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Wirraway
17th Aug 2004, 04:50
Tues "Sydney Morning Herald" Late News

Virgin Blue cries foul over Air NZ tactics
August 17, 2004 - 9:54AM

Australian budget airline Virgin Blue has accused Air New Zealand of using taxpayer money to drive it out of the market.

Virgin Blue said it would write to the New Zealand Commerce Commission after Air New Zealand announced today that it would start a weekly service between Christchurch and Rarotonga in the Cook Islands on December 1.

Virgin announced in June that it planned to fly the same route "mid-week" by the end of the year, under its Pacific Blue brand, and was applying for regulatory approvals.

Air NZ said its Cook Islands service would depart each Wednesday using a new 146-seat Airbus A320 aircraft for the service, which, like the Pacific Blue service, would connect with trans-Tasman flights.

The airline, majority-owned by the New Zealand Government after a $NZ885 million ($A821 million) bailout in 2001, denies it is trying to force Virgin off the route.

It says it is responding to market demand.

But Virgin's head of commercial operations, David Huttner, said a clear pattern was emerging of Air NZ duplicating competitor initiatives before they had a chance to start flying them.

"It appears to be a broad-based strategy against any competitor," Mr Huttner said.

The commission is already investigating a complaint by Nelson-based Origin Pacific that Air NZ had acted anti-competitively by replicating its proposed Hamilton to Christchurch service in September last year, forcing Origin to abandon its plans.

Air NZ said at the time that it had been planning to fly the route for two years. It has since added more flights.

After Virgin Blue suggested in April 2001 that it could fly a direct jet service between Auckland and Dunedin, Air NZ announced a similar service a month later.

At the time, Air NZ said it was filling a gap left after the collapse of Qantas New Zealand.

Virgin claims that Air NZ moved its budget airline Freedom Air off domestic routes and on to the Tasman to discourage it from entering the market.

And earlier this year, Air NZ responded to a proposed charter service by travel agent Flight Centre from several New Zealand centres to Fiji by launching Freedom on the same routes, and substantially lowering prices.

Flight Centre abandoned its plans after delays in getting approval from the Fiji authorities.

Mr Huttner said Virgin would write to the commission in support of Origin, but he stopped short of saying the airline would lodge its own formal complaint over the Rarotonga service.

"We can fight the fight ourselves, but they are playing this game with the taxpayer's money," Mr Huttner said.

But Air NZ group general manager of sales and marketing, Norm Thompson, said the service was a response to a 49 per cent increase in the number of New Zealanders going to the Cook Islands in the year to June.

Christchurch did not have a service to the Cook Islands and Air NZ was meeting a market demand, he said.

It had been nine years since Air NZ had been in a position to open new routes "and we are certainly going for it", Thompson said.

NZPA

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AIRWAY
17th Aug 2004, 07:16
Hello,

Isnt Air NZ a government owned company?

Hence using government money, which comes from the taxpayer, which is legal.

If my interpretation is wrong please correct me.

BCF Breath
17th Aug 2004, 07:46
Oh, Diddums :{ What a shame :ugh:

Tape It Shut
17th Aug 2004, 09:40
Innappropriate and last warning

Don Esson
17th Aug 2004, 09:51
Tape It Shut,

You really should tape it up! You must have a very sick and troubled mind to have made the comment you did. Go bag your head!

I hope the moderator silences you. - sooner rather than later.

HAMO
17th Aug 2004, 10:19
This is typical of Virgin's and Huttners attitude when their competitors put a bit of heat on .. making out their competitors are the bad guys in an attempt to get public support.

The Australian Public has grown increasingly tired of their pathetic attempts to undermine their competitors, yet they still go on with the sort of behaviour shown in this article

Get used to the competition lads .. if you cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen!!

Kanga767
17th Aug 2004, 12:26
You know, I've never ever heard anyone in the pub or at a party say,

"Gee, I'm sick of the way XYZ airlines cries foul."

I don't think Joe Public really gives a toss, Hamo.


K

On The Horizon
17th Aug 2004, 13:36
WHOOOOP WHOOOOP
WHINGING ALERT !!!!!

Godfrey's At It Again

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Surely he realises that this wears thin with everyone concerned after a while

If he doesn't get it his way in general,
don't get access to facilities, routes etc, etc, etc

Run to the press the big bad ANZ are capacity dumping on me
What did he expect the ANZ reaction to be ?
ANZ are in business to make money too and are also responsible to shareholders.
Maybe this is lost on BG

Maybe this is something to do with being a POM :E

Cheers
:ok:

126.7
17th Aug 2004, 22:35
I agree their is no need to carry on, however ANZ and others did screw Ansett. It does sort of look like they still have no management or initiative skills. Then again they are a Govt. owned airline.

apache
18th Aug 2004, 00:20
It does sort of look like they still have no management or initiative skills

Who needs iniatative when one can ride someone elses coat-tails ? Why not let VB do the research and marketing, spend the money talking up the new route..... then march in, steal the thunder, then fly it yourself in a more comfortable aircraft ? ...

Sounds like GOOD management to me, IF you can get away with it!

That would be like QF whinging that THEY had the SYD-MEL route first, and that VB were staeling it from them!!!!! .... haven't seen THAT happen.

romansandal
18th Aug 2004, 00:36
It creates good competition, isn't that what VB are all about?

Surely if VB starts on these routes with a 'use us or lose us' attitude with the public, then it just becomes a business decision. If it's not profitable - get out.

Shame on you Virgin Blue, you're better than that.

TIMMEEEE
18th Aug 2004, 03:40
Lets face facts here people - VB always turn around and say "yes, we love competition, it's what sets us apart and we thrive on it.....bring it on" etc etc etc.

So here is a golden opportunity for Virgin to prove their worth.
Only this time lets see how they go without getting handouts for financial assistance from the NZ govt or getting nipped in the bud so to speak by their opposition.

If there was an olympic event for public whinging,whining and bleating Brett Godfrey would win the event hands down !!

Captain Can't
18th Aug 2004, 09:12
Publicity is just that; publicity.

as the saying goes... 'any publicity is good publicity'




(not that I approve of Godfrey's tactics :yuk:)

:hmm:

SkySista
18th Aug 2004, 09:22
Hmmmm.

Seems like a case of the pot calling the kettle black... (or is it the other way around...? ;) )

DJ say that ANZ are nicking their routes, yet they've jumped on Broome not months after XR started it..... who's the copycat now???? :p

Sky

126.7
18th Aug 2004, 09:50
Apache, your response makes sense. I suppose it is a lot like Woolies and Coles. What one does the other does, if they are making money from it!

Jet Man
18th Aug 2004, 19:03
Just sounds like a media stunt of VBs to me.

VB would love ANZ to invest money building the route and then step in and take at least half the passengers.

sinala1
18th Aug 2004, 23:58
VB would love ANZ to invest money building the route and then step in and take at least half the passengers.

Umm I may be incorrect in the way I interpreted the article, but from what I read it was actually the other way around? VB applying for the route etc, then ANZ getting in on it before DJ had the chance to start flying it? :confused: :hmm:

SkySista
19th Aug 2004, 01:42
sinala, I think what Jet Man meant was that if Air NZ had prepped the route and done the 'homework', and DJ got wind of it, you probably wouldn't see DJ holding back on the route and saying, "after you!"

Am I right?

Sky

sinala1
19th Aug 2004, 05:54
Skysista

Sorry to go off track for a second here, but I have the funniest visuals of two aircraft talking to each other on the runway "After you sir..." "Oh thankyou, you are ever so kind" "Oh no, the pleasure truly is mine"

LOL

:p

Wirraway
19th Aug 2004, 06:14
Thurs "Samoa Observer"

The word from the airline bosses on talks at Aggie’s
By Autagavaia Tipi Autagavaia
18 August 2004

Air New Zealand chief executive Ralph Norris and his team were due to return to Auckland on Polynesian Airlines this morning. It follows what he called productive and positive talks with Polynesian Airlines and the Government.

Both Mr Norris and Polynesian Airlines chief executive John Fitzgerald said no commitments had been made yet. But there would be more talks in Apia soon.

Air New Zealand has sent the most high-powered team to take part in a series of talks the Government and Polynesian Airlines have been hosting on possible partnerships or joint ventures.

Australian low-cost airline Virgin Blue was the first to Apia for talks, followed quickly by its Australian rival Qantas.

But Air New Zealand has topped them all on the level of representation it has sent, with Mr Norris himself flying in and bringing two of his general managers.

Mr Norris is one of New Zealand’s leading business executives and one of its most influential.

MINISTER

The talks with the airlines have been initiated by Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Misa Telefoni, the minister responsible for Polynesian.

They have come under the umbrella of the Government’s privatisation policy and the efforts to find a partner for Polynesian.

Misa has made it clear that the Government wants a true partnership and one that will also ensure there is both competition and capacity on flights in and out of here. He says this is important because of both the need to ensure Samoa’s people get good fares, and to provide confidence for tourism hotel developers.

Misa and Mr Fitzgerald were amongst those taking part in the talks held at Aggie Grey’s Hotel.

Mr Norris said that he is looking at opportunities to have close cooperation between the two airlines while discussions are continuing.

LINK

Alongside Polynesian, Air New Zealand is the country’s main international air service provider, including providing the important direct flights between Samoa and Los Angeles.

It is the first visit to Samoa by Mr Norris since he took charge and successfully led the strengthening of the airline after it flew into financial troubles.

Last night Air New Zealand’s local manager, Vui Ricky McFall, and his branch were hosting a dinner for Mr Norris and his group.

Air New Zealand’s links with Samoa go back to the 1950s and flying boat days. The then Tasman Empire Airways Limited (TEAL), which grew into Air New Zealand, operated its famous Coral Route through Samoa.

Aggie’s – where yesterday’s talks were held – was a popular overnight stopover spot with crews and passengers flying this route.

==========================================

SkySista
19th Aug 2004, 06:24
I have the funniest visuals of two aircraft talking to each other on the runway "After you sir..." "Oh thankyou, you are ever so kind" "Oh no, the pleasure truly is mine"

Lol, that's a good one... though I'm sure in reality it'd have each muttering something derogatory about the other's country of origin/affinity for certain grazing animals afterward - rather like Pprune sometimes, really! :E

Sorry, back on topic now.....

Hmm, I see Virgin Blue was the first to Apia for talks, followed quickly by its Australian rival Qantas. but I don't hear DJ calling QF copycats... maybe it's Air NZ they have the beef with?

Sky

ZK-NSN
22nd Aug 2004, 02:38
Virgin blue seem surprised at AirNZ tactic's, what did they expect? They do the same in the NZ regional system, Origin said it would start a direct HN-CH route, AIRNZ followed suit, Origin said it could'nt compete with ANZ price and A/c type and backed off. Origin cried like a school girl about it and nobody (including the commerce commision) gave a toss. They (airnz) want to make money not freinds so they can pay back the taxpayer (plus intrest i hope!).

p.s I had heard they are doing good with that route too.