NAC pilots threatened with sack...PART 2

[skywise]

Please can someone in the "know" provide an update on what is going on at NAC re pilots pay conditions?

[Dj Dave]

apparently NAC is advertising for new pilots. (thru Best Practices)

Can anyone confirm this ?

[Erin Brockovich]

Look in todays NT News (Sat) p66.

Prospective Scabs, give the guys at NAC chance to do the right thing before you take their jobs!

Don't sell (the industry you work in) out.

[jon.pierre]

For those waiting on an update.
(Background: Refer “ALL NAC pilots threatened with sack! http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=138104

Wanted SCABs to replace NAC pilots standing up for their rights,
Northern Territory News, Saturday, August 14, 2004. Page 66 – Classifieds.Best Practice Skills
Pilots Wanted For Contract Work
Requirements:
Cessna 210/206 Pilots, minimum 500 hours TT, 50 on type
Cessna 310/Baron 58 Pilots, minimum 1000 hours TT, 200 twin, endorsed on type.
Cessna 402/Chieftain Pilots, minimum 1500 hours TT, 300 twin, endorsed on type.
Please contact 89** **** or fax resume to 89** ****
Email: bestpractice@…I’m informed that very few of the existing pilots have signed on as contractors, but the newies of course had no choice if they wanted to work.

NAC/BPS released a revised contract conceding a 2 hour minimum, and adding a paragraph recommending pilots take out there own public liability insurance. But as far as I can see that’s the only changes. Upshot the guys that do two trips to BTI for Tiwi Travel and Freight (Flight Numbers 007/ 008, & 009/ 010 departing Darwin at 0800 and returning from the second trip at 1730 – Refer the published schedule on their website) would now be paid 2 hours instead of 1.2 hours under the original contract. But of course, while not “required,” pilots are still expected to work free, on the ground, in the between times.

AFAP have arrived in town and met with pilots last night. They will be meeting with the company over the week.

NAC/BPS have also been requested by some government and other companies to provide evidence that their pilots conditions are award compliant. BPS informed one of these companies that pilots NAC would be back paying it’s pilots to the 24 March for any shortfalls to the award… (bwahaha, I’d like to see where HA is going to produce the estimated $250-300K needed to pay out correctly, when he’s so far behind on his aircraft, fuel and other bills. But of coarse, for his pilots, I hope he does).

Hang in there guys, ‘cos while the contract rate looks good on the front page, the deal falls way short on fair benefits and conditions… short on conditions equivalent to more than $13 per flight hour single driver, and $22 per hour for a twin pilot.

Fight for your rights, you’ll certainly have earned them and the back pay.

(And HA, don't bother reporting me for the post, I'm emailing Woomera our verification)

[bunglesboy]

This seems to be a common practice with owners of smaller G.A companies in Australia. I spent many years in G.A companies and have seen and heard alot of things that simply wouldn't be tollerated in other professions. This is just another case of a greedy owner trying to screw the people who work hard to provide him with his income so he can drive expensive cars and live the high life. As usual he believes that if you shake a tree a dozen pilots will fall out and be willing to work for next to nothing. You guys and girls at NAC must stand strong and fight for your rights and set the bar at a level that will send a message to other operators that you are professionals and you must be treated as such.
This will be a hard fight but stay with it guys.

[ginjockey]

From an industrial relations and legal perspective, can anyone comment on the potential for pilots at this company to take their case to a proper court or hearing. I assume that all the pilots employed there are casuals and were employed under a some loose verbal employment condition. I seriously doubt that the company would employ many full time staff (with associated entitlements) under a formal award type agreement as that costs more and makes it harder to sack people etc etc. Sacking staff at will and verbal under the table deals seem to be the preferred method of business at NAC ( Based on reading the report on the sacked pilot/ arbitartion case posted recently).

The question is:

As a casual, if you don't accept the new below award deal, you get fired (or not re-employed), do you really have any comeback on that or is it just easier to walk off and look for another job, which is what the boss wants you to do?

Can anyone comment?

as a sideline, this whole deal and the way it was designed and enforced sounds like a perfect example of utterly dismal human resource management and I can't imagine what sort of dollars NAC are paying Best Skills Practice to implement it but they are doing a lousy job I would suggest.

[jon.pierre]

BPS to be paid 10% above pilot - sorry contractor - fees.

This will save HA in the order $7 per flight our for a single, and $16 per flight hour for a twin driver PLUS the money he saves by not paying the minimum 4 hours pay for duty periods in excess of 4 hours duration, which is probably the more significant bit.

If HA doesn't want the bill of high priced "casual" labour, he should put more staff on salary. However if HA did that, he'd also have to start acting like a responsible employer; or expect to see many more unfair dismissal, harassment, and compo cases, etc.

It's all about trying to wield his power and control really. But like the dictators of the past (and present), the selfishness, pride, and arrogance to ignore the human rights of those falling under his authority and responsibility will eventually catch up with HA.

[Bill Smith]

There are a number of people that have taken a particular company to task in W.A.
This company thought that they were above the law.
Justice prevailed and people got what they deserved.

Stick with it guy's & girls :ok:

[spam]

Sounds interesting Bill, any more details available? Heard a rumour that there had been a mass walk out at one place at Jandakot a few months back, but it was all kept pretty quiet. PM me if you like.

--------------------------

spam, glorious spam

[ginjockey]

I think Jon Pierre has it summed up. Employing full time staff gives them certain rights, such as sick leave, holiday pay and most importantly, a stronger defence against unlawful dismissal. NAC has been indentified as a company that will dismiss it's staff at the drop of a hat and for vague reasons ( refer to the recent laughable arbitration thread posted in DG). Although it is generally better all round for any compnay and its employees to have full time apppointments, this makes it much more difficult for a company to sack staff at will.

It is proven however that contractor have comparatively little loyalty or personal connection to their workplace and this shows up in their work efforts.

I see it here at my work. I am a full timer and I love my workplace and job as it's secure and safe. We also employ people on contracts, they could not care less about the place. Mostly, they make no effort to save money or go the extra mile. That has the potential to cost an employer an absolute packet if you are operating aircraft.

It's not the best way to run a service type business trust me. Disenchanted and unsmiling contract labour at the pointy end of your customer relations.... NO thanks.
Good luck with your jobs guys and girls, whatever the future brings.

Gin

[VH-ABC]

Come on HA, pretty sure you read these pages on a regular basis... Any chance of hopping in the game here to try and play some defence?

[DUXNUTZ]

I like most watch this current shafting closely, cos you can bet your bottom dollar Air N****r and others in Darwin will follow suit with their own "Contract labour" schemes should NAC pull this off......

Lets face facts, the GA Award for a full time single driver isn't too flash by comparison to say a garbo so its not too much to ask.

If i was at the table of negotiations i'd be pulling for a weekly bonus for having to deal with Ste**n. Call it "D*ckH**d employer allowance"!!!

On the upside, most pilots with the TT that Best Practise are after should know better, lets hope they do!

-Its NUTZ

[ginjockey]

The other worry is this claim that new NAC contractors are required to fund their own public liability insurance. If that is true, it opens a massive can of worms for new pilots. As a low time pilot, flying knackered out single engine charters into dirt strips with five or six pax on the loads you are going to be paying a fortune to be covered for the minimum twenty or thirty million you will need to make it viable. As well as being a pilot, you are runing your own tax reporting and insurance coverage.
All this for the same rate of pay the girl on the drive through window at Chicken Treat is pulling in.

Then, lets factor in no job security at all. Extra work in the hanger for free, answering phones and doing qoutes for free, no meaningful attachment to the company you work for (and don't underestimate that til you have felt it) and the knowledge that the guy in the hanger up the street is doing it a lot easier as a casual on the award.

HA, what happens if a contractor stacks it due to a freak gust of wind on landing and kills two people in your aircraft and hasn't had his insurance paid up ? Who wears that one?

Gin.

[ITCZ]

jon.pierre said

I’m informed that very few of the existing pilots have signed on as contractors,
How very disappointing that even one may have signed.

but the newies of course had no choice if they wanted to work.
Bullsh1t.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

So what's the full story now;

1. Have ANY previous casual Pilots signed up as contractors?.

2. Has NAC had it's operations cut due to lack of Pilot contractors?.

[Tinstaafl]

I suggest the ATO won't see them as 'contractors' no matter what the supposed contract says. An implication of being a contractor is supply of labour etc to more than one party.

If the work situation looks like a duck, quacks like a duck & ****s like duck then the ATO will see it as an employed duck.




Tins. You are correct - the pilots are not contractors if they are employed by only one operator. And I doubt they are "casual". Read the article "Are your casuals really casual" and "Termination of casual employees" at the Office of the Employment Advocate (http://www.oea.gov.au/graphics.asp?showdoc=/employers/decasualisation_legal.asp&Page=2) site.

And the "contract" I've seen seems to be a total waste of good paper! I can't see how anyone could take it seriously.

Woomera

[James Taylor]

Maybe Stefan should look into registering Northern Air Charter as a Charity.

:)

my thoughts are with those poor souls at NAC I hope you can find work elsewhere.

redcan

[Locator]

Hmmm....

What I want to know is were do I sign up to become the new contact Chief Pilot or maybe contract Check and Training. :mad:
Again what a joke.:yuk:
I'd like to know what CASA thinks of this? surely, there will be a few safety issues with that one. :hmm:

Besides, I wouldn't call it "Northern Air Charter" anymore "Northern Air Contracting" sounds much better. :ok:

Luv Loc.
xxx

[Air Ace]

Conditions of contract at N…………………

Contracts may be offered on an hourly, monthly or annual basis.

1. Pilots on an hourly contract:
Single engine aircraft (non IFR) - $54.10 per hour
Twin engine aircraft (non IFR) - $61.99 per hour
Whilst flying IFR an additional amount of $10.00 per hour will be paid.

When a pilot is required to wait at a location away from home base for in excess of 2 hours, the pilot shall be paid for suck waiting time at the rate of $20.00 per hour to a maximum of 5 hours per day:

Each engagement shall be on a daily basis unless involves an overnight stay, in which case it shall be for the total duration of the trip.

Hours on an engagement shall be calculated on the basis of actual flying hours.

2. Pilots on a weekly contract:
Single engine aircraft (non IFR) - $730.77 per week
Twin engine aircraft (non IFR) - $826.92 per week
While flying IFR an additional amount of $10.00 per hour will be paid.

3. Pilots on a monthly contract:
Single engine aircraft (non IFR) - $3166.67 per month
Twin engine aircraft (non IFR) - $3583.33 per month
While flying IFR an additional amount of $10.00 per hour will be paid.

4. Pilots on an annual contract:
Agreement with N__, some pilots may be offered a 12 month contract on the following basis:
Single engine aircraft (non IFR) - $38,000.00 per annum
Twin engine aircraft (non IFR) - $43,000.00 per annum
While flying IFR an additional amount of $10.00 per hour will be paid.

Annual contracts shall be subject to the following conditions:

Each pilot shall have, and be required to maintain, IFR rating.

Pilots shall, subject to legislative restrictions or CASA regulations, be required to perform all duties that are within their competence to perform.

Where a pilot terminates the contract on their own initiative the pilots shall be paid for the period up to their termination. In this circumstance the contractor will give 14 days notice of such termination or pay 2 weeks pay in lieu of such notice.

Where a pilot fails to perform their contracted duties in a competent manner, N……………. may terminate the contract. In these circumstances N__ will only be required to pay up to the time of the termination of contract. Without limiting the scope of this provision, reasons for termination of contract summarily include:

Gross Misconduct in the performance of duties
Failure to abide by the operations manual
Breaching CASA regulations or directions

Where N__ terminates the contract for any reason, N__ shall be required to pay out the balance of the contract period.

Conditions of contract applying to all contractors:

Except where differently described for contractors on an annual contract, the following conditions will apply to all contractors:

Pilots shall, subject to legislative restrictions or CASA regulations, be required to perform all duties that are within their competence to perform.

Where a pilot terminates the contract on their own initiate the pilots shall be paid only for the period up to their termination. In this circumstance the contractor will give 14 days notice of such termination or pay 2 weeks payment in lieu of such notice.

Where a pilot fails to perform their contracted duties in a competent manner, N………………….. may terminate the contract. In these circumstances N__ will only be required to pay up to the time of the termination of contract. Without limiting the scope of this provision, reasons for termination of contract summarily include:
Gross Misconduct in the performance of duties
Failure to abide by the operations manual
Breaching CASA regulations or directions

Where N__ terminates the contract for any reason, N__ shall be required to pay out the balance of the contract period.

Pilots will be required to wear company uniform shirts, epaulettes, name badges and “wings” which shall be supplied to the contractor at no cost to the contractor. These items shall at all times remain the property of N__ and shall be returned to N__ in good condition (subject to normal wear and tear) when the contractor ceases to provide services to N__. The contractor shall be responsible to maintain suck items supplied in good condition (subject to normal wear and tear). If any items, the property of N__, are lost or damaged they shall be replaced by the contractor at the contractor’s expense. Such replacement items shall be and remain the property of N__.

Contractors will be supplied and wear the following:
Black microfibre pants (long)
Black “shiny” shoes or boots
Black belt
The contractor will be required to wear such uniform (both that supplied by N__ and required to be supplied by the contractor) at all times.

Where a contractor is required to stay overnight at a location other than the home base during any period oif engagement, the contractor shall be provided with reasonable meals and accommodation at no cost to the contractor, or alternatively be reimbursed the actual cost of reasonable meals and accommodation (on production of receipts) to a maximum of $150.00 per night.

N__ will offer endorsement rating and upgrade on the following basis:
Baron/310/partenavia endorsement: $1,500.00
Cabin class: $2,500.00
Single engine: $1,000.00
Instrument rating renewal: $1,000.00

Contractors may chose to either pay the above charges or have them as a debt to N__. Provided that if the contractor continues to provide services to N__ for a period of 12 months, the above charges will be reimbursed to the contractor or, if the contractor has opted to have the charge remain a debt to N__, such debt will then be waived.

Other general conditions of contract are as stipulated in the “Hiring agreement” form attached and in the contractor’s “agreement to contract” form which is attached for your information.

Accepted by contractor:- Name:
Signed:

What a ludicrous and childish document!!!

Should the “contract” ever be tested at law, the copy I have contains certain hand written comments which would be very prejudicial to the company. :}

[ginjockey]

Looks like a very amateur contract from the Best Skills staff. Written in a basic manner and with lots of vague areas. I take it that no pilots are required to hang about all day answering phones, doing qoutes or cleaning the office then. It's not in the contract is it? As a pilot you can turn up, flight plan, fuel and depart and when you return have the rest of the day off. Never once touching a broom or bottle of spray and wipe. That's a bonus but who is now doing all the random garbage that needs to be done. What about driving in and out of the CBD collecting passengers and so on? That all takes up hours of your day too.

But my question regards insurance. How does that work? Who is liable for accident cover? Is the contractor liable? Are pilots paying their own accident cover and how does that work if a company aircraft fails (not pilot error) and causes the accident? I would get those details covered in writing in individual contracts to be safe.

Don't forget that as a contractor you are paying tax on those wages which entails keeping a tax record and associated paperwork, as well as your own superannuation and incidentals.

As for the contract, it looks like a year five student drafted it up to keep track of his boy scout fund raising dollars. Pretty amateur indeed.

[gaunty]

Anybody who signs that desrves everything they are or are not going to get so to speak.

Woomera has provided some very sage advice on where to go to get the right advice about these matters.

Pilots are generally too smart by a half so I wont be surprised if most don't take it.

ginjockey mentions insurance; and so he should.

I know not how it works in the NT, but Workers Compensation where I come from is usually the contractors responsibility and companies employing them require evidence of it before they will be employed as such.
Taking that to its logical extension I would be amazed if ANY company employing your employer would allow you or any of YOUR employers on their site or to undertake work for them unless you could show written evidence of it or some other cover. Capische.

Workers Compensation Insurance is not cheap or easy to get and in any event requires of the contractor a very high standard of duty of care. This quite naturally flows into the workplace provided by the employer and in which the contractor is required to operate.

If you think this is opens up a very big can of worms, believe it.

And we wont even go near the professional and personal liabilities working as a contractor as distinct from an employee brings.:eek: Try paying off a multimillion claim for the rest of your life on those paltry wages.

What it all means is, that if you were charging for your service as a contractor the above rates are probably around less than half what they should be to compensate for the "risk" and "down time" between "paying jobs".
Why do you think the plumber charges his men out at $60-80 per hour or the auto maintenance shop similar or more.

Nah the only person who is "winning" here is not the pilots.

This whole exercise merely :rolleyes: shifts the "compulsory costs" of these items from the employer to the employee by changing his name to "contractor".

And then of course the ATO will tax you as an employee if more than 80% of that income is earned with the same employer.

Neither does this mean that there cannot be a form of employment that works for both, but I don't see it here.

But dont listen to me I am not an expert, go tell it to the people Woomera has pointed you at.

Oh and BTW the "It wont happen to me" sounds pretty hollow, when you become disabled, unemployable or pay your hospital bills.

Workplace conditions for employees have been hard fought for, you do the math.

Simply, do what you do best and are trained to do, fly an aircraft, leave ALL of the rest to the professionals, the, AFAP, your local IRC expert and or the places pointed out by Woomera, you do not have the training, expertise or the financial capacity to pay for the ramifications of screwing it up.:{

The pilots who "take it" for their own expedience and "hours" deserve the same disapprobation reserved for scabs as well as free entry into the Annual "Darwin" (as in Charles) awards. Quite appropriate really.:p

[splatgothebugs]

As a bi standing who only got paid $100 before tax for a 13 hour duty.............I feel for you all.

BUT

I was wondering what do these guys get currently because $43K is a hell of alot more than you will ever see in NZ on a Turbine let alone on PA31.

splat :confused:

[Transition Layer]

splat,

While it seems like $43,000 on the surface, i think you'll find the true amount is much less once things like workers comp are factored in.

Off the top of my head, the REAL, RIDGY-DIDGE NO BULLSH1T full-time IFR award wage for a PA31 or similar driver is in the order of $38000.

Anyway, does it really matter what you guys get in NZ? This is Darwin, NT, Australia we are talking about.

I do feel for you guys, but compared to Australia, the standard of living and wages enjoyed in your country are way below ours. Why do you think so many of you buggers inhabit our great land?

TL

[Rich-Fine-Green]

T.L.

It does kind of matter what Pilot's earn in NZ.....

Nothing stops a New Zealand Pilot coming over and signing a 'contract' and taking on a position at ??? if no one else will. From what I understand, the pay/conditions in NZ G.A. are worse than in OZ.

...and at other places as well. There are enough Pilots in Australia accepting less than what the above contract offers. There are enough unemployed Pilots out there as well that will sign up (regretably).

As per my previous post: Has there been enough Pilots walk out or not sign contracts to restrict NAC's operation?.

This is the measure if the contract will be accepted or not.

If the fleet stays gounded due to lack of drivers then the contract idea will fizzle out.

The owners of NAC will not allow their investment to stay on the ground for long.

So, can anyone in DN reply?., Are they flying 100% right now or not?.

[Transition Layer]

R-F-G,

We have locked horns a couple of times on this matter but I think at the end of the day we are batting for the same team.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there is nothing stopping a Kiwi coming over and accepting these conditions or any other position in GA that offers sub-award wages. I guess the point I was trying to make is that any Kiwi coming over here shouldn't settle for second best, just because the conditions they may have left behind in NZ GA are far worse.

Cheers,
TL

[Rich-Fine-Green]

T.L.

Well said - good advice.

I get frustrated reading the same old posts - because Pilot's as a group are their own worst enemy.

I see conditions getting more like the USA GA scene;

Low pay, no job security, bonding, self-funded endorsements etc.

Yes, blame the few Operators that 'take advantage' of 'poor defenceless Pilots' but in the end, there will always be a Pilot out there willing to accept second best.

It does not matter how tight the emplyment rules are, or how tough the IRC is - a desperate Pilot will find a way get a foot in the door. Over the years, I have seen 'mates' backstab other Pilots for jobs. Quite sad really.

That's why I asked if NAC's operations were being slowed by a lack of Pilots (all sticking together and refusing the offered conditions in my naive imagination).

My Post remains unanswered and I also notice that there has been a lack of real, actual anonymous NAC Pilots responding on this topic.

Do I read this as NAC's operations are op's normal and the contracts, although not quite kosher are being accepted by either the existing Pilot group or a new group of Pilots?.

[drshmoo]

Partenavia Endorsement $1500


hahahhaha, surely that’s a wind up??

[NAC Pilots]

Dear all

We represent a significant amount of present staff at the mentioned company who do not want to resign and become contractors.

The AFAP is actively persuing on behalf of the pilot group a resolution to the current dispute. Latest news is that a draft EBA has been designed by AFAP, forwarded to the MD and we eagerly await him accepting the proposal.

Thank you to all the people who have supported us in our efforts - it has been overwhelming and not limited to Australia. We are fully aware that this issue is not specific to one company but could potentially affect all of GA. Believe it when we say that the 'majors' are aware of current events.

We welcome any support to discourage prospective 'contractors' signing up. The reasons for why we ask this are evident. Yes, a minority of ignorant and anxious (for lack of better words) current pilots have signed on as contractors. This is dissapointing but anticipated under the current environment and as a result they do get most of the flying.

We believe that we are doing the right thing.




I believe (in my personal capacity) you are not only doing the right thing, but also the lawful thing. Two parties (at least) are bound by the conditions of an Award - the employer and the employee. (Occasionally three parties in Federal Awards, where the relevent Union is also bound to the Award).

The "contract" is worthless and meaningless. In the absence of an AWA, only the Award prevails at law.

A claim for unpaid wages, together with an action for wrongful dismissal (should employment be terminated for not signing the "contract") should clear the air.

I am neither pro Union nor pro Award however I am totally committed to the concept of a fair days pay for a fair days work. The Award sets the minimum standard expected of both parties in order to achieve that expectation.

Woomera

[Stars Jewel]

We welcome any support to discourage prospective 'contractors' signing up. The reasons for why we ask this are evident. Yes, a minority of ignorant and anxious (for lack of better words) current pilots have signed on as contractors. This is dissapointing but anticipated under the current environment and as a result they do get most of the flying.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a sad state of affairs.

For to long GA Pilots have copped the wrong end of the stick. Especially in Darwin.
The Days of doing a Bathurst I. all day charter for .6 MR and no waiting time just 20 od dollars for your effit are not that far gone. Finally the industry has a low but exceptable Award wage yet there are still Pilots out there willing to undermind the achievements of who ever it was that fought for all of us. Thier fight was to win the AWARD and make Flying condition better and safer than the were.
Now there are Pilots willing to give up the Award purely to better thier own position. To those who have signed I hope enjoy your days , as the NAC pilots who are standing strong sit at home waiting to be called into fly, while your out there doing max hours and filling your wallets and purses, thinking of that great day when you finally ''get out'' and '' back south with a real'' Job.
It's a sad day. The Pilots of NAC i encourage you to make it very Public who signs. Let these people know what has happened in the past and that the award is there for pretection rather than finacial stability.

No one is forced to SIGN . No excuses please. You do not owe NAC anything, especially not something as valuable as giving up your right to recieve the AWARD.


To the people who have signed I wish you all the best in your Careers. I hope one day you will look back and see the significance of what you have done to the Industry. Your short sightlessness and your self interest will surely make you are very successful person. But a very lonely one.


Again Pilots are prepared to shoot themselves in the Foot. Why???

To the NAC pilots that are doing the right thing, atleast you will know you have the support of all of us that se the great stance you are making. Because if you fall all of us will.

And for nothing else your standing in the Aviation community will be respected for years to come, when hopefully we all have our dream jobs.

[Erin Brockovich]

Latest News

The MD at NAC is apparently making deals with a Melb based corporate charter company (AJ who operates the NAC Citation) to get their low time pilots to fly for him.

Maybe an indication that the BPS recruit file is actually quite thin.

I suggest that anyone who knows these AJ low timers have a quiet word to them. They may not even know yet.

Lets nip it in the bud if it is true.

Bravo to 'NAC Pilots'

[Binoculars]

I'm not a pilot and have no particular axe to grind except fairness. I would like to add my voice to those offering words of encouragement to the NAC pilots refusing to sign the contracts. I know that's easy to do from a position of employment but as somebody else pointed out, your stand will be respected by all in the industry in the future, and the names of those signing will also be well known for different reasons.

I was vaguely acquainted with somebody employed by this mob fairly recently, and while I'm not in contact, I find myself hoping she is not one of those signing up.

Good luck to you all, and unity should win this one for you.

[robair]

Its about time pilots united and stood up against the poor conditions of employment in this country. I support you guys 100%. So any you thinking about shafting your colleges in Darwin I urge you DON'T!
I'm glad I saw this thread so I know not to apply to NAC thanks.
Lets hope you have a win. It will not only be a win for youselfs, but a win for ALL pilots in GA.
Good luck
Rob

[jon.pierre]

Well sadly not surprising, the MD continues to display no loyalty to those he is responsible for.

HA has informed his staff that promotion among the original pilots is now suspended until they sign the contracts. But today, a contract pilot (dare I say SCAB) who has been flying there a month (if it's even that long) has started his ICUS to jump from 210 to Chieftain, over the top of the standing staff.

On the flip side, NAC continues to have its fleet confiscated by those losing faith in HA's operation and ability to pay bills. 2 Barons have gone to Chartair, and a third is about to go north. With the company's policy for selecting pilot promotion, all NAC aircraft owners should be thinking carefully about who will be flying their aircraft.

Hope the SCABs have their insurance paid up.

[Mr. Hat]

Losing a/c?

The show's over kiddies - this clown needs to go back to the circus.

Scatch yer later.

[U2]

Is this an earth tremor or earthquake for HA?

Keep this thread going...and keep it honest.

NAC PILOTS...stick to your guns...your children will thank you for it one day!

U2

[Binoculars]

I trust this thread is being forwarded by whatever means possible to the Signers. They need to know how long some people's memories are. Dodgy GA operators may employ them in the future because the operators know they have a slave who will cop any humiliation for the privilege of flying. It is probable that those dodgy operators are as far as the Signers will ever get.

Not all cries of scabs are genuine, and I have been abused by some from THAT year for my opinions, but this is as genuine a case as industrial relations provides, starting as it does at the bedrock of aviation, and the Signers here are the ultimate scabs.

I had previously listened to the stories about HA and assumed there were lots of vested interests putting both sides, making it difficult for an outsider to see the truth. This time it looks to me to be cut and dried, and I suggest the NonSigners attempt to find a labour lawyer who will work pro bono on their behalf. If you lose this case, industrial law will be proven to be a farce, invoking consequences so widespread as to affect possibly millions of lives.

The waterfront dispute was a kick in the arse for unionism because the unions blindly supported the corruption, thievery and legalised thuggery that characterised the wharfies. I for one had no problems with that result, even if I was a little concerned by the methods used.

This case is different. Unionism is on the back foot, their power base is dissolving as part of a natural cycle. It is my belief that this case is a typical example of why unions were formed in the first place. You are, quite simply, being screwed, and this is a circumstance where a union is what is required. Your current union appears to be uninterested, where it should be jumping up and down screaming blue murder.

You may all still think of yourselves as individuals who have no time for unions, and unions basically gave up on pilots long ago for that reason, but have another look at the situation and think again. I say again, unity will win this case for you.

Good luck once again.


Disclosure: I have never occupied a position in any union, and I am not currently a member of a union.

[WoodenSpoon]

On the flip side, NAC continues to have its fleet confiscated by those losing faith in HA's operation and ability to pay bills. 2 Barons have gone to Chartair, and a third is about to go north.

Cessna 210 VH-KST has also gone to Chartair Katherine, as well as the two Barons.

[Equatorial]

I was vaguely acquainted with somebody employed by this mob fairly recently, and while I'm not in contact, I find myself hoping she is not one of those signing up.

Binos - from what I have heard - unfortuantely your 'somebody' was one of the first to sign willingly and has been rewarded with some recent twin flying on a new type for her. :mad:

NAC Pilots you ARE doing the right thing. :ok:

[Binoculars]

Oh dear. The worst news possible. I hope we are talking about different people. :sad:

[maxgrad]

stick to your guns people and well done.
its bloody hard enough in this industry without this tripe being dished out
Kill Fang

[Woomera]

I'll leave this thread running but can we please have some respect for PPRuNe rules and keep "personalities" and "individuals" out of the thread?

Woomera

[Woomera]

I have received a communication from the operator which contained the following letters from both the AFAP and the Company.

The Australian industrial relations legislative framework provides various formats – including Awards, EBAs and AWAs - designed to ensure a flexible and viable work place both for employees and employers.

Provided this operator is engaging and remunerating it’s employees in accordance with one of the Australian legislative frameworks available, it is acting in accordance with Australian industrial relations law.

All employees have an individual right of whether they choose to sign an EBA or AWA, or not.

Neither PPRuNe nor Woomera support the use of the word “scab” in these forums.

It would appear this operator’s employees have obtained an equitable and legally acceptable format of employment. This PPRuNe thread has achieved it’s objective and in all fairness, is now locked. Feel free to open a new thread, but only if the conditions being offered to existing and new employees are not in accordance with Industrial Relations law.

Woomera


MEMORANDUM

TO: (Company) Pilots

FROM: (AFAP Representative)

DATE: 30th August 2004

SUBJECT: EBA Update


The Federation was contacted by (the Company) this morning both by phone and email to confirm that the Company is prepared to enter into an Enterprise Agreement with the Federation.

The agreement will be along the lines as we had drafted and forwarded to the Company recently. The position is to be clarified with (the Managing Director) in the next two or so days to finalise the exact words of the clauses.

Once that has been completed we will forward a copy to all pilots asking them to consider the document and then we will conduct a ballot in accordance with the Workplace Relations Act.

The above should be seen as a positive step in respect to what has been happening recently. The Company makes it clear that some pilots have opted to move to a contract arrangement and they will still be engaged. Ultimately the position will be one of the individual pilots decision.

On that note the Company has also asked that there have been reports of name calling - ‘scabs’ and the like. Please be aware that this is not supported by the Federation and would be treated in exactly the same fashion as the Company applying ‘pressure’ to sign on as a contractor. If this is occurring you are advised to stop immediately.

This is an opportunity to address the working conditions at (the Company) for now and the future with a common sense approach to both sides advantage.

We look forward to your continuing support and very shortly an EBA that will address the concerns previously held.

(AFAP Representative)



MEMO FROM
MANAGING DIRECTOR

Monday, August 30, 2004

It has come to my attention that there is a certain pilot group causing problems for other pilots. Frankly it disgusts me that you would want to cause your fellow aviators any grief. Work arrangements are choice with individuals.

At no point has it been mandatory to sign onto become a contractor. In fact if you listened to your representation, the AFAP then you would know that I am currently in negotiations to finalize an Enterprise bargaining agreement (EBA). At which point you will have two work arrangement options. The AFAP do not have any legal problems with the contracting system and have said that it is up to individuals if they wish to become a contractor.

To interrogate potential future employees is pathetic really and please do not try to say that it is not happening, as I know it is. No one has made any effort to discuss the issues with management (apart from on public rumor networks). This does not concern me as I had a very productive meeting with the AFAP.

Labeling people “scabs” for making their own work decisions will not be tolerated. It will be seen as harassment in the workplace and as such it will be dealt with in the strictest of manners through the industrial relations commission.

I will repeat myself one last time the AFAP and (the Company) are working together to form an EBA. In the interim I would ask that you have a serious think before jumping on the bandwagon of insulting fellow peers. It is a choice whether or not you want to be a contractor; Australia is a democracy, do not punish those who make their own decisions.

Please feel free to discuss the above with either your AFAP representation or myself.

Regards,


Managing Director.