SA PC-12 Lost?!

[Foxcotte]

Strong rumors abound of a SA registered PC12 flying in East Africa with no local briefing, pretty much lost, no frequency research and not even a basic ONC map, let alone a local area map! Apparently top paying VIP clients - doesn't this sound like a near repetition of the Metro into Mt Kenya last year?

There's got to be someway of putting ego aside and getting some proper local briefing & info - even if it is from some guy in a lowly C206 or C182. Or am I missing something? :ugh: :confused:

[perceval]

well there was another PC 12 , from SA as well that ended up in the ngongs around 97-98 as well .Seems that they are making a habit of puncturing kenyan mountains .Where is that plane flying at the moment ?
Anywhere near me ?

[B Sousa]

Percy.
I remember that one. I was up at Wilson with the most Ignamimous HRH Mr G.B..... Factory plane scud running to get into Wilson. Did some Cumulo Granite at speed. Came to a most sudden stop converting itself to Paint on the Rocks. Extremely similar to the Mt Kenya mess last year. Another sad one with no justification.
A pilot running around Zamboonland with out maps and radio freqs is indeed not worthy to have such a nice aircraft..

[gofor]

2 other sources of the metro accident below

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96756&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131663&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

I also note FOXCOTTE's disregard for fellow pilots preperations. We live in a professional environment and should respect one another and be open and forthcoming with information to prevent similar accidents. Slatting fellow professionals is an extremely low blow. I have found that by being extrovert in my dealings with fellow aviators has only been beneficial to myself and has opened many career oportunities. Being self minded, cynical and an aviating recluse will only get you stuck in a rutt complaining!

[Foxcotte]

This particular PC12 was first "found" in Samburu lost and rescued by a PPL in a C182, and then headed gamely off to find an airstrip called "masai mara" - not knowing there are about 20 airstrips in this 30mile area all with different names! Ended up literally landing at one to ask directions in the middle (and crossing tracks, take off paths and landing aircraft) of peak traffic time!! Last heard of heading to Dar Es Salaam (sorry Percy!).

And as for slagging off fellow professional aviators - I'd rather say something cautionary now than wait to hear for another fatal CFIT! He was given considerable local help to help get him out of situations he should never have been in the first place!! Every time a visitor flies into one of our few mountains, our airspace is slated in the press as unsafe, and we get hammered with another rule, requirement, restriction or expensive addition to the equipment list.

Situational and positional awareness is something we should all have all the time - whether in a cheap homebuilt or a million dollar VIP bizjet. This guy was lucky, the last one wasn't - here's hoping this is at least a "heads up" to avoid being the next one!

[Cardinal Puff]

Got to go with Foxcotte on this one.

You wouldn't believe what goes through the airspace in it's own little world and disregarding any outside influence. I blame the GPS myself as it's now too easy to leave home without the appropriate maps but with the little box in the nav bag.

I've run into folks who didn't know freqs, callsigns, map ref or anything but requested them on air while inbound to a strip. These were all so called "professional pilots".

[Notes]

I too heard this guy in the PC 12. It was ZS-AGI, yes he was lost and asking for help. I listened to various local pilots trying to help him help himself. He was very upset because he had flown to the coordinates that his 'clients/agent' had given him and there was "no runway there" And yes he was not embarrased to declare that he had no maps or ONC charts. (Who needs them when one has such a nice glass cockpit????) He didn't know which airstrip out of about 10 to15, covering 30-40 miles, he was looking for. Said he was planning to identify it by the fact there should be a vehicle waiting on it......

All of the relevant airstrip info, co-ords etc are available from the Kenya AIP, and most are also in the Jepp. The glass cockpit couldn't help because all the strips have individual names - he was looking for one called "Mara".

I reckon this guy desrves a bit of flak.... If he had pranged, Kenyan aviation, as usual would suffer a hit to its safety record.

[Christo]

That aircraft was only registered for the first time in Jan 2004, owner changed 13 Jan 2004, a brand new airie!

[planecrazi]

Very unproffesional of such a pilot.

I believe this would be in contravention of the ANR's in my old days. Navigational charts/equipment are required by law for the area you are operating in.:*

[Rat Catcher]

Foxcotte, welcome to PPRuNe!
Obviously those conversations we had the other day with "he who shouldn't drink certain types of Sangria" struck a cord!
I think gofor overflew the waypoint somewhat.
:rolleyes:
People who fly into a country they "don't know" with coordinates for a place from some one they "don't know" will always end up in a situation where they "don't know" where they are... notice any words appearing more than once??
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
I don't think you are slagging off this "oak" and if he takes it as such he may learn something. :E :E :E
As someone who lands at the Mara airstrip regularly, the last thing you need is some :mad::mad::mad::mad: bumbling around in his glass cockpit without a ****ing clue where he is going and probably going at a rate of knots into the bargain.
Enjoy flying for a living, at least you have a map
:E :E

[gofor]

Reply for Foxcotte and RC. I am all for local knowledge - albeit somewhat a bit of a luxury for someone not local and goes up on a first time charter! I do agree with your posts and am all for anything to prevent such disasters. While on the subject of protecting the reputation of Kenyan aviation yor atc's should not be in the habit of running off as well as the gov there losing vital transcripts in aviation investigations. I have done the JNB-NRB at night in an a/c unable to climb above MSA routed around storms that frequent there and followed airoutes to join the NRB star from the DAR end. As for being unproffessional - word gets around pretty quick in our circles and these guys(refering to PC12) tend to stagnate- not much you can do to help.

As for missing the waypoint - I passed o/head and have moved on.

[perceval]

To expand a bit on the previous ,
Another story :
Last week I was flying from sero to lake manyara , followed by a second airplane ; at about 12 NM we spotted an opposite Traffic converging , We tried to raise him on 118.2 with no success and basically turned to avoid him .No big deal-good VFR day , but i advised my colleagues behind .After a bit of trial and error they got him on Kili frequency , told him about the Common traffic frequency and avised him of their position .As he was going to Ngorongoro , The cpt of our second airplane asked him if he had been there before :no ; If he knew the runway :no ; Any infos about it at all : no,I'll see when i get there .So he (our cpt ) decided to give him a full briefing which was probably useful (ngoro can be a bit tricky) but passed all but unnoticed by the pilot of that aircraft (V5-... flown by an Afrikaans) .The only thanks was in the style of : I'll be OK.
Flying in a foreign airspace requires a bit of prep, in my opinion .At least when you reach your 1st point of entry , there is generally an AIP available , possibly local pilots hovering about ...
Asking a few questions never hurt .
The only thing we are all saying is :East Africa differs a lot from Southern Africa and It is not a big deal for a pilot to admit limited knowledge of a previously unknown area (we are not psychics after all ) .So , to all foreign pilots private and professionnals , please feel free to come and chat so we all have a better time up there next time , that's all .

[Firefly7]

I think that if you where to go on a flight to a area that you dont know and all that you got was lat's and long's What could you have do ?
I have landed lost of time at nearby airports to find out where the place is ;) Its all ways easeyer to say that he or she should have done ! but when it happens to you its always diffrent, most of the time you make a plane and live to tell the tail
I am flying in Ugand,DRC,Cameroon, and I help most of the people that are going into new strips
fly safe:ok:

[Notes]

Hey Perceval,

This V5.... guy is in Kenya now, I advise everyone in the area to keep there heads down.......