BA Bank Holiday Chaos

[easyprison]

From BBC;

The GMB industrial action is scheduled for either 27, 28, 29 or 30 August and is set to cause chaos over one of the year's busiest periods for travel.

The strike will affect only Heathrow and Gatwick and is set to run from 0330 GMT until 0330 GMT the following day.

Six UK airports could be hit, however, if more BA employees vote to strike in a TGWU ballot due later this week.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3567576.stm

[Paterbrat]

It would be interesting to see exactly how many of the counter staff actualy voted to strike, some of the comments attributed to the union spokepeople about the pay rises seemed pretty nonsensical. If a pay rise is greater than inflation then one is patently not going backwards. If one deliberately damages the system that pays one then that, to most people, would seem to be a retrograde step. The quality of leadership in some of the more militant of our institutions purporting to protect the underdog sometimes appears to create more hardship than it protects from. An observation I have no doubt will be disagreed with by it's supporters. I am not anti-union per se however sometimes however they appear to be hijacked by a small minority who then engineer confrontation that is not really suported by rank and file membership.

[Jet II]

It would be interesting to see exactly how many of the counter staff actualy voted to strike

Is that relevant? - would you be asking the same question if the result of the ballot had been in favour of accepting the pay rise?

If a pay rise is greater than inflation then one is patently not going backwards.

It will only be greater than inflation if we accept the unpensionable option - even then you could argue that accepting pay rises that are unpensionable is a retrograde step.

[eal401]

This will have a severe impact on BA customers, so there's not much chance of the management too being bothered.

[BahrainLad]

Hmmm.....2600 eligible to vote, 48% turnout and of that, 53% in favour.

So a grand total of 662 votes for a strike......hardly the level of support the brothers would have you believe.....

[Jet II]

So a grand total of 662 votes for a strike......hardly the level of support the brothers would have you believe.....

Works out to about 25% of the electorate - which just happens to be the same as voted Labour at the last election.

If 25% is good enough to run the country surely the same percentage at BA is as much of a democratic mandate?

[ojs]

Jet II , I would agree with you to a point: but the difference with this ballot and an election is that in an election, everybody who's impacted gets the chance to vote. That's not the case at BA.

My sympathy was lost when the Unions refused to go to binding arbitration without even asking their members what they thought of the scheme.

[kaikohe76]

If the strike goes ahead, it can only be good news for Easyjet
, Ryanair etc. Eventhough there appears to be only a rather modest majority in favour of industrial action, is this really the way for our major airline to behave. sets a really good example.
Oh well most of the pax affected will only be economy and we know what BA reallt think of these travellers!

[Stampe]

Actually BA are by far the best Uk airline to fly economy with !Working for a Uk charter airline I position with them round the Uk most weeks,allocated seating,free and excellent snacks and drinks,free newspapers,invariably punctual and with staff who are generally good and one can have confidence in.When travelling on my own account ex LGW I find their fares consistently competitive and considering the extras compared to the lo service carriers its no contest.There were problems with the 73 fleet at LGW lastweek and I found myself transported in style to Manchester in a 777 just 20 minutes late impressive back up.I,m confident BA will still be here long after the lo service carriers have done an Air Europe!!! quality wins. ;)Having had thirty years in the industry I feel safe confident and comfortable flying with BA not a feeling engendered by my experieces on the lo service carriers

[BahrainLad]

Works out to about 25% of the electorate - which just happens to be the same as voted Labour at the last election.



....and in a general election you have more than one choice (in fact, loads) which reduces the pluralist result rather than the majority.

In an "election" where there is a simple either/or, 25% does not give you a mandate.

[akerosid]

I wonder what recourse customers have against the union as a result of this. As I see it, pax have a contract with BA to fly them wherever they're going and if the unions obstruct or frustrate this contract, then surely pax have either a right of action (including injunctive relief) against the unions.

I appreciate that the unions feel they have a grievance and naturally want to use the busiest bank holiday of the year as a bargaining chip, but it hardly seems fair that pax can be put through the misery of threats like this on a regular basis.

I wonder how BA's bookings are suffering as a result of this? When, if at all, do they become responsible for changing the travel plans of pax?

[ABird747]

Why would they be any more responsible than when ASLEF brings London to a standstill?

[Fester T Adams]

I'm due to fly with BA in early September just after the bank holiday weekend, so I know selfishly I hope I will miss the fallout from this strike should it go ahead. However my commiserations go out to any pax whose journeys are affected by it. During my trip I'm also scheduled to use two other airlines, a local airline & United, I've just been informed rightly or wrongly that both of these airlines are voting on strike action too. :mad:

What is it with airlines, they seem to have discontented staff almost right across the board. Worse they seem to have selfish staff right across the board who have no consideration or concern for their customers & get back at their employers by hurting their innocent pax. All they will succeeed in doing is alienating Joe Public even more against them at one of the most popular weekends for airtravel in the UK, & no doubt lose any wish for many customers to fly with them again. Far from BA once being the worse proud, reliable brand name that it was, to many pax including me its brand name & image is fast going down the toilet. :mad:

I mean can BA afford another drastic customer relations fiasco like this after their similar one last year. At the rate alot of you airline staff are going you'll be lucky if you've any jobs to go to if you continue to behave in this selfish vein without an iota of consideration & concern for your pax. :mad:

If any of you stupid airlines screw up my travel arrangements you WILL hear about it & be made to feel the brunt, believe you me. :mad:

Happy flying everybody. :rolleyes:

[norodnik]

yet another short sighted decision from those at the union seeking their 15 minutes of fame.

Most of us humans are lucky enough to have 2 feet. If the job is so crap, and the pay so awful, why not go somewhere else.

The world is full of in-equality, just because the boss gets paid a bit more is no reason to expect you will too, despite the fact that you may deserve it.

The law of supply and demand dictates who gets what. If BA's ticket prices rise above a competetive level then we won't need the checkin staff anyway, and hey presto they will be out of a job.

On an broadly unrelated topic, I have just been to JNB and had my baggage "lost" for 9 days and when returned to me, it had been broken into and was all soaking wet. I made over 80 unanswered phone calls to BA in the UK and SA trying to find out what was happening trying to locate my bag. Seems like there is a serious morale problem.

[Fester T Adams]

Well said norodnik & my commiserations over your bag fiasco. See Ryanair are in deep trouble for a similar episode, a customers bag was returned to him after it went missing for a few weeks. Inside was a camera & when he got the film developed there was a pic of a FR baggage handler manhandling his bag, seemingly outside the baggage handling area. Turns out they'd broken into this pax luggage, taken the camera out, taken a picture of themselves & replaced the camera. Could rate as one of the most stupid employees ever. :rolleyes:

Sorry for diverting from the topic, now back to BA. :} :mad:

[CARR30]

Good to see that a thread on a BA strike has turned so readily into Ryanair bashing.

[Have you heard this!]

Well I don't blame the BA check-in staff going on strike, their pay is disgusting about £12,000 PA inc. unsocial hours, and thats tops. Most of the staff at MAN are part time as they won't employ full time people. It's one of the worst pay at any UK airports.

Unfortunately it's the only way to get people to listen.
It's up to the management they either pay up or it will cost them millions the ball is in their court.

[Fester T Adams]

I am NOT FR bashing (though I wouldn't mind hitting MOL over the head every now & then) & I'm sorry for veering off the subject, it is just that norodniks post reminded me of this incident I read today & I thought readers would find it humorous & interesting. I was merely stating a current incident that I felt would have been of interest to the readership here. :O

[Buster the Bear]

So what is the deal offered by management and refused by staff via a democratic ballot and therefore what was the reasoning by the union for refusing a management proposed binding arbitration?

Staff have paid the price for downturn in travel post Sept 11th etc, but deserve a reward when times are better and profits are high? You can only 'shaft' folk a few times, then they bite back or walk, at £12,000 per year, that is less than £250 per week, what do these staff have to lose by pushing for better money?

This is a battle between staff and management, from events last year, both sides seem intent on damaging their business this time. No winners here I feel. Passengers are of no seeming concequence!
http://whipsnade.co.uk/picturelibrary/jpeg150/br/brown_bear_120_wide.jpg

[ABird747]

they seem to have discontented staff almost right across the board. Worse they seem to have selfish staff right across the board who have no consideration or concern for their customers

Do you think the decisions to strike has been taken lightly? Our check-in staff have been backed into a corner by their management over the last 4-5 years. Can you imagine what pressure you have to put a section of the workforce that by its demographic (mostly middle aged and female)is not militant to come to a decision like this?

us humans are lucky enough to have 2 feet. If the job is so crap, and the pay so awful, why not go somewhere else

That's exactly what people are doing. The turnover in the terminals is so high because people join the airline not realising that when they finally get to do the job they are so short of staff as to be run ragged. As far as the pay goes; would you rather interact with people who are good at their jobs and have 2 braincells to rub together? If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Why not pay people a decent wage that they can support themselves on so that you retain staff who are enjoy and are good at their jobs.

just because the boss gets paid a bit more is no reason to expect you will too

No one expects to be paid as much as our leadership team, all we wish for is to be treated fairly. We were told that if we tightened our belts during the hard times we would be rewarded when the pressure let off a bit. When the airline makes £150m profit in a quarter, staff who have taken a net pay cut over the past 5 years expect something in return. Arguments that US staff are taking pay cuts are simply not valid in this context. Our productivity is much higher than our US counterparts. I have compared my works patterns with other US crew and have found that I work on average 40-45% more than they do and am still paid less.

had my baggage "lost" for 9 days and when returned to me, it had been broken into and was all soaking wet. I made over 80 unanswered phone calls to BA in the UK and SA trying to find out what was happening trying to locate my bag.

Perhaps a visit to the airport to see exactly what happens when there is a period of such intense disruption as there was during the summer storms would be in order. Your bag was probably opened during screening before it was dispatched to you. So much luggage mis-connected because, as you will know, so many flights were cancelled (you may have noticed it rained a little which would have explained the wetness of your bag) . You made it to your next flight because you have 2 legs to walk when you're rebooked. You suitcase does not. When things go so wrong there simply isn't the manpower to re-screen (which is what takes the most time) and redistribute your bag onto a suitable service. Neither is there room to keep the misconnected luggage inside due to the design of airport terminals.

If any other industry goes on strike people have a little grumble and a carp and then get on with it. The tube, the benefits office, the post-office et al... Whenever an airline goes on strike it's open season, why is it that employees of other companies can expect to be able to exercise their right (and it is a right that EVERYONE has) to strike whereas airline employees cannot?

Oh, and on a final note...

If any of you stupid airlines screw up my travel arrangements you WILL hear about it & be made to feel the brunt, believe you me

How about growing up a little? Tantrums are rarely attractive, especially in people who should have the maturity and self control to know better.

[Paterbrat]

Agree whole heartedly, tantrums are rarely attractive and generally from people who should know better, ie the union reps who appear to have caculatedly thrown a tantrum and are all for spoiling tactics. If the pay is so awful then why are the slots being filled, and by describing the counterstaff as 'monkeys' working for 'peanuts' would seem to be as counterproductice as bringing the airline down. If any other industry goes on strike everyone carps a little... wrong!!! Most people hold their heads in wonder at underground maligerers who get sacked for playing squash when they should have been ill and London is brought to a halt so the unions can re-instate their man. or perhaps the collection of drink cans that just happened to accumulate but nobody either drank or was responsible, or the firemen who want massive rises and are outraged that anybody could be used instead of them if and when they do decide to strike. It is unions and situations like these that make the average citizen think them a plague of trouble makers who seem hellbent on nothing but confrontation and strife.

[Jet II]

BahrainLad

In an "election" where there is a simple either/or, 25% does not give you a mandate.

So if the vote had gone the other way to accept the pay offer then that wouldn't have given a mandate for it to be accepted?:hmm:

Face facts - many people can't be bothered to vote for anything (unless its Big Brother:D ) - to say that just because some couldn't be bothered to vote that the outcome doesn't have any validity in nonsense.

Of those prepared to vote the majority was in favour of strike action - full stop.



Buster The Bear

So what is the deal offered by management and refused by staff via a democratic ballot and therefore what was the reasoning by the union for refusing a management proposed binding arbitration?

Deal on offer is inflation or inflation +2% over 3 years (the +2% if you make it non-pensionable)

As to binding arbitration - if the company says that it will accept any outcome of binding arbitration, then by definition it will be able to accept a judgement that totally agrees with the unions claim - if it can meet the unions claim after binding arbitration why can it not negotiate before?


Nobody wants to go on strike, but we are now at the end of August still no further forward on a pay rise that was due to be paid at the beginning of January. There is money available in the company - any employee can point out the massive amounts of waste that still go on - so a sensible agreement all round can still be found.

[Fester T Adams]

ABird747

Obviously you don't understand the complexities of travel & many peoples itineraries. As I said I may be lucky & miss the BA strike should it go ahead unlike many other poor souls who have to live with the uncertainty of having their travel arrangements disrupted, isn't travel stressful enough without that!. Many pax like me have complex itineraries, where if we miss connections it screws up our plans major time down the line, as it is I have a little leeway but not very much.

Why don't you airline staff grow up, as for kicking up tantrums airline staff seem to be experrts at that at innocent pax's expense. Everyone knows airlines reputations for not paying many of its less specialised staff well, why does it come as a surprise to you that this hasn't changed, why did you join an airline in the first place? I knew it, I didn't, I just accepted it & went on to a career that paid far better with far better conditions! You make your bed, you lie in it.

Would you lot grow up. When I pay for & book something I expect a decent product & service, is that too much to expect, if I don't get it I complain, what's wrong with that? Most companies are falling over themselves to please & not alienate the customer but I ask you, all three airlines I'm flying with are voting on strike action, there's serious unrest going on here & a total lack of concern it appears for the inconvenience the airlines are causing their customers if they matter at all. If you ask me we seem to be just pawns in the whole game. If you guys think that I'm going to accept a shoddy service & be made to suffer for something that I've never done lying down, you're very much mistaken. Most "grown up" people think of the consequences of their actions on other people before they act, seems alot of airline staff are like overgrown children who only think of themselves. :mad:

[er82]

Seeing as those who are going on strike have a problem with the airline, why do they insist on striking over one of the busiest weekends of the year? Ok, it would make the point to BA, but hardly fair on the thousands who want to travel.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if they strike over the bank holiday weekend, once the strike is over they will have one hell of a time trying to clear the backlog.... If they did it midweek, when it will still affect BA but not thousands of innocent travellers, the 'clean-up' after might not be so bad.
I'm not toally sure whether I agree with striking. Hell, the Cabin Crew in my company get paid a lot less then the check-in staff for BA, and they have a LOT more RESPONSIBILITY. We've recently asked for a pay-rise, and after lots of negotiation got one. It wasn't as much as the rise of inflation, but we were thankful to get one at all.
Was speaking to a BA FO the other day, and was told that whenever the flight-crew went for a pay-rise they were quite happy to negotiate. They've given up various things in the past (i.e. a paid-for breakfast when night-stopping) in order to get the pay-rise. Maybe if the union supporting the check-in staff sat down at the table like adults and were prepared to negotiate instead of just demanding what they want, they might get somewhere.
I don't presume to know the ins and outs of this whole strike thing, but from an outsider point of view, it looks to be pretty selfish.
Am ready for the battering I shall now receive.....:ugh:

[eal401]

Fester, I understand your point of view, but it's the unions and the management that are more to blame than the staff. the unions because they are bloody minded, the management because they want to pay as little as possible (Mind you show me a company that doesn't).

[Fester T Adams]

Do you know something & I never thought I'd see the day when I would say this but as much as MOL gets my goat at times I'm beginning to see the sense of him not wanting sections of his workforce unionised. I've never had this uncertainty of my travel arrangements being scuppered once when flying with FR since no unions means no pax can be held to ransom over the threats of strike action. Yet when I'm travelling with three full cost airlines I'm not even sure if my flights will depart on schedule & who accused me of FR bashing? Seems to me unions are the bane of airlines & their pax alike.

Seeing as those who are going on strike have a problem with the airline, why do they insist on striking over one of the busiest weekends of the year?

They do it to cause the maximum amount of damage & disruption to drive their demands home to mgt. The pax's feelings, rights or arrangements do not matter in the equation, as I've said we're just pawns in the game, to see a pax on the news yesterday stuck at an airport with tears streaming down her face took the biscuit. While I sympathise with anyone who isn't paid a decent & liveable wage & I've no doubt the airlines are to blame, I think its unfair that innocent pax have to suffer. If BA staff in particular continue to choose to disregard their pax like this, I believe they in the end will be the losers since much of BA's customer loyalty & credibility will be lost.

[Jet II]

Fester
While I sympathise with anyone who isn't paid a decent & liveable wage & I've no doubt the airlines are to blame, I think its unfair that innocent pax have to suffer.

So whats your solution? - if management refuse to negotiate what other options are there?

Whatever industry your in, if the workforce go out on strike its the customers who suffer - airlines are no different to anyone else.

As to the timing - Union legislation means that there are certain steps have to go through before a strike can be called - OK the unions could delay the strike until a wet-wednesday in October but as I said before - this has been going on since last year - we have been trying to negotiate a settlement for 8 months - this October we are supposed to start talking about next years pay claim. You cannot keep dragging out negotiations that are going nowhere.

[ABird747]

Obviously you don't understand the complexities of travel & many peoples itineraries.

No, obviously I don't... How silly of me... You'd think that having worked in the industry for 8 years I'd have paid a little more attention.

You keep going on and on about how selfish us awful, wicked airline staff are, but all you seem to do is lament your own circumstances. I can see your point of view perfectly, can you see the check-in staff's problem too?

How very wise you were to go and get a better career that was paid so marvellously well. Did you get a career that allows you to afford a business jet? You haven't? Oh well, perhaps you should've forseen this as you say the check-in staff should've forseen net pay cuts.

It's great that you support Michael O'Leary so whole heartedly now. Have you bothered to read the threads that recount his tactics? Perhaps you should climb out of Mrs Thatchers handbag and recognise that people need unions to stand up for their rights.

I am not defending the union's decision to choose the bank holiday weekend for their action, that to me seems particularly vindictive (but also a good bargaining tool), but as you seem to be of the opinion that the check-in staff should put you before their financial well being and ability to support themselves, isn't it only fair that you should return the favour and put their wellbeing before your little holiday and the terribly complex travel plans you have or at least try to understand the issues a little more before you start spurting your offensive drivel on an airline crew website?

How about taking the advice that you give to the check-in staff; if you don't like it, go somewhere else? Not a very helpful suggestion is it?

[radeng]

Currently, I'm due to fly BA on business trips on August 20, (back home from Sweden where I currently am) August 25 (out), August 27(back), August 29(out) September 3 (back), September 5 (out), September 10 (back), Sptember 22 (out) September 24 (back), September 27 (out) and September 28 (back). All European flights, and I guess at least some of those will get disrupted. But I can't find it in my heart to blame staff working for such miserable wages. Especially with the number of managers that BA have for no apparently real reason.

I just hope the unions can achieve an equitable settlement, and if not, they decide to strike on August 30

[oscarh]

Go ahead, strike; see if I care.

I have already made alternative travel arrangements because I simply cannot be bothered to go through a week or so wondering if my holiday will be severely disrupted or not.

Yes, I will be another no-show at Gatwick and out of pocket, but at least I will on holiday when I want to be.

[Fester T Adams]

Jet II

I can see what you're getting at & it appears that er82 would be far more qualified to answer that question than me since I work in a small non unionised company which has a much more hands on face to face, personalised way of sorting out any problems. I've a fair idea the way Airlines work though, I used to have the misconception of them being glamorous to work for till I too decided to go for a job in a major carrier. When exploring this option I remember being told despite what the earlier poster says about alot of the staff being "middle aged women, that

Airlines recruit young & pay low
The second half of this sentence certainly holds water, as companies they appear to be notoriously bad payers for the less skilled portions of their workforce. When I actually went for the job & was offered it I quickly turned it down when I saw the cr@p money & hours I'd have to work but I'm lucky since I'm trained in various areas & could pick up a job in a far better paid industry with relative ease.

Airlines in general are large impersonal faceless companies who seem to thrive on the fact that there are people out there who'll agree to work for appalling low money & conditions in the first place, when they have you sucked in they appear to use all their bullying tactics to maintain the status quo. They often seems to treat their staff as expendible commodities not people IMHO.

On the other hand take the pax, many have us have forked out a small fortune for our much looked forwarded to trips, & that includeds flights, prebooked accomodations & tours & have tight schedules in alien lands miles from home. It's just not the same as the local train or bus company going on strike. It doesn't have the same reprecussions, if we lose out we lose out bad. While I commisserate with the staff, as a pax I've no doubt my sympathies will soon wear very thin should I experience major problems with my schedule. I mean three airline companies who claim to offer a superior service to the low cost airlines which I've never had a problem with is a bit too much IMHO, where's the superior service there?

It appears to be a catch 22 situation unfortunately, if I had all the answers I'd be a millionaire.

[pprecious]

As another poor unfortunate who is intending to travel over the bank holiday weekend I am completely mystified as to why your unions are targeting your everyday income, i.e people with families just like yourselves. We don't have a company paying our travel costs or time over a bank holiday weekend.

Yes the tubes go on strike, and we are delayed by an hour or so, yes the railwyays go on strike, we can use buses and cars etc, how do we find alternatives to having to use a plane?? Apart from alternative carriers? Of which from LHR there is limited choice due to the BA monopoly (its our flag carrier, so no issue there)

To mitigate the potential problems of this weekend I booked on-line, I will check in online and pick my boarding pass up using my credit card / exec card from the electronic check in points. I will not need to see another human being until I reach the entrance to the departures area when I flash my boarding card at the security person, and I won't need to see a BA employee until I reach my plane.

People, I suggest you look at what can happen here if you do start to disrupt normal peoples plans and your employers like this, as, unlike pilots, doctors, firemen, and tube drivers etc, you can be replaced by machines (and these don't strike!)

I am hoping that you and your unions see sense before this happens, as if my weekends travel plans are wrecked by some union idiots, hell bent on their own agenda using you staff as pawns, I for one will be very pleased to see all those desks and queues replaced by those quick and easy to use little TV screens that will be unable to hold me to ransom, for something out of my control.

[weis]

I can understand the frustration from a commercial passenger's point of view, but to accuse us of not having any sympathy for customers is absolutely ridiculous. We as frontline staff take all the BS (no disrespect intended), work our back-sides' off, only to be left with barely £1000 (GROSS) at the end of the month, while management gets bonuses amounting to X thousands (if not hundred's of thousands). Does that seem reasonable?

Secondly, you could check-in online/using self service, but there will be no team to board the flight as that's done by check-in staff as well (or were you under the impression that management took an active role in catering for customer needs?)

Thirdly, to somebody's post regarding BA's economy service, i would say you get preferential treatment as you are airline staff, otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.

Last but not least, for those of you who are naive enough to think that we as frontline staff have no sympathy for our customers, you ought to know that when a similar strike occurred last year, our CEO was off to Hong Kong on holiday with his family on CX, what does that say about how much he/she values the customers?

At the end of the day, i couldn't care less for what the strike does to passengers plans (holiday or not)...it is customary for passenger's to nag about anything and everything so i'm quite used to it. To the people nagging about us not providing a service bla bla bla...try living in London on less than £1000 a month, and then talk to us.

[eal401]

How about taking the advice that you give to the check-in staff; if you don't like it, go somewhere else? Not a very helpful suggestion is it?
Of course the problem is, that's exactly what many BA passengers will do in the future regarding which airline they choose.

And the next thing will be BA staff striking in protest against redundancies of their union's making.

At the end of the day, i couldn't care less for what the strike does to passengers plans (holiday or not)...it is customary for passenger's to nag about anything and everything so i'm quite used to it. To the people nagging about us not providing a service bla bla bla...try living in London on less than £1000 a month, and then talk to us.
So, it's OK for you to "nag" about poor pay, yet not for passengers to "nag" about what they have paid for? Where do we get our money, out of thin air?

[TURIN]

BBC radio reporting that an extended offer has been brokered by BA. Not sure of the details, something about an extra £1000 to staff who have a good attendance record.

[weis]

So, it's OK for you to "nag" about poor pay, yet not for passengers to "nag" about what they have paid for? Where do we get our money, out of thin air?

I understand it is hard-earned money you are using, just as we deserve more for our efforts. The average economy passenger earns in the region of around £20-25k, while we earn less than half of that. So next time you check-in, it is very likely that the poor sod behind that desk is having to work double shifts to barely make ends meet, think about that before you ask him or her for an upgrade or nag about that strike. Just as passengers want what they paid for, we want what would be a reasonable pay in return for our efforts.

[Fester T Adams]

otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.
Oh dear, not only am I not able to afford my own private jet on my wages, I'm travelling cattle class too, seems from your comment I'll be treated like cattle too, thanks for warning me in advance, hope I won't be whipped on board. :\

As I've said before this is a difficult situation. I commiserate with the staff, I know there are abuses of power going on in the company & mgt are creaming it off while lower down the staff are living on crumbs, what's new. The employee problems just seem to go on & on at BA.

However you have to understand that this isn't the pax's fault so why should they suffer after forking out £££ for a service & be held to ransom for something not of their making.

I fear there will no be no easy solution to this problem as long as mgt continue to dig their heels in, I know where the real culprits lie. Who said life is fair, it ain't.

I just hope that the staff gets whats due to them by just threatening strike action but not actually having to resort to it. Good luck!

[weis]

Fester, beleive me, i could go on and on about how my colleagues and i have gone well beyond the call of duty on certain occasions and some of these stories really are unbeleiveable, i really sympathise with the passenger, but how much can one take? At the end of the day, it is a lot worse for us to "clean-up" after a walk out so we don't want that either. We can only hope for the best - thank you for your understanding.

[Jet II]

BBC radio reporting that an extended offer has been brokered by BA

This wouldn't be the same BA who last week said there was absolutely no more money available.

Well if they can come up with £300 a year more after one day of threatened strike I wonder what they will come up with after a week;)

[pprecious]

I think in this day and age the vast majority of us all work for management teams that are on, what we believe are highly inflated pay and bonus scheme's etc etc.

Whilst I agree that the Check in staff do show the pax on the plane, how long could it be before, say, the CC fulfull this role (as an example, I'm sure MOL has already looked at this!)

I hope that, through all of this the two parties involved, i.e the unions and the management are focussing their efforts on negotiation, as opposed to focussing on increasing the distruption (Unions) and breaking the strike (Management)

As I mentioned before, the staff are the patsy's in this, I doubt very much your union 'leaders' have anything more than their union bank accounts and perks to consider, after all, they are a business too, and in this world any increase in salary means an increase in their percentage based subscriptions from your pay packet. I hope that thiose of who did vote yes have done it for the correct reasons, especially as it was only 25% of the total able to vote.

All I want to do is get away for a well earned weekend (yes, I am an average wage earner, with no private jet), on an airline that I don't have to fight for a seat, takes me to where I want to go, instead of an airport miles away, and is not in line to cause the next aluminium shower.

[Diverse]

Thinking about what pprecious said about automated check in, maybe that's the way things will go, a dispatcher told me today that easyJet actually dispatched a flight where all the pax checked in electronically.

I would suggest, make hay while the sunshines because if this is the case some people's days in their jobs are numbered.

[BahrainLad]

Thirdly, to somebody's post regarding BA's economy service, i would say you get preferential treatment as you are airline staff, otherwise economy passenger's are treated like crap, and that's a known fact in the company.


This is absolute bollocks. I flew over 30 economy sectors with BA last year, on a range of routes, and have absolutely no complaints.

Please do not tar your airborne colleagues with the same "we don't give a ****" attitude that you express towards your customers.

:mad:

[Carnage Matey!]

that when a similar strike occurred last year, our CEO was off to Hong Kong on holiday with his family on CX, what does that say about how much he/she values the customers?

Errr, so that must have been his doppelganger in the Compass centre then? Perhaps you ought to engage your brain instead of listening to the rubbish your union leaders spout.

[payingpax]

I’m travelling out of Heathrow over the bank holiday – but on a Star Alliance partner from a terminal with – I think - only limited BA presence.

Any predications as to the level of knock on disruption I am likely to have to put up with?


PS How do the pay, terms and conditions of BA check in staff compare with other carriers operating out of Heathrow and Gatwick?

[Carnage Matey!]

If you stay out of T1 there should be no knock on effect except your flights and the car parks being full.

PPS. BA check in staff are the best paid at LHR plus they have a final salary pension, flexible working hours and discount staff travel. Haven't seen many of them jacking it in to work for Aviance and Servisair.

[fiftyfour]

Mike Street is the Director who is dealing with the pay negotiations that have now stalled and it looks as if a strike is likely. He has wide experience of messing things up. He handled the takover of Dan Air into EOG.
He doesn't have much time for people or for fairness. For example the Dan Air seniority list was ignored during the pilot redundancies in 1992 - only those flying B737-3/400 were reatained on the payroll, all other fleet pilots were made redundant despite a written company/union agreement for first in last out. Those that were 'lucky' and retained were given a 10% pay cut. It took years to sort out the mess - court action, union action etc.

[unmanned transport]

"Offering short-term sums of money doesn't get to the heart of the problem. BA's labour costs in the current environment are 100 million to 200 million pounds too high," independent analyst Chris Tarry said. (Reuters).

[Jet II]

BA's labour costs in the current environment are 100 million to 200 million pounds too high

This may be true, but that doesn't have much to do with the present impasse.

Paying some check-in girl who's on 11k a rise of inflation +£300 isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to BA's woes.

Skippy had the chance to sort out BA's pay structure after 9-11 and he blew it - trying to cut back on the lowest paid employees, who, lets be honest, have nothing to lose (theres no shortage of jobs in West London paying 11K!) will not make any dent is this supposed 200 million overspend.

[A and C]

There seems to be this idea above that people go on strike for fun !, let me tell you when a person has a wife and kids to support then striking is a last resort.

Ask yourselfs why this dispute has lasted since january ?. Could it be bad mannagement to let a dispute come to a head at the time when the company makes most of its money ?.

[LGS6753]

BA have already contracted-out parts of its operations. If they think check-in staff and baggage handlers are getting too expensive, I'm sure the likes of Aviance and Servisair will be only too happy to talk to them....

[Ben Evans]

I note in todays Telegraph:

The airline [BA] employs 47,000 people but has been dogged by absenteeism with staff reporting sick 17 days a year compared with the average of seven days. Union sources said the absenteeism was due to working conditions.

So. BA staff are in the habit of taking an extra two weeks holiday a year compared to other workers. On top of being in the rareified club of final salary pension workers who also enjoy extensive staff travel and unionised job security.

I see no realistic way for BA to drag itself out of this mire.

Other than go bust. Imagine it. They wind the firm up on a Tuesday and then rise it phoneix like from the ashes on a Wednesday. Everything contracted out on the ground to competing firms. New hires recruited on a single union no-strike contract only in essential areas of operations such as cabin crew and flightdeck and engineering.

No final salary pension commitments. The dead half of management not rehired and most deliciously those damn militant baggage chuckers and bus drivers out on their ear into the real world.

The BA brand could have been sold to a holding company along with the slots. The aircraft lease holders would have had to held their assets unused overnight whilst the old BA died and the new BOAC was reborn looking for a whole load of aircraft, a brand and some slots...

This cannot be impossible to engineer surely? Sell off the right to the brand and sell the slots and sell the other essential bits to a ' holding company ' then go bust, then start a New BA and buy back the forementioned.

Got to be a way of slashing 50% of costs in my book.

BEN

[pprecious]

Good point.

Here's hoping that the 75% who either voted no, or abstained turn up for work and be a little more responsible than their colleagues.

[LGS6753]

Ben -

Nice idea. Just slightly illegal!!:*

[Ben Evans]

Not necessarily illegal. As BA owe £3b in debt then there may be scope to sell off assets to repay the debt. Thereby leaving nothing much left of a company to declare insolvent. If nothing else you could move all the existing troublesome BA employees into a wholly owned subsidiary which you could soon declare loss making.

Michael O Leary would have no difficulty in sorting this out under existing UK employment law.

Lets face it. Sour faced buttie slingers, pilfering bag chuckers and dim witted passport checkers are hardly irreplaceable professionals deserving of well perked jobs. Each one can be replaced with less than a weeks training and be on a no-strike contract.

BEN

[phoenix son]

Ben,

Judging by your last paragraph, it sounds as if you ARE M.O.L.???
At least you have the same opinions of the workforce :E

PHX

[Jet II]

Looks like its escalating - the TGWU members have voted overwhelmingly for strike and named the day - August 27.

The union said that 66 per cent of its members working in BA's check-in, sales, and administrative departments voted in favour of a strike while 84 per cent of baggage handlers and other ground staff backed industrial action

The union said the strike will hit Heathrow, Gatwick, Birmingham, Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow and will run from 4.30am on August 27.

[silverknapper]

What I'm curious about is how much do they think they should earn? Especially with the attitude displayed above. At the end of the day they took a job knowing what it payed. It's hardly skilled labour - go work somewhere else if you don't like it - but don't mess up what for many people is a once a year event just cos you're not happy.
Having watched this unfold I also feel the so called union officials should be ashamed of their conduct - especially being vague about when the strike will occur. I hope they suffer a backlash from any GMB members trying to travel that day.
And with luck only 25% will walk out and we'll see minimum disruption. To endanger a fragile company in trying times could very easily backfire.

SK

[Globaliser]

Oh well, so off we go into the brinksmanship phase.

Does anyone know who handles EI at LHR?

[stormin norman]

Its a great shame that any staff in any airline have to go on strike
what it always shows is that the management are woefully poor at explaining the company problems.The department in dispute is led by Mr street.In the last dispute the man in charge was Mr street.Is it not time Mr street went down the road ?

[Diverse]

Absolutely right stormin', I think he is the root of the problem. Doesn't matter what he is as a personality or how he behaves towards his mother, the guy seems to bounce fromone crisis to another.

[ABird747]

They wind the firm up on a Tuesday and then rise it phoneix like from the ashes on a Wednesday. Everything contracted out on the ground to competing firms. New hires recruited on a single union no-strike contract only in essential areas of operations such as cabin crew and flightdeck and engineering

Ha ha, I suggested more or less the same thing to our head of cabin services at some speak easy they had in the crew report centre... she almost swallowed her tongue at the suggestion. The look on her face was a picture!

[phreegreens]

Aug 27th.. great, thanks BA and the unions for stuffing up Mrs PG and my one break of the year, fully paid for £1k+ a piece WT+ tickets to ORD as a weekend treat for the guvnor putting up with me being away for large lumps of the year.

Many, many, years travel always flying BA, company class downgrades, so most recent travel has been in the back of the bus, still though I continue to favour BA. I've been Gold for a good few years, got the occassional opug, nice thanks, but I do have some say in this relationship.

I booked a trip to FRA today.. bmi/LH, normally no question BA every time, stuff it, I have a choice, you stuffed up my holiday, I hope Mr Street and the union slimebags lose their jobs as other punters like me take my $'s and my companies $'s elsewhere.

Am I bitter, yes I am. We work b'hard for these breaks, I spend a lot of time on long haul planes and I expect the airline I trust to carry me when I want, especially when I have paid in full 12+ weeks in advance, you have let me down and you will never see me on one of your aircraft again.. :mad:

[oscarh]

phreegreens

Having made a similar point at the bottom of page 2 of this thread, it seems that nobody cares whether the customer flies or not. They all seem too concerned that their little empires stand. Well, they won't when the company for which they work goes to the wall and they will all, whether management or not, doubtless be bleating about their lack of employment and/or prospects.

Too say that they care that the customer is inconvenienced is inconsequential drivel. The bottom line is that we wish to fly when the ticket we buy in good faith says we fly. the 'poor me' cry means nothing to we who pay OUR hard earned cash for what is advertised.

Personally. I dislike the idea that BA might go to the wall. I like their product, but I have had enough of being a pawn in the game being played by union and management.

I might say that I, as a customer, hate the idea that I will henceforth have to suffer the service(!) handed out by the so-called low cost operators. Where will it all end?

Me, I'm taking my car and family by sea.

oscar

[Carnage Matey!]

Well I'll miss you both, and your hard earned cash that pays my wages. Give us a wave when I'm flying you on Ryanair.:{

[Jet II]

To those who are customers of BA and are, quite rightly, very annoyed at any industrial action that might upset their travel plans I do apologise.

But I have yet to hear anybody come up with a real alternative to industrial action if the company doesn't want to negotiate - if you are suggesting that employees of BA should accept whatever the company wishes to offer and be greatful then I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that in any other industry and it's not going to happen in BA.

[eal401]

real alternative
Get a better paid job at another company? Career change?

These never seem to be options, for some reason.

I'm sure that there'll be many, many more like phreegreens who, sick of BA telling them to f-off will be happy to take their hard earned cash elsewhere.

How long before BA does decide "lets outsource check-in and baggage handling?" Wouldn't like to be around when that gets announced.

[Jet II]

eal401

Get a better paid job at another company? Career change?

Many do both those things - but for those that have many years invested in the company they are prepared to stay and fight their corner.

I really cannot see why you think that BA are some special case - they are no different to any other company in any other industry.

In every walk of life there is industrial strife, if everyone took your 'advice' the whole workforce in the country would be changing jobs every year - bonkers. Perhaps you feel that the Eurostar employees should all quit, as should the United employees, what about the Siemens staff or the BBC people.

Face facts - employees are quite within their rights to withdraw their labour - if that causes irreprable damage to their particular company then they have nobody to blame but themselves and the management of that company - what outsiders think is pretty irrelevant.

[Double Entry]

Well, since we are having a strike anyway, lets take this opportunity to outsource check in and baggage handling now.

Put the jobs out to tender (hopefully already done), accept a weeks no flying and another for training and disruption and Bob's your proverbial.

Then the rest of us living in the real world can get on with our lives while those who didn't pay attention at school can get on with pattie flipping.

[oscarh]

Jet II

Unfortunately, your posts seem to neatly encapsulate the problem that some of we customers face.

From what I read here, the BA terms, whilst offering comparitively low wages, I admit, are better than other employers for comparitive jobs. In particular, your concessionary travel and pension arrangements seem to be better than those enjoyed by other check-in staff. Perhaps this means that the rate for the job has already been reached. If that isn't enough for your needs, eal401 has a point and you should really consider a career change.

Thank you for your apology regarding my financial loss. Regrettably, it means nothing to me or mine and I refer you back to the point I made about inconsequential drivel in my previous post.

On the one hand, you say that "you will stay and fight your corner" and on the other, you seem to care little if you help cause "irrepairable damage" to your company. Strange indeed.

I am just so sorry that attitudes like yours pervade so many industries and that the brinkmanship being displayed by both sides is having the effect that it is. Double Entry has a valid point even if it is probably impractical as things stand.

[eal401]

Many do both those things - but for those that have many years invested in the company they are prepared to stay and fight their corner.
There are a lot of potential translations for that latter part. From my point of view, I pray I don't find myself in the "many years invested" stable in my career!
I really cannot see why you think that BA are some special case - they are no different to any other company in any other industry.
I guess I was away during the great Tesco/McDonalds/Kwik Fit/Holiday Inn/Sainsburys/Brewers Fayre/Asda/Barclays, etc, etc, strikes!!
In every walk of life there is industrial strife, if everyone took your 'advice' the whole workforce in the country would be changing jobs every year - bonkers.
Hardly, but those ambitious enough to help themselves do.
what outsiders think is pretty irrelevant.
Utter rubbish if the company concerned is a service organisation, what outsiders think is VERY relevant, as BA staff will find out when previous customers start using bmi, Virgin etc. and suddenly BA can't afford to employ all of them. Then of course, it'll be back to protest strikes again and the Union Life Cycle will continue....

[Jet II]

oscarh

From what I read here, the BA terms, whilst offering comparitively low wages, I admit, are better than other employers for comparitive jobs.

Any evidence for this? - I spent 2 minutes yesterday searching for adverts for check-in staff at LHR the first ad I found offered a starting salary of 12K for 35 hour week - better than BA rates.

For my particular Job, I asked the question of a Board member as to why we couldn't be benchmarked against comparable employers - answer, BA couldn't afford it.:{


Concessionary travel - BA staff travel is recognised as the worst in the business, even assuming you could get on.

On the one hand, you say that "you will stay and fight your corner" and on the other, you seem to care little if you help cause "irrepairable damage" to your company. Strange indeed.

I care about the business, I wish the mangement would care just as much - but, like the BA pilot who said on another thread "I and many of my compatriots will happily send the company to the wall as we will have nothing left to lose. Just watch us." - you can only push members of staff so far before they push back.

I am just so sorry that attitudes like yours pervade so many industries and that the brinkmanship being displayed by both sides is having the effect that it is. I tend to agree with much of what you say - industrial strife is endemic within British Industry, but theres an old saying - management gets the unions it desrerves - if theres an answer then I cannot see one.

Oh and I see that Skippy is so interested in solving the dispute he has refused to meet the unions:(

[Double Entry]

Jet II

So apply for the job - good luck and good riddance.

[ABird747]

I guess I was away during the great Tesco/McDonalds/Kwik Fit/Holiday Inn/Sainsburys/Brewers Fayre/Asda/Barclays, etc, etc, strikes!!

What a stupid thing to say...

If you're all so pi$$ed of because some people choose to exercise their right within the law to withold labour (whether you agree with it or not is none of your business) why don't you go and get on BAs back instead of carping on to people on this board who have no say about things?

I don't here many of you whining about the threatened pilots strike at bmi, what's the diff?

[Jet II]

Double Entry

Jet II

So apply for the job - good luck and good riddance.



Changed your tune from the other year when you were winging about the Flt Crew pay offer - I didn't notice you then telling your colleagues to p**s off if they didn't like the offer on the table:rolleyes:

I hope your a bit more professional when at work:)

[eal401]

I don't here many of you whining about the threatened pilots strike at bmi, what's the diff?
They're not doing it at a time to cause maximum distruption to those who ultimately provide the reason for their employment?
What a stupid thing to say...
Why, did I miss people striking in those companies?

If I believe my job is bad or I'm badly paid, I exercise my right to seek employment elsewhere, I don't feel the need to make people suffer from legalised blackmail.

[Diverse]

No mention of the United strike, BMI, Eurostar, the list goes on.

Whilst I don't agree with a strike they cause irrepairable damage and the money you lose as staff you can never get back so basically your going to need about a 1% pay rise to recover your personal losses as a result of the strike, but it is an employees right to withdraw their labour if other means have failed.


I feel that the writing is on the wall for the ground staff and BA generally with this kind of action.

Those in the ground staff who are striking who don't think outsourcing is possible need to look again. The company would never have to consider another pay claim with you. Every couple of years the deal goes out to tender and the company sees the ground handling competition fighting for the work. BA would win all ways. Also with electronic ticketing and automated check-in the number of ground staff required is reduced. There's no sick leave associated with a computer.

Also the company needs to get it's act together and start treating it's employees witha bit of respect the corresponding effect on morale will pass along the line to customers, honest.


Start banging heads together at BAA. Their increases in landing fees and other charges seems to be at odds with the rest of the industry which seems to spend it's whole life trying to cut operating costs to compete and yet staff and passengers still have to work and travel in filthy, poorly maintained and inefficient conditions. Forget about T5 and all that stuff they need to tidy up and make pleasant T1,2,3,4.



Finally, by all means strike but take care for your futures.

[radeng]

I travel on business, and international meetings happen whether you're there or not. This means the inconvenience is just as bad for me as for the holidaymaker, with the possible difference that at least I can sit an the Exec club lounge for hours. But if check in staff work a 37.5 hour week for £10k a year, my math works that out as being 14% above minimum hourly wage. It can't be a totally unskilled job, it has some very antisocial hours (is there any extra allowance for that?) and although I'm going to be badly inconvenienced, I really can't blame them.

Strangely, I work for an international company where it isn't unknown for a manager to be paid less than the engineer who works for him. Might be a good thing if that attitude appeared in BA!

[Jet II]

Strangely, I work for an international company where it isn't unknown for a manager to be paid less than the engineer who works for him. Might be a good thing if that attitude appeared in BA!

Not a chance ;)

[Navajo8686]

Whilst not condoning strike action by anyone there are two important points which often seem to be conveniently forgotten.

The first is that strike action should only ever be used as the last resort - what other avenue is left open to employees (of any company) who are neither listened to or negotiated with no matter how hard they try? Fighting back is often the only way!

The second relates to the 'stock response' to the last point which is the oft quoted "Well if they don't like it they should :mad: off and get another job".

That is a really great idea when there are so many jobs around that one can pick and choose - for many it is not an option. Jobs do not grow on trees (despite common belief!) and if additional factors like location, transport and housing are taken into account then it becomes even harder to 'flit' from job to job to keep increasing the money. Believe it or not many people actually LIKE their job and don't want to leave - they want decent recognition.

What if they did all leave - would there not be howls of anguish if there were no check-in staff or baggage staff? The 24 hour disruption would become a bit of a longer term problem! How about if all the Fire Officers had resigned as suggested by Two Jags when they felt they deserved more pay.

Within PPrune there is a large amount of discontentent about their employers from flight crew? Does the same principle also apply there - they don't have to work for their employer (one in particular!!) and they could always move on. Of course the real world doesn't allow that to happen - why should it also apply to those less skilled than flight crew?

Bernie

PS - I don't work for any airline and have no ax to grind either way....neither do I necessarily agree with indivuals striking!

[Double Entry]

On a slightly more serious note than my last post if I may...

Although the basic for check in staff is quite low, when all payments are taken into account, then the actual package is more like £20,000 than the headline £11k or £12k being bandied about. Additionally there is a final salary pension scheme and a staff travel scheme that members of other airlines would dearly love. Then there are generous maternity allowances, death in service benefits, free car parking, dry cleaning allowances, canteens, part time working opportunities and and and. On top of that you are now being offered an incentive just to turn up to work of £1,000 (which is unaffected by you taking the usual sick days off per year).

I mean what do you want? Blood?!:confused:

(Edited for spelling, JetII you might also like to get your dictionary out)

[Jet II]

when all payments are taken into account, then the actual package is more like £20,000 than the headline £11k or £12k being bandied about

What payments? - BA is advertising now (http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/roledescription.jsp?ID=2716227&MODE=2) for full-time Customer Service Agents and they are paying £11,909 pa - no mention of extra payments. :confused:

[ABird747]

Since when have pay rates been quoted to include pension contributions, NI, car park etc?

For you information during thr 3 years I worked in terminal 1 my basic pay was as follows (figures from my P60s)

Year to:

5 April 1998 £11,122.90
5 April 1999 £14,816.58
5 April 2000 £14,896.56

My basic pay for those years was as follows:

1997-1998 £9953.00 (+£3156 shift)
1998-1999 £10371.00 (+£3156 shift)
1999-2000 £10734.00 (+£3516 shift)

The only times that my take home went over £1000 was when I managed to do overtime.

My shift pattern was 5 on 3 off, 6 on 3 off. Shifts were 8h40m long and each set of 5 days had a 12h40m shift in.

The first shift started at 04.59 and the last one finished at 00.40

I had 28 days paid leave per annum on a rising scale.

There, now you can all see EXACTLY what the staff in the terminals are paid without the obligatory BBC inflation.

[phreegreens]

But I have yet to hear anybody come up with a real alternative to industrial action if the company doesn't want to negotiate - if you are suggesting that employees of BA should accept whatever the company wishes to offer and be greatful then I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that in any other industry and it's not going to happen in BA.
no problem with industrial action Jet II.. it's the nature of this that I have an issue with. 24hr walk out. So management types have to go and sort the punters out, total chaos worldwide, disrupting thousands of punters who have paid in advance, disgusting.

Walk out for half an hour every day until the dispute is resolved, that'll get BBC and Sky there, especially if they get the tip in advance, oh but the workers would then have to face the customers and take the heat, they wouldn't like that.

This planned action is the problem I have with, not the workers right to take part in industrial action. Plenty of other ways they could do this, gain the punters support, get publicity, but don't ruin the travel plans of the folks that pay your salary. Very dumb. Us regulars in this business will take out $'s elsewhere, witness to this the first non-BA booking I have made in a long, long time.. :mad:

[ABird747]

Well don't fly with United or bmi either, the latter's pilots just returned 90% in favour of industrial action and United's ground staff in terminal 3 are going out too.

If it goes on like this you aren't gonna have many options left.

[Double Entry]

Well excuse me for pointing out some of your additional benefits. They are part of your package and no doubt you are pleased to have them. In particular the pension is enormously valuable and you won't get another like it elsewhere now (unless you work for the council of course but that's another story).

I say again, just what do you want? If you want to be paid like managers or pilots then get qualified and apply for the job.

[ABird747]

Who said they wanted to be paid like management or pilots?

All people want is to be paid a livable wage and get what they were promised. The promise was, if the terminal staff tightened their belts over the hard times it would be paid back to them once BA returned to profit.


Well excuse me for pointing out some of your additional benefits.

The whole debate isn't about additional benefits is it? It's about SALARY...

No one has asked for equivalent pay to pilots and management... the feeling is that there is money sloshing round for the management (and the pilots, no matter how false this idea is) and now some of the lowest paid and hardest worked staff want a cut of it.

Lets not get on to our staff travel package (unless you want to make comparisons with BD & VS) or the canteens that have become more and more expensive in the Queens Building and T3.
As far as part-time working & carparks go... aren't these things more or less standard for UK based airlines?

Your comments along the lines of "if you want a livable salary you need an ATPL" just smack of an "I'm alright Jack and the rest of you can go sing" attitude. Of course you deserve to be paid well for what is a skilled job, but doesn't anyone else deserve a decent wage for a hard day's work either?

[pprecious]

Thanks to both the management and unions for their determination to crack the deadlock.

Myself and Ms H are both looking forward to the holiday weekend!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3582554.stm

See you on friday!

[Jet II]

Double Entry

Well excuse me for pointing out some of your additional benefits. They are part of your package and no doubt you are pleased to have them.

I'd have a bit more respect for your position if you had pointed out these 'benefits' to your colleagues the last time they were looking for a good pay rise - but the silence was defening;)

Double standards indeed:(

[eal401]

Thanks to both the management and unions for their determination to crack the deadlock.
Until the next time. 6 months, 12 months????

[TURIN]

Try next week!

BA engineers not a happy bunch.:mad: