Unwanted Reserved System Space

[Ausatco]

Fresh format and re-install of XP home SP1. The install was done from an OEM disk, then SP1 was applied, then updated fully via Windows Update.

Being a fresh install, it's pretty trim. However, Diskkeeper Lite reports a large lump of Reserved System Space on the C drive, (about one third of the current contents of the drive) which wasn't there on the previous installation. I'm wondering what it is, and can I get rid of it?

I run the page file on another partition, so it's not that. I think maybe it's a back-up of XP files created when SP1 was applied. If so I'd be happy to delete them, but I can't find a way to do it.

Any ideas, anyone?

Thanks in advance,

AA

[Evo]

Not sure if this is the cause here, but two system files that i've found eating disk space are hibernation files (if you don't use it, then Control Panel - Power Options - Hibernate - disable removes the file.) and System restore points (My Computer - Properties - System Restore).

In my case the former was using up 1Gig (I never hibernate the machine, so it's wasted) and latter was using up several gigs more. You may not want to turn system restore off, but if you click "settings" you can tell it to reduce the amount of space it uses. Mine was set to 20% of the disk, and it used the lot :*

[Ausatco]

Thanks Evo. Switching off hibernation doesn't change things, and once I was satisfied with my system I used Disk Cleanup to remove all but the latest Restore Point to minimise the space used, so that should have minimal impact.

But I think I've found out what's happening.

MS KB article 328848 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;328848) describes Dual Mode updates for XP. I think I ended up with that this time (I didn't have it on the last installation) because this time I stupidly did a did a few on-line updates before I remembered I hadn't yet installed SP1. The article explains what happens - basically the Autoupdate system has detected the order in which I've done things and thinks I might one day want to unstall SP1, so it stores a pre SP1 version of many applied updates, even those applied after SP1 was installed. That gives one the option of uninstalling SP1 and if one does that the system will automatically install the pre SP1 version of any updates installed under SP1.

Devilishly clever, but I don't think I'll ever uninstall SP1, so I'd just like to switch all this off and get the disk space back.

The article just describes the process, not how to switch it off.

Maybe I have to wait for SP2, but I was going to let the rest of the world test and de-bug it first. In the meantime I want my disk space back :{

Not another re-install, PLEASE :{:{:{

AA

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

I know you have your pagefile on another drive, but I want to you try something. Set the Max and Min for the pagefile to 384Mb.

Lets see what that does.

Take Care,

Richard

[Ausatco]

Richard,

That's 1.5 x 256. I have 512Mb RAM, so my pagefile size should be 768. I have set that (768) as my max and min pagefile size already.

Nevertheless, I tried the lower figure to see if it made any difference to the Reserved System Space. Unfortunately it didn't.

I've Googled a fair bit for a solution to this and also run quite a few searches on the MS Knowledgebase, but no joy.

I mentioned SP2 in my previous post as being a possible solution. Having read up a bit on SP2 on the MS website, I don't think it will be the answer either - I think SP2 will leave this configuration as it is to facilitate a rollback, just like SP1 and Autoupdate have between them set the system up to facilitate a rollback.

My data is backed up - I've nothing to lose but my time and a bit of inconvenience :(. I think I'll do another format and reinstall and be careful not to do ANY updates until SP1 is installed - I'm sure that's where I went wrong. Will let you know whether or not it solves the problem.

Cheers

AA

[Ausatco]

Well, that was a wasted effort!! My hunch that the reserved space was associated with multi-mode updates was wrong.

Did the format and re-install of XP - the reserved system space is still there, quite a large chunk of it. Diskeeper shows it being twice as large as the OS files. I installed SP1 - no change. Beats me why it wasn't there in the earlier installation but insists on being there now. Also, the reserved system space on my desktop PC is far smaller than that on this laptop:confused:

I found a bit more to read. I now think that it's managed by NFTS and/or the OS and that we humans can't touch it. Once again, I think I'll just learn to live with it.

AA

[DistantRumble]

Have a look at MoreSpace and tell us what folders the chunk is using and what the file(s) are named.

NTFS doesn't steal space. it's just a file system.

[ not getting into the cluster size argument here :yuk: ]

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

I am wondering if you are looking at the hibernation file?

During hibernation, all devices are powered off, and the systems physical memory is written to disk in the system hibernation file, \Hiberfil.sys.

You'll need to turn off the "Enable Hibernate" by going to:
Start->Settings->Control Panel->Power Options and then select the "Hibernate" Tab and De-Select the "Enable Hibernation" check box.

After you do this WinXP will delete the hiberfil.sys file next time you re-boot.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. The more RAM, the smaller I set the Pagefile. The old 1.5x rules were for the days when most systems had very little RAM. If you have a problem, increase the size again.

[Evo]

Richard, I suggested the hibernation file earlier... turning it off didn't seem to help :)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Evo,

It was a long day at work today. (Trying to reply on PPRuNe in between fielding questions and everything else going on at work.) I completely missed your reply when I read the thread this morning.

My apologies,

Richard

[Ausatco]

Guys,

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Richard, that's an interesting approach re the 1.5 times rule for the paging file - I hadn't thought of it the way you described in your PS, but now you've mentioned it, it makes sense. However, because I have spare space on a FAT32 partition, I've fixed the size at 1.5 times ram and placed it there. I found a smaller pagefile slowed the machine somewhat.

DR, I downloaded and tried MoreSpace, but it doesn't seem to tell me what is using that part of the disk. Am I missing something here?

At least I've fixed my broken Media Player, and with a trimmed down load of apps and stuff running in the background have a faster laptop. A small silver lining :ok:

Cheers

AA

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

I know we are on a slight tangent here, but I would like to make a couple of suggestions on the Pagefile.

If putting in a larger Pagefile gives you a boost in performance, then it is time to add RAM to your system.

As long as you have at least 512Mb of RAM in your system, use Regedit:

System Key: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ SYSTEM\ CurrentControlSet\ Control\ Session Manager\ Memory Management]
Value Name: DisablePagingExecutive
Data Type: REG_DWORD (DWORD Value)
Value Data: (0 = default, 1 = disable system paging)

Select the DisablePagingExecutive value to '1'.

Take Care,

Richard

[Ausatco]

Hmmm, interesting, Richard.

I have 512Mb ram so I'm eligible for your suggestion. What does your registry tweak do? And if I use it, should I set the Pagefile to the smaller size that you suggested earlier?

AA

[DistantRumble]

tell us what the main folders are that are taking up space.

512MB ? And you're paging ? what are you running ?

I run a full Oracle Enterprise Edition, Management Server, Java Development environment plus a hell of a lot of other monitoring gear all the time - with no or little paging...

something else is wrong.

[Ausatco]

DR,

It's a 2.54GHz P4 laptop, 40gig HDD, 512Mb ram. It's a fresh WinXP Home re-installation on a freshly formatted NTFS system drive, with no apps installed. SP 1 and online updates were applied. The only folders are the standard ones that the installation and updates create.

Fixed size 800Mb pagefile on a separate FAT32 partition (but on the same physical drive - it is a laptop!). Moving the pagefile around different partitions (I have C and D, both NTFS and E, FAT32) and changing its size makes no difference to the amount of "reserved system space" that's locked up on the system drive.

I checked the issue before and after installing SP1, before and after the on-line updates, before and after the updated drivers for audio and video and before and after installing the driver for the only additional hardware, which is a PCMCIA wireless LAN card. Again, there was no difference.

Before the reinstall this reserved space was not reported by my de-fragger (Diskeeper). Now it is, and it's bigger than the space occupied by the OS.

AA

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

Without knowing any details on this reserved space you have, it is hard to guess what it is.

I wish I could be more help.

Richard

P.S. When Liam gets back, he might have an idea.

[Ausatco]

Ha! Found the info I was after - I really must improve my search techniques; with 20/20 hindsight this should not have been hard:O I was searching within the MS Knowledgebase. Google did a much better job looking at it from outside:confused:

If you'r interested try Googling +ntfs+reserved+system+space It turns up many good results.

Here's (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q174619) what Microsoft has to say about it.

It seems I cannot reduce the size of the reserved space, but as I understand it, in the long run it will not impact on the capacity of the drive for data because of the way NTFS manages the reserved space and the competition from added files. So I guess I'm happy:D

Cheers all

AA

[Lost_luggage34]

Ausatco,
Fascinating thread - glad you got to the bottom of it, or so it seems.

Just curious, as I don't run XP, did you change from FAT to NTFS when you reinstalled XP ? Is there an issue there perhaps ?

Brings more questions to mind wrt paging - does Win2K work in the same way ?

It's very late/early so I may have missed something in the MS reference. I'll re-read it.

Cheers and great work !

LL34

[Ausatco]

G'day LL34,

It was always an NTFS partition, never converted or anything like that. All I ever did was change the size of the partition by moving the boundary between adjacent NTFS partitions. That was over a year ago and I don't think relates to the current issue.

The MS article is a good read. You'll find more if you use the Google search I suggested.

My understanding is that W2k (on NTFS, of course) does indeed work very much the the same way, though there are some minor differences, I think. Or perhaps they're between NT4 and 2000/XP. BTW it's not paging that raised the issue, it's the Master File Table, part of NTFS.

And to properly answer your question, yes, AFAIK paging works the same way on W2k as it does on XP (subject, of course, to being wrong!! - I've never used W2k, my only knowledge is what I've gleaned in reading.)

AA

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Ausatco,

I am glad to hear that you were able to get to the bottom of this.

Richard