Did it Fly today (The Nimrod that is)

[bluetail]

Rumour is strong on other sites that the new Mighty War Platform (sorry Nimrod MRA4) was due to leap into the ether today, August 19th.

This should be without doubt celebrated in style (if it happened) I was at ISK when the WOS muppets came and told us that the Nimrod 2000 (ha ha) would be the answer to our prayers.

I,ve even still got the Tee Shirt would you believe.

DID IT.........................

GG

[Squadgy]

Tommorow I understand

[JimmyTAP]

Early next week - weather permitting

JT

[Bear 555]

Sometime in between Sunday and Tuesday, perhaps.

Bear 555

ps Hi Bluetail

[teeteringhead]

Nimrod 2000, EFA 2000, NH 90!

When will manufacturers learn that putting dates in aircraft names is NOT A GOOD IDEA (excuse shouting!)

[Evanelpus]

Does that mean the project is 4 years late???

[bluetail]

Well, I left the mob in 1999, and WOS were at ISK at least 4 years before that,

so that makes it at least 8 years late by my reckoning ..................and counting

(that was is the days when I still had a No1 with a Belt and Eagle flashes as well)

But I was a bit thinner then

[JimmyTAP]

The contract was awarded in Dec 1996 and changed in 1998 to an in-service date of 2005. The current ISD is 2009. The project is about 4 years late.

Not ideal but all the time the DPA/MOD/BAE underestimated the size of the task.

Who are WOS anyway?

JT

[Biggus]

JT

Suspect that WOS = 'Waste Of Space'.

There is a nickname, used by many, for BAe (British Aerospace) to reflect on the company's supposed ability - this nickname being 'British Waste Of Space'. Hence no doubt WOS!

[BEagle]

BWoS (British Waste o'space) is a company run by a genial character known as 't Bungling Baron Waste o'Space. He is a cross between a Victorian mill owner and an engineer from 'towd days when government contracts were handed out on a plate to him, along with his favourite cow's udder and pig pancreas pie and other delights of Lancarrshirrr cuisine. His faithful but flatulent whippet, 'Boogeroff' lies snoring and farting gently at his master's feet - which of course are clad in stout 'obnailed clogs - raising an eyelid only when the clog dancing bells on 't master's corduroys tintinabulate merrily when " summat " amuses him.

" 't boogers at 't werrks", as he genially terms his work force - or farce - have been working on " 'towd Comet" since time immemorial, secure in the knowledge that Old Mad Maggie - a long time ally of 't Bungling Baron - "'ad allus' promised us that 't soft Soothan pansies in 't Ministry 'ud keep us all in brass wi' t' airrcrafft contracts for 't Raff"

't Bungling Baron has oft times graced the pages of PPRuNE over 't years; however, not for a while.

[Small Spinner]

Always amuses me the reference to BAE Systems as being a WOS. Generally it seems to come from ppl who have a limited experience of the problems and complexities of modern aircraft development. These ppl often have a perception that US companies are the dog's and like to run down British industry for some reason.

Not defending them from some of their major gaffes in the past but BAE are IMO not the only guilty party in recent procurement problems. Light Blue suits / DPA have often signed off on many of the decisions and can equally be held to account.

Problems associated with sub contractors, partner nations who have to approve changes in 4 different languages, holding customers to out dated and inflexible specifications, all add to the bill. I for one am amazed these projects cost so little.

The MRA4 is very close to success IMO. Fingers crossed it has a successful Flight Test Programme. Lets cut BAE some slack, and I am confident you will be getting an excellent aircraft.:ok:


Swearing is now banned, even with stars knobs and stripes

PPP

[teeteringhead]

it seems to come from ppl who have a limited experience of the problems and complexities of modern aircraft

BEags old fruit, surely he can't be referring to you????;)

[micksmith]

Sorry to drag you back to reality Small Spinner but arent said BWoS the same people who failed to manage to manufacture the wings to the right size for this particular aircraft and also forgot to mention to the Mod that using a bit of concrete to replace the Typhoon cannon wouldnt quite work. I accept that Buff hasnt treated them particularly kindly recently but what goes around comes around

PS Thanks BEagle for the highly amusing background

[BEagle]

Often the alleged 'complexities of modern aircraft' allegedly causing programme delay is perhaps more indicative of inept project management.

But as for multi-national language problems? Doesn't seem to affect a certain company whose subsidiary (EFW) has managed to produce the world's first 21st century tanker with most systems made by Brits (FRL) and Spaniards (EADS/CASA), managed by Germans (AI-D) and supported by the French OEM (AI)......

Whilst the 767 programme is still foundering in the doggy-doo.

't Bungling Baron, is for those who don't realise, more of a Bill Tidy cartoon sort of character than anyone who actually exists!

Or is he.....??

Merrily does the genial Baron chortle as he tucks into tripe-and-trotter tart for his 'tea' (as they call it oop Nawrth) - for his delaying tactics in getting 't Nimrod Y2K airborne is keeping 't werrks going when times is 'ard!

[Small Spinner]

I did say 'Not defending them from some of their major gaffes', but there is major faults in the so called Smart Procurement process, and where contracts are awarded to the cheapest bidder, where it is totally inappropriate to do so.
As a consequence the Prime, sub contracts big chunks of the work, again compounding the problems.
Mission Systems on the MRA4 will be a quantum leap from what is presently available, but will always give problems as it is pushing the boundaries of integration and data fusion.

Best of luck to the lads at Woodford / Warton for a successful first flight.

[jindabyne]

small spinner

Keep on being amused by it old son, 'cos the likes of BEagle and others have no sinister intent with their BWOS remarks. Been going on for years they have, much to the even greater amusement of those within the Firm. Harmless fun - if it was anything more, the forum would be a tad sadder place to browse awhile. Let them play -----------

[maninblack]

Could these be the same people who failed to check whether and EFA standard hermetically sealed connector was actually possible to build and therefore made all the suppliers of all the equipment selected in 1990 and 1991 apply for a deviation from specification to use mil spec connectors rather than admit that they had dropped a clanger?

Is this the same groups of people who failed to provide suficient recoil damping for the cannon so that when you fire it in flight the lamps in the navigation lights and the xenon tube in the anti-collision lights both shattered rendering the aircraft a hazard to navigation? Mind you it is a very cheap way to achieve NVG compatibility :-)

[Small Spinner]

You're absolutely right, BEagle.

"Often the alleged 'complexities of modern aircraft' allegedly causing programme delay is perhaps more indicative of inept project management."

Trust and openess are key to any project. Unfortunately denial and threats seem to prevail. C'est la vie.

[bluetail]

BEagle

What a cracking and amusing answer, Sir you are a wasted talent as an aviator extrordinair, (that,ll get a remark I betya)

Friday afternoon in bonny jockland has never seemed funnier

GG

[BEagle]

Glad to have brightened things up in the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar!

Yes - a bit of playful banter about 't Bungling Baron is purely intended to bring a little levity into the dull grey suit world of aircraft engineering.

I once had dealings with 't Bungling Baron's finest. They had agreed that a Thing would be fitted both to our beloved Vickers FunBus and to Timmy TriShaw. At one of the meetings we had an installation brief from both OEMs. First one was the Marshall Aerospace chap. In smart suit, with highly professional manner, chap showed an OHP (this was just before .ppt was the way of doing things) which looked as though it had come straight out of the TriShaw Flight Manual.

Then we had the BWoS mate. In one of those Barnes-Wallis tweed coats (I half expected to see a slide rule in his top pocket), he wandered over to the OHP and put on a slide which looked as though it was an original 1962 Vickers drawing in yellowing parchment with the installation drawn in using a blunt HB pencil. "Sorry about the quality, but the rain got in over the weekend and we've had a bit of a problem getting the drawings to dry out", he said. Yes, this crucial piece of kit was relying upon 't Bungling Baron's lot to fix the leak in the drawing office roof in order to provide the required engineering drawings.....

[Echo 5]

Beags,

Please don't upset t'Baron just at this moment cos I am begging for Voluntary Redundancy and I think I may get lucky.

Afterwards however !!

Regards

E5;)

[just noise]

BEagle

Dont forget the Hawk (100 and 200) Series.

That was a right disaster, was it not?

I am so glad that DPA and DLO are always there to help along the process when things are going to programme.

[scenictours49]

So.... has it flown ?

[Pontius Navigator]

Do light bue 2 years tours have anything to do with the delays?

We went to see the Mark 2 hunter in the shed, great lunch, very proud worker demonstrating the finesse and beautiful aeodynanic shape of the new on top aerial for sonobuoy homings.

As for the might hunter? No body actually doing anything.

[JimmyTAP]

So.... has it flown ?

er yes. see other thread

JT

[bluetail]

Pontius

Got to fully agree with you on the length of the Light Blue tours, it no doubt causes havoc with procurement (amongst many other issues).

Standard rule of the game as follows,

Sort out yourself a nice little office job somewhere cushy (WOS for example) on a project long into the future. But with enough house points attached to move up the rung (and get that tick in the box)

Spend the first 6 months trying to figure out what the job actually entails (after all the Friday beer calls and long lunches)

Spend 6 months clearing the previous occupants left overs

6 months of actually achieving (changing) the previous occupants decisions, so leaving your mark on the project.

Finally use the last 6 months getting ready for that next job your desk has promised, and making sure the next guys in tray is full.

result,
over and above the ridiculous additional delay added to a project, and no real ambition to make a really tough call, (not my place boy) and whats left, the chiefs and indians are left to pick up the pieces and who stay around for a minimum twice the duration (I had 3 CO,s in a 4 year tour at Strike) and have to try and cope.

Seen it, been there and done it, the light blue O,s should do a minimum of 4 years in any job after 1st tour, at least then they would actually earn their overpayments.

The RAF have got a shocking history of delays, many of which can be put down to the 2 yr tour mentality. Wait 'til they get a job outside with a boss who has to make a PROFIT......no chance.

Half the battle with Nimrod programme was that no one would listen.....................hence its long delay

Rant over GG