Southampton-expansion/new routes

[jfriday]

Are there any new carriers looking at sou? Perhaps the smaller low cost airlines,maybe BMi Baby or jet2? I know there is an isuue of stand space with larger aircraft.

Are flybe starting any new routes this year?How are there loads from sou?There routes semm to constantly change.

Why does sou have such a small amount of charter traffic, i would have thought there would be demand. Other small airports such as exeter have much larger amounts

Finally, does BAA have any plans for the terminal, such as larger check-in and departure areas as i hear it gets very busy at peak times. Maybe more stands for larger aircraft?

[kirstys_little_man]

Southampton has a relatively shortish runway which rules out several of the longer distance charter destinations.

As for stand space, with the M27 to the south of the field, the railway to the north & west of the field, there really isn't space in which to add extra stands.

I did here that BAA had asked the resident light aircraft to vacate Southampton so that they had more room to park visiting executive jets & to help provide more ramp space for the scheduled flights.

KLM

[Flightmapping]

JFriday,

Flybe are starting GLA (3rd Sept) and NCL & MAN (31st Oct) + bringing back Geneva & Chambery for the ski season.

BOH seems to take a fair amount of the charter traffic from the Solent region - I would guess that as KLM says, space, runway length & proximity to London are all constraints at SOU.

And I forgot to mention Air Berlin to Paderborn

[aeftutor]

FlyBE have just started GLA & will operate MAN & NCL from November onwards. They do seem to operate one set of routes for the summer & a different set for the winter. THe odd one this time round is that they have axed the PRG route for the winter!
There are rumours flying about that they are looking into AMS & CDG.

Air Berlin starts Paderborn services on 2nd Nov.

There is plenty demand for the charter side of things but unfortunately, with the length of the runway, lack of stands & non 24hr ops their are just too many negative factors. Although there are 8 charter flights a week currently operating from SOU.

[SOU-Bloke]

In terms of routes, there isn't much rumour about down here. FlyBE are always looking at routes and loads, so are always possibilities for a change or a new route. Air Berlin have already said they'd be interested in operating more routes if the PAD service picks up, but as the opening post says, check in and departure lounge is getting congested at peak times.

However, the Departure Lounge is being enlarged the end of this year, and once completed, there are plans to work on the check in area too. The handling contract is currently up for tender too though, so the winner of that will have a say in how things progress once they take over in January. Aviance are widely believed to be on the way out, with Menzies, Servisair, Swissport and others amongst those who've put in a tender.

[jfriday]

Does anybody know what possessed Air Berlin to start flying sou-Paderborn? What chance do they have of filling all their seats flying from a small regional airport to somewhere nobody has ever heard of? Would it not have been a better idea to begin services to other, better known German cities?

[c.r.m what is it]

jfriday

I think Air Berlin, are going to be hoping that they will pick up passengers travelling between major British army bases, as i belive there is one near paderborn and alot in the south of england.

Friends and families will always be flying between the two on visits.

[SOU-Bloke]

Exactly right c.r.m.w.i.i... There has been some significant demand for a route of this type for awhile, and there is a surprising amount of Leisure travel to Paderborn too. The service is only 3 a week (Tues, Thurs, Sat) to begin with, so they're not exactly flooding the route with seats to begin with.

Believe it or not jfriday, airlines do tend to research their potential routes and passenger demand! :)

[Trislander]

There's loads of space for a/c stands over the far side of the field. I expect they will be checking for planning permission as we speak and remote stands will be appearing over there in due course. If not then SOU will never expand far beyond it's current limits and they'll have to turn away business.

BAA were stupid to let that land go to Royal Mail and those other industrial units. No long term planning is SOU management's problem. They seem to be a great team for short-term improvements, but little else!

The short-stay car park is a joke- all the spaces were narrowed a few months ago to gain approx 30-40 more spaces, some of which are now near-impossible (or totally impossible, in some cases) to park in!

Also if they'd put an extra floor in that new admin building then they could have used it as a boarding gates annex with the cafe or something in there and a corridor to link to departures to further relieve congestion.

:}

[SOU-Bloke]

>There's loads of space for a/c stands over the far side of the
>field. I expect they will be checking for planning permission as
>we speak and remote stands will be appearing over there in
>due course. If not then SOU will never expand far beyond it's
>current limits and they'll have to turn away business.

It's a possibility, however the infrastructure required is pretty significant, in terms of access to the stands and also the foundations for any extra stands... to go to any significant weight of aircraft would require serious strengthening.

One possibility is to move Flying Schools/Signature to the Eastern side and develop more stands up from the tower, but it's all longer term and also very expensive.

>BAA were stupid to let that land go to Royal Mail and those
>other industrial units. No long term planning is SOU
>management's problem. They seem to be a great team for short-
>term improvements, but little else!

I'd certainly agree where the Royal Mail building is, but the problem has been previous Managing Directors. Under the previous MD, the airport stood still and to be blunt, he was crap. The current MD has turned the airport around, attracted the new routes, and also made a case for SOU with BAA plc for more investment... had he been here sooner, I have no doubt SOU would be growing even more.

>The short-stay car park is a joke- all the spaces were narrowed
>a few months ago to gain approx 30-40 more spaces, some of
>which are now near-impossible (or totally impossible, in some
>cases) to park in!

Actually, the spaces now match the standard UK car park size. I don't have any problem with them and I drive a moderately sized car (Mondeo)!

>Also if they'd put an extra floor in that new admin building then
>they could have used it as a boarding gates annex with the cafe
>or something in there and a corridor to link to departures to
>further relieve congestion.

A departure lounge extension is on it's way, but to be honest that is the least of the problems. Parking, for both a/c and cars, and the check in area are the major pinch points.

The airport does now own the area of land in the north east corner where the SAM VOR sits, and that could be used for a/c parking, but there is a long way to go with planners etc, before that reaches fruition. The management here are moving forward, and do now have long term plans, but were given a handicap to start with thanks to the previous management.

[niknak]

What suprises me, and I admit to beingan outsider to the area, is why the BAA don't use their extensive clout, and persuade both Ford and the Post Office that they could relocate elsewhere in the near vicinity.

The reallity is that the future of any Ford plant, is only viable from year to year, and anyone who thinks they are a permanant fixture should only look at Vauxhall at Luton.
The Post Office are equally unstable, and could either move or close their Southampton operation with no further thought.

Yes it would cost them money, but it's nothing that the BAA haven't done before elsewhere, and the ultimate gain would see Southampton having increased space, which hopefully would accomodate both a runway extension and increased parking area on the airport itself.
I accept that at any BAA airport, commercial activities are always going to overide G/A, but if the above proposals were feasable, perhaps everyone could be accomodated.

[smallpilot]

niknak - you obviously know nothing about the automotive world. Thats before we get into a debate about how many jobs Ford supports at Southampton (prob as many as the airport when you consider sub-contractors, suppliers etc). Decisions are not made by firms like Ford on a year-to-year basis as you suggest. Have you any idea what the lead-in time is from model planning to production? It's more like 3-4 years! The reality is that by the time things like the Vauxhall closure at Luton are announced, that was decided 2 years before it was publicised and its a further 12-18 months before production runs down. So I would say is a bit more long-term than some airlines who seem to add then pull-off routes with alarming regularity.

[SOU-Bloke]

smallpilot has a very good point, but also no runway extension could take place to the south because the 02 threshold is already too close to the hill to the south for comfort and obstacle clearance is already an issue. Plus, a runway extension would be prevented by local council agreements, and also the cost of any expansion in that direction would be hugely prohibitive with the M27 in the way.

The Post Office land would be ideal but there are more issues than simply waiting for or assisting the Post Office to move on. Land ownership and the politics behind it have long been an issue at SOU, with Gazeley Properties and BAA not seeing eye-to-eye over a number of things, not least the proposed Chickenhall Road to the north of the runway. Gazeley still own chunks of land around the airport, and still own the Post Office property I believe.

Bottom line with all this is that of cost vs projected return on investment. For starters, unless it happens as a result of other commercial development, GA will not be better provided for through any capital investment. It simply would not give value for money. Development of the airport for further scheduled/charter growth is not required just yet, while demand has peaked for now and there is still capacity at certain times of the day. As I mentioned above, Check in and parking are the main issues at present.

There could be further development in the medium/long term but right now, Southampton is working pretty well, doing what it does best... being an effective regional airport. It will never be able to grow much in physical size, but if it makes best use of what it has got, then it can still grow in terms of pax numbers for awhile yet.

[liquid sunshine]

SOU-Bloke,

From the tone of your posts could it be that you are actually in the employment of BAA Southampton?

Whilst you provide valid arguments on the possible development projects discussed is it not the case that SOU is effectively trying to punch above its weight in terms of infrastrucutre.

"Development of the airport for further scheduled/charter growth is not required just yet" - Having been at SOU on numerous occasions I have seen how tight the parking is when "bigger" aircraft are visiting, parked in between stands etc, It will be interesting to see how BAA Southampton will cope with the introduction of bigger a/c, probably sooner rather than later. Flybe are looking into replacement of the Bae 146 and could it be that Easyjet or similar are not in SOU because their operational demands cannot be met at SOU.

Is there not a danger of SOU being victims of their own success as a result ofa failure to develop the airfield?

:confused:

[SOU-Bloke]

liquid sunshine,

You last point is a fair one but personally I believe that, far from 'trying to punch above its weight', the airport is simply maximising the use of what it has.

If there is one thing SOU is good at, it is in recognising what it is NOT, and focusing on what it is good at. As a result, SOU has had to attract the right carriers and integrate them into the schedule accordingly, and not aim too high.

Many people do not understand the restrictions that SOU operates under. Local flying regulations, restrictions on runway expansion (through SRG and local agreement), physical airport size constraints, terminal passenger capacity, check in area, car parking etc, and more, ALL have an impact on what can and can't be accomodated at the airport.

I will admit that there is no doubt that SOU has been held back in years gone by, and that a 'failure to develop the airfield' is now regretted to some extent. But we cannot change what happened in the past, only look to the future, and what possibilities lie ahead, and that means working with what we've got, and appreciating what is possible and what isn't.

And yes, I do work at SOU. :ok:

[jfriday]

Am i right in saying that check-in facilities leave something to be desired at sou? I have heard that they are often overwhelmed at peak times. Is there anything planned to improve this such as more check-in desks as i believe that currently there are very few.

[Powerjet1]

Aren't BAA about to embark on a major redevelopment ot the terminal in the next few months?. Surely that would include a few more check-in desks!!.

I know when Mrs P & I checked in for a flight to GCI a couple of weeks ago, we were literally queueing out of the door. Admittedly, the doors are only a matter of a few yards from the check-in desks

[loveJet]

British Airways Citi-Express will discontinue its Southampton to Brussels route from December 24th 2004. They had a code-share with SNBrussels, but doubt whether they will take over at least in the short term. The route was only scrapping 20,000 pax per year, adn fares were ridiculously high if booked at the last minute.

Bring on Bournemouth-Brussels with Virign Express or better still Ryanair! They want to join the dots, although I don't think this is on their high priority to-do list.

any comments?

Jet

[PorcoRosso]

Any info about this route, which is advertised on the Flybe website ?
I am living in Cherbourg, and nobody at the airport admin is aware of this route or timetable .
Since the P&O ferry line was recently closed here, it's highly possible to put an air carrier on this same route (much faster ! )

[jfriday]

I can't see why flybe doesn't introduce some more routes to spain from SOU, surely routes to barcelona, madrid or Palma would make money for them. They are pretty much staple routes for LCCs from other airports.