dozen times from May to September this year. I think the layout and operation of the new passenger terminal is more a money making exercise rather than what it should be, that is a place which efficiently process passengers onto aircraft while attempting to make it a pleasurable experience at the same time. In addition, some of the passenger handling procedures need updating. As you'll see, my comments below can be read across to other airports

Starting at check-in. There should be e-ticketing as standard for all flights. Of course, hold baggage must be manually processed but this bollocks about asking every pasenger 'the questions' is ridiculous. They should be part of the terms and conditions of baggage acceptance - what's someone going to say, "Yes someone could have interfered with it"?? what we have now are reams of closed desks, and the desk for your flight proceeding at a snails place. Cut the investment in the shiny shops and get some decent check-in procedures sorted!

Next, the 'window-shopping walk along' after check-in. Up the stairs and round you go, forced to go on the Mother of All Treks to your departure gate. It's not the physical distance that's the problem, rather that the passenger walk is made 3 times longer than it needs to be, so we all dutifully parade past WH Smith, CD's R US, Naff Jewellery etc. I understand that the airport is a business and that the stores are in it to make money and pay their rent, but this is pure expoitation. Where are the water fountains? That's right, there are none, you have to BYO or buy £1.00 bottles of water - great on a hot day.

So the unwitting traveller then arrives at the main concourse. (Burger King, Pub, Eatery etc) Flight information is provided by a one screen, dwarfed by the eateries all around it. The information on it is frequently not up to date, but when I've asked about this, Easy-Jet say it dosn't work properly. Speaker announcements for late passengers (more on that in a minute) are made here, but are drowned out by pop music.

If you're not used to the layour of LJL it is easy to assume that you are in fact in the 'passengers only' waiting area (after all, how many non-passengers want to go to LJL for a burger??), not helped by the fact that the security walk-through area is accessed right at the end through a small flight of stairs or a small escalator. So once you're asked on the screen to procees to Gate X you go down the stairs to find.....

.....a queue for the one security gate open which is sometimes long enough to cause a bottleneck at the bottom of the escalator - a terrible and dangerous situation, especially for old people. When I last went through there were passengers in a real panic, having realised that the queue would take about half an hour to be processed.

Why are there only two security lines provided, with frequently only one open at busy times? The subsequent delay, exaggerated by absolutely no airport information PEOPLE (not an information BOARD) anywhere to deal with problems, means that people are continually late for boarding, even if they arrived an hour and a half before take-off.

Pity the poor passengers who have been held up who are then barked up by the tannoy "Would Mr X Mrs B and Miss A proceed IMMEDIATELY to Gate 9 where your flight is now departing". Yes, they would - if they allowed 3 hours from check-in to boarding!!IT'S USUALLY NOT THEIR FAULT! Just a badly planned terminal.

I'm sorry, but the place sucks. It's focused on taking your money, sod what we have to go through to get on the jet. If only the airport authority realised that an efficient, well managed processing facility would result in fewer late, fed-up passengers, they would do something about it. I complained to the duty manager about all the above, she listened attentively and was polite, but it came down to the way the place had been designed and the fact that it was a commercial concern.

[phoenix son]

There's a nice shiny "proper" airport just down the motorway...Actually, on second thoughts, you've pretty much summed this place up as well!


:E :E :E

PHX

[Evening Star]

Know more about Speke Hall than LJL, but this caught my eye:

but this bollocks about asking every pasenger 'the questions' is ridiculous. They should be part of the terms and conditions of baggage acceptance - what's someone going to say, "Yes someone could have interfered with it"??

Except who reads the terms and conditions? Well, maybe those who take enough interest to hang around PPRuNe, and then most of the time in a desultory sort of way. Average punter, especially the knuckle dragging end of the market? Get real. The questions are an essential part of life, and one day might just prompt a "well, actually..." type response. Just chill out and view the questions as sort of checklist type item.

[seafuryfan]

Evening Star, good point - and on reflection, I am going to 'get real' over it. I guess I was in Mr Angry mode on that one. One point down, 20 to go! ;)

[Globaliser]

seafuryfan: You could be describing just about any airport anywhere these days. For example, how many of them now route you through security immediately into the middle of the duty-free shop? Not just near the entrance, but smack bang inside the shop so you have no alternative?

Also, e-ticketing is an airline thing, too - but 100% e-ticketing is coming, it just takes time for everyone to get their act together.

[WHBM]

I did once ask a particularly sensible desk agent as I was checking in what actually happens if people say "no" to any of the security questions. She described the procedure, which involved sending for security, and going through all your baggage. The replies to my supplemental questions of "wouldn' t you probably miss your plane?" was "yes", and to "and would you get a refund then?" was "no".

So whatever is the point ?

[eal401]

So whatever is the point ?
Given the programme on the BBC last night, getting the ticks on the sheet is the point. Mind you, they still don't have to ask the questions!

[Pax-man]

I might be biased, but I don't find Liverpool JLA tiresome at all...

The new check-in hall is bright, airy and well-designed. The walk to the gates is very short by comparison to many UK airports, and it does the job just fine.

Landed into Manchester last night, just after midnight. Waited ten minutes for steps to arrive at the aircraft, then walked for what seemed like for ever to reach the baggage carousel. Then waited nearly an hour for the bags (which is far from unusual there). I find flying from Manchester a bit of a ball-ache these days, particularly to/from T1.

Personally, I much prefer the smaller airports like JLA, where things tend to move quicker (and yer bags don't take forever!). Sounds like the original rant was the result of a bad day, if you ask me.

[Danny_R]

seafuryfan,

I would advise you write to the airport and inform their MD Neil Packey of your dislike of the way the airport is set-out and other details such as the flight information screen that doesn't work properly.

Give them your suggestions, people have often done this and LPL management have made the improvements that the passenger suggested.

If people don't tell the airport about what they like/dislike, then how are the airport supposed to know?

Write to them, you may just get a surprise!

Regards,

Dan

[seafuryfan]

Danny - just checking in having being away. Thanks for the suggestion, I really said my piece to the Manager but I appreciate the contact for higher management.

I suppose I'm just frustrated in that it appears that LJL seems to have been deliberately designed first to make money with pax coming second.

Thanks for the all the other contris on this. Pax-man, what can I say? Only that I'm glad reading your reply that I do the absolute minimum flying by civ-air ;)

[takenthe5thamendment]

I have to agree with Pax-man, LPL is a great airport.........

but, I'm also not keen on the security area at the bottom of the stairs. It is too small.

Never mind, I shall endeavour to persevere again next week! ;)

[jonathang]

seafuryfan : Of course, hold baggage must be manually processed but this bollocks about asking every pasenger 'the questions' is ridiculous. They should be part of the terms and conditions of baggage acceptance - what's someone going to say, "Yes someone could have interfered with it"??

Why is it ridiculous? Besides the fact it is a mandatory procedure enforced by the Department for Transport at all UK Airports.

There was one particular incident where a female was dating a terrorist.

The terrorist took her out for a meal before her flight from LHR.

Asked her to take a parcel onboard the aircraft.

The parcel was discovered at check-in when she answered the question.
The parcel was a bomb.

Has anyone given you anything to take on-board?

Have you left your bags unattended?

The questions are designed to catch the unsuspecting person being used.

The exact details of the incident and dates I forget, but that was an actual incident. I think that justifies the questions.

Do you have any sharp objects in your hand luggage?

This one speeds up the security process dramatically.

Ask any check-in agent they will all have caught passengers with Sharp objects.

[Globaliser]

Yes, it was an actual incident. The terrrorist's name, IIRC, was Hindawi. And the girlfriend was pregnant by him at the time.

But I think that it was actually an LY flight, and the bomb was discovered at LY's gate check - not at check-in or at security. Grateful for corrections if I'm wrong about that.seafuryfan : Of course, hold baggage must be manually processed but this bollocks about asking every pasenger 'the questions' is ridiculous. They should be part of the terms and conditions of baggage acceptance - what's someone going to say, "Yes someone could have interfered with it"??Next time you get asked, watch the check-in agent carefully as you answer. The check-in agent will be watching you carefully. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. If they think you're lying, the bag will get the treatment too.

[jonathang]

Thanks for clarifying the incident Globaliser.

Even though the actual catch was not at check-in.

The Security questions are now designed to prevent this incident happening again.

Always amazed me how passengers reacted when you treated unmarried partners as individuals from a check-in point of view.

[knobbygb]

You could be describing just about any airport anywhere these days

Well, yes, but LPL does seem to be even worse than some. It's not the number of shops (not really THAT many) or the prices (same high prices as everywhere) - it's just so obvious that you are being deliberatley re-routed as you have to go upstairs to the shops, walk around a kind of horseshoe shaped area and then back downstairs again. Pretty blatant and annoying I found. Both check-in and departures seem to be actually on the ground floor with no less than 4 escalators to traverse to get there.

Here's a tip though - at the top of the first escalator, there's an annonymous looking door on the right with no notices on it - just pop through it (accidentally) and you're right in the security area and save the long walk and dangerous escalator. This is the route they use for wheelchairs to save all that hassle of up and down again. Thing is though, the poor disabled passenger doesn't get chance to shop even if they actually want to.

Oh, and have they still got that extremley annoying automatic grand piano in the lounge? I think some kid seriously need to accidentally spill it's coke in the electrics of the bl00dy thing!

[ChrisVJ]

Personally I think the same about the new terminal at LHR. There were long line ups for the security check so we asked an airport employee about getting food the other side. "Oh yes, there are much better places the other side." so we went through. What a major rip off. Lousy, criminally expensive food served in places that would not get a customer unless you were desperate and not enough seating surrounded by a conspicouous attempt to seperate a chap from his money for as little value as possible.

Makes eating in the original Nissen hut on the airport look like the golden age of gracious dining. (Yes, I was there.)

[Holdposition]

seafuryfan:


JLA, fully agree: second rate airport, second rate service (thats if you get any) third rate place.......... only a few months ago when a poor guy got murdered there...why....because he dare try stop some yob from driving off on his car!!!! how dare he!!! ask his widow what she thinks about the place.

[jonathang]

JLA, fully agree: second rate airport, second rate service (thats if you get any) third rate place.......... only a few months ago when a poor guy got murdered there...why....because he dare try stop some yob from driving off on his car!!!! how dare he!!! ask his widow what she thinks about the place.


Why would that incident have anything to do with the fact it happened at an Airport?

Could have happened at a Cinema, Petrol Station, Hospital etc.

Fail to see a valid connection to why LPL is a terrible airport because of that incident.

[Pax-man]

Congratulations on a totally brainless post, holdposition. Unbelieveably stupid.

[Tony Flynn]

Just flown back from T5 at Chicago O'hare - gimme shops and eateries in a UK airport anytime, there's next to sod all there

[Holdposition]

Jonathang:

You are of course 100% correct in that this crime could have happened elsewhere, however, the crime figures for the particular borough of LPL are 37% above the N/A. My company has just completed a 2-month feasibility study into the borough and the above figures as well as a number of other disturbing facts came too light. Therefore, the chances of crime at LPL are somewhat greater then in other areas.
Needless to say we have not taken up our option!

Pax-man:

The only thing that surprises me about your negative input is that you didn’t use CAPITALS.

[danfulton]

Month Offences per 1000 population

Manchester
Apr-Jun 2002 61.9
Jul-Sep 2002 56.4
Oct-Dec 2002 61.0
Jan-Mar 2003 60.7


Liverpool
Apr-Jun 2002 43.7
Jul-Sep 2002 41.7
Oct-Dec 2002 44.4
Jan-Mar 2003 39.4


From http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk

Never going to Manchester again (which is a shame because I work in Manchester) but it does appear to have a significantly higher crime rate than Liverpool !

Maybe your company should employ a professional firm who can read statistics !

By the way - which borough of Liverpool?

[air pig]

As a city Liverpool is far safer than Manchester, the crime stats bear this out. LPLs disadvantage is that it literally walking distance from the local community, and some of the nastiest scr****s in creation unlike MCR.

Merseyside Police have a far better record in crime detection and arrest than Greater Manchester, and as a previous post stated that the murder of the gentlemean from Lancs cold have happened ANYWHERE !!! Not just in Liverpool.

Merseyside Police did have the murders in custody very quickly, I suspect that a few doors where opened in a less than gentlemanly fashion to apprehend the scum.

Do not look at all the people in the City in the same way, same as you will find in any city town or village in the UK.

Air pig:E