Whistler or Banff For Conference - Your Input Please

[Autorotate]

Hey Guys,

Please disregard the previous postings about the conference. After having a good long chat with 407 Driver we have narrowed down the location for the Heli Conference to either Banff or Whister.

A few of you have asked about why it was changed from the Great Barrier Reef. Well even though we had it all in place, with sponsors, speakers, itinerary etc, we ran into the problem that it was too close to the end of the Avalon Airshow in Melbourne.

The bottom line is rather than try and fight it we decided to move it lock, stock and barrel to another location. Sun City in South Africa was one of those but the feedback I got from everyone is that they would prefer somewhere in Canada so thats what we have done.

After much consultation with 407 Driver we are down to two final locations and these are the resort towns of Banff or Whister. The time frame is the second or third week of November 2005. Therefore its also a lot closer for most people.

Can you advise which location you think would offer the best to visitors. Thanks again and welcome any and all comments.

Regards

Autorotate.

[heedm]

Either is a great place in all seasons. Operators nearby have shown outstanding hospitality (Alpine, Whistler Heliport, Blacktusk, others that I'm forgetting?).

When are you thinking. Who's involved. What exactly is to be done?.

Matthew.

[Autorotate]

Heedm - Looking at the second or third week of November 2005. Here is what we put together so far and this is going to be slightly modified.

MONDAY
2.00pm - 5.00pm Bringing Assns Together
7.00pm - 10.30pm Welcome Function



TUESDAY

Breakfast 0700 - 0800

0800 - 12.00 Dir of Maint Roundtable
0800 - 12.00 Risk Management
0800 - 12.00 Helicopter Tourism Roundtable
0800 - 12.00 Offshore Operators Roundtable
0800 - 12.00 Working in the Wire Environment

Lunch 12.00 - 1.00pm

1.00 pm-3.30pm NVG In Police & EMS Ops
1.00 pm - 3.30pm Ops & Maint Working as One.
1.00 pm - 3.30pm Insurance
1.00 pm - 3.30pm Longlining - The Ups and Downs Of It.
1.00 pm - 3.30pm Flight & Duty Times

Afternoon Tea - 3.30 - 3.45

3.45pm - 5.45pm Procedures & Limitations
3.45pm - 5.45pm Marketing Your Company
3.45pm - 5.45pm Accidents & The Lessons Learnt
3.45pm - 5.45pm Employment - Who Wants Who
3.45pm - 5.45pm Dangerous Goods for the Small Operator



7.30 - 10.30pm BBQ





WEDNESDAY

Breakfast - 0700 - 0800

0800 - 12.00 SAR/Hoist Users Roundtable
0800 - 12.00 Global Fire Fighting Operations
0800 - 12.00 CRM for Single Pilot Operations
0800 - 12.00 Chief Pilot Roundtable
0800 - 12.00 Working in the Wire Environment



THURSDAY

Breakfast 0700-0800

0800 - 09.30am Helicopter Performance
0800 - 09.30am Civil Use of Ex Military Aircraft
0800 - 09.30am Safety from a Canadian Perspective
0800 - 09.30am
0800 - 09.30am

M/Tea 09.30 - 9.45am

9.45 - 11.15am Eurocopter Product Briefing
9.45 - 11.15am Sikorsky Product Briefing
9.45 - 11.15am Pratt & Whitney Product Briefing
9.45 - 11.15am Agusta Product Briefing
9.45 - 11.15am Enstrom Product Briefing


11.30 - 1.00pm Emergency Procedures
11.30 - 1.00pm Rolls Royce Product Briefing
11.30 - 1.00pm Supplier Mini Product Briefings
11.30 - 1.00pm Supplier Mini Product Briefings
11.30 - 1.00pm TBA




1800 - Midnight Function


FRIDAY

Breakfast 0700-0800

0800 - 10.00am Working in the Wire Environment
0800 - 10.00am Legal Liabilities - Your Rights.
0800 - 10.00am CRM for the Multi Crew Cockpit
0800 - 12.00pm Private Owners Roundtable
0800 - 12.00pm Flight Training Roundtable.

10.15 - 12.15pm LTE - Myth or Fact
10.15 - 12.15pm Pushing the Flight Envelope - Flight Test
10.15 - 12.15pm Chosing a Completion House
10.15 - 12.15pm Fatigue Management in Maintenance Ops
10.15 - 12.15pm


Lunch 12.00 1.00pm

1.00 - 2.30pm Vortex Ring & Setting With Power
1.00 - 2.30pm Using the Internet.
1.00 - 2.30pm
1.00 - 2.30pm Human Factors in Night Flying
1.00 - 2.30pm Aircraft Mods - How, Wheres and Why

A/Tea 2.30 - 3.00pm

3.00 - 5.00pm Mustering Operations Roundtable
3.00 - 5.00pm Night VFR Ops - Lessons Learnt
3.00 - 5.00pm Confined Area Operations
3.00 - 5.00pm Certification of Russian Aircraft
3.00 - 5.00pm EMS Funding - How To Get It.


7.00pm - ?? Gala Dinner - Closing Ceremony

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hey,

Worrabout Uncle Frankie and his flying machines, is he not going to be a product supporter?:E

Vfr

[Heliport]

I'd vote for Banff because it seems to offer easier access to other beautiful areas in the Canadian Rockies, but I haven't been to either so can't really judge.

Could our Canadian contributors give us pros/cons of both places?

Also, what's the weather like at that time of the year?
Will the ski season have started?

[rotornut]

I've never been to Whistler but I can tell you a little bit about Banff:

- Lots of accommodation, should be cheaper in November as it's off-season. The cream of the crop is the Banff Springs Hotel.

- Very scenic with lots of attractions close by - Sulphur Mountain gondola, Lake Louise, Columbia Icefield, hiking trails, hot springs.

- Can be chilly in November from what I've heard.

- Lake Louise ski resort is scheduled to open November 9, weather permitting. Also Sunshine Village could be open.

- Banff is very touristy - main drag is full of tourist shops with all the standard stuff

- Very easy to get to from Calgary.

Hope this helps a bit.

[diethelm]

Thanksgiving is the third week of November so if you get too close, schedules get busy because of the 4 day holiday.

[rotorboy]

I vote Whistler. It is a little easier to get to than Banaff. Heaps of accomdation (condo rentals etc), resturants, watering holes. The only problem is that is just the tail end of shoulder season, as it is in Banff. Why not move it more into the winter so we can ski. The mountain may be open by then but it will be hit or miss.

Rb

[B Sousa]

Both those places are extremely Beautiful and would be a great place if you are Rich...........
Having said that and also as one who has hosted more than one International Conference, I also realize that there are certain factors that make a conference successful rather than a dream holiday.
Expense being the main topic as if it gets to pricey some may not attend.
Ease and expense of Transportation to/from the site
Accomodations and meeting rooms
Items of interest while there

All those are the main items considered when hosting a larger conference.
The Punchline is that La$ Vega$ has it all. In fact the NBAA will be here next month which says something..
So if your on Holiday, yes head to Canada, if your going to host a large conference, consider Las Vegas.........
Ned you have been here, how soon you forget.......Your Beer is still cold.

[Bronx]

I kinda thought the Ozzieland conference was definite and planned around it. No sense bleating now and no offence intended but if folks are going to take your conference as a serious idea you gotta think it through, make a plan and stick to it.

Canada?
Good choice. Big helicopter industry, lotsa helo pilots and the Rockies offer some of the most awesome scenery in North America.
Folks attending from other countries will probably want to make a vacation of it, taking in the conference and spending some time looking at Canada. Some guys will use that to sell the idea to their wives etc.

So ..... what's the weather like in Banff or Whistler in November?

If it's all rain and low cloud it ain't gonna appeal to folk who want to explore Canada if you can't see the Rockies.
Summer's beautiful. Winter's beautiful and scope for skiing.
Is November in no mans land between the two? :confused:
If November's cheaper, is that because nobody wants to go there in November?

Just my two cents.

Can some of our Canadian friends help us here?

[Autorotate]

Bert - You are actually wrong on those places being only for the rich. Because it is the off season there the rates are very very good.

Banff is only a 1.5 hr ride from Calgary and Whistler is about the same from Vancouver and both trips are very scenic so thats a plus. Every major airline flies into Calgary and more so into Vancouver so getting there from anywhere is not a problem.

Vegas is good if you have a major conference but this is something we are looking at making different in a location that is not one of the major US tourist traps. As I mentioned previously I want to look at somewhere in Canada because trying to deal with the unions is BS at the best of times. A classic example is I wanted ten boxes of magazines moved from the entrance to the show to my booth, a two min walk at the max. The union labor there wanted to charge me $650 USD to move them :mad:

On the other hand every event I have been to in Canada has been great and the attitude of the people that work with you to make it happen seems so much more helpful than what you find in places like Los Angeles and Vegas. No offence to anyone living there.

Hope that answers your questions. Keep the beer in the fridge for me.

Autorotate.

[wde]

Wow...Sounds like I have to clear my schedule for next Fall!!

Either spot is a great place to visit. November is tricky, though because both Banff and Vancouver/Whistler will be prone to wet mawsy weather that time of year. Being the "shoulder" season, as one of you put it, will reduce hotel costs a bit, that is certain. I can do a bit of research for the organizers and 'suss that out for it, if desired. (PM me.) Vancouver/Whistler will be a going concern as preparations for Vancouver2010 Olympics picks up; I don't know what will be happening in that regard, though. Both locations are easily accessed by international air travel and both provinces are big players in the Rotor industry.

Helijet International ([URL=http://www.helijet.com]) runs a S76 Commuter service in Southern BC; perhaps they are a potential corporate sponsor. Alpine Helicopters may be able to provide the same in Alberta. Calgary is the home to most of the Canadian Oil Companies, so there may be a tie in there as well.

2005 is the Centennial for Alberta becoming a Province; I don't know if there are any activities for the Centennial planned that late in the year, though.

On a good day, both locations are spectacular; and if the Fall wx has been brutal, there is always the possibility of some early season skiing...

Banff is probably the cheaper of the two choices; although I don't know what kind of conference facilities they offer.

Post your questions, I will answer as best I can.

Cheers

[rotornut]

Thanksgiving is the third week of November so if you get too close, schedules get busy because of the 4 day holiday.

Sorry, but Thanksgiving is October 11 in Canada.

Banff has lots of conference facilities. I forgot to mention that Banff has lots of wildlife both in and outside of the townsite as it's in a national park. There are always elk and other critters wandering around town.

[Heliport]

http://www.salad.dodger.dsl.pipex.com/banff.jpg

Banff visitor information: here (http://www.discoverbanff.com/)



Whistler visitor information: here (http://www.whistler-bc.com/)


http://www.freetravelguides.com/British%20Columbia%20Pictures/Whistler%20Blackcomb/WB%20Whistler%20village%20in%20december%202002.jpg

[B Sousa]

Ned, dont get me wrong you have my vote on Canada. And you have picked a nice spot. Forgive me I was trying to be logical,
And I agree with you on the Union Bull:mad:
Weather may be a bit chilly, but they have Cold Weather Medicine there called "Alberta Springs" great sippin whiskey.
Is this Conference open to us lowlife Pilots also. If so, Im a packin the bags and the 4x4 and headin North........ Lets do it before the Canadian Dollar gets any Better..........

[aspinwing]

Banff -- better all around IMHO :cool:

[Autorotate]

WDE - Thanks for the info and much appreciated. The place that has been the most supportive so far has been the Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise and the rates they are extending to us are fantastic to say the least.

I know this is not in the middle of Banff but a few kilometres out of town. Do you all think this would be a problem. Here is the link to their site:


Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise (http://www.fairmont.com/lakelouise/)

They told me the ski resorts open around the 1st of November so we would be there after it has started snowing. Great place for the kids and their conference facilities are great. They have just built a new wing with even more conference rooms.

Bert - Yes the conference is being designed for primarily pilots, engineers and owners as well as management. We are going to keep the costs realistic so it appeals to everyone.

Bronx - I appreciate your comments about sticking with Hamilton Island but all the contributing factors were piling up so that it was going to make it unfeasible to continue with it. Rather than cancel it all together we decided to move it lock stock and barrel to another location. The problem was where, which is why I decided to ask the members here who are a great cross section of the industry, what they thought. I knew I would get some honest no BS feedback.

Although I feel we might have come across as though we dont know what we are doing, I will assure you, and everyone else, that we are 120% committed to putting on event unlike any other, that is dedicated to the 'working people' of the industry, not just those with the big cheque books.

Thanks again all.

Autorotate.

[407 Driver]

Lk Louise is a Fantastic spot. The service there is excellent, the November prices very reasonable, the views are the best in the Rockies. It is a 30-45 minute drive to Banff though.

This pic was taken at 9500', looking NE down toward Lk Louise. Not a bad view to awake to....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/dsmctighe/AbbottsPasstowardLkLouise.jpg



For added entertainment, The Ski Hill should be running both a Mens and Womans World Cup Downhill and GS about the 2nd week of November.

[dammyneckhurts]

Both locations would be great.... a few points to add about each.

If you fly in on an airline, you don’t need a car once you get to Whistler. Everything is in walking distance, or you can use the free shuttle that does the loop around the village. There is a also a huge selection of condos available in/around the village. This means full kitchen facilities for those that are trying to save a bit on eating out 3 meals a day.
Whistler also has a Heli-port, so if there are any "Full scale displays" this would be a huge plus for any manufacturers interested in doing demo flights. There is also an airport located in Pemberton (25 min drive) for any plank drivers that may attend.
Another point is that there must close to 20 helicopter companies within a two hour drive of Whistler.


The Fairmont at Lake Louise is about a 45 min drive from Banff, it's an amazing place to be sure, but not quite so convient as staying right in town.
Unfortunately there isn’t an airport/heliport in Banff or Lake Louise. There is one in Canmore (only 15 min from Banff) but not really suited for many transient aircraft.
Not sure of the availability of condos right in Banff, although I am pretty sure there is a good selection in Canmore.
Not nearly as many local operators in the Banff/ Calgary area compared to Whistler/ Vancouver.

There are many more considerations of course, I live in Whistler (as you may have guess by my somewhat biased post!!) and am more than happy to help with any questions people have about the area....

DMNH

[Autorotate]

DMNH - Great feedback and appreciate it. What are peoples thoughts on the self catering side of things. If you are only there for say three or four days does it make a big difference to your budgets if you can cater yourself. Just trying to look at all options here.

Good points about the Heliport at Whistler and its something I should look into as no doubt if we have a number of attendees then I would presume the manufacturers might wish to put something on display. Is the heliport right in Whistler and easy to get to. Is there parking facilities available if private owners decide to visit and leave their machines there or would it be only room for a couple of smaller machines. Having never been there am not sure.

I am going to make a flying visit up there to have a look around. Drop me a PM if you can with details of what resorts you would reccomend there in Whistler.

Autorotate.

:ok:

[Robbo Jock]

I went skiing to Lake Louise a few years back. Absolutely fantastic place to ski. The Chateau is beautiful, big, and superbly positioned. The problem I would guess for something of this sort, though, is that the town is very very quiet - a few Hotels and a couple of shops, fairly spread out. Some great places to eat (the old Railway Station is excellent, and the walk from our Hotel along the tracks to get to it was 'interesting'!) and a few quiet bars. Perfect for what we wanted when we went skiing, but I would think a little low-key for a get together of the Heli industry.

[Spaced]

Having lived in both as a snow bum, I would have to vote for Whistler.
To echo DamMyNeckHurts, its so central. Once there you can get by easily without a car, and theres heaps of accom.

[B Sousa]

Ned
Again as one who has hosted a few Conferences. You must form a site selection committee of which you will be the representative and visit these places beforehand. Each of the properties will no doubt take good care of you.....
But Im sure your way ahead of me on that.....

[canuck slf]

As has been said above, no heliport or airstrip at Banff as it is was closed in late 90's by National Parks Board.
I would suggest Vancouver, nearest Intl Airport for Whistler, has better air connections from Pacific and as good as Calgary from Europe, or US. Whistler, has 7.5% BC Provincial Sales Tax on most things, whereas Banff, has no provincial sales tax. Either is good and scenery is very similiar. Whistler has more varied scenery in the area, ocean and islands immediately West.
Good choice whichever you decide.

[407 Driver]

The Banff airport is open for business ! Parks Canada attempted to close it, (and Jasper) but backed down after a legal battle with the local aircraft owners. You'll see several aircraft tied down at either site.

In saying that, the airport is definitely not for the faint-of-heart, between Elk on the runway, Gopher holes, and windsocks that tend to point at each other, and downflowing air off of Cascade Mtn...it is a challenging strip.

[Rick Burt]

What association or organization is requesting this meeting?

[Autorotate]

Rick - Its not an association or organisation requesting the conference. What it is as follows. I have spent the past two years doing some research with operators all over the globe about putting on a conference for industry people, minus all the trade show type booths, displays etc that come with any show such as Heli Expo, ALEA, AAMS etc etc.

This event will have four days of workshops, with each session chaired by a person in the industry who has experience in that field. The support we have received for this idea has been fantastic and we have secured sponsorship for it to make it all happen. It will basically be for the front line people such as pilots, mechanics, ops managers, chief pilots etc. The conference will run for three, maybe four days and will consist of morning and afternoon sessions as well as quite a few two hours sessions. There will also be roundtables for segements of the industry such as tourism, law enforcement, offshore etc.

Operators from South America, Africa, Middle East, Asia and Oceania are supporting this big time and all indications are its going to be a great success.

Keep checking back here for more info as we decide on the final location. It will either be Banff or Whistler. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about it.

Regards

Autorotate.

[Autorotate]

I spoke to a few people from Whistler and they said road closures on the Sea to Sky hwy are quite frequent and can sometimes last for some time. Is this a concern for people travelling to the conference, in my opinion I would say it is. The road from Calgary to Banff, from what I understand is a four lane highway all the way.

Also as 407Driver said the airport at Banff is still open so there would be no problem for people who wanted to fly into the event and would be great to have some of the manufacturers put their aircrarft on display for attendees to have a look at.

Another option I am looking at is the Fairmont Banff Springs hotel which is also a very nice property. Any comments from people on this one.

Banff Springs Hotel (http://www.fairmont.com/banffsprings)


Looks like a nice place and is in the middle of Banff so not as far to get to as the one at Lake Louise.

Just out of curiosity how long would it take to fly from Vancouver to Banff in say a 206.

Thanks again.

Autorotate.

[407 Driver]

A word of caution on the Banff airstrip. I have received all of my info firsthand from a Private aircraft owner who was fighting with Parks Canada in the past. He and his fellow aviators are willing to take them on Legally, PC have never pursued the issue. He and his partners continue to use the strip at their convenience to this day.

It may be prudent to "check for yourself" prior to entering into this situation.

Manufacturers may not want to risk parking aircraft there, without any security, and with the high risk of Elk damage to their aircraft. Canmore Heliport, 15 minutes away, does have a more secure parking area, fuel (Jet A), phones, etc. and NO Elk.

A Bell 206 should be able to fly YVR-YBA in approx 3.5 or YYC-YBA in 0.6

[rollie rotors]

407 driver, check your CFS prior to advertising CYBA open for business. "A/D to be used for emerg/diversions only."

[407 Driver]

Exactly. ...and I humbly appologise.

The problem was my source of info, the local aircraft owner.

How can the locals come and go freely, without any PC interference, given the wording in the CFS? What is published and what is actually happening are 2 different things.
In my second post, I mentioned that it would be prudent to check for yourself.......

[rollie rotors]

No need to apologize 407, remember these access regs were slammed on us by the then Heritage Minister the Right Honorable Sheila "Tequila" Copps. Luckily turfed on her duff in the last federal election, unfortunately the regs remain on the books.

Your local folks must operate under special permit issued by the Parks Superintendent. The National Parks Aircraft Access Regulations currently prohibit the landing or take-off of an aircraft in a national park or a national park reserve. The permits are valid for the date, dates or period indicated in the permit.

Violations of these regs will be prosecuted under the Canada National Parks Act, which carries a maximum fine of up to $2,000 on summary conviction and up to $5,000 on indictment.

Now that the Liberal's are sitting gingerly with a minority, time for a change?

[407 Driver]

No special permits or waivers have been given to the locals......they simply operate, and PC does nothing to stop them.
That's not saying that PC might become active again if 5 helicopters arrived for this conference though.

Personally, I'd have no problem flying a F/W into Banff today. I know I'd have the support of the local pilots and owners, and their Legal arsenal which shut down PC on the last go-around.

It was wrong of me to have said it is "open", but then again...is it actually closed ??????

Basically, PC have already set a precident by allowing the Locals to operate carte-blanche.

[heedm]

We flew a search out of Banff using the parks office, and shortly moved our base to Canmore. While in Banff, the Parks guy told me about the strip. His attitude was that it is a private use airstrip for locally based aircraft only. He gave us permission to operate there, but without fuel or security it wasn't appropriate.

I'd be sure to ask permission before going there. For the conference, ask and we may receive.

I've flown around, worked, and been a tourist in both places. I vote Whistler. As much to do in any area, but in Whistler everything is closer, and the weather will probably be more enjoyable. Could be wet and foggy, but Banff will be cool to cold.

Matthew.

[Autorotate]

Something else for your feedback. Below are the rates I got from the Banff Springs Hotel. What are your thoughts, reasonable, or not.

Room Type: Single/Double

Fairmont $189.00
Deluxe $229.00
Signature $269.00
Junior Suite $309.00
One Bedroom Suite $409.00

Obviously these are in Canadian dollars. I think they are pretty good as normal rack rate starts at $300 Canadian per night. Thanks again for feedback guys and look forward to more of your input.

Regards
Autorotate