BA gone to pot?

[LTNman]

So what is happening at Heathrow? 25 flights cancelled on Monday and many more delayed, passengers left in the dark and on the ground. Rumors abound that staff are going sick now before it counts against their £1000 bonus.

[sammyhostie3]

I saw it on the bbc website, because of CSA shortage at LHR they had to cancel lots of flights.

They are recruiting 60 new staff, but as they only offer a temporary (with absolutely NO chance of it being extended) 6 month contract, what kind of incentive is that?

Staff Travel equates to nothing, as the SBY's and ID's are done on length of service; so all they get is hotlines which are not that much cheaper tahn published fares anyway.

[Runway 31]

Shortage of staff and 3 long haul flights cancelled due to technical problems are blamed for yesterdays problems. Another 10 flights cancelled today. What a way to treat their customers as nobody was telling them what the problems were.

This company is going from bad to worse. Why should anyone book with a company with so many problems and have a management who do not have a clue about what is going on.

These let down passengers will not travel BA again and a lot of them will have been transfering to long haul where the money is made.

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Not "The World's Favourite" anymore I fear, especially after the strike threat and now this. Bad press everywhere.

[WHBM]

I had business customers come down from Newcastle to Heathrow twice to see me in the last few weeks (August 4 and 13) and on both days their 1800 return to Newcastle was cancelled and they ended up getting stuck in London overnight. We've changed the way we do the project now, no more of this nonsense.

This morning there is a patronisingly-worded statement on ba.com saying "Due to a number of contributory factors there have been a small number of cancellations on 24 August" - followed by a list of no less than 21 flights. Now I don't know who at Waterside thinks that to cancel 21 flights (and god knows how many more as the day progresses) is only a "small number", but they are clearly detached from reality.

[ojs]

Can someone in the know tell me... How long (in days / weeks) is the BA check-in (PRS) training course?

[LTNman]

This from the press:

Several thousand British Airways passengers faced delays and cancellations at Heathrow Airport because of staff shortages and technical problems, it emerged today.

The problems began after the airline cancelled three long-haul flights to the United States yesterday afternoon over technical problems with the aircraft.

The disruption worsened BA's current staff shortages and led to the cancellation of another 22 flights - most of which were short-haul - and others being delayed.

Up to 5,000 passengers are thought to have been affected by the disruption which comes at one of the busiest times of the year for the airline industry.

Some were accommodated on later flights, some were provided with overnight hotel accommodation and seats on flights today while others simply had to rebook.

A BA spokeswoman said there could be a knock-on effect to services today.

"We apologise sincerely to those customers affected by the disruption to flights at Heathrow Airport yesterday," she said.

"Due to a number of operational reasons we have cancelled 25 flights and some services have been delayed.

"August is the busiest period of the year for British Airways and services at Heathrow are stretched.

"We have also had some technical problems with our aircraft and these combined has resulted in the cancellations.

"Our staff are working extremely hard to ensure operations return to normal."

The US-bound flights cancelled due to technical problems were those to Philadelphia, Chicago and New York.

Among the short-haul flights that were cancelled were those to Edinburgh, Munich and Aberdeen.

British Airways is currently recruiting more staff.

Only last weekend, a planned strike by BA workers for the August Bank Holiday weekend was called off.

The strike had threatened to cause travel chaos to tens of thousands of holidaymakers.

However, unions representing baggage handlers and check-in staff at airports, including Heathrow and Gatwick, agreed a pay deal with managers to head off the 24 hour walkout.

BA has agreed an 8.5% pay increase over three years as well as £1,000 payable in three lump sum payments between now and September 2006.

[411A]

This certainly can't be good news for anybody.

BA unfortunately hasn't been very reliable since they got rid of the Stratocruisers....downhill ever since.
Missed opportunities by the bucketful.
In a sorry state and not likely to change anytime soon.:sad: :uhoh:

[cirrus01]

The three long haul cancellations yesterday.........anything to do with EWS perhaps ???........ ( official version of " technical problems " ) seems like the CAA would not give any more dispensations to not fix ADDs.

Surprised that this discussion hasn't appeared earlier as BA have been cancelling lots of flights for weeks , down to a combination of lack of staff and lack of serviceable aircraft..........

Anyone want to buy a computer system that costs over 200 Million pounds and still doesn't work ??? :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[BRISTOLRE]

Night surcharges??
Several BA domestic & shorthaul flights departed & arrived LHR way after 0001z today, numerous A319 & B757 left rather EARLY !

[jerrystinger]

What is going on at BA? A huge % of the workforce are dissatisfied with pay and conditions, literally thousands of lost bags, staff shortages and "technical" (or poor maintenance?) probs causing cancellations and delays left right and centre and a notable increase in 777s and 747s in significant emergencies (LHR-HRE, LHR-YYZ, MIA-LHR, LHR-MIA, PHX-LHR.....)
What next?

[sammyhostie3]

OJS,

I used to be a CSA for BA.

The course was just over 5 weeks long, and it certainly wasnt all about PRS!

The pass rates are very high, and bearing in mind I have passed succesfully many crew courses, the CSA course was the hardest, most pressurized and demoralizing course I have ever done.


5 people were either told to leave or couldnt take it anymore.

Apparently they were and still are trialling a new training course.

Be prepared for a lot of tears. I made some great friends though.


Oh and also you have to learn EVERY airport code, and these are tested every day!

[surely not]

I have no connection with BA and no particular liking for them, but this constant raising of the baggage problems is misleading.
The problem arose because of freak weather conditions at their main base and was not to do with any ongoing inefficiencies in their baggae dept. With the high percentage of transfer passengers that they carry there was always going to be problems getting bags back with the passengers.
Re-uniting pax with their bags is not straight forward and anyone who thinks it is should spend a day with the baggage facilities dept and see the fun and games they have when this sort of disruption happens.
Sure BA has plenty of other problems at the moment which are a result of poor management and unrealistic unions, but the severe baggage problem was a one off.

[Skylion]

Serious problems seem to continue and get worse. No sign of Eddington fronting up for the company on press and TV on this or the strike threat and in the TV pictures of the terminals theres no sign of the management walking the floor. BA is the best payer and has the best general terms and conditions in the UK industry. The problems show its not really all about money,- its about people management and its not complex stuff. Its about getting out of offices and meetings and onto the floor and ramp and wherever people work and just talking to them. "Laptop management" simply wont do and nor will suited state visits, in-touch days where once in a decade some managers meet actual staff and customers. These things are just patronising. What is important,- and any manager worth their position should instinctively know, and enjoy, -is constant day to day contract with the real world. BA has become entangled by its own processes and proceedures,- talks a lot about people issues, political correctness etc etc but seems to lack both people skills in actually relating to staff and customers ,and competitive and business instincts when dealing with the market.

[phoenix son]

Skylion,

Amen to all that!

PHX

[Basil]

411A,
Have to take exception there.
In the eighties, under the management of King & Marshall, BA enormously improved their passenger appeal. Working for a Persian Gulf airline, I listened to our passenger comment about BA and it was almost invariably complimentary.
Subsequently, Ayling tried some interesting ideas with mixed results. Losing the brand with 'ethnic' fins was not one of his successes.
Under Eddington they seem to have drifted a bit.
The comment by Street this morning that they are short of check in staff demonstrates a remarkable lack of basic forward planning although his partial excuse of difficulties with ID cards is believable in the present imbroglio.

Skylion,
Yes, recollect a fairly prestigious crew hotel in Scotland where the general manager (not just the duty manager) walked the floor and spoke to staff and guests alike.
Gave one a nice warm feeling, esp when he paid for the drinks as well :ok:

[madgolfer]

WHY they had 19 of 26 Purchasing staff request redundancy when they implemented SAP R3... the same software that is currently causing chaos in EWS - backlogs, shortages, delays, etc etc. The system DIDN'T work for NATS, who I understand manfully soldiered on until the next release (R4?) was available; Singapore Airlines dumped it, and what did BA do?? Spend MEGA amounts on a system that plainly is NOT the be-all-and-end-all that SAP Marketing claim it to be! I believe it's only a matter of time before we see fatalities - and I don't mean a SAP-user committing suicide! SAP is NOT the software for EWS. Ask Stores. See the heaps of components/tyres etc. awaiting repair. WHY has CAA not grounded BA yet?

[angels]

Looks like the London Evening Standard hacks read Pprune.

Just had the early editions delivered to the dealing room and the front page splash is 'Flights chaos at Heathrow'. A lot of the story seems somewhat similar to what has appeared on this thread....

Link here. (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/12754409?source=Evening%20Standard)

[WHBM]

this constant raising of the baggage problems is misleading.
The problem arose because of freak weather conditions at their main base and was not to do with any ongoing inefficiencies ....baggage problem was a one off.
Surely not:

Let me give you an example of a current stupidity that caused me to have my baggage lost for 2 days for the first time ever for me.

BA have scheduled their St Petersburg flight out of T1 this summer at 06.55. They have a procedure that all visas on flights to Russia need to be checked by supervisors at the check-in desks. But the supervisors do not come on duty until 06.00. So checking in before this time (which of course most do) causes puzzlement over what to do. And my bags were "red tagged", which I was told meant they were put to one side until my visa was checked, again at the gate. And of course you can guess what happened can't you ..... And at St Petersburg there were a whole lot of pax with missing bags, and no English-speaking staff on duty in the baggage hall.

And this is nothing to do with a one-off weather problem and everything to do with basic mismanagement of the staff.

[MaxReheat]

Not only ground staff shortage. Subsid Citiexpress is running on goodwill of cabin crew and flight crew working overtime. Cancellations rife over past 3 or 4 weekends. The balloon will burst soon.

[Max Tow]

According to Evening Standard, BA spokesperson allegedly commented that today's cancellation of 21 flights "wasn't that much" as there are 500 flights a day in and out of LHR.
So that's the sort of response these PR professionals are paid for - I shudder to think if she'll adopt the same approach if just one of those 500 had an accident?
Wouldn't a humble apology to the thousands whose holidays/businesses/lives have been disrupted be a bit more appropriate? Still, I expect we'll get the usual blurb in BA News this weekend about how the staff performed wonders rather than the heads that should roll...

[pprecious]

SAP = Stop All Payments

and I believe there are more meanings as well.

[1970s Spotter]

This is what happens when a plc makes cutbacks, cutbacks, cutbacks - not just in the aviation business but in all businesses.

THE BUBBLE HAS TO BURST

Employees can only take on so much extra work, after that point incentives, bonuses and overtime are irelevant.

The bosses at BA make me very angry!

PS. I fly on BA on a regular basis, my employer insists on it...

[ABird747]

As someone else said, I am suprised too about how long it took for this thread to start... our service was going downhill fast before, now it's a nosedive!

Part of the problem in BA is that no one dares to say when anything is bad, it's seen as being negative. Everyone's so afraid of losing their job they just toe the line.

I got told off the other day for saying that the terminal management and most of Inflight Services management were incomepetent bean counters. Apparently the suggestion that when people make a mistake they should be held accountable was "not what we need to be thinking about in the current climate" What can you say to that?

[Orion Man]

I'm afraid the heydays at BA are over. They have to trim the workforce to be competitive against the Locos and in doing so they are going to make mistakes.

10 years ago the airline was able to charge £600 for a return trip to Milan because of a lack of competition and make profits of hundreds of millions of pounds despite being hugely cost inefficient.

Those days are gone and the airline is left with a legacy of high costs and a heavily unionised workforce in what is a very competitive environment. I feel for Rod Eddington. He is on a hiding to nothing trying to make the airline efficient and correcting the mistakes of his incompetant predecessor.

Regards Orion Man

[eal401]

Maybe the BA management should have a read here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3593872.stm

They might realise just how much damage is occuring to the airline's reputation.

[colossus]

The rather low public visibility by Rod Eddington highlighted by Skylion just about sums it up.

If senior management has appears to have lost interest, why should those on six-month contracts at the coalface give a dam?

As BA’s recent adverts stated “…….more staff would be nice”, was that at Waterside or T4?

If you aspire to being a full service airline, and charge accordingly you’d best deliver, and the current evidence does not look promising, even if some events where initiated by weather conditions

When the low cost model is used as the basis of future competition on long-haul routes, which is just a case of natural progression, life will start to get really difficult for BA, and I feel this is but a couple of years away.

Time for a radical re-invention?

[LTNman]

This from the Evening Standard:

THOUSANDS of holidaymakers face chaos at Heathrow today after British Airways cancelled 78 flights. More delays and cancellations are expected and BA is facing its busiest period over the Bank Holiday weekend.

The cancellations, which caused 'pure pandemonium,' were being blamed on shortages of check-in and other ground staff. There were also reports of shortages among cabin crews.

The airline said more than 5,000 travellers had been affected so far. Passengers facing long delays today reacted angrily. South African tourist Terry Allan, 34, said: 'An airline as big as British Airways must surely know how many staff it needs to operate its routes.'

The trouble began yesterday when 10 short-haul flights were cancelled because BA could not open check-in desks due to a lack of staff. Passengers flying into the airport had long waits on the tarmac.

Massive queues built up as passengers showed up for their flights only to learn they had been cancelled.

Chaos ensued as baggage halls were swamped with a backlog of flights and passengers on incoming flights were kept waiting on runways for more than two hours after planes had touched down.

The chaos followed a total of 47 flights being cancelled last night and 31 more today. The total included three US-bound flights which were cancelled after technical faults.

BA, which only last weekend averted a strike planned for this Friday by ground staff, blamed today's disruption on crew and aircraft being out of place following last night's cancellations.

At Terminal 1 today the queue of frustrated passengers attempting to re-book after having flights cancelled stretched over 60 yards long and up to four people deep. Many of them were returning to try to arrange travel for a second day after falling victim to yesterday's disruption.

Spanish tourist Eduardo Tilve, 39, had been due to catch a flight home to Barcelona at 7.10pm yesterday but found at 10pm that it had been cancelled.

He said: 'There were no staff around to tell me what to do so in the end I just had to take myself to a hotel near the airport to wait until today so that I could try and get home.

"I thought they would have got their act together today but things are even worse. I was trying for ages to get through to their helplines and when I did finally get an answer they told me the earliest I could possibly get a flight would be tomorrow morning and that I should just occupy myself in London while I was waiting.

'They have all my luggage so I have nothing but what I am standing in. How am I supposed to occupy myself?

'They then put me on hold and while I was waiting they cut me off. The call cost me £8 and now I don't have any credit left on my mobile so I have no choice but to queue. The whole company is a mess. I don't know how they stay in business.'

Factory worker Terrence Delgaty, 48, and his 15-year-old daughter Nikita, from Basildon, Essex, had been due to fly with BA to Dusseldorf to visit relatives at 3.10pm yesterday.

Their first flight was cancelled and they were re-booked on to another at 6.15pm. But, after being told that flight was subjected to repeated delays, it too was cancelled.

They then had to get up at 6am and start queuing in the hope they might be able to get to Germany some time today.

'It was utter chaos here yesterday evening and is still a mess today,' said Mr Delgaty.

'Towards the end of yesterday people were getting so angry that armed policemen were having to stand next to what few British Airways managers there were to make sure things didn't get out of control.

'There is nothing we can do except queue and hope the airline finally gets it act together.'

Steve Allum, 47, an insurance broker who had been due to fly to Switzerland, said: 'We made a point of checking to see if there were any delays before we came and there was no disruption reported but we turn up here and the flight is just cancelled.'

Robert Banks, a 39-year-old businessman from Basingstoke, Hants, said: 'British Airways clearly have problems and in a way I am not surprised they are having difficulty getting staff in.

'Morale has got to be very low if they are threatening strikes but I don't think this sort of cancellation nightmare for travellers will improve their situation.'

Many travellers stranded in the Heathrow lounges said they could not find anyone from BA to tell them what was going on. This is a repeat of the criticism made against the company during last year's wildcat walk-out by BA check-in staff.

A BA spokeswoman apologised for the cancellations today but insisted that out of a total of 500 flights in and out of Heathrow every day 'it was not that much'.

She added: 'There is a bit of a backlog but we are working our way through it.'

BA said it expected that today would be the last day of difficulty and that flights will be fine for the Bank Holiday weekend.

[sammypilot]

Talking about appearing up front. The BA Operations Director appeared on lunchtime television news to say that the crisis was now passed and everything was back to normal.

Strange that Heathrow arrivals board is showing 10 BA cancellations at the present time. Perhaps that is what he regards as "normal."

[colossus]

Perhaps he meant “Normal” in the context of his increasing regular appearances to say sorry.

It’s just such a shame that all of the poorly paid customer facing guys and girls have to take all of the real flak from passengers, and all senior well paid management is required to do is go on television and say “Sorry”.

Or where we treated to Mike Street speaking to staff and passengers at a terminal, that would be something special.

[surely not]

WHBM, I wasn't referring to 'normal' lost baggage, but the harping back to the chaos that the recent storms caused as if it was normal for BA to lose tens of thousands of bags a day. There isn't an airline in the world that doesn't lose bags , and the larger the airline the bigger the numbers lost even if the percentage per 1000 pax stays the same. Very few bags remain lost forever and most are found and delivered within 3 days.

The example you post seems to be a bit cack handed and shooting themselves in the foot. No doubt an accountant somewhere has calculated the number of passengers likely to require the service and decided the number is too small to justify a Supervisor starting early. That said, they have a system in place which should work if people communicate. Sorry getting reactionary again....... people communicate.......it'll never happen.

[Diverse]

Sack Mike Street, an incompetent, patronising and arrogant fool.

Listening to him spout his rubbish was depressing. Those comments are for inside a meeting room, grovelling apologies and a commitment to customers is what was needed today.

I've reached the point now where I feel like telling someone I do live experiments on furry animals rather than tell them I work for BA, I'd feel less of an outcast

They spend their whole time bleating on about costs of this and that and savings and they're killing the company.

Andwhat's that muppet we've just recruited as a chairman up to?

Skippy had better pull his finger out as well, they're all fiddling while Rome burns and it's like watching the story of the emperor' new clothes round here.



p.s. Employ accountant to count money not decide company policy.

[Meeb]

Hate to have to drag up old news, but just have a look at what Skippy left behind him when he joined BA... looks like he is trying to complete the set... the guy is a complete tw@t... :)

[Max Tow]

As a.matter of interest, is RE in the country as present as the absence from public view in recent crises has been conspicuous? MS is not a great front-man - the performance after Radio 4's 15 minutes of the most appalling passenger experience interviews on the PM programme this evening was a touch haughty and unconvincing, I'm afraid. Much like the computer generated standard letters that will no doubt be sent out to those affected in 3 months' time (with 3 bottles of cheap wine,of course).
On a different tack, was there not a more imaginative and less traumatic solution when passengers are in the terminal, crewed and serviceable aircraft plus loaders are at the gate (especially on low baggage short haul?) I'm sure that in Japan tearful directors would fall on swords, but here..well BA was the top performing FTSE 100 stock today, so who needs happy customers!

[frangatang]

At last someone has the courage to mention what a f8888g idiot mke street really is and just recently he awarded himself the OBE.
He was a cabin crew manager many years ago and was terrified of the platelayers union.He still cowtows to them whilst making the pilots eat sh..t,so the pilot workforce would like to see thecretin disappear up his own arse. As for EWS,try the 400 trip the other day with no apu sitting in the dark groung power tripping off line,cant start 2 engines on stand because some idiot put the aircraft on a cul de sac stand and you cant start 2 before pushback there.Of course the apu had been stuffed for at least 10 days.Talk about billy smarts circus.

[Diverse]

Over Bearing Eedjit?

Senior Managers at BA and the unions spent months, weeks, days trying to prevent a strike.

"Please don't go on strike said the management! You'll wreck the company, and that's our job not yours." :E

(I know they didn't, it just feels like it)

[spork]

It's interesting that only a few days ago it was going to be "the strike" that was going to cause terrible damage. With that issue resolved for the time being, it seems that there are some serious mismanagement problems coming home to roost that are destroying the company. I expect the directors are disappointed that they can't now blame the check-in and handling staff for wrecking BA's reputation. It seems that clueless management is rife in the UK now; it's just that most of these imbeciles don't perform in such a public arena.

[HOVIS]

As a BA engineer for many years I can only apologise to my colleagues who have to fly the lumps of junk we now call aeroplanes.

We told our managers that the EWS system would cause unacceptable problems and having browsed through a couple of tech logs today I am frankly shocked at the levels of ADDs now outstanding.

3rd world charter outfits operate like this, not European aviation leaders.:mad:

[eal401]

'There is nothing we can do except queue and hope the airline finally gets it act together.'
He's going to have a long wait!!

I find Hovis' comments rather disturbing! :uhoh:

[Jezebelle]

I work for BA as cabin crew, and have seen how demoralised the whole workforce has become over the last couple of years. Yet front line staff still give 100% when they go to work.
Each time there is a debacle, Mike (I am so great) Street, is pushed out on his box somewhere near the airport, to spout of about, staff shortages, staff sickness, technical problems, weather problems!
They blame everyone and everything else but themselves. Whilst they sit in their ivory towers at waterside, awarding themselves big payrises, and thinking up more ways to cut more frontline staff, and save more money.
They have seemed to have lost the idea, that we are an airline, in a very competitive market. Filling HQ with MORE managers, that just sit and stare out of windows, is not going to check in passengers.
It is a well known fact, that we are the most top heavy airline in the world. Costs have been cut, but in all the wrong areas, ie front line staff.
The only ones to suffer are passengers. I dont blame anyone for voting with their feet. If I had a choice, I would not buy a ticket with BA at this present time either.
It is such a shame, that this once great company is slowly but surely going down the pan.

[jerrystinger]

I think BA staff should be commended for their continued battle against all odds, although I don't see why they still put up with such bad management! The whole country now looks at BA employees (ground staff, pilots, cabin crew...) and genuinely feels sorry for them!
Unfortunately, I do see why the BBC are pushing for a new, less shameful national carrier!

[Lou Scannon]

Mrs Scannon and I will be flying BA next Tuesday. Can anyone tell me why, when things go wrong, that we can't expect a whole bunch of the Waterside management to descend on the terminals to help out?

Even if their skills are only limited to manual work, they could back up the check in staff with some bag handling. Ones that are paid at a rate that would suggest some communication skills could be used to placate passengers.

BA managements present policy of cowering behind locked doors at Waterside, leaving their incompetence to be explained away by junior staff in the terminal is remarkable.

[Skylion]

Having said all that, its not just the management who have to get their act together. The staff have to abandon a host of restrictive working and rostering practices so that the resources are where they need to be when they need to be. The infamous " breakfast breaks" which remove droves of checkin staff from being available in the morning peak are just one. 3 man flight crews on sectors which demand only 2 is another as is the inability to serve meals mid flight during long sector operations .The list is lengthy and hugely undermines effective productivity and the quality of service. BA is a very inward looking organisation. Its attitudes towards customers, particularly foreign ones and those travelling in the rear cabins are patchy. All of its people must refocus on the customer. It doesnt take a large percentage of these to walk before profit becomes loss ( airline profits are mainly wafer thin at best and the traditional carriers simply cant afford their costs). Management and staff at all levels have a role to play, must mutually recognise each others value, stop bitching and get on with giving the customers more than they ever expected.

[eurostar builder]

Radio news states there where 8 flights cancelled today.

[Jet II]

Radio news states there where 8 flights cancelled today.

Ah but thats alright - according to BA mismanagement they were 'Tactical' :uhoh: cancellations.

I see the mismanagement are blaming the length of time it takes for security checks for the present staff shotages (nothing to do with them getting their figures wrong:rolleyes: ) - do none of the other airlines have to put their staff through these checks?

[ABird747]

They're begging for volunteers to help out over the bank holiday weekend... On the intranet theres a phone number and an email address for people to contact...

I'll be going in on Friday and Monday (for what good it'll do) to sit on a check-in desk.

[martinidoc]

And to add my ten penny worth as a loyal BA Gold Card holder.
The service has deteriorated across the board, not just at the back of the aircraft but up front and in the exec lounges too.
I have been forced because BA has withdrawn so many domestic services to use Easy to commute out of NCL to many UK destinations, and I have to say that the punctuality and attitude of the Easy staff puts BA to shame.
A great friend of ours is an ex-BOAC director and he is shocked by how far standards in BA have fallen
With regards to bags, I have not returned from the USA to NCL in my last 6 trips with my bags arriving at the same time, so this is not just a one off weather related problem, and when it occurs the customer support is diabolical, blocked telephone lines etc.
Senior management at BA must take personal responsibility for the atrocious performance and poor morale of its workforce. It is difficult to see how BA can mend so much damage, particualrly to longsuffering and loyal customers like myself, who have persevered, only to see matters detriorate further and further, to a point where I have no confidencee in the airline.
I have decided not to bother even trying to get to London this week because of the chaos.

[Diverse]

I hope martindoc and others who've posted above that this has finally woken a few people up to the fact that BA can no longer justify it's position. I think things can change.

I would like to see a chairman and CEO who gets off their @rses and does something useful, like bang heads together, while taking their salary. Senior managers who behave like leaders, by example and not like either slave masters or cowering whimps in Waterworld.

If they spend some of this profit they supposedly made in the last quarter on making sure there is enough staff to do the job and enough facilities to get the pax and a/c off the ground and to their destinations properly then the company can turn a profit because if we treat people properly they will work for you and customers will buy your goods. That's all we have to do.

I'm not saying we can spend our way out of this problem but BA's reputation is in tatters and that is going to affect the bottom line for years to come (if we're lucky). The reputation is gone and I'm not sure how long it will take to get it back but it's going to need a lot of work and it's also going to need spokespeople and a PR department which doesn't belittle peoples plight when things go wrong and come out with the mealy mouthed words MS came out with the other day. Passengers and staff want results not apologies.


We currently have a board and senior management who need to wake up and quick.

[Jet II]

I see that BA's latest 'cunning plan' to avoid chaos over the Bank Holiday weekend is to 'merge flights':uhoh:

A BA spokesman said the flight programme would be subject to " constant review" over the next few days.

She said: "We may merge some flights to ease the stress on the system.

"We will contact passengers in advance to explain what we are doing."

BA is bringing in managersand other staff to try and avert yet more cancellations over the holiday break but it is now quite clear the company fears this emergency measure will not be enough to keep all scheduled services operating.



Is this any way to run an airline :mad:

[Dogma]

There is a total lack of leadership in B.A.

No one I know feels valued or the worlds favorite.

Pity, as I have more than the hours, type, etc. but have no intention of even applying in responce to their recent advert.:(

[Diverse]

Jet II, I do hope when the dust settles after this weekend that this company has a major shakeup. We're not actually running an airline any more we're just staggering from one crisis to another.

[Jet II]

Diverse, I'm with you on that, but somehow I doubt anything will change. The chaos may get even worse when EWS becomes fully online.

[ABird747]

With any luck someone will wake up one morning, have a lucid moment and think "perhaps we'll scrap EWS and sue SAP to try and recoup some of the financial losses incurred due to their system being CR@P.

[Diverse]

I wish I could agree with ABird747 that this whole thing is about EWS to see the engineers work frustrated because of a computer system is depressing.

It's also about staff shortage, lack of forsite on the part of management, lack of investment in the company, lack of leadership, support, business acumen.
I wish I could see a way around these problems. There are enough flightcrew, engineers, ground staff, office staff and cabin crew who can see what's wrong, we can all see what is wrong with our departments but the staff at the 'coal face' are never listened to.

When the ' hits the fan we are made to feel guilty for not helping out in the company's time of need. I don't mind helping out if we've had violent storms,(like 1987, or October 2000), I don't mind going in to help out if the place is flooded or in times of tragedy like on 11/9/2001, these are things nobody could see coming, these times are when people pull together.

I feel very uneasy about helping the company out because it cannot have the foresite to see that it might be a bit busy on a bank holiday in August.

The only comfort I can take from all this is that at least Cathay survived the helming of Capt.Skippy. Just hope we can.

I'm going to stop posting now, I just find it too frustrating:mad:

No More Excuses lets do it all properly.

[PAXboy]

Whilst I agree that BA now offers a varied and unpredictable service, this shoul dnot be a surprise.

Firstly, because BA is now a very old company. It claims it's roots to The Empire Flying Boats and onwards through BOAC and the politically inspired muck up of the merger with BEA. ANY company has a finite time at the top before it fails. Look at Marks & Spencer, they are also in their end game and will not exist in anything like their present form within ten years.

Secondly, modern management is about cutting cost, eventually you have cut so much (so called) fat that there is nothing left. That is fine when it runs 'ok' but when it does not, there is no fat to fall back on. BA has just fallen on the moment - and not for the first time!

Lastly, look outside the airline world and realise that almost all modern 'management' operates this way and that companies are in a similar jam. Blair is trying to run the country on modern mgmt and has the same problem.

BA rise again? No. Not in this form. Not because it is BA but bcause humans don't work that way! In fact, the sooner the downfall the better, then we can get on to the next iteration of the company.

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Carnage Matey!]

No point trying to sue SAP, they washed their hands of the project some time ago because BAs programmers were messing about with the software too much. Another triumph for the third rate programmers known as IM?

[Ranger One]

Latest from BBC includes the following gem:

'BA office staff have been asked to volunteer to work in the terminals over the weekend, including Mr Eddington and 11 other directors. '

Directors working check-in? :uhoh:

Short of staff, low morale, aircraft going tech, 'merged' flights, bank holiday, *and* a media circus reporting on Eddington & co. totally fubaring the check-in desks...

My deepest sympathies. You're doomed. Doomed!

R1

[Jet II]

I don't think you'l see Eddington on the check-in desks - as I understand it he will be manning the First Class Lounge ;)

[ABird747]

He'd better be careful the terminal staff don't lock the doors and give him a good kicking that he won't forget.

I did a few hours on a desk this morning (and it all came flooding back to me why it was that I turned down promotion and left!) and the staff are so fed up that giving him and those other bell-ends that sit with him in Waterside a whippin' might be the only thing to put a smile on their faces.

[Winged Lion1]

I was going to stay lurking until Carnage Matey tried to blame EWS on IM.

IM Engineering were thown out by the same Director of Engineering who wanted the SAP system because he didn't understand the existing (now known as Legacy) system.

The original EWS project was insigated and managed by Engineering people who brought in a large number of external contractors.

These contractors had the original plan of unloading an IMS database which needs a heafty mainframe to support it into an Access database on a PC.

IM might not be the best respected department, but I think it very unfair to lay the blame for EWS on IM.

[terrier21]

To answer earlier questions re length of time to train users on PRS:-
I used to do some training for BA on PRS and found that with competant new recruits it should not ntake any longer than one and a half weeks to give them a crash course in the basic fundamentals of PRS what normally takes the most time is security passes and getting up their confidence alone on check-in.
Like with anything new it takes a while for people to get up their confidence to checkin the amounts of passengers in the time that BA are going to need them to!!!

[moku]

It is just me or do the staff at BA seem to forget that the more they disrupt flights the more passengers will switch to different airlines never to fly BA again! It seems it is now the staff who have lost the plot!!

M

[HectorusRex]

Flying loses its allure for Britons
By Ben Fenton
(Filed: 28/08/2004)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/28/nair28.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/08/28/ixnewstop.html

The British airline industry is failing to provide high levels of customer satisfaction and the airports are even worse, a survey for the Telegraph shows today.
British Airways, by far the country's biggest airline, fares poorly in the poll of 4,000 passengers. It has endured a week of damaging publicity over cancelled flights at Heathrow because of staff shortages.
It is rated lower than its main British competitor, Virgin, on almost all counts. Passengers rank it equal to the low-cost Ryanair and Easyjet for punctuality, comfort and baggage handling.
Passengers say it comes bottom of the list for value when compared with its rivals, including bmi, formerly British Midland.
The most telling finding is that its passengers are significantly less satisfied with it than Virgin's are with their carrier and only marginally more than the passengers of low-cost airlines.
The poll will also depress the management at most of the country's airports, which are given the thumbs-down.
Senior BA executives, who will be manning check-in desks at Heathrow today in a show of solidarity with hard-pressed employees during the busiest weekend of the year, will be alarmed that the airline's ratings are as low as Ryanair's and Easyjet's in four of nine categories.
The airline cancelled more flights yesterday, bringing to more than 100 the number hit by the staff shortages.
The survey results will be an additional blow to Rod Eddington, the chief executive of the airline, who will be manning the pumps with 11 other directors.
He joined BA in 2001 at a time when it seemed poised to expand and become dominant in the world market. Since then its fortunes have gone into steep decline.
The survey shows that passengers who fly Virgin are more impressed by its service than the users of Easyjet, BA, Ryanair or bmi in all but two categories.
British Airways said: "We strive to provide the best possible services to our customers at all times.
"Clearly the last week has fallen short of our customers' expectations and for that we offer our sincere apologies."
Sir Richard Branson, who interrupted his Moroccan holiday to comment on the findings, was delighted with them.
He said: "Independent customer surveys are great because they give us feedback from our customers, which is invaluable as it keeps us on our toes. And, let's face it, they are even better when the feedback is this positive."
Ryanair, which yesterday halved fares on many routes, ranked bottom or equal bottom in every category except value for money.
A spokesman said: "Ryanair is Europe's No 1 airline for low fares and our average fare is £27. We give consumers what they want - low fares and great customer service - and the public are voting with their feet."
Easyjet said the survey dispelled the myth that low-cost airlines were inferior to full-service carriers such as BA.
Bmi declined to comment until it had seen the full results of the survey.
None of the airlines will draw comfort from the survey's findings that many British people hate the whole experience of flying.
More than 40 per cent say they do not mind flying but say it is "not much fun", while one in six dislikes flying altogether.
They say they would prefer to avoid Heathrow, Luton, Stansted and Nottingham-East Midlands airports, with Birmingham, Edinburgh and Gatwick faring little better.

[Connex]

I have heard tonight from a serving BA staff member that BA are going to look at compensation issues for those who have been affected by the latest debacle on a "case by case" basis.

Very noble - let's hope that all those poor unfortunates are awarded at least the same as all serving BA Staff are just supposed to have received for services rendered - a nice letter from Mike Street and two FREE Hotline tickets to anywhere in the world. I am informed by my BA friend that this "award" is totally separate from the pay deal which is going through at the moment. Insensitive actions like this, when they become public, are bound to cause controversy.

Any BA staff out there like to comment - true or false?

[Diverse]

They say they would prefer to avoid Heathrow, Luton, Stansted and Nottingham-East Midlands airports, with Birmingham, Edinburgh and Gatwick faring little better.

Their running out of options with airports to fly from if they plan to avoid these.

[LTNman]

TRACEY BOLES Scotland On Sunday, Online, 29/08/04

BRITISH Airways chief executive Rod Eddington has admitted for the first
time that too many check-in staff have been made redundant under cost
saving initiatives implemented after September 11, leading to the scenes of
chaos at Heathrow last week.

Dozens of flights were cancelled because a shortage of check-in staff meant
passengers could not be processed. Eddington said: "I?ll be the first to
admit the cuts were too deep in this area. But we had to do it, we had no
choice. I wouldn?t still be here if we still had £6.5bn worth of debt on
the balance sheet."

Last week he was reported as saying he did not believe the City?s investors
had pushed the airline too hard to make cuts.

Pilots and cabin crew are among the 200 volunteers, including Eddington and
other senior airline executives, drafted in to staff Heathrow check-in
desks and terminals this weekend as the airline strives to avoid a repeat
of last week?s pandemonium over what is the busiest holiday period of the
year.

Eddington promised to conduct a "thorough investigation" into last Monday?s
events when BA was forced to cancel 51 flights, blaming lack of manpower
and technical problems.

The Australian, who has been at the airline since 2000, said it was too
early to say whether management heads would roll over the debacle which
stretched into Tuesday and Wednesday as more flights were axed and queues
built up.

Full story at

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=1011662004

[HectorusRex]

Jobs of British Airways Directors Under Threat, Telegraph Says
Aug. 29 (Bloomberg) --
Three senior directors at British Airways Plc face pressure as Chief Executive Rod Eddington starts an investigation into last week's flight delays, the Sunday Telegraph said, citing an unidentified executive at the airline.

The positions of Mike Street, the airline's director of customer services, and Mervyn Walker, director of U.K. airports, are under threat, the newspaper said. The job of Peter Read, an operations director, is also under threat, the paper said.

Europe's second-biggest airline grounded 60 departing flights last Monday and Tuesday. On Wednesday, four flights were canceled. British Airways has cut 13,000 jobs and slashed costs by 869 million pounds ($1.57 billion) in three years to counter competition from low-cost carriers such as EasyJet Plc.

(Sunday Telegraph 8-29, Business 1)



To contact the reporter on this story:
Richard Blackden on [email protected]

[Runway 31]

What is wrong with the engineering side of BA. Flights cancelled due to defective aircraft, 3 across the pond on one day. A couple of reported diversions in North America in one week.

If all these things were happening with their low cost competitors the Pprune forums would be red hot.

[Carnage Matey!]

I think the Hotline tickets thing is a bit of a red herring as I haven't been offered one. I did hear a rumour that it was Customer Service staff only but I think a rumour is all it is. It would certainly be ironic if the people who threatened to strike and engaged in mass sickies over the last few months received a bonus whilst the people who stayed at work trying to help the customers got nothing.

Nice to read that Mike Streets position is under threat. The airline would be a far more effective and efficient company if we could lose that throwback to the days of nationalised industry. Most of the problems in BA these days can be laid squarely at the door of his bloated, inefficient empire.

The engineering side of BA is struggling with a lack of spares due to a new computer system which is putting a lot of pressure on the engineers to keep as many aircraft servicable as possible. No aircraft means cancellation. The diversions are entireley unrelated. I doubt three technical cancellations in one day at any low cost airline would make the news.

[Runway 31]

How can diversions due to technical defects be unrelated?.

These 2 diversions and the 3 cancellations due to defects all within a couple of days must be related and are symptoms of deficiences with BA. How many BA aircraft are being forced to fly with defects because of these problems?.

[Carnage Matey!]

Can you assure us the diversions were solely due to technical reasons, and can you explain exactly what the technical failures were? I hate to be the one to break it to you but serviceable aircraft break fairly frequently and occasionally they divert. A significant failure in one system does not necessarily relate to an unservicable part of another system and if the aircraft were not safe to fly in accordance with the manufacturers rules they wouldn't be in the air. Most BA aircraft are flying around with defects at the moment, as are most aircraft in any airline. BAs aircraft are flying around with more than usual for BA, but I have no idea what the average is for other operators.

I've just seen todays Sunday Times with a report on the free Hotline tickets for ground staff. Gobsmacking! Seems the way to do business now is to threaten a strike, get a big bonus, reluctantly show up to work, do as little as possible, go home at the end of your shift without going the extra inch to help the customers and award yourself two free tickets! Wish I'd known that yesterday when my flights were disrupted, I could have walked off the flight deck and won a free holiday.

[Runway 31]

What a wonderfull boost to the staff morale to see Eddington and 11 directors on the shop floor greeting passengers. Bet that made them feel good.

[Connex]

Carnage Matey!..

re my post about the Hotline tickets - my friend is a CSA in T4 - I have no reason to doubt his word. Also, apparently, there is something about these ticket awards in today's Sunday Times (I haven't read it myself though). I bet that has pleased the (not-yet-compensated) stranded punters no end!

Just shows what you can get if you put your collective foot down!

[Cattle Class]

Read it here! (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8209-1236763,00.html)

[Max Tow]

According to STimes, staff giveaway will cost 4m. This reaction reminds me of the "we were wonderful" self congratulation from the management to staff after last year's walk-outs. A strange sense of priority yet again which reinforces the impression that certain parts of BA are run for the benefit of those within - one wonders if/when the true victims, the customers, will get similar largesse and whether it might not have been more sensitive to make a gesture in their direction first? Whatever the rights & wrongs, the image is sure taking a self inflicted knock, and shareholders will not put up with this, I suspect.

[terrier21]

compensation for passengers.
can BA really afford this or can they not afford to do it? Either way sell your shares!!!

[AUTOGLIDE]

Hmmm, Used to work at BA and it was imploding even then. Constant cycle of bizarre management creating cycnical defeatist staff. If it wasn't for the human carnage that would result (for the staff) i'd love to see the end of BA. It might open up a few slots at LHR also. Problem is most airlines seem to just as bad as far as managemant/morale goes.

[Jet II]

Interesting letter in todays Times from GEOFFREY C. LLOYD,
Research Fellow, University of Wales.

In early 1997, I carried out PhD research into staff/management attitudes in 34 UK companies, including British Airways. I sent the results to the then Chief Executive, Bob Ayling, but heard nothing further.

I quote from my research findings at BA:

The figure that should cause the most concern is the 87 per cent of the workforce that considered that management had not earned their loyalty. This was the highest figure shown from any of the 34 FT 100 companies that took part in the survey. A further 70 per cent did not believe management practised its stated values.

It appears that the airline is still failing its shareholders, customers and its greatest asset, its staff, and will continue to to do so until management accepts that it must engage with staff at all levels in all aspects of the business.



If an outsider could see the problems within BA 7 years ago, begs the question what the Board have been doing in the meantime.

[HZ123]

The company lacks direction and leadership. Line management are unwilling or unable to challenge custom and practices that have become worst not better. We seem to be getting more like Marks & Spencer trying to flog questionable quality and styles to people that aren't that interested in the product and can get elsewhere for less. The status enjoyed by both companies has virtually evaporated.

Further compounded when I see we are using a 'Titan' 737 today to cover shortfalls.

[Runway 31]

Good to see the staff getting taken care of while the passengers have to fight for compensation

[ABird747]

Further compounded when I see we are using a 'Titan' 737 today to cover shortfalls.

We've been using the Titan 737 for a couple of days...

[Lost_luggage34]

I am so glad I made a very difficult decsion some years ago now.

I could see the 'implosion' starting to gather pace back then.

Great admiration for those on the front line keeping the ship afloat as it were.

[ABird747]

Good to see the staff getting taken care of while the passengers have to fight for compensation

It is isn't it? Makes a change, usually the frontline staff are the last ones to get recognised for the hard work they put in day to day.

[towerview]

The BA debacle will probably end up as a stock MBA case study in years to come. Hope it will be a story of the company succeeding in spite of management decisions in August 2004.

[Rollingthunder]

This appears to be one seriously screwed up airline at the moment. Cancel LHR JFK. Was that a chosen decision?

"BA has cancelled a further six flights on Tuesday, as investigations continue into last week's travel disruption.
Staff shortages and technical problems led BA to cancel over 100 flights last week, angering passengers at Heathrow.

The latest cancellations are return trips from Heathrow to New York, Brussels and Zurich. " 31Aug04

[zed3]

Trouble is it's not the first and won't be the last . It's a question of modern 'management' syndrome . All will be revealed one day when it is realised that someone having studied and with the paperwork , doesn't really understand the line of work he is supposed to be manageing - that and when all the accountants are pushed back into the box .
Roll on retirement - a sad day whan an aviation lover says that!

[Stirling]

Have read all comments with great interest. As a BA 'insider' I agree with most comments, but will have to defend certain operational decisions.

1.Covering the programme. A number of long and short haul sectors have been cancelled over the next three months. We also have a Titan B737-300 and shortly and Iberian A320 to cover domestic and Spanish routes respectively. This will assist the operation threefold 1.It will give the operation a far more robust look. 2.It will (hopefully) mean BA will be able to deliver a better service to our flagging and disheartened customers. 3.It will assist the engineering department in addressing the (now stable) high levels of outstanding ADDs.

These steps have had to be taken for a number of reasons including, but not limited to, EWS and staff shortages. Without these steps, the bad press and day to day operational disruption would have catastrophic.

2.EWS/SAP. Awful system. As tends to be the norm, the frontline staff were not involved at the decision making stage to bring this system in. It was not designed to be and never has been an aviation based tool, and we are suffering tremendously because of this. The real concern is that a very small percentage of what the system was bought to do has been launched. I am convinced EWS will be visited on other threads.

3.Hotline reward for staff. While I am one of the lucky ones that qualify for this unecessary gesture, I do not understand the companies logic and do not agree with this incentive. Rewarded for doing our jobs? Thought that was what a salary was for. As is stated in The Times, the routes that tend to be available for staff (especially such a high number that will be looking to book) will tend to be the routes where you not necessarily wish to travel to, or travel to destinations out of season. Think it prudent to keep these things in check, although yet again BAs timing was to perfection and clearly antagonised a large number of customers.

I will not comment on the management within BA. I must stress I am not one of them and certainly, at this time, have no aspirations to become one. Suffice to say that every single one is presently looking over their shoulder!

[HZ123]

No inspiration and little leadership may yet lead to a collapse of BA.