Boscastle Rescues

[Scud-U-Like]

Congratulations to the SAR crews who showed such skill and bravery at Boscastle today.

One can only hope those so far unaccounted for are alive and well. Very sad to see a place I know and love devastated like that.

[Archimedes]

Beat me to it with starting a thread, S-U-L, so I'll echo your comments, if I may.

[adr]

Amen. Hats off, too, to those controlling the operation. It looks like prompt invocation of the county emergency plan and MACC may have kept this disaster from turning into a tragedy.

adr

[lasernigel]

Agree with all comments.
Well done guys a really good job.
The worry is that with all the defence cuts will this sort of rescue be possible in say 2 years time?Or will the poor souls awaiting rescue have to rely on some 9-5 civilian contract service??

[canuck slf]

Link below is RAF video from SAR on BBC website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39962000/rm/_39962772_floods_footage_vi.ram

[The Swinging Monkey]

Yes, Echo everything said before.
Outstanding work yet again by our SAR crews, and nice to see the three Helo rescure services working together, well done.

We salute you all
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, raise a glass to all the SAR crews, whoever, and wherever they may be'

[teeteringhead]

Yes indeed, an excellent performance from superbly professional crews (and me an old SH mate too.....)

One technical question which perhaps a sarbo(u)y can answer. On the very good BBC coverage this morning, there appeared to be a number of single lifts of survivors, and one (I think) double lift with what appeared to be two survivors (certainly two apparent civvies - on reflection I spose one could be MRT).

I thought single lifts (in UK) were only for "trained" people .... any comment from an Angel of Mercy?

[and of course wonderful timing as the SAR Force may well be targetted in "cuts"!:ok: ]

[ppf]

Well done chaps!

Must say it was very impressive watching the footage of RAF, RN and Coastguard helicopters in doing what they do best! Was a bit hairy when a Coastguard chopper hovered a bit to close to an aerial as seen on Sky News!

Well done again its good to see the SAR world get much deserved praise and good press.

ppf :ok:

[dh108]

One of the news reporters said that 3 months worth of rescues had been done in a day. Must be pretty exhausting that. If I did 3 months work in a day my boss would be quite happy.

Difficult to imagine what it must be like for those affected: one moment an ordinary day, the next moment clinging to the roof of your house with a raging torrent beneath you and an awfully nice chap with a safety harness swinging down from a helicopter.

[Anton Meyer]

Truly an outstanding achievement in the field of excellence....and great corporate communications-type work too.

It would appear the SAR boys have secure jobs for the next few years then.

:ok:

[WorkingHard]

Why was the spokesman from Kinloss when all the action was in Devon?

[ppf]

WorkingHard I believe the spokesman was from Kinloss as the ARCC was co-ordinating it. Michael Mulford works with the ARCC I think and as such puts out press statements.

ppf ;)

[Mad_Mark]

Why was the spokesman from Kinloss when all the action was in Devon?

Because Kinloss is the home of the ARCC (Aeronautical Rescue Coordination Centre), and as such the rescue efforts were coordinated from there.

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

{Doh, I see PPF got in there whilst I was typing :O }

[tyne]

I should like to add my admiration.

I am a Journalist - I do a lot of work with the military and fly in a lot of helos.

I interviewed one of the 771 Sq guys today for a radio package on yesterday's events.

Sheets of rain, low visibility, water coming into the cab coms shorting out, multiple rescues, overhead wires, back to base late and then some daft hack like myself comes on the 'phone wanting an interview.

Today I spoke to a man with more experience in his little finger than I and many others will get in a lifetime.

Big respect mate, thanks for getting up to give us the interview. i guess you never heard it down in Cornwall but I hope it was a fair and accurate account of what happened.

Not all of us hacks are bad boys...But none of us - whatever we do for a living - hold a candle to the men and women in SAR.

[PPRuNe Pop]

HUGE respect guys. Fantastic flying - some of the very best I have seen. You must have filled the hundreds of eyes of those who could only stand and stare, and admire. Brilliant! :ok:

[Report@Boddam]

well done to all the sar crews on a job done good.

Just a point on lasernigel's comment on about nine to five civilians. One of the helicopters was a coastguard chopper rescue 'WB' from portland. They are also on standby 24hr's a day.

It would be a sad day if we lost our military sar crews but don't forget the sterling work done by the Coastguard choppers.

R@B

[[email protected]]

Teetering head - the requirement was to get the casualties out of the buildings (some of which were collapsing) quickly so the RAF crews used double strop lifts (2 survivors) with the winchman on the roof placing them in the strops. The RN crews seemed to have a different SOP and established hi-line contact with the winchman placing one casualty at a time in a single strop which took much longer.
Comms were a bit of a nightmare with the ARRCK trying to control the ac on HF (v noisy), Falmouth CG using channel 0 and being stepped on by Swansea, and all the ac on 123.1. Add to that the howling from wet intercom leads (we got there first in the middle of a thunderstorm), the lightning strikes around the high ground and the hail and it was a sporting old afternoon.
My worry on arrival was that there were people trapped in the cars that were being swept down the river to the sea - that would have been an interesting winching scenario!

[airborne_artist]

Has anyone else noticed that Boscastle is almost equidistant from Culdrose and Chivenor?

When picking your holiday destination, check that SAR helos are based close by.

[ppf]

Just been watching Sky News and they are up at the ARCC doing live interviews, nothing as yet from the brave crews.

Well done again on a job well done :ok:

[[email protected]]

Points to ponder for those planning to close St Mawgan - a scratch OCU crew were on scene at Boscastle very quickly and at least 3 ac refuelled at St Mawgan during the op.
When the SABR SAR guys show thier slides of likely SAR locations using future, more capable (faster) ac, they cannot cater for this sort of mass requirement for helilift. 6 SAR ac (5 Sea King and 1 S61) were available on scene within an hour - something that just wouldn't be possible with wider dispersed SAR flights.

[allan907]

Got a very short news item tonight on ABC in Western Australia. Looks horrific - a place I have very fond memories of on leave. The only footage that we had was of the RAF SAR Sea Kings. Filled me chest with pride it did. Well done guys.

[Squadgy]

Heard on the news last night that one SAR crew had rescued 55 people with a few hours - fantastic work under very difficult conditions - the tail of the Sea Kings looked very close to the side of the valley. Worthy of AFCs for all the crews perhaps ?

[Man-on-the-fence]

A truly amazing operation which just goes to prove once again that the men and women of our Armed Forces (I include the Coastguard in this too) are the best in the world.

To paraphrase, you held the lives and hopes of the people of Boscastle in your two sweaty palms, and didnt let them fall.

Thank you.

[unclenelli]

That's what happens when 2 Jags jumps in a river to save a canoeist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[surely not]

Tremendous respect to all the pilots involved in this operation. The news pictures were exciting, so goodness knows what it was like to be involved! What really came over was the cramped conditions the valley gave you all to work in.

Great effort, enjoy your beers
:)

[adr]

That's what happens when 2 Jags jumps in a river to save a canoeist! :D

Yes, if a butterfly can start a tornado (no, not that sort) by fluttering its wings, then it stands to reason his lardship could have quite an effect by jumping in the water.

adr

[Hueymeister]

Made I proud it did..well done chaps, Crabs, closet Pingers and Coastguard alike. Well done.

[dh108]

The BBC 10 o'clock news just gave these figures:

First emergency call at 16:03
First helicopter arrives at 16:21

120 people airlifted to safety in 4 hours - presumably most of them needed to be winched out of danger.
The reports have said that 7 helicopters were involved.
So, after a bit of calculator button-pressing, I reckon that works out as as an average of 1 person rescued every 14 minutes over that 4 hour period - in conditions of complete chaos, with the ground-based services acting as spotters for the aircrews, and with the weather causing radio communications problems, and in terrain that looked very cramped for that number of helicopters.

I wouldn't describe myself as someone easily impressed, but those figures look like an impressive work rate to me.

[SPIT]

On the ITN News some MP congratulated the ARMY and aby other services that were there.
I did not know the Army was there, I have seen RAF, RN,Fire Police and Coastguards, also a couple of Amb Men but NO ARMY?? Am I wrong if so could somebody Please tell me:confused: :confused:

[TAC Queen]

very well done indeed.
P.S like the two jags comment and can a butterfly really start a tornado you must need somthing more powerfull????.

To all in the SAR force hats off to you.:ok: :ok: :ok:

[ck4707]

Thank God I am a Brit and living in this awful place called Great Briton.

Always very reassuring to know that when the s**t hits the fan there is always someone there to bail you out.

As the saying goes "When the going gets tough the tough get going"

Although not involved in Boscatle, thanks for being there guys!!

[Scud-U-Like]

SPIT

No, there were no Army there. It was just a (perhaps forgivable) slip by the Environment Minister, Ben Bradshaw, being interviewed live. I think he was concentrating on the topography/freak weather part of his brief, in anticipation of the rather predictable, "Could this have been prevented?" journo question.

[teeteringhead]

crab@
thanks for the info, I guessed it was probably something like that. Still must experess total respect for all involved.

Now if only my computer-out drums had been a bit better at Valley in 19-canteen .......

And I think crab@ , that we may figure briefly in each other's logbooks many moons ago.......;)

[Big Tudor]

I would like to add my name to the list of appreciative commenters on this thread. Just watching it on the news was bad enough, to have been there must have been fairly hair raising. It was a blooming impressive sight, seeing 7 helo's working in such close proximity to each other, the ground, overhead wires and buildings. Good job the local Health & Safety bod wasn't looking! ;)
Perhaps it's just me but there was something typically British about the whole thing. No major sense of panic, no overtly macho displays of heroism, just people helping others in their moment of need. The restaurant owner approaching guests tucking into their cream teas and politely asking them if they would mind moving upstairs. The comment that really clinched it though was one of the Sea King crews recalling rescueing an elderly lady who had a "bit of an injured hand." Masters of the understatement!

[SPIT]

Hi Scud U Like
Dont get me wrong I have nothing but a great respect for the Army and all that they do but dont you think that a Govt Minister should be more aquainted with all the facts first, after all if you or I made a similar incorrect statement we would never hear the end of it from our collegues ??? :confused: :confused: still

[Trinity 09L]

If any politician or MOD bod starts on SAR then it is a vote loser BIG time, my congrats to Boscastle and now the Scottish crews.
Rant over:*

[TheNightOwl]

I watched the same footage on the East coast as allan907 in the West and, as an ex-202 man (from Whirlwind days) I'd like to add my admiration and congratulations to ALL concerned. A difficult job, well done with the expected professionalism.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[Cat5 in the Hat]

Congrats to all at both locations.

I used to watch 202 Sqn (E flt?) from the Northern Grass at Manston, when we used to share the air with them & No. 1 AEF.

Was a sad day when they pulled 202 from Manston (closest SAR to the busiest piece of sea anywhere I seem to recall).

You guys really mad the effort. Top Marks.

C5itH

[SARcasm]

Congrats to everyone, but especially the old crowd at Chiv. Imagine my surprise to see the footage on French TV and to hear the tones of Dark over the airways. Shame about the hover....

Footage from the new turret looks good, glad to see it has some uses.

Gald I didn't have to do all the paaperwork afterwards...

Regards to all.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I was at the GAPAN Trophies and Awards Banquet last night and had the great pleasure of seeing the crew of 'Rescue 193' receive a standing ovation as they each received due recognition for their bravery and skills at Boscastle on that dreadful day. The GAPAN award they received was the Prince Philip Helicopter Rescue Award.

I spoke to three of them and they were truly grateful for the comments you wrote at the time. All VERY unassuming "just doing a job." I won't put their names up here. I don't think that would be right.

However, I gave them each a PPRuNe badge which they said they would wear. I also said I would send an invoice later ;) :D :D :D :D

Its amazing how ordinary great heroes are!

PPP and all at the Towers.

[navibrator]

The term heroes is an overused word in this modern age. However, as a FJ guy who has worked closely with the people who fly and support SAR crews, I take my hat off to them all.

They are the very best of the best! Long may they continue and lets hope we don't see this capability totally civilianized like so many others!

[BossEyed]

GAPAN citation here (http://www.gapan.org/committees/trophies/04pheli.htm)

I doff my cap to you, gentlemen.

[[email protected]]

What a f888ing load of old bo**ocks - this just goes to show what the Navy PR machine is capable of. Boscastle was an interesting job but no more than that - the flying skills required were not a patch on those needed for a dodgy night deck or a mountain rescue and these rescues are undertaken on a daily basis without the crews getting GAPAN awards or even worse, proper medals that previously demanded proper bravery and skill to earn.
The only guys who deserved medals were the winchmen - not the pilots and not the winch operators - hovering over a house is not difficult (I know cos I was there).
The RN crew got in the way because they were doing single strop lifts (they only had the one) with an intercom failure when there were 2 RAF Sea Kings queuing behind them, fully serviceable and with lots of strops.
The RN crew declared the 'major incident' which it wasn't as all the winching could have been, and mostly was, done with 2 helicopters - there was only room for one at a time in the village.
Strange that the RN agreed with the RAF that only the winchmen would be honoured and then changed their minds and started handing out AFCs because the PR footage (from the RAF aircraft) was so good.
BTW R169 was the one hovering over the village in the thunderstorm cos we were first there not R193.
R170 were the guys who did the lions share of the rescuing and acted as on scene commander (something that 193 said they would do on arrival and then ignored).
Rant over.

[STAN DEASY]

Crab

Are you a sad twisted self-serving egotist?.

Surely you must get greater satisfaction from being an unsung hero. Lets face it, you won't have to polish your shoes, clean your kit or have to look good for the photos.

Consider yourself lucky not to have been nominated (or is that what you really wanted?)

[[email protected]]

Frankly Stan, I would feel cheap if someone pinned a medal to my chest when it wasn't deserved - the award of an AFC usually means you have performed some extraordinary feat of airmanship and bravery - hovering over a pitching trawler in a Force 10 in the dark sort of stuff.
Boscastle was not an AFC job.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Anyway, if this thread gets on a sour grape trip its off! Whoever and whatever, it was considered and applied. It is a worthy story - but obviously not to some........................but like I said.

PPP

[Pierre Argh]

hovering over a pitching trawler in a Force 10 in the dark Both the RAF and RN have plenty of that sort of stuff in the record books... and are rightly proud of it. There is also an amazing amount of inter-service bickering (most based on nothing more than rumour and half-truths). Boscastle crews got a medal, was it more or less deserving than other awards? It is sad, but probably a fact, nowadays that media attention is a likely trigger for awards. Does it devalue them... probably, but in the same way a Sqn Boss gets a DFC "on behalf" of the collective efforts of the squadron... I've always though that was devaluing too?

[[email protected]]

So PPrunePop, what you are saying is 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'.

[cobaltfrog]

I have to say that the Navy is usually very, indeed no, extremely bad at writing and forwarding people for Gallantry awards compared to the RAF. One only has to look at the amount of DFC's awarded for TELIC 1 to see that the Navy came off bad for what was an equal performance with the RAF on the insert at Al Faw and the subsequent support to 3 Cdo Bde RM. The fact that Florrie got an AFC therefore, must mean that the crew deserved it! (an assumption as I wasn't at Boscastle!)

[airborne_artist]

I have to say that the Navy is usually very, indeed no, extremely bad at writing and forwarding people for Gallantry awards

Much the same for Op Corporate, I believe. My father was very heavily involved in it from the well befiore the start (he was called at home to be told about the "scrap merchants" landing on S Georgia). His proposed CBE was deferred due to internal warring/spinelessness over award rationing, and so was dished out in the NY honours that followed. OK, he got it, but it always left a sour taste with me that he didn't get on the South Atlantic list.

[Bismark]

Crab...,

It is sad to see the SAR world appearing so bitter as I thought they were all v professional in their business. You may be completely right in what you say and in your a/c all was hunky dory. But this does not appear to have been the case in R193 and no matter what was happening elsewhere what that crew did (speechless rescues) appears to have been pretty outstanding and deserving of the award.

Grow up.

[[email protected]]

Bismark - your lack of knowledge of SAR is evident in your post - yes doing speechless rescues is more difficult - and if you are the only asset you have to get on with it. BUT - when there are others who can do the job quicker (important when lives are at stake) then it is not professional or outstanding to get in the way.

Know what you are talking about before you start taking a pop at others.

[Bismark]

Crab...,

I was involved in SAR for several years and can imagine the scene perfectly. From the point at which their comms failed what 195 actually achieved seems pretty good to me. I suspect that from that point their whole focus was inside the a/c rather than who was queuing up behind them.

If R170 was Scene of Action Commander why did they not tell 195 to p..e off?

B

[Bluntend]

Shortly after the Boscastle event I received a phone call from a friend who had two other friends holidaying in Boscastle at the time of the flood. Both were rescued by the SAR teams and my friend wanted me to pass on their (and his) gratitude. Since I have nothing to do with SAR crews and know nothing about SAR Ops (thought I'd better get that in before the "Bluntend, you obviously know nothing about..." banter starts) I have had no opportunity to pass on their message. I thought, therefore, that this is as good a forum as any. So, on behalf of some unfortunate holidaymakers a belated yet heart-felt thankyou to all involved.

Right, I'll let you get back your bickering...;)

[portwait]

Crab

In my time I was deeply involved in SAR at both 771 and 819.

Couldn't agree with you more in the fact that the flying skills required were not a patch on night mountain work.

However must congratulate the guys as it is about time the RN recognised what SAR crews do, hopefully they will now realise what is done at Prestwick, but I doubt it as I hear all nominations must go through Culdrose and we woudn't want to upset the centre for SAR excellence that is 771

[Tourist]

Must concur, the simple fact is however that in todays world it didnt happen unless a camera saw it, so you never get citations for the really tricky ones. About time the RN put some people forward. Its a bit cheeky for Crab to be complaining about Navy boys when the RAF have given out a few AFC's for SAR in the not so distant past.
Just think of the awards as credit for all the other unsung scary moments.
And yes I have been on 819 and 771.
As to whether you should get medals at all on a dedicated SAR sqn is another question.

[[email protected]]

Bluntend, you obviously know nothing about.............. no I am not suggesting a good job was not done on the day, only that it was a straighforward winchex off a roof and therefore (other than the winchmen who were being put through windows and between power cables etc) there was no extraordinary skill involved deserving of AFCs (even our winchmen only got Queens Commendations).

Bismark - R193 arrived second on scene and agreed to be OSC (On Scene Commander) as we were already winching an urgent casualty. I advised him to check the cars that were in the river and the harbour as the CG on the ground was tasking us directly. As we moved our casualty to the helimed helo in the football field, 193 dropped into the valley and spent an age getting his winchman down before starting single lifts off the Visitor Centre roof. We could not get him to respond to the RT (possibly due to his intercom snag) and so we left for fuel shortly after 170 arrived and took over OSC.

[leopold bloom]

Crab has hit the nail on the head, those of us who were there were ashamed of the subsequent ballyhoo and particularly the awards that were made.

[Bismark]

To sum this thread up I guess SAR awards will always be controversial - the "we were just doing our job" syndrome. But occasionally a rescue captures the public imagination and awards result. Despite the comments above I still think 193 did an outstanding job in v difficult circumstances as I am sure did others. I fthe awards and subsequent publicity remind the public of the existence of the UK SAR force and the risks they put themselves to then the internal controversy is probably worth it.

[Decks]

I fly an S61 for the CHC on contract to the Irish Coastguard and what I see here sums up the biggest problem in SAR and thats the f****ing egos of some of those involved.
WELL DONE to all at Boscastle. Clearly lots of lives were saved. Thats the biggest medal of them all.
The USCG lifted 6000 people in the days after Katrina...well done to them too.

[ddsd200-7]

I would like to pass on my congratulations to all the crews, of whatever cadre, honoured for Boscastle over the last year. Most recently the FAA crew by GAPAN, the award dinner is an excellent event and the Guild only ever honours those that they feel truly deserve it. It is a shame that certain fellow members of the SAR community feel the need to "rant" about who deserves what award and what they did to receive it compared to others. I’m sure that the crew of 193 feel slightly embarrassed about all the media attention that has followed in the last 14 months and did not ask or expect any of it. Reading the letters of thanks from those rescued was probably thanks enough. The simple fact that the crew were also put forward for military awards without their knowledge and that the final decision was made by representatives from all 3 services speaks volumes.

We all agree that hovering over a house is not difficult. The situation facing 193 that day, near zero vis, intercom failure, a flooded aircraft and people needing rescuing, obviously made hovering, manoeuvring and especially winching extremely difficult. The fact that 193 were able to rescue people at all that day was surely only achievable by total crew cooperation and good leadership by the Aircraft Commander.

Believe that the Aircraft Commander was also the “winch op” for that day: but of course you already knew that crab@SAA.

BZ to all involved.

[FJJP]

I spent almost 40 year in light blue and had an almost child-like admiration for those that worked the yellow budgie or equivalent. So much did I admire [and envy?] the SAR force that I tried on several occasions to crossover to rotary, with the hope of joining that elite bunch.

Honours and awards are a fickle thing at the best of times [it took me a year to get a citation for an AFC approved for a worthy individual]. It saddens me that there is even 1 adverse comment about an award made to the most worthy part of the Armed Forces.

This thread should have been full of BZ [to use the American expression] for the crew that received the award. They know who did what and were probably embarrassed to have been singled out in this way.

Can we please stop this bickering, accept the awards lottery and agree that all did a magnificent life-saving job, no matter who got a citation from the most prestigeous body in aviation...

FJJP

[[email protected]]

ddsd200-7 - you're not from 771 NAS by any chance are you?

It is not sour grapes on my part, although I was first on scene I did only the first rescue, our second standby, 170, did the lions share of the rescuing.
Someone somewhere in the Navy hierarchy took an unequal view on who did what and who deserved what, not me. They decided to recommend AFCs when the RAF didn't and that is my beef - the crew of 170 deserved at least as much praise as 193 - how pi88ed off do you think they feel as others are paraded as the 'Heroes of Boscastle'. If the RN were going to write their crew up for medals, why didn't they have the decency to inform the RAF.
I am all for praising those who receive awards when those awards are justified by their actions and not by a PR machine out of control.

[timex]

"They decided to recommend AFCs when the RAF didn't and that is my beef - the crew of 170 deserved at least as much praise as 193 - how pi88ed off do you think they feel as others are paraded as the 'Heroes of Boscastle'. If the RN were going to write their crew up for medals, why didn't they have the decency to inform the RAF."

Since when did any of the Services have to inform each other that they were going to push for awards?

I can only assume that this time the RAF PR machine fell down.

[Droopystop]

What a load of ........

The real heros are the engineeing staff at Chiv and Culdrose for managing to get so many servicable cabs in the air at the same time. Yes tongue is in cheek, but come on guys you forget that SAR is a team effort and those who present you crews with an aircraft deserve to be remembered too. Not to mention the CG, Fire brigade, air ambulance, ambulance, police,.......

Getting medals for doing your job........ its not like someone was being shot at.

[cobaltfrog]

No quite right because then it would be a DFC!!!!

[[email protected]]

Timex, the RAF SARFHQ talked to the RN and agreed the policy that only the winchmen would get awards - then the RN changed their mind (an over-egged write up perhaps) and went for medals.
The RAF PR machine is the one that got all the footage onto the TV.

Droopystop - you are absolutely correct.

[ddsd200-7]

Crab
the RN declared a "major incident" which it wasnt
I was under the impression that a quote “Major Incident” was any event whose impact cannot be handled within routine service arrangements. It requires the implementation of special procedures by one or more of the emergency services, the NHS, or a Local Authority to respond to it. unquote.

But of course you already knew that Crab....week one, day one basic SAR protocols really!


URL=http://http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/EmergencyPlanning/EmergencyPlanningArticle/fs/en?CONTENT][/URL] refers



Frankly Stan, I would feel cheap if someone pinned a medal to my chest when it wasn't deserved

Lucky then that the “Swiftwater Rescue International Award" is not a medal (sure looks like one on the website though)[

[Bigtop]

Crab@SAAV - U R a bitter and twisted soul. I would guess at many years man and boy, seen a bit of action but not as much as you'd have liked and feel worthy of more recognition than the Service has seen fit to bestow upon you. Welcome to my world too but I don't begrudge those who have been honoured.

Makes a change for the RN to get some good rescue PR, and well deserved. And what is this perception you have of the childish, schoolboy antics being played. I won't write mine up if you won't write yours up. No wonder we can still hold our heads proud as the Senior Service whilst you play childish games.

And carry on watching with envy as I believe there R more honours/awards in the wings for R193, and rightly so.

And finally if all you can bleat about is that they got in the way, and didn't assume OSC as declared then were is your CLM to take charge and get them out of the way - missing obviously!! Hence they struggled on and were awarded not U!!

Rant over.

R193 - good effort and well done.

[STAN DEASY]

Crab

When I replied to your post on 27th Oct, I thought I might have been a tad harsh.

Thankfully your subsequent posts have disbused me of that notion and I realise that I was far too reserved in my observation regarding your posts.

Your posts do neither you nor your service any credit but then I suppose we must indulge the comments as you are merely a product of Cranwell and your system and underneth the insecurities you are probably a nice bloke but just misguided by a service that considers non-fast jet flyers as worthless and non fixed wing as scum. With that sort of baggage I can only pity you and treat your coments with the sympathy normally reserved for the intellectually challenged members of our society.

Regards

Stan

[The Rocket]

Stan,

Steady on old boy!!! That's a bit of a rash generalisation isn't it!!:oh:

Take as much umbrage with Crab as you like, but please don't go blaming Cranwell and "The System" for indoctrinating everyone who passes through with the same attitude! Not all of us have the same attitude and opinions as Mr Crab.

:ok:

Why have I been the mediator in my last few posts???!!!. Very unlike me!!

[PPRuNe Pop]

I somehow regret bringing this thread back to life. I didn't imagine it would result in a slanging match between the RN and RAF. The system for awards is quite obviously lacking but I suppose we should be thankful that Rescue 193 now carries the honours for all. At least, that it what I like to think.

I think I will close the thread and hope that anyone who demonstrates courage beyond the call will henceforth be recognised.