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View Full Version : Britain spends too little on its forces, says poll


Mr C Hinecap
23rd Aug 2004, 05:17
From the Telegraph

The majority of people believes that the Government is spending too little on defence and that the Armed Forces are overstretched and under-equipped, says an opinion poll conducted for the Telegraph.

Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, is widely blamed for the state of the forces, with only 14 per cent of those polled believing that he is doing a good job. Only 18 per cent believe that Labour can be trusted to support the forces.

Half of those questioned in the YouGov poll opposed moves to amalgamate famous-name regiments such as the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders and the Black Watch into larger units.

The poll follows last month's defence cuts, in which 22,000 service jobs were axed.

The Royal Navy is to lose a dozen major ships. The RAF is to lose four front-line squadrons and more than 100 aircraft and the Army is to lose four battalions and 100 tanks. More cuts are expected to follow.

Mr Hoon has ordered senior officers and civil servants to avoid describing the widespread loss of men and equipment as defence cuts, insisting that they were "a rebalancing" that will improve military capabilities.

The poll found that 86 per cent of those questioned believe that the defence chiefs should be criticising the cuts. The vast majority did not believe they should resign in protest but 55 per cent felt they should be openly critical.

Mr Hoon has warned the defence chiefs that anyone taking such action will be forced into early retirement.

Asked specifically whether they believe that British or American troops were performing better in Iraq, the poll revealed that only three per cent backed the Americans with 77 per cent backing the British forces.

Nicholas Soames, the shadow defence secretary, said: "I welcome the findings of this poll and I'm not surprised by the results. For the first time in many years the public realise that military issues are very important."

Mr Soames said he agreed that too little was spent on defence and that the forces were suffering from overstretch.

But he was surprised that Mr Hoon's approval rating was 14 per cent. He said: "I would have thought it would be about two per cent. It certainly would not be any higher than that within the Armed Forces."

Bruce George, the Labour MP who chairs the Commons defence committee, said he agreed that military funding was too low.

He said: "The Government cannot expect the Armed Forces to respond effectively to its demands if the level of defence expenditure is not rising adequately.

"Most people who read the newspapers would agree that our forces are overstretched and under-funded."

allan907
23rd Aug 2004, 10:47
With the collapse of tbe Berlin Wall and the onset of Glasnost and the fall of the Soviet Empire those of us who could see the writing on the wall did the decent thing and left rather than try to bolster a crumbling system (remember, the Conservatives were in power then!).

This exodus removed a very large number of very able people in all 3 Services, leaving the, perhaps, not so able - but very ambitious - people behind. With the competition gone these people who would have been 'also rans' in any other day and age rose relatively rapidly to the top. These people are now the Chiefs of a very shaky system indeed.

(At this point I would reassure readers that my spleen is not being vented on those who were at the beginning, or even median junior officer points, of their careers when the 'evil empire' collapsed and 'drawdowns' began).

Having conned their way to the top how many believe that these Chiefs now have the welfare of their Service at heart and WILL contest the latest Hoon dictates? My money is none. There are quite a few Gp Capts, Air Cdres and upwards who I would give you nothing for having seen the backstabbing and fawning that they did as sqn ldrs and junior wg cdrs.

Guys (and gals) the news is that........your Service is NOT in good hands!

Scud-U-Like
23rd Aug 2004, 11:33
Very heartening, I'm sure, but the poll doesn't tell us much, other than public support for the armed forces is high, which I think we knew already.

What the poll also tells us is that, when it comes to putting hand in pocket, the taxpayer does not support much of a deviation from the staus quo.

When it comes to public expenditure, the sacred cows of education and the NHS are always going to win over defence, so, I doubt we can expect any great shift in spending from the current pot.

BEagle
23rd Aug 2004, 12:07
"Mr Hoon has ordered senior officers and civil servants to avoid describing the widespread loss of men and equipment as defence cuts, insisting that they were "a rebalancing" that will improve military capabilities."

Is that really true? Did that slimy $od really 'order' such a thing?

UTTER ar$e!

Archimedes
23rd Aug 2004, 15:56
Pity that Buff failed to order people not to tell the press that he'd given them this order - so he now looks even more duplicitous (if that's possible).

BigGrecian
24th Aug 2004, 14:47
Q : Do they think more should be spent on the Forces?
A: Yes

Q : Would you be willing to pay more in taxes to do this?
A : No

Its all about more for/with less.

mbga9pgf
24th Aug 2004, 17:10
Perhaps people are trying to say that we pay enough already in taxes, but due to the current numerous vastly expensive programmes (modernisation of the railways at horrendous expense, Rediculous budget for benefits, compensation for idiots who slip on pavements, increase in overall beaurocracy costs) they would somehow prefer it if some of the money was better spent in our area, considering how unbelievably good value we are...

WE Branch Fanatic
24th Aug 2004, 20:36
The defence budget is roughly 6% of Government spending. Therefore substantail increases in percentage terms) could be a drop in the ocean compared to spending overall.

Increasing the current defence budget by 10% would only increase overall Government expenditure by 0.6%.

tmmorris
25th Aug 2004, 13:42
Actually if you read the poll details you'll find that 45% of people would pay more tax for the armed forces, if it was guaranteed to go to them. Only 46% said they wouldn't. See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/08/23/narmy23big.gif (you need to register (free) to view this).

The Lib Dems use similar poll results to justify their policy of increasing tax to spend on education. I wonder if increased defence spending will become a Lib Dem policy...?

Tim

pr00ne
25th Aug 2004, 14:26
tmmorris,

There have been numerous legal attempts by indivudual UK tax payers to try and ensure that THEIR tax payments are NOT spent on anything connected with the military or defence.

I think if such a scheme as you suggest WERE to be made possible, then it would have to work both ways and far more people would insist that their tax was NOT spent on defence than would be the contrary.

However, let's face it, noone is going to introduce such a scheme who is remotely likely ever to hold the reins of power in this country.