London-Perth (Australia) you wags!!

[DtyCln]

Is it possible to fly London-Perth (OZ) non-stop both ways in either the A340-500 or the new long range B777?

As someone who travels to OZ a lot I would rather miss out the delights of the middle or far east and arrive direct into civilisation, well, as much as Western OZ is civilisation, then fly direct to any Australian city or indeed NZ. I realise via LAX is also an option but it takes too long and screw TSA/US immigration processes!

Does anyone think BA or QF will try this in the future? Is the UK-OZ run busy enough to sustain direct flights without the middle/far east connecting traffic?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Globaliser]

From the POV of a user, not an industry insider: Yes, the UK-Oz run is busy enough to sustain some non-stops. But alas, not to PER. If there were an aircraft that could comfortably do LHR-SYD nonstop I think there would be a market for the service.

[surely not]

If there was an aircraft that could do it profitably I'm sure the service would be up and running already.

[no, no, no]

how long would it take though? near 20 hours or something???? would that make it the longest route ever?????

If I was flying then unfortunately I would not want to go on that service. Being stuck on an aircraft for that long can't be healthy... even a couple of hours in BKK or something to sort yourself out is a plus - let alone a stop over..........

also, how many people who go to Oz do it as part of a round the world journey??? If so then they wouldn't use a direct....

[Zones]

See the following useful website that some other helpful ppruner pointed out the other day:

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=LHR-SIN-SYD%0D%0ALHR-PER-SYD%0D%0ALHR-HKG-SYD%0D%0ALHR-SYD%0D%0A&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=mi&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=ortho&MAP-CENTER=CCU&ETOPS=120

According to it, great circle distances are as follows:

1/ LHR-SIN-SYD 10672mi
2/ LHR-HKG-SYD 10575mi
3/ LHR-PER-SYD 11050mi (LHR-PER 9009mi)
4/ LHR-SYD 10573mi

1/ has been the historical preferred route although BKK also popular and distance about same.

2/ will be VS routing, and with new routings across Russia will be close to Great Circle distance

3/ is significantly longer

Worth noting that SIN-LAX is aprox 8750mi great circle and SQ using A345 commercially, so LHR-PER would be seemingly on the edge of commercial possibilities, until you consider the comparable loads you can take on B744 or A380 via HKG/SIN/DXB etc.

My gues is it won't be long before A345 or B777ER might be 'capable' of some sort of commercial ops non stop LHR-SYD, at least in one direction anyway, but at what cost to pax?

[Globaliser]

LHR-HKG-SYD routings take longer than LHR-SIN/BKK-SYD, though. I saw a discussion recently about this, in the context of QF's new LHR-HKG-SYD service and why it take so much longer despite the fact that turnaround time at HKG is about the same as turnaround in SIN and BKK. I infer that aircraft must fly more track miles if going via HKG.

[redsnail]

I dare say one of the limiting factors in an ultra long haul flight to Perth is the lack of suitable alternates nearby.

[CargoOne]

Finally I've got a first hand feedback from colleague who travelled SIN-LAX non-stop few days ago. Although he admits that business class service on this particular flight is better than other SQ' longhaul C-class (and by all means SQ is one of the best anyway)... He said he wouldn't try it again and already proven it: he changed his return ticket from direct flight to other SQ service which is stopping in Narita.
He said there is just one reason behind it: 19 hrs in row (from boarding till deboarding) is hell too long to spend in a metal tube.

London-OZ is even longer than SIN-LAX. Actually, LHR-SYD could be done only as a ferry flight on modern equipment anyway. Even there is a technical possibility in place to do it, it is a big question about demand. BKK/SIN/DXB/HKG/whatever to have a one hour walk, smoke and beer outside the 4-engine tube would be the choise of most travellers.

[Flightmapping]

I take it there's been no advance lately on the hotol rocket, which would have done LON to SYD in a couple of hours.

I agree, there's no way I'd want to spend 24 hours in one of the current tubes plying this route, but hasn't the A380 got a bit more space to wander around in? How does its range compare with the A345?