PPL then integrated course?

[The Butler]

Hey up, hope you're all in good fettle. Now then, I decided I wanted to be a pilot in my final year of uni (last year) so I started off by getting lessons and doing my PPL as a taster. As the weather has been so crap Ive only managed to clock about 25 hours so far and I started in Novemeber 03! Anyway Im getting a little frustrated now as I don't seem to be geeing anywhere fast. I plan on doing a fully integrated course at either Oxford or FTE Jerez as soon as I have my PPL. Do you think doing my PPL first is a daft idea? Is it possible to come to an arrangement with these FTO's so when it does come to your practical training you don't have to backtrack and do things you've already done (the basics etc)?. Is it possible to use the money instead to fly more ME time or something like that? Im trying to weigh things up and decide weather its worth carrying on with my PPL now or weather to just start my integrated course straight away. Any advice or useful info would be much appreciated. Oh and if you're just gonna tell me to do a search then please don't bother, thanks,

Butty

[Groundloop]

I believe the rules allow up to 50% of previous flying experience (ie in your case 12 hours of your 25) to be counted towards the hours requirement of a course. This is entirely at the discretion of the FTO. If they do allow previous experience they will normally reduce the course fees by a pro rata amount, or else allow you extras elsewhere.

However, as already mentioned, this is discretionary and therefore you should negotiate with each FTO to try and get the best deal.

Also, if you are definite about doing an integrated course you should think about not continuing with your PPL and saving the money for later.

[Send Clowns]

Why? Why do an integrated course, and why a PPL before if you do?

When a certain school tried to sell me an integrated course they told me I could count 10 of my then 180 fixed-wing hours to the course. Check with the provider what you can count, but why not do a modular course? Has more hours for less money anyway.

[rotormad]

I have a PPL and 80 hours and am now on a Intergrated course and to be honest having a PPL stands for very little. They have a very regimented way of teaching and a totally structured course that's not to say that it won't stand you in good stead. I had a 15 hour abrigment given to me which was a couple of grand off so to be honest if you are set on doing an intergrated course i'd save my money...but it's up to you!!!

Hope that helps:ok:

R

Hah shouldn't really use the words 'save money' and 'intergrated course' in the same sentence!!!;)

[The Butler]

Cheers rotormad, sounds like its not the best thing for the old wallet, but did it give you a good introduction and foundation for the ATPL exams and therefore made your studying easier having done all the PPL exams?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Don't bother - you'll get a load of claptrap from the CFI whittling your PPL down to 10 hours worth off the Integrated course. You may then wonder why you are back to circuits and local area nav - but hey - they have a bottom line to protect.

Either stop now or go Modular.

Cheers

WWW

[silverknapper]

Agreed - what the hell is the point in paying to cover the same stuff twice?
As the weather has been so crap Ive only managed to clock about 25 hours so far and I started in Novemeber 03
Just how hard have you been trying - must have seen 20 people get PPL's from scratch at my club since then, some in as little as a month. And thats in the Scottish highlands.
Have you actually asked your intended schools what credit they would give you?
It's crazy spending cash on a PPL to go integrated. Say a modular course costs £32k on average. £5k of that is the PPL so you could complete a CPL/IR for £27k. Or you could you to oxford or Jerez and give them over £60k.

Hmmmm

SK

[machonepointone]

In order to get any reduction in flying hours on an integrated course it is necessary to hold a licence. Therefore The Butler would not get any reduction at all on his present 25 hours. With a PPL it is possible to get up to 50% of one's flying hours as a reduction from the syllabus subject to a maximum of 40 hours (45 if you hold a night rating).

Irrespective of any reduction in training, anyone starting at an integrated school would still have to do a certain amount of flying before being sent solo. The average seems to be around 6 hours. The reason is that, to the school, that student is an unknown quantity when it comes to his flying ability which therefore needs to be assessed. In addition, merely holding a licence is not any guarantee of currency, nor is it any indication of the standard of training previously received. Moreover, in the case of overseas schools, the student would need time to become familiar with local rules and procedures (plus a different ATC environment).

The reason that people rarely get 50% off is due to the structure of an integrated syllabus. Of the 150 hours of flying, a minimum of 50 hours must be SPIC. 50 hours of solo navigation must also be logged , along with 5 hours night flying and around 30+ hours of twin engine time. Throw in the various tests (Progress Tests, CPL Skill Test and IRT), and there is very little scope for offering the full 50%.

[Vee One...Rotate]

This is interesting as I am considering this route as one of my options (I am about to start my PPL). Assuming a licence is held (PPL) and is pretty shiny and new (say 45-50 hours logged), is there any OBLIGATION on the part of an integrated FTO to give reductions in price and/or more time elsewhere to those in such a situation, or is it simply at the FTO's discretion? I have a feeling the answer is probably the latter so does anyone have any experience with specific schools (e.g. Oxford, Cabair, etc.) and their policies?

Cheers,

V1R

[Flying Farmer]

Hey Butler

On this site there are many high houred folks only to happy to help you out, after the way you replied to my post last time, namely Farmer Boy, I don't think I'll bother.

Cheers

FF

[Vee One...Rotate]

silverknapper,

Don't know if I'm missing something here but your (fairly harsh) assessment of The Butler after he stated he 'only' had 25 hours since November, and subsequent post seems a bit sweeping.

It's not just about desire...sometime practicalities come in - weather, final year of a degree, oh and of course MONEY! If The Butler is an average final year student, I'd say money might also be a factor (25 hours is about 2500 quid...over a year...as a final year student).

Anyway, I digress. Unless I've missed some fiery PMs between people, this thread seems to have taken a (pointless) turn into the bitchy. Come on, there's too much groundschool, living, flying and saving money to do to get so easily p***ed off with people.

Unless, like I say, I'm missing something.

Regards,

V1R

[Captain Ratpup]

Guys,

Everyone chill! We're all pretty much in the same boat and it's easy to read or write something here the wrong way.

Don't take things so seriously. You'll have enough time for that when you're on your IR skills test!

:ok:

Ratpup

[The Butler]

Flying farmer,

Sorry feller, no offense intended, I was writing my post and couldn't remember the exact name! Didn't mean to upset. :ok:

V1R, cheers but its a shame my post got deleted! I can\'t even remember exactly what I wrote but at least someone thought it was deserved. Nice one. :ok: