Questions about CAL...$30K bond true???

[waytan]

Hi, I just applied to China Airlines after finding out they changed the requirements and now a type rating is NOT required.
But this was before I read all the pprune comments about CAL. Now I am a little worried. Can someone please clarify some of the things i have read.

Q#1. for non-type rated...a $30,000US bond....how is this handled? re-paid?over how long?

Q#2 looking at sitting in right seat for 4 years plus, while other less qualified nationals move into left seat?

Q#3. pay does not start at the commencement of training?

Q#4. english schools too expensive/cannot afford on CAL salary?

Q#5. can the wife work?

thanks for the info, i look forward to some real answers.
Waytan

[International Trader]

Despite what others will write after this, this is the the truth from someone who has been a passive and uneffected observer.
I do work there as a captain and I am an expatriate.
I believe that there are those who will try to talk the place up because they are having trouble getting people (guess who ?) and those that are angry about the way things are.
Neither group will change things at CAL, that is for sure.

I have heard ( only heard) that the bonds will be changed to Singapore type bank guarantees thanks to CPt Pow ( ex SIA).
This will cost you money even if you stick the contract out.

The new promotion criteria favours national pilots over expatriates, always.
The MIN time is 3 years after training and 150 landings at CAL to get into a command pool . Every time a local enters the pool, he will move ahead of you and all other expats.
On the log haul fleets you don't get many landings so, expect about 7 years to get 150 landings. Then it is in the pool.
There ARE guys here with more than 5 years and no command and that was before the new requirements.

They only pay you after you get checked out.
Forget english schools on an F/O salary unless you only have 1 child and you live cheaply.
The standard of living is definitely below western countries.
Legally your wife can work, once you get your ARC ( work permit)
Making inroads into the culture is fairly difficult. Unless your wife can find a foreign company who wants a foreigner, it will be tough.
Let's face it most companies will want someone who can do business within the culture,ie; speak, read and or write Chinese.
Speaking English and just a bit of Chinese, I find it tough doing just about any administrtive task. Even ordering in restaurants is tough. Local pay is quite low and they work long hours.

I would not even consider putting my family through this and I get a lot more money.
I hear that there are about 7 cruise captains and F/Os who are leaving at once because of the politics and not promotion. One said the other day that management told him to leave because it was their plan never to give promotions but use exapatriate F/Os to babysit the nationals.

I hear that there are new start ups in Singapore. A much better place to be that is for sure.

[Deske1]

CAL wrote to me,that the bond for B744 is 15.000 usd for 3 years.
And dont need any bank guarantee.

[waytan]

Thanks International Trader for the very informative and honest answers. Those were the answers i was afraid to hear but sort of knew about through gossip.
I was wondering about your opinion (and any others) what you think about going to CAL as a "stepping stone"....in other words, not going there looking for a life time career but a way to get a type rating and some jet time. What do you think?
thanks Waytan

[sky330]

I concur with most what Trader said.
Moving your family, should be ok IF you don't have chidren. Your wife can stay in TPE, and you can go the south of the Island (some quite nice places) or overseas when you have more than one night in TPE. With children in school age, it is difficult IMHO.
These last months, I have been 10 days/months in TPE and that's included the day of departure and arrival!!
So either in Taiwan or overseas, your wife is in effect waiting for your home leave.

I would really not recommend Cal for a f/o if you can find something else, esspecially if you are not experienced. True, it will give you a type rating and some hours on paper but most of it will be sleeping in the bunk. Don't expect to 'learn' something usefull or build up experience here.
So you may end up with the type rating and the hours but a professionnal level low enough to fail the sim ride in any serious airline.....

[International Trader]

Waytan.

I honestly think that you will do much better elsewhere.
You will not really learn anything here and the poor reputation will follow you.
The 747 endorsement will lock you into freight work only in a few years. My advice, go Airbus.
There are new starters in Sinagpore and China are looking for people at present . I would even consider paying for the ensorsement with a good company and then you are free to leave if you want or move to bigger aircraft as they expand.
Once you have some experience I would look at Dragonair.
I have been told that the pay is very good.
Of course if you can get in to the best companies like Cathay or SIA, you have a career.
Good luck!

[waytan]

Geez, where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
So, No China Air...but Air China? or a few of the other asian airlines okay? It seems like the ex pats move to these countries for a better job opportunity and life but from what i have heard, it doesn't seem the case for many (except for the Cathay guys). Then again, north america(and the rest of the english speaking world) is so bleak too...it is bad all around for all. Any advice for high hours/highly skilled turbo prop guys who just want to fly the big jets. Or is a career change in order??? Is there a light??

[rdr]

Some truth in what int. trader says. Singapore is probably the only place in the Asia where the white expat is treated better than the local, still.
However there is a very active desire there to cap salaries for all in the long run. The gov. there fancies itself as the market leader to put them pilots in their place. But stupid they are not. There has been a considerable shift in their strategy of late as it sinks in that there is a looming shortage around the region. You may realise that the situation now for work seems to be very fluid and in my opinion, waiting a while and keeping your eyes open could be a good thing.

[etops777]

why should the expat be treated better then local? and true vice-versa. I think we should all be treated equally regardless of race.

i am one of the local pilot that was with them for 6 years and decided to leave for a greener pasture. the moral there is rock bottom low that i would not even consider flying for them, unless you are in danger of being furlough.

need more info send PM

cheers

[Edward555]

I would like to know what the implications of a Taiwanese or Chinese? license is. Is it recognised in other jurisdictions? Say you work for CAL for awhile....what happens if after a few years you want to go somewhere else, like Europe, and you show up after flying for CAL? (Assuming of course that you could work in Europe..) Just wondering...

[E.P.]

Licence, medical, and endorsement (if conducted in Taiwan) is not worth a cent. Not ICAO recognised. :bored:

[BritishGuy]

Can someone tell me what the minimum requirements are at CAL?? And will an FAA Ticket do. Thanks. I have 1000hours and 100 muti.....All piston I'm afraid.

[RFN]

BG,

You may be in luck.

The word on the street is that CAL are looking at low time new CPL holders who will be happy to work for next to nothing to get a few jet hrs up as S/O etc... Just don't expect any improvement on that and you'll be content for a few months anyway! However, its NOT a long term career option.

If you get a look-in at a recognized ailrine that WILL look after you, your options are clear-cut.

The web link is www.china-airlines.com. Search around and you should find the min hrs requirement. Even if your hrs are below the min, try anyway as SE Asia will be experiencing a pilot shortage very soon, especially experienced Airbus pilots.

We've all be there, so best of British luck old boy.

RFN

[BritishGuy]

Hmmmm-well RFN thanks for the heads up. I've been to the website and haven't seen anything S/O's on there.

Also, is there a difference in faxing/emailing a CV across to them or is it best to ONLY use the online CV management thingie??

I want to put a CV in, but not sure if it's the S/O or F/O position I apply for as nothing in the website says anythign about an S/O position.

Any help here would be appreciate!! Thx.

[waytan]

dear RFN
asia will have a pilot shortage? how do you come to this conclusion? is that the same as the story in canada...they always say there is going to be a pilot shortage (in canada)but i haven't seen it in the last 8 years that i have been flying.
or do you mean that there will be a lack of interest from expats to fly in these asian countries over the next few years due to poor conditions and treatment?
also, are most people flying in asia there because they cannot get a job in their home country???

[bushpilot2004]

Hello,

I applied to CAL today; 45 years old, 4300 hrs. Currently on the EMB 120 at a Regional in the US, several thousand hours flying piston in Alaska before this. Anybody getting called for an interview?If so, what are your times/experience? Also, is commuting a possibility with this job? Any info much appreciated!

[sky330]

Also, is commuting a possibility with this job?

Yes, it is possible, pending where you live exactly. Your profile says USA so it should not be a problem, after the last flight before your home leave jump on the first flight for the States. Between the pax and cargo flights, there is quite a lot of possibilities. You have to warned several days in advance due to TSA stupidity (correction security) regulations, but for the rest it is quite straigth forward. One of the nice point of working for China.

On A340 or B744, it may be possible to be based in the States, but I don't know the details.

Hopes to see you around soon

[bumboclot]

Hi,

I've been trying to use CAL's online resume program for over a week now, but everytime I try and load the page "current jobs" or "resume management", the page just comes up blank. Anyone else having problems with this site? Do I have to change my internet settings or something?

Thanks

[bushpilot2004]

Bumboclot,

Yes, I did have alot of problems with the online system. I tried from home for several weeks; finally went to Kinko's (a 24 hr copy place if you don't live in the US). They had a computer geek that knew how to scan my photo and documents and upload them to the internet- he made it look easy. Hope this helps!

[sky330]

Never try the resume part but as a rule all China Airlines web sites are Windows and Internet Explorer ONLY, your problem come maybe from that ??

W$ javascript sucks and the lame webmaster that used it sucks even more!

[bumboclot]

Thanks for the replies! I'm using windows and IE, but still doesn't work at all. Oh well guess I'll have to just mail in a CV.

[borntoflytoday]

While were discussing financial matters of CAL:

Something to be clearup about the China Airlines contract for those considering direct entry pilot positions;

Beware China Airlines may state in your contract you receive 2 months / yr retirement fund.
This needs clarifying: unless you CONTINUOSLY work for CAL until you turn 55yrs AND have completed 15 years of service (or turned 60yr) you will not receive any retirement fund.

Govt legislature enshrines this and amendments to govt retirement policy next year will not change things considerably.

In otherwords if your young and leave the company after your 5 year contract, the contractually promised retirement fund (2mth/yr) will not be.

:yuk:

[McDoo the Irish Navigator]

Waytan;

You say you have good time, what about Westjet? You're Cdn and have 4000 hrs.
All new gear and realistically, you could be 22 -24 months from date of hire to the left seat of a glass ship. Its not just regional flying anymore, we're flying to 8 countries now, ETOPS is on the way, and you can expect to see HNL and LGW in the next couple of years.
Don't listen to what the bad guys say about our pay, we do just fine thank you very much. Most importantly we've made a profit every quarter since 1996, the pay goes in the bank on time.

[CFIT]

Back to the subject of training bond. Since there seem to be quite a few resignations prior to the contract completion both at Chaina Airline and EVA, did these guys just ran from having to pay the bond? I've heard that the training bond is only enforcable in Taiwan, could someone please confirm this? Of course, by doing this, you won't be able to accept future employment back in this country. :confused:

[bound_for_dubai]

Yea but Asia is a great place for young single pilots who want to make some money and get some jet time. If I had to go to Taiwan (and I plan to), I'd take Eva Air over China Airlines. Way better airline!

Oh and I believe the minimum contract is 3 years for F/O and 5 years for Captain and within those year you pretty much have the money for your endorsement subtracted. Should you leave before your contract expires you just pay the remining oweing.

[Medwin]

bumboclot,
i have the same problem. i sent them my resume and they email me back and told me that they are very empressed with my resume and told me that i have to apply online. so i went back to their website and filled up the 1st page and when i click submit i always get the message that the website i'm looking for is unavailable.:{

[DeltaT]

People are mentioning Singapore as a better option, can you please list the ones to try for non rated people trying to get a break?!