Sleep study prompts new pilot fatigue rules

[Transition Layer]

Sorry to steal Wirraway's thunder, but thought this might raise some interesting points for discussion...



Sleep study prompts new pilot fatigue rules

Sydney Morning Herald, Saturday 21 August 2004

By Joseph Kerr, Transport Reporter

The rules that stop exhausted pilots flying are out of date, riddled with "legally indefensible" exemptions and not based in science, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority says.

Four years after the problem was identified by a federal parliamentary committee, the authority is moving to introduce a modern system to handle pilot fatigue. It could be another five years before new safety rules are in place.

For 50 years, Australian pilots have had limits on how many hours they can work, a CASA discussion paper on fatigue says.

Maximum hours varied greatly between aviation operators. Exemptions were often granted to airlines if the limits did not suit their line of work, such as those flying long distances.

But simply limiting the hours a pilot flew did not take into account other factors that added to fatigue and the consequent decline in pilot reaction time and alertness, the paper found.

Instead of these limits, CASA supports a system where airlines could develop plans to show how they manage fatigue among their pilots, taking in as many factors as possible.

A pilots' tiredness could increase as a result of the type of work being done, the amount of good quality sleep they had, the time since they last slept, and how many time zones they crossed on a flight.

Circadian rhythms also influenced alertness, the paper found, as they "effectively program individuals to be asleep during the night and awake during the day".

In 2000, a federal parliamentary inquiry recommended CASA introduce a modern fatigue management system for the aviation sector. In 2001, CASA stopped issuing new exemptions from the rules because they "may not be scientifically defensible", and "it could be argued they were legally indefensible" if not proved safe.

A research fellow at the Centre for Sleep Research at the University of South Australia, Greg Roach, said "one of the factors that will have to be taken into account is the effect of time zone changes".

Under the new system, "an organisation will need to demonstrate to the regulator that they have a system in place that ensures that they are taking steps to manage fatigue", he said.

Dr Roach said the quality of rest facilities available to pilots, particularly on long-haul international routes, could be a factor that companies would take into account.

This could lead to deals being struck between airlines and hotels so that rooms occupied by pilots were not cleaned at times that disturbed their rest, he said. "Pilots ... might be sleeping during the day."

The pilots' association, Qantas and CASA were all involved with the Centre for Sleep Research in research projects examining pilot fatigue, he said.

One study was looking at how much sleep pilots got when they flew on international flights.

Over 30 months, 7000 days of data had been collected on the habits of about 300 international pilots, using diaries and activity monitors strapped to their wrists to monitor their sleep.

A second study is putting Qantas pilots through flight simulation trials in Sydney, comparing the operational performance of pilots who have returned from international flights with that of rested crews.

The discussion paper, designed to prompt responses from industry, said it may take up to five years to implement the new system.



As an aside, do you think the reporter is known to his mates as Joe?
;)

TL

[air-hag]

My theory:

Flying makes you tired.

[Capt Fathom]

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

'50, 40, 30, 20, 10, Oops, bugger!' :{

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[dirtylittlefokker]

Good one Fathom.

Worse " 50.....10...:O "

[gaunty]

I get really tired of reading my bank statements, supporting my childrens telecommunications habits, never having control of the remote, waiting behind the bejewelled and becoiffed lady flaunting a LVH handbag, with a trolley full of stuff in the 10 items or less cash only queue, pretending she can't read English and insisting on paying by credit card, :rolleyes: sitting behind (other) Volvo drivers, enjoying the "savings" instituted by the power company by me having to sit patiently
for several hours listening toa recording to tell 'em my power is out to be told I'll get fined $10,000 if I run my aircon during a power shortage. :mad:

Nah, I reckon send me down the line on any roster you like, it has to be better than staying home.:p

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Circadian rhythms also influenced alertness, the paper found, as they "effectively program individuals to be asleep during the night and awake during the day".

Yeah, those freaking cicada's sure do keep you awake! Noisy bastards!

"If in doubt, turn off the lights"

[Chimbu chuckles]

Hmm now lessee...a week or three ago I was trying to get some afternoon sleep in a ME port before an 8 hr sector...the 'Privacy Requested' light was illuminated outside my hotel room door and no-one tried to clean my room...unfortunately the people who would normally be tasked with said job were cleaning other rooms all up and down the hallway...and some kids ran up and down screaming as only kids can do...so no sleep to be had.

At a different hotel we stay in.the double glasing works quite well if you have a street facing room...not so well if your room faces a courtyard where the noise cannot escape...and the double glasing seems ineffective againt the bass throb from the disco 6 floors down and at the other end of the building...but no-one came and cleaned my room while I tossed and turned at 1750.

And despite deathly quiet and lovely airconned comfort I afraid it's just not possible to get more than a few hours sleep, at best, when you have an 0800 report but your body clock says it's midnight.

So geniuses what do you suggest we do?

Oh yeah that's right...we'll have a whole bunch of fatigue theory shoved down our throat from some scientists, via CASA, that makes no possible difference to how fatigued we are but covers their collecive arses:yuk:

Do we really believe that Airlines are going to restructure the worldwide time table and keep track of and score everything that could possibly cause fatigue just so CASA can no longer be 'held' legally culpable?

After all the only other option would to limit sector times and or number of sectors/mth...something along the lines of maximum sector length 10 hours and maximum number/mth being 8...or 10 if 8 hr sectors...along those lines....but wait a minute can we really see CASA/FAA/CAA or whomever doing that?

I think not:*

But don't anybody have a combat nap enroute!

To be fair most enlightened companies/management pilots either actively encourage that or at worst turn a blind eye.

We, and various 'authorities' need to realise that the beancounters who run most airlines are NOT going to allow, let alone enforce, fatigue rules that hurt the bottom line....given any options.

Those options will range from VERY strongly pressed 'points of view' within meetings with the 'authorities' to ignoring the parts of the fatigue system they 'designed' and CASA 'approved' that cause the most 'inconveniance' to the roster/schedule.

But worry not!!! The paperwork will be straight.

Do these morons really believe a pilot will get away more than once with the "I have had no sleep due to x,y and z and cannot operate this flight"...when that means stranding a widebody and 300 pax half way around the world from their/its destination?

Even in places like OZ with 'meaningfull' labour laws the company would find a way to effectively end your career....never mind those who work in countries that have no labour laws whatsoever but still operate aircraft to the regs of a country such as the US (N reg aircraft in Asia/Middle East for example or VH reg aircraft based in asia or even asian registered aircraft that are based in asia but operating to JAROPS).

No, sorry dickheads..you work for the Civil Aviation SAFETY Authority...or the NZ Civil Aviation AUTHORITY....it's your statutory responsibility to make rules that work as well as possible and ENFORCE THEM!!!!!

Self Regulation like Outsourcing and a dozen other modern era beancounter/lawyer copouts just do NOT work in the real world.

Probably has something to do with the human condition being a tad difficult to model in a laboratory..and/or they really don't care to begin with as long as it's someone else's fault when something goes wrong,and they make lots of money in between 'unfortunate' events...that have been factored into the financial equations anyway.

Rant mode off :E

Chuck.

PS I work to JARops and do long haul...yes we get tired but I don't believe I have personally ever been 'fatigued' to the point it became dangerous...yet!! In fact I see no huge problems with those FTL rules that apply to where I fly and whom I fly for....certainly none that I think can be effectively addressed by said authority copping out of their statutory responsibilities.

I have however, while operating VH registered aircraft been forced down the FMS path by CASA and believe it to be an unworkable and dangerous system..particularly applied to international ops.

It's interesting that when I discussed, as a CP, FMSs some years ago they (CASA) were adamant that they were not meant to be applied to ops that crossed more than 3 time zones:suspect:...it just so happened that that's exactly what our op did from time to time and a certain CASA regional office insisted on an FMS anyway while Head 'Orofice' said no. Gave me great pleasure to send an email to said regional office which said in part..and I'm quoting from memory here.."When you and dopey mates on the far coast agree then get back to me".:ok: :}

Meanwhile at precisely the same time CASA CB approved an FMS for another VH reg Corporate Jet Operation based in the same asian country but with a higher allowed fatigue score than we had been led to believe was 'reasonable'. They rejoiced at being released from the shackles of CAO 48 and having 'one over' CASA. From what I know of their operation there was no way in hell that 'approved' fatigue score was going to even slow them down.

[Kaptin M]

Pure co-incidence?

Is it purely co-incidental that with aviation entering a period of critical pilot shortage, and that with that shortage escalating dramatically over the next few years, the CAA has NOW - after 50 years of working under the existing rules - decided to review duty periods??
And not only will they "review" the existing rules but are obviously giving consideration to allowing the EMPLOYER - NOT the PILOTS...the people affected by these changes - the authority to decide whether the pilots are suitably rested!!Instead of these limits, CASA supports a system where airlines could develop plans to show how they manage fatigue among their pilots, taking in as many factors as possible. Pilots - and their passengers....the airlines' "customers"....are going to be the guinea pigs of managers trying to crew flights with reduced pilot numbers - the alternative, using the existing limitations in conjunction with the future reduced pilot numbers, being flight CANCELLATIONS!

Is it purely co-incidental that when these "studies" are announced, they almost always are "sugar-coated" and appear benign?
And is it purely co-incidental that, invariably, these "studies" almost ALWAYS end up in REDUCING conditions??

THIS one is as transparent as glass!!

More than ever - if only BECAUSE of this announcement ALONE - pilots in Australia need to ensure that we have a united voice and a suitable representative to protect our SAFETY, and the SAFETY of those who travel with us.
(imo, the AFAP is the ONLY body with the experience and knowledge capable of providing this representation!)

[Arm out the window]

Re the reporter being known as Joe: perhaps at school he might have been nicknamed "Wang"...

Some around my vintage would remember the 2FTS Wang Brothers, surnames Curr, Carr and King!

[Chimbu chuckles]

Like NAS, and many things in life, the problem of fatigue in pilots is relatively simple to address.

Three things that contribute to fatigue as opposed to tired are:

1/. Flight Time Limitations
2/. Pilot Crew numbers
3/. Rostering Practices.

Where did the 30/100/900 limitations came from? I'm not absolutely certain but if memory serves it would be around the late 50s. In the immediate years post WW2 there were no duty/flight time limits as far as I'm aware.

They were LIMITS that the people who wrote them couldn't really invisage being approached all that often.

They were introduced as LIMITS in the days of piston airliners...where a crew couldn't go all that far on a tank of gas or even two. They would do a longish day and arrive, no doubt tired,but be somewhere that was only a couple of hours different, time zone wise, from the point of departure. A few beers and a good night sleep...next day head off somewhere for a relaxing day tour while they waited for the next aircraft to take on the next sector to somewhere else similarly spaced along the route network...probably a minimum of several good nights sleep between long tiring days. Their body clocks adjusted relatively slowly. Not as slowly as when people crossed the world in ships, as most did in the 50s but a lot slower than these days.

They were designed, and not completely innappropriate, before jet transports were invented..or at least in widespread service.

Nowadays a jet can take you a really long way on a tankfull of gas..somewhere that's easily 4 hours removed from your own time zone and more likely 6 or 8. Likelyhood of good sleep vastly reduced.

Within just a few short years...way less than a decade...those LIMITS were outrun by technology...and here we are 40 years later wondering how to get the Genie back in the bottle.

In modern times, say the last 10-15 years, they have become a target rather than a limit...beancounters maximising productivity to the detrement of the employee/benefit of shareholders is hardly a concept we haven't become familiar with. Hence we get to that point 6-8 hrs time zone wise and get turned around for home in a day or two at max.

That's what Fatigue is...an accumulation of tired.

When the relevant authorities legislate a set of Flight Time Limitations that WHEN FLOWN TO THE MAXIMUM still allow meaningful rest/ Time free from duty then fatigue will be alleviated.

But instead of that CASA wants to wash it hands of regulatory limitations.

It would be funny if it wasn't so potentially dangerous.

But what can we expect from people with virtually no exposure to the problem....only exposure to Lawyers who insist they must not be exposed to litigation.

What will the big study uncover?

A problem that CASA is not equiped to (or prepared to) solve.

Aircraft can be flown too far too quickly for the historic FTLs to have any hope of being safe.

Chuck.

[Sal-e]

Don't mind working just a little bit longer.......as long as pilots provided with some of those you beut qantas skybeds.

[ys120fz]

I reckon kaptinM is the membership/recruiting officer for the AFAP, and ON COMMISSION.

Now remember Kaptin, that if you earn money recruiting members for the AFAP, IN AUSTRALIA, then you must pay Australian tax on those earnings.

[oldhasbeen]

To mine, the only real way to "research" fatigue is to make management and rostering staff follow a crew around on a complete sequence sleeping when we sleep ( or not ) doing the BOC, trying to sleep during the day ,then signing on at 0500 the next morning, doing the 5 sectors , then driving for an hour in peak hour traffic home.
Do this for a month or so and then call it "research"!:mad:

[Kaptin M]

Imo, this topic deserves a LOT more attention than it's getting.

If allowed to pass, without SIGNIFICANT pilot representation and input, it has the potential to seriously affect aviation Safety, and the liability of pilots - simply because we agreed to fly under severely degraded standards from the current ones, which can be quite onerous if fully applied now.

Pilots are flying higher, and working longer at reduced O2 levels than previously.
Tours of duty are consistently being extended to the maximum allowable.
Dispensations to fly beyond max monthly/annual limits are becoming commonplace.....................and all for commercial reasons alone.

IF there is an accident, it will be the pilot(s) who wear the blame - and lose their livelihood - because THEY were the ones who accepted, and agreed to fly.

Look to the future if you plan on making aviation your source of income.

This topic DEMANDS your input!!

[Agent Mulder]

AIPA has been across this for years with the FRMS project being run in conjunction with Qantas, University of SA and the Centre for Sleep research.

To say that the AFAP is capable of representing pilots on this issue is a joke. Which group of long haul pilots does the AFAP represent?

The time is now for a new force in Industrial Representation of Australian Pilots and in particular Qantas group Pilots. United we bargain, divided we beg. Good news is on the horizon.

[SOPS]

In short..Its Dangerous. Fact!

[Going Boeing]

Fox is correct in that this research has been going on for approx four years and large sums of money have been contrbuted by Airservices Australia, Qantas, University of SA (Centre for Sleep Research) and AIPA. I understand that prior to AN's collapse, the AN management also contributed some money to the project. I am unaware of any financial commitment to this important research from the AFAP. I understand that some overseas airlines are assisting in supplying data, e.g. SIA with their 18 hour JFK-SIN sectors.

The data from this research will be used to model all future flying patterns for OZ based airlines and probably for most "western" nation based airlines. This data will be the only qualitative and quantitive means of determining "safe" flying patterns and once the project is complete then airlines who don't use the model will leave themselves vulnerable to litigation. The re-write of the OZ CAO 48 (flight time limitations) has been delayed pending the results of this research. The project was set up with full support of all concerned parties to obtain the best factual results and is not used for any point scoring over other aviation related bodies.

[kd_nub]

With all this research going into sleep deprivation and pilot fatigue, will the end result for US at the coal face ever be much different.

there will always be some sort of investigation r research into another safety factor, how ever as the point has been said before, will the accountants and management really allow some set of regualtions that will drasticly reduce this problem, i believe not.

Even if CASA was to fully implement these rules they would not be totally "friendly" to pilots because if we are taken out of the roster for too long or limited to fly too much the effeciency or economy of the crew will be reduced by too much to allow effecient operation, so there will always be some way that the accountants will screw the most out of the people in the pointy end and hopefully for the least amount of worry. So CASA would probly not push the point as is will affect the industry that they work in.

Sure they will make it safer with all these new studies, which no doubt is a step in the right direction, but what's the bet that in 5 years time we will still be here saying that the new rules are bull**** and dont satisfy the needs of the pilots.

[Going Boeing]

kd_nub

My understanding is that CAO 48 will be rewritten around these results and all Australian operators will have to comply. There will be no exemtions granted when the new CAO 48 comes into effect. Also, when the results of this research gets into the public domain, the legal fraternity would have a field day with any operator who doesn't use this knowledge to construct flying patterns. GB :D

[smokestak]

I have a friend who is a marine pilot who has operated under an FMS for years.
It is a simple process that is easy to follow, predict and roster for.

SO WHY THE HELL ARE WE STILL DICKING AROUND WITH THIS TOPIC!

Ours used to be the industry that led the way in all things under the HF umbrella.