Pilot Training College, Waterford, Ireland

[birdlady]

Hello everyone!!!!

I have just finished my PPL and Hour building here in SA and will be returning to Ireland soon to do my atps through Bristol and to earn some dosh to reduce the steaming on the old credit card. Unfortunately the JAA approved school here in JHB has gone bankrupt so Im looking for a place in Ireland to do my CPL/Multi IR and instructors. Any suggestions or comments????
Thanks BL :ok: :ok:

[mike halls]

hI PPruner's,

I had a good experience with PTC Ireland
very friendly and a good flight school.

Only good things aircraft were in great shape
and the flight instructor's were very helpful.

would recommend them.

safe flying all

mike

[Helibelly]

Just want some feedback on the Pilot training college Ireland based at Waterford Airport. Is it good/bad/indifferent. Are the staff good/bad/indifferent etc. I'm planning to do a course there as I don't want to go to the States or UK.

Cheers

[tu154]

Try flying in ireland (http://www.flyinginireland.com)

[Boeing737]

i have read nothing but positive testimony regarding ptc on these forums.use the search engine. I will at some stage, visit there for training purposes!Look forward to it

[Simon_Sez]

I'm currently doing 0-fATPL at PTC. Info below might help:

Good Points:

1. Excellent Instructors
2. Most favourable weather in Ireland for training. (Only 6 days lost due to poor weather in 2004)
3. Small regional airport so not much commercial traffic but as there's no radar it's still interesting when you're in the circuit or practising an ILS and Aer Arann are on the way...(you'll see when you get here....pedantic controller....) :)
4. On site maintenance. Shamrock Aviation are based here and deal with most of the GA maintenance in Ireland as well as a lot of Welsh and other UK based aircraft. 50 hour checks are completed in about 3-4hours and C of A's usually take 10days. Any other little things are usually dealt with immediately.
5. Becoming increasingly recognised as a REAL-LIVE Irish professional flying school by the airlines. PPJN mention them as a supplier of pilots to Aer Arann. We've also had students go to Air Asia and Ryanair.

Bad Points:

1. This is Ireland. It's slightly more expensive than doing it abroad, especially the PPL.
2. Once again, this is Ireland. Although only 6 days were lost due to weather last year, this year hasn't been the best. Not sure of the stats, but certainly a couple of weeks have meant VFR was out.
3. Location. There'll always be someone to give you a lift to college, but if you live in Dunmore East or Tramore and wanna get into Waterford City, costs EUR25/30 in a taxi. If you have a car, obviously your freedom level increases dramatically.
Also, accomodation is EXTREMELY expensive from June-September in Dunmore East. We're talking EUR600-EUR800 PER WEEK. Seriously. This is compared to the same figure per month for the rest of the year. If you're starting 0-fATPL, the CPL or the Multi-IR, I'd advise you to start in September to give the best chance of the acccomodation budget being realistic.


Apart from that, not a lot to complain about. Obviously the usual caveats apply. Keep an eye on your account. I get weekly and monthly print outs of my spendings from Ops at PTC and there's never a problem, but this is a flying school after all!! (Kidding)
Rosters can and do change for various reasons so if you've a flight booked, make sure you call to confirm EVERY TIME, as you won't get called to be told an aircraft has gone tech. Be assertive!

PM me if you need anything else.

Simon.

[AlternativeProcedure]

Just to add to this,

I did my IR with them, excellent bunch of instructors, cant fault them at all.

AP

[North County Pilot]

As someone who has gone through the training mill over the past 2 years, I feel I owe it to all Wannabes out there, who are considering modular training in Ireland/UK, to recommend flight training at PTC.

I completed my CPL and MEP rating in Florida, returning to Ireland train for the Multi IR. My main reasons for recommending PTC are as follows:

Customer service -

Firstly, Somehow they made it "easier" to hand over silly amounts of EUR every other day.

Secondly, if you have a problem (and hey lets be realistic no flight school is perfect) they listen and do their best to fix the problem.

Standard of instruction -

The instructors are top class and push you to achieve your goal in each lesson. I passed my Multi IR first time with a tough examiner in a little over minimum hours. What more can I say.

Feel free to PM me for further info.

NCP

[leonsniff]

I was just wondering if anybody could give me any advice. Im due to start training with Sigmar Aviation in South Africa with the 43rd air school however recently i was wondering should i go to the PTC. I would greatly appreciate any advice-positive or negative! Its basically a matter of deciding which school to choose! Thanks in advance!

[birdlady]

43 definately and that is from the horses mouth so to speak. ;) ;)

Leon,

For PPL and hourbuilding I would definately recommend SA for training. 43 has an excellent rep however there are other schools with just as good a rep and cheaper. Im irish and have done all my training here and have not regreted it. You wont be reliant on the irish weather and it will save you a lot of dosh which you could put towards a type rating or something similar :ok: :ok:

You might find this site interesting. It will answer a lot of your questions www.avcom.co.za

Good Luck :ok: :ok:

[Pigsfly]

Guys n gals,

Please note that the above college have raised their ppl ground briefing charges from 20 to 40 euro per hour. Thats not long briefing by the way, its every time an instructor is in your vicinity, the charges are removed from your account. Including short pre flight briefs and general chats.

Be aware.

P

[flybear]

Its 60 an hour for me/ir groundschool.
I understand they need to make money and I think PTC has the chance of being a very good FTO but the greed there is ridiculus.

[Pigsfly]

Well what is groundschool..........I would have no problem being charged for the required Long Briefing.......or structured preparation for my written exams...........and know that this is going to be an item that will be charged to my account. Surely the pre-flight brief before a lesson cannot be construed as same, that is part of the lesson. It seems the management have adopted an agressive charging regime over there in the south-east of Ireland.

They are advertising on PPRUNE (banner) and suggesting a guarantee of FO positions?????????????????.

I agree flybear that it has the possibility of becoming a good facility. But sadly it is taking the road of avarice as its failed predecessors in Waterford did. Perhaps the pickings are just too thin down there and so the stealth charges rise.

Prospective students please note that the new Groundschool charges are not included on the website prices at present and also the timeframes shown for required groundschool are a gross under-statement of what they will bill you for.

P

[mattd2k]

Pigsfly,

You say that you believe a pre-flight briefing to be part of the lesson. Well in that case would you be happy to pay the hourly rate of the a/c hire? :hmm: I think you'll find paying the 40 euros an hour to be a cheaper option. :p

Besides, why shouldn't you pay for your instructors time. He/she has spent a lot of money to get to the position they are in, why should they give you their time for free? :ok:

[potkettleblack]

Besides, why shouldn't you pay for your instructors time. He/she has spent a lot of money to get to the position they are in, why should they give you their time for free?

Generally the problem is that the instructors don't actually see any of this cash. Or at best very little with the FTO/school claiming that they need the bulk for their overheads etc.

[Pigsfly]

This is not a debate about aircraft hire, nor payment for instructors. It is actually about a sudden 100% increase in the charge at this facility, which it has charged to its students accounts but not shown on its website price list. This is in spite of it actively seeking students......

Of course Instructors should be paid professionally for their efforts. And the PTC is entitled to make money as a going concern.

But it is law in Ireland that prices be properly advertised. Price change effected on 1st April and as of last night still not shown on the website. Also students are being told to budget for a number of hours of GS which is not realistic because of their....charge for every chat with an instructor policy.

P

[potkettleblack]

Yeah I have to say my first thoughts are that a policy like that isn't really in the interests of fostering open and honest communication between an instructor and student. Be to tempting to be watching the pennies and not ask as many questions as you would like. Why not just adjust the headline prices to be all inclusive rather than add ons for this and that. Bit like the BA fuel surcharge but that's a debate for another day. Arrgghh:)

[flybear]

I have no problem paying for a service -in this case the instructors time- if i get back a quality service in return.
The groundschool is not good there, the instructors are made to do it by management if there is no flying. they dont like doing as it is unnecessary therefore quality suffers as they are burning up your time to keep management happy.
The following is a rumour which i hope is not true - Accounts told management that ptc is making money on flying but needs to make more money on groundschool, hence the price increase (which was unannounced before it was charged) and the pushing of groundschool on to students. Remember rumour.
btw preflight is charged by the minute, and is always rounded up. at 1 euro a minute that adds up.
every time you chat to an instructor you feel like you're not sure if you will have to pay for it.
the advertising for the "guaranteed of FO opportunities" will be news to all of "qualifying graduates" i'm sure. Unless they mean the mcc in parc but you dont have to go to ptc for that.

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
It's a scam,pure and simple.Hit the gulls where it hurts and they're too unwitting and too intimidated to protest.I encountered it in another school where the net result was that we avoided the instructors unless we absolutely had to, which is difficult,given the need to interact with them.When the instructors began to ask what we were up to, we said that we didn't want to be charged for asking casual questions outside any defined briefing session.Eventually, it led to a group meeting with the boss to iron things out.
Scum.
regards
TDD

[Sprawler]

Its such a shame that yet another FTO in Ireland is getting a bad name for itself. Flight training in Ireland is a joke!
I completed my ME/CPL/IR with a small school in Bournemouth, after being frustrated with my PPL experiences at another FTO in Ireland.
Only two students per Instructor and our Instructor was with us from first thing in the morning until we finished for the day. Briefings were all part of the hourly hire rate. No problem even asking one of the other Instructors for help on something. In fact, if they saw you in a briefing room, they'd generally pop their head in and ask how you were getting on. In my opinion, that's the way any flight school should be run.

[fullrich]

As a student at PTC I disagree with some of what is said here. I have often questioned an instructor in the aircraft, on the way to an aircraft or in the corridor on little questions that I may have and I dont recall being ever charged for their answers. Yes their prices are extreme but this is Ireland and the staff need to be paid like everyone else.As a mature student I understand the ways of buisness and how hard it is to make ends meet in this greedy country, so why should PTC be any different. The level of instruction I have recieved is top class and I have had many instructors in my time at different schools.

[Pigsfly]

there is no Question over the standards of Instruction at PTC, that is not the issue. The issue is (a) price of groundschool....(b) the method of piecemeal charging for groundschool, I have seen a students account and its nothing short of disgraceful (c) false advertising......the school is actively pursuing students with incorrect pricing info advertised on their website.

Ireland is not a greedy country by the way, some people in it are!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and only because people allow them to be. How many times have you heard members of the Govt in Ireland tell people not to accept "Rip off Pricing" and to shop around and do something about the rip off merchants.

I am not a student and have no need for the services of this or any similar institution any more. But I will stick my finger in the eye of those who screw money in a sneaky way from the ranks of Pilot hopefuls. If you want to charge it, put it in your prospectus clearly, so that the student will be able to make a proper and informed financial plan.

I wish the PTC well, but if its management peruse this site, be fair and ethical, be a Training Institution, not a bunch of pick pockets. In the long run, a professional and ethical reputation will pay better than a quick buck.....whatever the bean counters might say!

[nibog]

Approach the boss at the school and request that he honour the prices that he advertised. If he refuses you should contact the Office of the Director of Consumer Affairs in Dublin. The role of ODCA is to give information and guidance to consumers on their statutory rights.
Their Phone number is 1890 220 229.

You probably will not get your money back but you might persuade the organisation to correct its advertisments or provide their services at the previous price as a gesture of goodwill.

At the end of the day if you still aren't happy, learn your lessons, know your rights, don't go back.
Good Luck

[Pigsfly]

Thanks Nibog,

As I am not a student it may be useful to those who are and those affected. The price list on the website is still not correct............so beware.

P

[Mike Edgeworth]

In response to recent claims made on this forum I would like to respond as follows. My comments are based on my interpretations of the various claims made on this forum and are entirely without prejudice.

1. Re: person referring to themselves as “PigsFly” comments made on 27th April at 10:47 28th April at 08:54 and 29th April at 11:11.

Comment: Ground Briefing Charges raised at PTC from €20 to €40 per hour. These charges are not for Long Briefings but for “everytime an instructor is in your vicinity” and for “general Chats”

Response: These claims are factually incorrect. Ground School charges are for Ground School. Preflight briefings are not charged extra neither are any forms of “general chats”.

Generally we find that we have to conduct specific groundschool sessions on pertinent topics which students need to improve their knowledge on prior to being at a standard capable of obtaining a first time pass in their flight test. The time required varies with each student. We conduct group ground school lessons with students at the same level in order to minimize the cost to the individual. The rate for this is €30 per hour.

Comment: Management has adapted an aggressive charging regime.
Response: This is untrue. Management of PTC is of the highest caliber and conducts their business affairs on a fair and reasonable basis. There is no strategy in PTC to be aggressive in our Management methods.

Comment: PTC guarantees F/O positions.
Response: This is untrue. PTC does however guarantee an airline interview for graduates of PTC who reach a standard that we consider acceptable to the airlines we deal with. This explains why 98% of our graduates are in airline jobs.

Comment: PTC will follow its failed predecessor at Waterford.
Response: I don’t fully understand this comment. I was not aware that PTC had a predecessor at Waterford. Perhaps this refers to a training school which existed some time in the past.

Comment: Pickings to thin down in the South East of Ireland.
Response: PTC is operating at full capacity with students from all over Europe USA & Australia. I don’t think that the availability of students in the South East of Ireland is a significant Market driver towards the viability of PTC. As a JAA FTO we are addressing the market in the JAA jurisdiction and beyond for ICAO to JAA conversions.

Comment: Time frame required for groundschool gross understatement of what students will be billed for.
Response: Times in all aspects of Pilot training including those published by JAA are minimum times required. The actual time required will depend largely on the student, his/her abilities and the study time he / she is prepared to devote to theoretical knowledge learning outside the college. This scenario is not particular to PTC it is I generally accepted norm in the industry. The primary objective at PTC is that we will strive at all times to train to a standard whereby the student will obtain a first time pass in all his / her tests and exams and obtain quality employment in a reasonable timeframe.

Comment: PTC is involved in “piecemeal charging for Groundschool”
Response: This is untrue. All Flying Training Slots are pre-booked on our computerized reservation system. A schedule of these is given to the student at the outset. Training slots are carried out in accordance with this schedule or in accordance with necessary alterations depending on weather, student progress and many other factors. Charges are made only when the training slot is completed.

Comment: PTC is a “bunch of pickpockets”

Response: This claim is categorically untrue and unnecessarily damaging to an FTO whose employees are of the highest caliber in the industry and all of whom operate to the highest standards of integrity and honesty. I invite the claimant on behalf of our employees and Management to substantiate this statement.

2. Re: person referring to themselves as “Flybear” comments made on 27th April at 23:06 and 29th April 11:11.

Comment: PTC charge €60 per hour for ME/IR groundschool.

Response: This is correct. I believe that this is a reasonable rate per hour for senior instructors conducting ME / IR Groundschool. PTC pays instructors 50% of the hourly rate charged by the College to students. The balance goes towards overheads and towards further investment in developing the College. As part of our strategic development plan we are not taking any profits from the business in the first five years of operations. I have always believed that instructors should be paid as professionals for their very valuable work. My dentist charges me the equivalent of €150 per hour for consultation. His training and investment in his career is not any greater than that of a senior Flight and/or Groundschool instructor.

Comment: PTC is suffering from “Greed”

Response: While this may be the perception of some this claim could not be further from the truth. The costs associated with operating a business in any developed country these days are substantial. There are very few commercial enterprises in this industry that are in a position to be greedy…. Flying schools certainly not. If we were making excessive charges and cutting corners on our service level, quality of equipment or personal attention to our students I could understand such a claim being made but let me assure you this is not the case. I really think that before making such statements or using such words one should be better informed.

Comment: Groundschool is not good in PTC
Response: We are not perfect and we consistently strive to improve our standards. However I do believe that our instructors and the quality of our instruction is at a level which puts us at the forefront of the industry. If not why are the vast majority of our students obtaining first time passes and why are our graduates being employed in large numbers.

Comment: Instructors are made to do Groundschool by Management. They are “burning up time to keep management happy”

Response: This claim is untrue. The decision on a students need for groundschool is made by the instructor and / or the CFI. Nobody is forced to do Groundschool. Our instructors are of a caliber whereby I don’t think it would be possible to force them to do something that they considered incorrect or unnecessary. Our internal corporate culture is in fact the direct opposite whereby all employees are given latitude to express themselves and to carry out their duties at their own discretion within the scope of the Operations manual of the FTO.

Comment: Rumor that Accounts told Management that PTC was making money from Flying but not from Groundschool hence increases in charges.

Response: Our internal management structure does not lend itself to one division telling the other what to do. We regularly discuss issues and make decision accordingly. These discussions involve at least one person from each division of the College so up to 8 people can participate in such discussions. At the end of such discussion a number of decisions are agreed and implemented. Increases in all forms of charges can be included in such decisions. This is the way any professional well run business operates. Rumors are best ignored. It’s better to get factual information before making judgments.

Comment: PTC is advertising “guaranteed F/O positions.

Response: See response above.

3. Re: person referring to themselves as “PotKettleBlack” comments made on 28th April at 10:38

Comment: Instructors don’t actually see any of the cash.

Response: This claim is untrue. Instructors get 50% of the fee charged for groundschool. From the outset I have adapted the philosophy that the days of instructors working for charity were over as far as PTC was concerned. Instructors are hard working highly skilled people who are dedicated to their tasks and their industry. Unfortunately due to their level of dedication they are open to exploitation. At PTC we respect our instructors and we pay them accordingly. Gross earnings for instructors at PTC range from aprox. €2,500 to €5,500 per month.

4. Re: person referring to themselves as “TwoDead Dogs” comments made on 28th April at 15:00

Comment: It’s a Scam pure & simple.

Response: Can’t figure out where the evidence is to substantiate this claim. Let me assure you that this claim is factually incorrect. If you can substantiate this claim please forward your evidence to me. I assume that you are a pilot or student pilot. If so I urge you to desist from making such judgments on any issue unless that you have fully researched the facts.

5. Re: person referring to themselves as “Sprawler” comments made on 28th April at 15:36

Comment: Another FTO in Ireland getting a bad name. Flight training in Ireland is a joke.

Response: PTC has a very good reputation in Ireland and abroad. Please don’t make judgments based on spurious rumors. PTC has one primary objective which is to bring a high level of professionalism to the pilot training industry in Ireland and we are succeeding in this task. Were not perfect but we are as good as the best and better in some cases. Remember I was a student pilot at one time also and I experience the good and the bad in the industry.
Flight training in Ireland is now a serious industry. Ireland is in one of the most advantageous positions within Europe to becoming the centre of excellence for pilot training. Why ? because we have freely available airspace, some of the best weather in the British Isles (South East Ireland famous for its favorable micro climate) cheaper fuel, no VAT charges, no delays at airports queuing for taxy, takeoff and approach, minimal approach charges (€1.5 per approach at Waterford), freely available cheap accommodation etc. etc.

Substantial investment is being employed by PTC and as a result Ireland is been taken seriously by the international aviation community as a dominant centre for pilot training in the JAA jurisdiction.

I can see that you have formed your opinion about PTC from the other comments made on this forum. Might I suggest that you don’t take everything on this forum at face value. Instead I recommend that you research the facts first then perhaps reconsider your opinion on PTC. In this way you will find out for yourself what we are about and what we are achieving in Ireland.

6. Re: person referring to themselves as “Nibog” comments made on 29th April at 18:29

Comment: Approach the Boss with grievances.

Response: This is a very sensible comment. I welcome any feedback from students, prospective students, competing colleges and industry enthusiasts which will help to achieve our objectives. I don’t however agree with making anonymous claims on an anonymous forum for which there is no accountability. Anyone can make claims such as those made in this forum about an organization without having to provide any evidence. Competitors can misuse this forum to try to damage fellow competitors.

While I felt it necessary to provide this response to the various comments raised when they were brought to my attention, it is not my intention to make any further comment on this forum due to the fact that I am responding to unknown parties who choose to use pseudonyms. I will however respond to any comment or query which is sent to me by post or brought to my attention verbally by the person raising the concern and in this case I will deal sympathetically and positively with all concerns raised.

Might I suggest as a general point that people within the aviation industry that have genuine contribution to make to improving conditions within the industry might consider doing so on this and or other forums and that they might authenticate their points by putting their names to their comments. Comments made by people hiding behind pseudonyms are unlikely to be taken seriously. In addition, the use of pseudonyms allows those with a vested interest in damaging organizations and individuals the ability to do so without any accountability.

I hope that I have gone some way towards clarifying some issues and please feel free to write phone or e/mail me at any time if you wish to contribute to the success of the Pilot training college of Ireland.

With very best wishes to all in aviation

Yours Sincerely

Mike Edgeworth
Chief Executive Officer
The Pilot Training College of Ireland.

[potkettleblack]

Now now Mike you misquoted me and cherry picked my thread. Nice to read your reply though and I am glad that your school sees fit to share on an equitable basis the g/s fees with your instructors. As you would be aware many schools don't and we get the sad situation of instructors struggling from hand to mouth to survive whilst students are under the impression that they are reasonably well paid.

On another note, since your following this thread close.....I have been following the PTC/Bournemouth thread as I am considering PTC Waterford for my multi CPL/IR later in the summer. Can you confirm that Tony Kember is NOT involved with your organisation? By that I mean has no financial interest/management position etc. Cheers.

[fonz77]

I just finished my PPL at PTC in Waterford so i think i can comment on this.
You dont decide where to go training simply by looking at a website (PTC or PPrune). You make a telephone call, go to the college. Speak to the people there. If you ring PTC, even before this thread was started i'm 100% sure they would have told you the correct prices for groundschool. Therefore using the term pickpockets implies theft or robbery without your knowledge. This is simply not the case. If you dont know what you're being charged or what your paying for, that is nobody elses fault but you own.

[Pigsfly]

In reply to the person who refers to himself as Mike Edgeworth. If you are the CEO perhaps you should have a look at what your accounts Dept is up to, or not up to as the case may be. My info is derived from the inspection of accounts of two students at PTC and conversation with a third.

1. If your groundschool rate is 30 Euro per hour why are you charging your students 40 per hour, also why did you put up a notice in the school late march increasing the price from 20 to 40 Euro per hour. Do you actually know what is going on at your school?????? Aslo I notice that the charges have now, in the last couple of hours from 20 to 40 on the website!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. If you do not charge for pre flight briefings, why do charges groundschool for the pre flight brief appear on students accounts and removed from their Balance?

If you are the real Mike Edgeworth, as I feel you are, perhaps you should take a look at some students accounts, be it instructors that are submitting time cards for groundschool, or an over zealous accounts clerk, someone is letting you down.

Enough said on the matter now anyway.

[november.sierra]

One thing I've noticed is that since opening for business, the prices quoted on the website for the ME-IR have increased from nearly €16k to nearly €20k.

Any comment on that?

[pipergirl]

I just printed off a list of PTC's pricelist earlier and I came across this thread.

Looking at what I printed earlier today;

"Ground briefings for flight exercises" (for PPL ) is €40 per hour

"Ground briefings" for ME Rating is €50 per hour

"Ground briefings"for CPL is €50 per hour

"Ground briefings" for ME IR is €60 per hour

Generally we find that we have to conduct specific groundschool sessions on pertinent topics which students need to improve their knowledge on prior to being at a standard capable of obtaining a first time pass in their flight test. The time required varies with each student. We conduct group ground school lessons with students at the same level in order to minimize the cost to the individual. The rate for this is €30 per hour.

So, you say that there is no charge for pre-flight briefings, and that there is a €30 charge for groundschool. (That €30 fee is not mentioned anywhere on the 2006 Price List) Can you clarify what the above mentioned fees are for,as I am a bit confused! Are they classroom sessions, pre-flight?

[carbheaton]

Person referring to themselves as “Mike Edgeworth” comments made on 1st May 2006.

News for you Mike – this is a Rumour and News network and I have yet to see a post that didn’t have some truth in it. No smoke without fire and all that.

I am not qualified to get involved with the quality or otherwise of the training at PTC Waterford, which by the way is not being questioned by the original poster, but I am qualified to comment on Avaition training in Ireland and its not good. To that end I cannot let your comments quoted below go unopposed.

Quote


…..Flight training in Ireland is now a serious industry. Ireland is in one of the most advantageous positions within Europe to becoming the centre of excellence for pilot training. Why ? because we have freely available airspace, some of the best weather in the British Isles (South East Ireland famous for its favorable micro climate) cheaper fuel, no VAT charges, no delays at airports queuing for taxy, takeoff and approach, minimal approach charges (€1.5 per approach at Waterford), freely available cheap accommodation etc. etc.

Substantial investment is being employed by PTC and as a result Ireland is been taken seriously by the international aviation community as a dominant centre for pilot training in the JAA jurisdiction.


The only thing that is serious about flight training in Ireland is that it is seriously expensive and I have never, in all the training I have done there, ever come even close to spending the “price list” that was quoted. Strangely enough sundries like ground briefs etc were a fair source of the over spend. The most substantial source of over spend though was the endless waiting for examiners from the authority, the IAA. I know of several people who have waited anywhere between 6 and 10 weeks for a skills test and all the while having to stay current, which meant spending thousands of euro over the budget.

What has that got to do with PTC. Well, strictly speaking, nothing but don’t come on here and try and make out that, and I quote,

“. Ireland is in one of the most advantageous positions within Europe to becoming the centre of excellence for pilot training”

because its so not.

Finally your cheap shot about the anonymity of the posters on this forum is beneath you. Obviously a student of the other brash CEO’s who are trying to brow beat vulnerable students into keeping their mouths shut and hoping that the sharper practices that they pick up on during their training are kept out of the public domain. Well good for all you who have the courage to post your experiences. I think that most of us are capable of discerning those with a grudge and those who have something to say that will benefit fellow students and hopefully prevent them from making the same mistakes. I notice that as a result of this thread you have seen fit to correct your incorrect prices quoted on your web site.


My advice to those who are considering training in Ireland is to research it thoroughly and then decide to go elsewhere.

[lesser weevil]

Might I suggest as a general point that people within the aviation industry that have genuine contribution to make to improving conditions within the industry might consider doing so on this and or other forums and that they might authenticate their points by putting their names to their comments. Comments made by people hiding behind pseudonyms are unlikely to be taken seriously. In addition, the use of pseudonyms allows those with a vested interest in damaging organizations and individuals the ability to do so without any accountability.


As to the pseudonmyns and the 'putting their names to their comments', I somehow cannot see anyone doing this. One reason quite high on the list would be that it might make enemies, and I think that people on this thread aren't willing to do so, especially if they do have close contact with PTC.

If I had a flight school, and I went on a website and there were named students/ex students (and others, of course, I doubt that more than one or two are students / ex students) from my school posting somewhat negative comments about my school, I don't expect my attitude towards them would be the same as it had been before I found their posts.

I'm not at PTC, and personally I am trying to avoid giving either a negative or a positive opinion of the company, but as aviation is a pretty small community, I, as most others on this thread, would prefer to remain in anonymity.

I'm afraid that I disagree with the comment that people using pseudonyms will not be taken seriously. On the contrary, I think that people are likely to take them very seriously indeed.

Good luck
LW

[Flyman24]

Having been enrolled as a student at many of the training establishments including PTC in Ireland I feel the need to clarify a few bits! I graduated out of Cabair College of Air Training on the integrated course, having passed all the atpl ground and flight exams!, I still find myself hunting for that elusive first job! I spent some time at the Pilot Training College of Ireland and can honestly say I have never come across a more professionally run outfit! All of the new graduates from there have found themselves in jobs at Aer Arann and Ryanair to name a few (there are more)!! This is no Fluke!, All the students there are given the tools and knowledge to go on to be a fully competent commercial airline pilot! And of course all this comes at a price!, It is essential each and every pilot is equipped with good theoretical knowledge to enable them to cope in a pressurised commercial environment! This is why the staff and management of PTC feel it is entirely necessary that they put this into force and having been through numerous training places i stand with them on their quest to do so! Anyone thinking of where to train will not be better looked after and be more professionally trained than at the PTC of Ireland.

Having spent a huge fortune at the likes of Cabair and other such places and come away with nothing more than a few papers, new trainees need to have a serious think about the level they need to be at to fly in the highly pressurised comercial environment which exists today!

[cheekycapt]

Welcome to Ireland rip -off Country !

[pipergirl]

All the students there are given the tools and knowledge to go on to be a fully competent commercial airline pilot! And of course all this comes at a price!,

yes, all student pilots are striving for that, however, paying through the nose for it, is not necessarily the "correct" way of doing it.

I visited PTC and it seems like a good setup. Very professional, but not unlike other schools I have visited. What stands out for me, is the price of the training. It is extremely expensive....and OK, apart from the fact they will get you an interview with an airline, I just do not see the justification in spending such a large amount of money there.

[captwannabe]

Flyman24 speaks of ex-PTC students who got jobs with Ryanair.

I wonder how many of them paid for their Type Rating, just like everyone else! If you are willing to spend €30k for a TR, and live without an income for a few years, then FR will hire you! Of course MOL sees it as an advantage if you're Irish or Scandinavian (preferably a blonde Swede).

Rip Off Ireland! Has Mr. Hobbs been posting on these forums.......(?) ;)

[Pigsfly]

You have positive comment in relation to your experiences at PTC. That is good to hear. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to whether you were charged for post/preflight briefing and exactly when you finished training there.

Again as starter of this thread the standards of training of this establishment is not the issue, its the charges and methods of charging for short periods of briefing/de-briefing.

The thread has succeeded in getting the college to amend its online price list, albeit a month after they started charging the new prices. Also I note their adveretising page online now clearly states that Hourly rate for instruction includes cost of Pre/postflight briefing/de briefing.

Thanks to the power of pprune that these amendments have brought this matter to public forum and same has been addressed. I hope all at the facility benefit and that prospective students can make a more accurate cost analysis.

Best of Luck to all.

[CaptainKC]

Wow! a very interesting thread indeed. I have had the expierence of wasted money on poor training and comparitively the expierence of excellent training for a little more cost which was worth every cent to gain my ppl. Anyone who is attempting to persue a flying career will be of good intellegence and this thread has highlighted the equal importance of taking as much effort to research your chosen FTO for your hard borrowed money. I decided to check out the PTC for myself in person last week and flew into Waterford. I was very impressed with the set up and everything was given to me cost wise for the CPL and ME/IR with the added 'these are minimum requirements' and each student will differ depending on the effort and ability of the individual. I got the feel of a very professional outfit who are striving for excellence. They have a very good rep for passing flight tests! I also looked at the ATPL ground school notes from Naples for €2,500 so here is my appeal for some advice from some of you expierenced aviators.......

Your off-topic request for information has been deleted. Please use an appropriate thread for information about other schools. Scroggs.

[november.sierra]

Like I said previously, the fees for the ME-IR at PTC have increased from around €16,000 to around €20,000 since being open for business and I'm sure many people would agree that €20k is not cheap. Also, what charges can be expected on top of their quoted price, I'm thinking in terms of landing and approach fees.

I would be very interested to hear from PTC students to see if the high price is worth paying there, and particularly how PTC compares to other FTO's such as Atlantic Air in Cork.

[The Mixmaster]

Have found this website very useful so far in attempting to make a decision as to who to train with, however I'm surprised there's no info on the Pilot Training College of Ireland based in Waterford.

Had a word with one of their marketing reps at the recent London Airshow who seemed very friendly (well guess they're paid to be so). She mentioned that it was one of the only FTO's that offers 1on1 tuition when in the sky, most others have a ration of 2 or 3 tutee's to tutors. Is this the case at places like Stapleford, CTC etc?

If anyone's trained with this crowd, I'd be most appreciative if you could post up your experiences thoughts etc. :ok:

[potkettleblack]

Most "quality" CPL/IR courses tend to run on the basis of 1 instructor to 2 students with a dedicated aircraft for the instructor. That way you brief with your buddy in the morning and alternate between flying or back seating during the day. Don't underestimate the benefit of back seating as you will learn so much sitting in the back watching someone else go through the hoops.

Things you don't want to see in the CPL/IR are:-

- 1 aircraft between a number of instructors
- getting shoved around various instructors who will all invariably have different ways of doing things

As for PTC I think on average they get good press. However I have lost count of the number of Irish wannabees I come across training in the UK. I think the decision to come across the ditch could be down to price rather than any quality concerns.

[dno1playa]

Hey
Just wondering does anyone have any information or exprince with the pilot traning college in Ireland?.

Thanks

[scroggs]

Ooh look, a three-page thread all about PTC Ireland. Amazing what a 'search' brings up...:ugh:

Scroggs

[borris]

The PTC in Waterford guarantee an airline interview after the 12-14 month course.
Is this the case?
Has anyone done this course?
Is it worth the €75k price tag?
Are the facilities in Florida good?

[captwannabe]

Do a search for Pilot Training College Waterford, there's another thread. Have a look at the Fling In Ireland forums @ www.flyinginireland.com/forum (http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum)

I thought all their training was done at Waterford airport??? Florida??? €75k??? :confused:

[EIRE-PLANER]

Hi allHad a look at this FTO myself, the PPL and hour building to 130hrs is in florida the rest is conducted at waterford.E75000 ?? dont forget the E4500 for the MCC total 79.5k

[aerobatic_dude]

So you go off and learn in florida where the skies are blue, the winds are calm, and then you come back to Ireland where days with blue skies and calm winds are a rareity. You have more chance of dragging blood from a stone. PTC are good at the commercial end of things. Very professional outfit. Friendly staff, but if I were you, i'd do my PPL with an RTF in Ireland and only then go and start worrying about PTC.

[captwannabe]

When did they start sending people to Florida and charging €75k? Was this always the case? Where in Florida do they send you?

[captwannabe]

They must have jumped up the prices recently. I never remember them being that expensive. Does that €75k include accomodation?

[potkettleblack]

There must be a reason why I keep on bumping into so many Irish folk in places like Bournemouth. Me thinks it has a lot to do with the rip off Ireland cause.

[Captain N]

Hi all
Just thought i share my experience with PTC.
well to be fair, never went down ther and havent seen the set up.
I moved back to ireland to start with them, got everything sorted and even arranged an assessment day. then suddenly I get a price list by email which is very different from the published price list on the website, well about 10K more and their excuse: this includes "everything"
well if I remeber correctly the website prices included test fees and test aircraft etc and they even changed PPl and hour builing to florida so surely that makes it a bit cheaper!
anyway I changed my plans and now I'm at a school in greece total price 20K cheaper :D than PTC and I'm very happy with everything, my progrees is great too. AND you get great weather all year around compared to just during ur PPl and hour build;)

my advise: come to greece, dont waste ur money and time

[captwannabe]

If accomodation was included for the duration of the training, then maybe €75k is justified. But otherwise, they're having a laugh all the way to the bank.

Captain N,
Where are you training in Greece?

[Pigsfly]

A little vulture told me that they told one of their two maintainance staff that he would have to accept a three day working week a few days ago, because things were quiet. Well alegedly he told them it was a full weeks work or nothing, so he has gone walkabout.

[EIRE-PLANER]

PTCs Airline Pilot Training Programme Total Package includes the following items:

*Flight Training: (ATPL frozen)
*Ground Training
*Equipment
*Books and Manuals
*Accomodation
Shared Accomodation in Waterford for all modules
Shared Accomodation in USA-Orlando
*Travel :Return travel from ireland to usa
*Security Charges
*Examination Fees
*Test Aircraft Rentals
*Airport Charges
*Fuel Surcharge
*FAA Medical Fees

PTC s Airline pilot training programme excludes the following
*MCC at parc aviation
*Fuel Surcharge-any additional fuel surcharge that maybe added due to published increase in Fuel Charges
*Uniform
*Utilities for accomodation in USA and Ireland
*Any additional hours outside of regulatory requirements or any costs associated with repeat examinations :ok:

[captwannabe]

So it will cost €80k with the MCC, and I don't know, another €5k for good measure?! :eek:

[EIRE-PLANER]

Thats pritty much it from what i can disern from some of the other modular route threads its compulsory to add in 10%-15% contingency fund in your budget/financial plan, +beer money :rolleyes:

[viggi_pilot]

Hi all.

As the title suggests I'm trying to get some information regarding the Pilot Training COllege of Ireland (PTC). I'm not after their own opinions about them selves but I'm after the opinions of anyone who has even had any dealings with them.

I'm considering applying for their Airline Pilot Program and just wondered what experince other people have had with them.

Any info would be great.

Thanks.

[pipergirl]

We do the CPL in the Arrow for €273 per hour unfortunately we cannot provide this service at Weston as the facilities there do not comply with those required by a JAR FTO.

Regards,

George Edgeworth

The PilotTrainingCollege of Ireland
WaterfordAirport
Killowen
Co. Waterford
Ireland
Tel: +353 51 876706
Fax: +353 51 876709


I'm sure National Flight Centre in Weston would have something to say about that...what a load of B*ll***s

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
E273 for an Arrow is a sick joke...so is paying for fuel surcharges...needless to say, that little tax won't adjust downwards,ever...Florida's weather is highly variable and I absolutley guarantee you'll get plenty of non-sunny weather there,too....I have been to America and the UK for CPL training and recurrency training since 2000 and would never give a cent to an Irish FTO if I could possibly avoid it.I've been ****** around too often by some of the well-known names to ever bother using them again.Any school I have ever used abroad has been much better at a professional and personal level, with only one exception.
As an example of things perpetrated by an Irish FTO, I was in the flight office booking a lesson on a twin.The phone rang and was answered by the person dealing with me.The caller was a person who was about to leave home to have a lesson in that twin and was checking ahead.The staff member then told the caller that the aircraft was u/s and was likely to stay that way for the day.The caller reiterated that it was a bit of luck that he had called and berated the staff member for not bothering to call him and warn him off.The staff member swore that she'd just been about to do that,etc before putting the phone down and returning her attention to me. Just then, the twin took off, roaring off within earshot off the office."So, it's clearly not u/s", I sez."Nah",sez the s.m., "just clearing the bookings so that a friend of the Boss can have it for his flight test." So, everyone else got ****** over and lied to, while the s.m. was doing something she was clearly used to doing.....I took my trade elsewhere and have never looked back.
The Irish FTOs seem to believe that standards of decent public service don't apply to them.
regards
TDD

[FL179]

Hi Folks,

Let me tell you why I personally think people shouldn't make pre-payments to PTC.

I enrolled for a quick BFR and they charged my credit card for the full amount of the estimated cost of the flights €700. After ringing up a few days prior and having difficulty getting hold of my assigned instructor (who actually sounded quite sharp) I was told "Thursday would be better" than than the Wed I had booked. I agreed and turned up on Thurs.

I then discovered arrived to the sly comment "oh, he's here today" (comment #2 after hello). Needless to say, I was somewhat dissappointed that the airport was fogged in for the day and agreed with the instructor that the best course of action was to return to Dublin.

This was the travel expenses, B&B etc down the chute but something you learn to accept when you fly. However, what happened next shocked me. Mike Edgeworths relation (son?), George told me I had forfeitted the €700 as I had terminated training and I wasn't getting any refund! He appeared determined to hold onto the money fiercely until I pushed the issue. I had returned to work in Dublin because the flights were cancelled due to weather and didn't have any days off to go down again soon.

After many emails and phone calls (i.e. I'm not going to forget about this) I got in touch with Mike who finally agreed to refund €500 but wanted to keep €200 for setting up the "course" for me (as if they did 5 hours preparation at their rate of €40/hour for a quick BFR).

I'm not really concerned about the money but really feel I've been taken advantage of PTC. I'm going to presue it further with the Consumer Association and Small Claims Court if necessary but just my personal advise to other students is PAY AS YOU GO!! Only deposit enough funds with any school to cover the next flight.

Mike Edgeworth has been diplomatic and did return my call as requested but I feel they are keen to "hold onto" the money as best they can.

I feel quite hard done by and have never had this experience before.

David

[Confabulous]

Right, you've all put me off PTC - and I thank you for that :E Especially FL179's comments. Nice to find out which schools are and aren't worth going to before I even open my wallet.

[The flying nut]

Does any body have any knowledge of this college. I have only just found out about here and don't know that much about there. Any help would be grately appreciated.

[TolTol]

You have no problems with them yet.....so so many people have had the same problem as FL179.

[phillipsmw]

I would just like to share my limited dealing with PTC Waterford. I enquired about the cost of training for the CPL ME/IR. After receiving the quote I told them that I would keep them in mind, but a different school in the UK had been significantly less expensive.. so I was tending to favour the other school (Aeros Gloucester). Someone from PTC then got back to me with a 'Cost Analysis' comparing the two schools.

At first glance it seemed that I had previously made a mistake with my sums.. this analysis stated that PTC were £500 cheaper.
After checking it over I found that the currency conversion between GBP and Euros had been done using a completely inaccurate rate! I used the accuarate rate at the time and found that PTC were actually £2500 MORE expensive. Thats a £3000 difference!!! :=

Now I dont know whether this was a genuine mistake, or something more sinister, but in either case it isnt very professional. Im not saying not to go to this school, just take extra care!

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
I wouldn't trust a "guarantee" from any Irish FTO.Cold, hard experience tells me that they're not worth the jax paper they're written on.As for a guaranteed interview, well, that's still no nearer the coveted seat.You have to pass the sim check, that's what really counts.
regards
TDD

[up-side-down]

Hi all.

Had problems with PTC like FL197. I was doing a multi/ir course with them and was flying two days a week with them to fit in with my work. I was getting my flying slots one week in advance.One week i got a phone call from George Edgeworth telling me i had slots on the TUES+WEDS the following week. Grand. Then the following Mon i got a phone call from a member of staff. Went somthing like this:
PTC" your flying in ten mins, are you going to bother to turn up. Your instructor has been sitting here for the last hour waiting for you"
ME "i was told it was tuse+ weds by george. Can I speak to him?"
PTC" He is not here. Your down for Mon, Tues,and Weds. Can you make it today?"
ME" No. Ill be down Tomorrow"

I arrived the next day to find out to my anger that my account had been charged 240euro for their mix up:= .I challanged George face to face and was lied to point blank. I also found that they had changed my instructor for the rest of my time there. That was just one of many times they got money off me for avoidable billing items. Shame on them.

My advice is that if you can go elsewhere..GO

[Pigsfly]

Hi Shamrock,

when are you due back from Vero Beach to Waterford. What have you been promised on your return.

[fullrich]

On the contrary to what some say here, I never had a problem with PTC. Slots were seldom cancelled and if they were I always got plenty of notice. Also the staff I dealt with were very helpfull in fitting me in to suit my schedule. I would say my experience was that those who maintained full/parttime employment completed thier training in almost the same time as those that were fulltime students. Thats probalbly due more to the Irish weather that anything else and a bit of luck aswell.

[itsbrokenagain]

When did you train at PTC fullrich. If it was a coupla months ago, then you will find the guy who was above board and kept the operation in check and removed or reduced a lot of the problems now talked about has since left his "management" position at Waterford.. I feel that his leaving may be a big reason we are seeing these problems at PTC now. Pity as it had the makings of a great school once upon a time...

[deltaxray]

Does anyone know what ptc is like???
I am considering going but have heard very mixed responses.:confused:

[VORTIME]

Treated me very poorly. Money snatching and unethical IMHO...
VT

[travnet]

hi there just wondering if any of ye have tried training with the pilot training college of ireland based in waterford, just looking to find out a bit more and see if anyone has completed their ATPL there and what the general thought were of the place

I've decided that i'm going to do my ATPL this year of never do it so im real eager to find the right place to do it was thinking of this place cause they seem good plus its local for me also if you pass an assment course with them then AIB one of the main banks in ireland will provide you with a loan for the full amount (€75000) of the course, which u dont pay back until course is over and you have found a job Terms and Conditions apply to this of course!!

any feedback would be greatly appreciated thanks lads.

[deltaxray]

Im in the same boat. Im thinking of starting in Waterford in September. I went to their open day and they seem to know what they were talking about. I've been to other schools where i knew more than the instructor :rolleyes:. Anyway ive heard nothing but good reviews about the school. I have yet to find someone who was completely disatiafied.

[scroggs]

travnet, it's amazing what you find when you search...

Scroggs

[jet765]

PTC are ok, but a little bit disorganised. its all bout money with them aswell

[Baboon Boy]

The following is a direct quote from these boy's website:

98% Graduate Airline Employment Within two months

PTC graduates work for airlines worldwide. We have a 98% placement record within 2 months of graduation.

Garuanteed Interviews with Major Airline Recruiters

Suitably qualified students of PTC are garuanteed an interview with an airline following graduation.

They claim that all people getting an MCC from them (albeit through Parc Aviation) get a garuanteed interview. This would be with ryan air I presume?

Also, 98% of graduates get an airline job within 2 months? Surely that can't be true? What kind of figure bending has gone on here then?

At first glance all this looks like a load of bollocks, but if it is true, take me there! Anyone else able to expand further?

[powdermonkey]

The MCC in PARC seems to lead ( not always but from talking to friends who have been or are going) to a sim check with the RYANS! ......seems that if you do a good course and they like what they see, your name may be put forward......? No guarantees there is no such thing! Have visited PTC and decided not to go due to ME/IR training costs, but they would appear to be well organised and professional in their approach, but I have no first hand experience and don't know anyone personally who has attended.

[Baboon Boy]

come on ppuners, there must be somebody out there with something to contribute on this issue!

[HomerJay]

I will be heading to Waterford to visit them soon, will be making sure to bring this up. Just ask them

[the ace of spades]

can anybody tel me what the aptitude testing is like in PCI and what is expected of you when you go up for your flight assessment.

[pilot07]

Disappointing stuff from PTC.

Asking a question is "stepping out of line".

It seems they monitor each student for the first move (s)he makes that gives them an oppertunity to stealth charge.

Dont go there :=

[the ace of spades]

ok, i really dont know what you are after saying to me there. can you rephrase pleasehttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon5.gif

[pilot07]

This site is worse than gaydar for bitching!

[the ace of spades]

i am very sorry, but i still really have no idea what you are talking about. do you know anything about the assessment tests and check flight?

[fadge]

Ace of Spades,

I carried out an assessment with PTC last August (at a cost of €295) and this is my experience. The assessment took approximately 5 hours. It involved a series of aptitude and personality tests, then a meeting with one of the training advisors and a flying lesson/assessment to see if I would be a suitable candidate for their "Airline Pilot Training Program".

The aptitude and personality tests were carried out on a computer and involved about 5 or 6 different tests...nothing to difficult. They were based around coordination, memory, basic maths and physics and problem solving. I don’t really think there is any method of preparation for these tests, besides going back over long multiplication and division or practising coordination using flight simulator on playstation. These tests took me about 2 hours to complete.

After that I spoke with an advisor, who explained the structure of training and facilities available. There was a breakdown of all stages with payment and what was and was not included in the cost (most notable was the additional cost of MCC)

After that I went for lunch and returned for my flight. I had never flown before and so I was quite nervous however the pilot put me at ease and explained that this assessment was just to see if I would be capable of handling basic instructions and told me to enjoy the flight. The assessment involved carry out a series of basic manoeuvres (the assumption was that I had never flow before). I had to bank the plane, increase and decrease altitude, fly straight and level, trim and glide the plane towards the runway. The pilot also asked me to point where the airport was at one stage. All the time the pilot was taking notes and scoring each manoeuvre I made.


After the flight the pilot and the advisor looked over my aptitude and flying test results. They told me that some of the results of my aptitude co-ordination tests were reflected in my flying but it was nothing too serious and would be an area of weakness that could be corrected once I started to flying. The pilot recommended that I would be a suitable candidate for their course and recommended I get a class one medical as soon as possible.

Finally, a lady from PTC accounts department spoke to me about financing the course and told me about their “relationship” with AIB. In my opinion, no relationship really exists. Staff from Waterford AIB have visited the airport and know of the course, but they do not offer any reduced rates for the course and the same terms and conditions apply as per a normal term loan for the amount. I have decided to do my training in Canada., however I found the whole assessment to be very useful in confirming my ambition to be a pilot. I hope this is of some help

[the ace of spades]

that is brilliant,thankyou very much.just a by the way,when you were turning the aircraft were increasing power and puling back on the stick etc?were you told of any altitude change tolerances?

[fadge]

not that i can remember. As I mentioned, the flight is about your ability to undertake instruction rather than your knowledge or flying ability.
.

[liffey2alpha]

fadge,
i'm taking the assessement shortly at PTC just wondering what was the dress code for the tests,should i wear a suit or something more casual?

[flyasthesky]

Thank you for the above post Fadge;)

[TolTol]

Jesus christ guys, its just a flight school. Do you really think they are going to turn you away if your not wearing a tie or if you were not able to trim the aircraft on your first flight? By the way, accounts department in PTC, LOL!!

[cfwake]

some will! OAT expect you to be suited and booted or they don't want to know, at least for the APP selection that I know about. they get plenty of applicants so they, at least, can be picky about taking people and get funny, as many businesses do, if you turn up looking scruffy - like most companies around the world!

[MIKECR]

Its your money theyre after, nothing else. They couldnt give a monkeys what you look like

[cfwake]

i'd disagree! have been to numerous places that at the end of the day are after your money, while some places aren't bothered some are - do you want to take the chance - after all, while they may want your money (as anywhere does), you want to get into the school, don't you? first impressions are always important, and don't forget that the person who wants your money may (or may not) be the person who knows someone that will get you your first big interview. but then again, if you turn up in jeans and a t shirt, it can do you the world of harm from a professionalism point of view.

[MIKECR]

Prospective student - "I'd like to enroll in flight training please"

Flying school member of staff - "Sorry, we dont accept people with jeans on"

Prospect student - "But I have £100,000!"

Flying School Boss- "Step right this way sir, please excuse my idiotic member of staff for insulting your dress style, your jeans look absolutely marvellous...........now let me show you our facilities"

I rest my case!

[cfwake]

Airline CFI - 'Who would you recommend that's here for training?'

FTO boss has a think...who does he have that he can send? he has quite a few students, all pretty good. Oh no, wait, one of them always looks like a mess. He's no better than anyone else, is this one of the people he's going to send to represent his school? Is he arse.

For the sake of looking smart, l2a, don't forget that there are a lot of people who are happy to spend the same money you are, probably more than your chosen fto can take, so don't feel stupid because when you turn up other people look smart and you are in jeans etc. Professionalism from day one, irrelevant of who you're talking to, is important, as you and i constantly hear, flying is a very small world, you never know who'll remember you as the lad who turned up looking like a scruff, while everyone else was in a suit. for my part, mikecr, it's not worth it you don't know who you'll bump into.

[cfwake]

however, mike, i will make clear that i'm talking about integrated ftos that require an assessment process! when i was looking at modular schools which tend to be less formal, because they're smaller, then i'd agree that you don't need to get suited and booted! but PTC looks like a school like OAT, FTE etc so I'd still argue to look smart when you go!

[MIKECR]

Better press your best slacks and xmas disney tie then!

[cfwake]

that's more like it! personally, tho, i'd go for something along the lines of a piano key, simpsons or novelty plastic number with a scene inside like my dad has, for some disturbing reason!

[liffey2alpha]

i'd have to agree with cfwake no harm in making an effort to dress well when making the effort to go to the place.wasnt thinking of jeans anyways more smart vs a suit,thanks for the advice as ye say 1st impressions are important.:ok:

cfwake you mentioned how PTC were a school like OAT or FTE, going by alot of posts throughtout the forums not many people agree, a lot of bitchin about the place,i went to Oxford a while back for the 2 days got chatten a few lads who had plenty of bad things to say about there to but admitted as we all know nowhere is perfect.
Changing the topic slightly,talking to students in Oxford doing the ATPL's who with full time ground school find the subjects very tough how much more difficult is it trying to make the grade using distance learning as is used with PTC???

[MIKECR]

Liffey,

You have to be very disciplined to do them distance learning. You also need the time to commit to them. When I did my ATPL's, I did them full time, it worked best that way for me. I passed them all 1st time and averaged over 90% for all subjects. I did however start initially on distance learning but got nowhere fast. I didnt have the time to commit and probably lacked the discipline to sit down and study. When I switched to full time, I never looked back.

[cfwake]

well you know what i mean! in that it's more like OAT and FTE in its set up than a smaller flying school/club whose primary line of business is not atpl, if that makes sense!!!!!!!

[Potential]

Hi,
I'm going for my PTC assessment next Tuesday and have a few questions. Given that the assessment seems less formal than for other FTOs I was going to go for smart dress, without going for a full suit. Would others who have been agree that this would be satisfactory? Also there doesn't seem to be any interview mentioned, just a briefing/discussion with a training advisor. Is there no why do you want to do this? Why should we take you? What do you know about PTC etc? Also Fadge mentions a Physics test as part of the assessment. I thought it was just a flight check and Compass including the maths test? Also on that subject, what are the Maths questions like?

[Potential]

One more question - is there a bus from Waterford city to the airport or do you have to take a taxi?
Cheers

[fadge]

Potential

As far as I know there are no buses to Waterford airport but you could check the bus eireann website. If there are any, i'm sure it will be a pretty limited service so it may be easier to just get a taxi. As for the physics test, again like I said before it is nothing to get worked up about. They are not asking for formula or anything like that, just a basic understanding of physics concepts like how levers work and what happens a object when you apply a certain force to it etc. For the most part, in my opinion its common sense. Good luck with it and enjoy the day. The scenery around waterford is amazing. And regarding what to wear, i wore a polo t-shirt and a pair of Chinos...nobody battered an eyelid.

[liffey2alpha]

PTC or not??????????



Is there anyone curently training with PTC Waterford?? would you recommend them?? what are the instructers like is the big question i gather there is a large turn over of instructors is this true?? does doing the ATPL's full time from home without much instruction really work?? :confused:

[davey147]

Are there any people who have airline jobs now, who trained at PTC. There must be 98% of all students who go there get airline jobs within 2 months.

[fabiensf]

Anybody have any info on the ATPL DL at PTC in Ireland please?

[fullrich]

Yes, I went through PTC once. Fact is that we all got jobs and like 'most' ppruners left the board once employed. So the answer is in your question with regards jobs.
When I did the DL course the notes were the same notes as used at NAC in florida and the dl support likewise and I suspect the same now. You will need to motivate yourself to complete the course and not depend on PTC or NAC to pull you through. I studied part time and completed all in 9 months first time passes as did many others. PTC will not get you a job but will set you on the right road if of course you can pass sim checks and in most cases pay for type ratings. Rmemeber , Ireland is a small place and aviation world is even smaller .
FR

[davey147]

What email address are you using to contact them. I've been emailing them now for a month, and they dont have the decency to email back.

[Potential]

I found them pretty quick at replying to emails. I was in contact with one of their staff from their admissions office called Siobhan. Her email address is [email protected]

[aF380]

PLEASE is it a good school
98% student have a job is it true
where are the ex student
which airlines

[davey147]

Wow this school is great. 98 out of 100 students placed as pilots with international airlines within 2 months of graduating, if this was true all other schools would go out of business. This is better than OATs placement rate, much better.

Everytime I ask them to justify this, they change the subject.

[aF380]

so where are you now
are you in ptc

[Atlantic crossing]

Mmmm. Sounds to me like PTC are effectively offering something they can't provide. Looking at their website it says that they will get you an airline interview at month 13 of the course. From someone who is in the industry I would plead with wannabees to be very careful when choosing a training organisation, any training organisation might I add, not just this one. Their marketing depts will promise you everything they can to get you in the door. I remember the training organisation I trained with doing the same all those years ago. I am not knocking this organisation but someone came to me for advise about this place recently. I got the impression that he left the place thinking all he had to do was turn up for 13 months and a job would be waiting for him. I did my best to put him straight. From someone who now flies in the left seat I have flown with quite a few First Officers from various training organisations. I personally see a huge difference in the standards between different places. Without doubt there is quite a difference in what I would consider the top two(who shall remain nameless in case of bias but are very well known) and places like this. Sure you will pass the course but the quality of where a person trained becomes very clear when flying on the line. I believe it used to be a reasonably priced place to train but has increased in recent years and for this reason I would be pushed to recommend it. It is effectively a very expensive modular course but it all comes down to affordability. As with anything in life you pay for what you get.

Just my two cents worth. These are life changing decisions. Make them for yourself and try to push the marketing spin aside.

[davey147]

Shamrock,

Im not trying to bash anyone, i'm just wanting help from people who have been to PTC. I wasnt making anything up about the 98% placement rate, this is an exact quote from the document they have sent me:-

"Jobs: 98% of PTC graduates are in employment with an international airline
within 2 months or graduating"

So as you see from the statement above, I am getting my facts right, as usual :)

This is an extremely good thing to offer, something so great, they wont talk to me about it.

I was simply asking the question to current or past students who have attended this college, whether they have seen the majority of students get jobs with international airlines, within 2 months of graduating.

[diarmuid8]

I'm supposed to be starting (i.e going to Florida to start the PPL) at the end of April and to be honest I'm scared sh*tless.
I mean at the moment I dont see much employement ops out there. Aer Arann aren't recruiting FOs at this time, Aer Lingus are but I'm not sure of the chance of even getting an interview with a fATPL, 250TT & no TR. Anybody know about the prospects in the UK, not necessarly easy or BMI but the small operators??
Ryanair are always recruiting sure however, after reading the posts on this site about the airline I don't think I would consider them and more to the point I couldn't afford another €40k+.
It's scary really scary to think about being screwed by Ryanair or not getting a job offer once finnished with PTC.
I know it's supposed to be scary but I'm considering saying, "no I'm fine thanks", and going to do something else at this stage.

Any advice, appreciated.

[pipergirl]

Well, there is a lot of recruitment happening at the moment and almost all the airlines are recruiting...so I don't agree that the outlook is bleak at all.

You see, this is the choice you have when you embark on this career. It may well not work out for you and it may be highly successful for you. But it is like anything in life really, there is a chance of failure or success.

It's really up to you at the end of the day and go with your gut.

Best of luck whichever path you choose.

[dave_69]

My only advice about PTC is watch your bills.And ignore the adverts!!! Been there, good quality training but to be honest pricing is rediclous and on the increase. And no ptc havent gotten these guys into airlines.. (or the fellows i know at least) made their contacts through Parc aviation MCC course. Granted they did attend PTC before hand. Good luck with your training Diarmuid :ok:

[itsbrokenagain]

From previous professional (no I didnt work there) relations with this school... stay a long way away. This school is the devil compared to some of the now closed JAA FTO's that once existed in Florida. If you want to train with a legit Fto, try one of the bigger UK schools, they have real schools in the USA they either own or work with closely, and have real training programs, without empty fake marketing gimmick promises of an airline job. ANY school that offers a airline job at the end of a course is full of BS !

NO flight school can ascertain the requirements, or guarantee of a job at an airline regarding a person when you first walk in the door, no school can legitimately come up with marketing hype like a 98% placement rate, ITS NOT TRUE -IT CANNOT BE TRUE, and even if it was true, its wasnt the school that got those people their jobs, it was the applicant!

Also really if you think this was a true, normal everyday thing, (98% of graduates getting hired) dont you think that the real or big FTO's would be ramming it down your throat in their marketing??????????


But thats my 2 cents worth.

[phillpot]

Evening all,

Due to start cpl me/ir in July and I thought I had my school sorted however have stumbled across PTC and quite like the sound of them, they are little more expensive than I had planned for and I notice landing fees arent included, before I fly over there and have a look I was wondering if anyone could give me the heads up.
cheers all.

[Platinum206]

phillpot,

quite strange actually, I could have posted the exact same comment. Planning to start my CPL/ ME-IR about the same time in PTC. I also had my school sorted out in the UK (where I am currently doing the ATPL theory exams)

I discovered PTC and decided to have a look while I was home in Dublin over Easter.

The guys there seems quite professional, friendly etc. As I have not actually done any flying with them I really cannot comment properly, but first impressions seemed good to me.:ok:

P206

[wire12]

I am starting my ppl i only have two hours flying. coud you tell me is the flying test at the end of the ppl hard

[davey147]

of course its hard, they arn't going to give you a license for nothing.

[octas]

guys, they turn out the goods and get them jobs

[Zyox]

PTC estimates seems to usually be on the bare minimum of hours to do something. Eg. "5 hours to get such and such" is usually the best case scenario, where it usually takes 8-10. My guess is this is where the overshoot in pricing will come from, it all adds up.

Also it looks like maybe the price or the exams and tests aren't included there? Sitting the ATPLs is 1500eur approx and each flight test is around 500eur.

[keato1]

does anybody have any comments to make about weston?
how about in comparison to PTC?

[OutLoud767]

Anyone here taken out a an AIB loan for PTC? How is the flexibility of the loan?

[Ballista]

has anyone conducted the interview/aptitude tests in waterford lately??? just want to know what its like. cheers:ooh:

[OutLoud767]

When I toured PTC quiet a few months ago, they seemed very eager for me to start flying. Every time I talked about pricing and hidden costs they would quickly change the subject to ''unlimited oppurtunities''.

Although I am impressed with their employment statistics......theres always somethin fishy about them. Like there holding something back.

Everytime I critisized the pricing they would always jump to ''But we'll have you flying for Aer Lingus at the age of 19''. Tempting, but I made the right decision to leave.

Also had a bad experience with Atlantic air based in Cork. There school was in a little portable cabin and the professionalism was ridicalous. It was about this time last year I had a lesson booked with them one afternoon but got a phone call which went exactly as following '' Hello Ian, listen I got bad news. Were having trouble with Delta x-ray, its engine is bust so were cancelling all lessons today'' I was not expecting it and looked up into the sky with dissapointment when I suddenly notcied Delta x-ray flying around!!! So I replied ''oh really? because I see the f###ing thing flying around now!!!'' None the less he's reaction was priceless and I never associated witht the school again. Only had 12 hours logged towards PPL, thank god I didnt give them anymore than that.


So basically there the 2 main flying schools in ireland, and in my opinion I would stay away from both. I am now looking into flight schools in US/canada. Better off to be honest with you

[Yahweh]

You can't beat the Irish for ripping people off. The joys of the 'Celtic Tiger' :} :} :}

[Grouncela]

I have had the experience of dealing with a couple of schools in the past. PTC being one and Pilot Recruitment International being the other. I started my training with PTC as I was impressed with their facilities and ultimately their marketing (I know....I shouldn't take any schools marketing skills as the whole truth). As a lot of other people have said, there was just something not right with that place for me. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but it was just a feeing I had. All the staff were actually pretty nice and treated you well. Some of the instructors could be a right pain though. Some were very arrogant.

I ended up leaving PTC as I wasn't getting much flying due to the weather (this was before their partnership with FSI). I went to train in Canada with PRI, who had a completely different set up altogether. I met with the directors before going over to Canada and they seemed to be on the ball. I ended up going to Canada with about 6 others and we were the first class from Ireland. The reason for my choice was that everything was included in the price. Return flights, all transport, accomadation and food. And it was a cheap course. This course was offering 0hrs to atpl (and even though I had some experience, I decided to go for it). Now as this was a new business, there were some glitches along the way. But once these were sorted out, the course turned out really well. All of the students were treated like part of the PRI family. We had a say in how the company was run. We felt like we were really being looked after. We were given our choice of apartment or staying in a house belonging to the company. We were given the use of a car 24/7. We had meals twice a day in the army base at the airport and we were also given a weekly cash allowance with which to buy groceries for the apartment.

The training itself in Canada was fantastic. The instructors were really good and had a lot of time for the students. Even if we were struggling with a subject in ground school, the would come to the apartment at any time and give you a couple of hours extra time and this was at no extra cost. These guys were paid fck all money, but the genuinely wanted you to do well. On the downside, at the time there probably were not enough planes to cope with all of the students (the Irish weren't the only ones there), but I believe this has now been rectified. As far as Im aware they have aquired a further 2 planes, which would be more than enough.

Im still in contact with some of the lads over there and they all still seem to be really enjoying it.

Just thought I'd share my experiences with you. Hope it helps

[Marvin The Android]

Okay ive read this whole thread about 3 times through now & am still a little unclear.

What I really want to know is - After completing the PTC course, the one which takes you from 0-CPL, how difficult will it be for me to get a job?

Would graduating from PTC give me a fair chance for finding a job??

I have a physics degree and am aged 21 so if anything that should help.

Any advice from anyone who is on the course or preferably have finished the course would be great.

Or any other pilots that have learnt alot about PTC directly or from there friends , id love to hear from.

Is PTC alot worse than places like CTC or Oxford?

Thanks for peoples time

Marv ;)

[bri1980]

Have you visited these establishments?

Why not try to to visit, talk to other students and instructors, see what they think. Form pictures of these places.

Why is Waterford necessarily 'worse' than CTC or Oxford?

CTC is a great deal on the money front if you can get in-saves you the need for a big loan. Training is airline focused, but so is Waterford.

Oxford is a well-respected name with airline focused training, and will give you a chance at a job, but so will Waterford.

Don't be taken in by slogans like 'where you train will make a difference' etc. because although it might give you a little edge with some airlines, it's certainly not the be-all and end-all. Most airlines won't care that much where you train.

In all, CTC is your best chance of employment whilst simultaneously avoiding a large debt. After that it's a dog-eat-dog world with training organisations like Oxford, Waterford, Stapleford etc climbing all over themselves to relieve you of £50-70k-hence the cathcy slogans!


B

[Savage_UK]

Hi all

I'm hoping to convert a New Zealand CPL and MEIR to a JAA licence at the beginning of 2008 and have been looking up various options at where/how to do this. One of the popular responses is PTC in Waterford.

http://www.pilottraining.ie

Have had a chat with them and they seem good to deal with and the prices are not too unrealistic either (I say that comparing it only to UK prices).

Anybody have any direct experience with them and the claims of 98% success in employment straight after graduating? Or indeed if there are other (better) options out there for someone with a new CPL. Also would appreciate opinions of just how manageable the ATPL subjects in 2 x 3-month modules are?

Will have just over 300hrs in total single/50 multi on my return so hoping the flying training requirement won't be overly difficult to achieve.

Thanks in advance

[november.sierra]

check your PM!!

[danfield1973]

Hi all, I am looking into training myself (purely preliminary) and trying to work out if i can afford it etc, it all sounds very expensive but worth it. I've seen various costs on websites but nothing really concrete, can anyone please advise with no previous experience what it might cost to learn and pass all the relevant exams for commercial flying? I'm 33 y/o so in a way starting my career again so giving myself a year to save more cash and plan everything. I live in Edinburgh but from the sounds of it i might have to learn somewhere else unless anyone knows of a good school in Scotland? Do you need any other types of qualifications e.g Uni/College Degree?
If there are any other students/pilots who started a little older do you have any advice? Am i too late to start becoming a pilot? How long would it take, preferrably before i hit retirement age!
I've been checking out websites but these tend to be limited so i thought the best way was to ask other students/pilots for advice. I have so far came across Moncton Flight College in Canada, Flight Safety Academy in Florida and Pilot Training College in Ireland which all appear good to me from what i have read, if you have any comments on these please let me know? it woudl ideally be best to visit these schools but would cost an awful lot of cash, better spent on actual learning.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated?
Thanks in advance
Dan

[dand07]

In a nutshell i went to ptc for an introductory course and they were basically saying that i would find it difficult and discouraged me and there price is bout 80 thousand euros! and u are distance learning for the atpls------------i since went to bournemouth flight training college a.k.a. bcft and im doing the jetline course there which is basically zero to hero under full instruction in 52 weeks.(six months of full time tuition for atpls) Doing my ppl there at the moment and the instructors are absolutely fantastic so far.They also have really good aircraft and its busy airspace so u will have great experience with atc and various weather conditions -----------if u look up bcft on this u will struggle to find a bad comment--------------would highly recommend them:D

[dand07]

no catchy slogans at bcft and there not 50 to 70 k and they have full tuition throughout there zero to hero jetline course!

[jonah07]

Mike edgeworth thinks the be all and end all of good flight experience exists at waterford airport?And that they one of few schools to offer one on one tuition in the air-----nearly every half decent school offers that seriously try coventry or bournemouth thats were proper training with proper structured costs and also offers great experience with atc and has top class instructors ---------The pricing at ptc is a joke and the atpls are "distance learning"------what are you paying all that money for? Ha joke

[souths]

Hi everyone :-)

I did some flying in kerry when i was younger and loved it so much but then I went off and did a degree in computer science and I had to take a break from flying.

I'm 27 now and have been working in IT for the last 5 years but I still dream about being a Pilot but I'm a little scared about giving up what i've worked hard to achieve.

Its gone 1am and I'm wrecked from reading the 8 pages of comments about PTC etc.... but I still dont know what to believe.

I would like to train somewhere that is not too expensive and includes accomodation if possible.

Is there anyone out there like me?

What are the best places in the UK?

[bobster1]

Hi there Souths, would that be Farranfore then, I used to fly into there in Munster Joinerys Citation Jet (as a passenger) and lived in Killarney..you are a tad limited for choice of flight schools in that neck of the woods.
I dont envy your position at all, its a mine field when it comes to finding a flight school.

Best advice I could offer is to try and get copies of a newspaper called FTN (Flight Training News) this usually contains lists of flight schools in Ireland and UK, and also buy Pilot or Todays Pilot magazine, available from the newsagents opposite the little Tesco in Killarney, again it contains adverts for flight training.

Draw up a list of ones that interest you and try and visit them places so you can speak to current students and see what the set up is like, and if you feel comfortable with the place and instructors.
Not many places include accomodation and if they do, chances are you will find cheaper places to stay than what the school are charging.

It all also depends on your budget, and if you can commit full time to training,
there are 2 options the Modular route where you can do the training full time or in stages and take breaks after each module to go back to work if needs be, or Integrated route full time course, a search on here will explain more about this, again a search on here will give advice on the schools you may shortlist.
There is an exhibition coming up soon at Heathrow,
http://www.flyer.co.uk/exhibitions/London/index.php
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Bobster1

[wire12]

If you want to talk to students from PTC you can go onto their bebo page on http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4411928033 it has past and current students.

[souths]

Hi Bobster1

Yes it was Farranfore that I flew from and its really beautiful down there.
I used to love to fly over the lakes and out to sea was so smooth. :)

At the time there was no good school in Ireland and I wasn't ready to move away so I was excited when I heard about PTC in waterford and my mind started racing again.

actually i have an important question. Is it ok to have laser eye treatment??

Souths

[bobster1]

Heres the link to the CAA website, with regards
to laser surgery, its a PDF file
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED-JARClass1InitialVisStds[2189].pdf
Looks like it should not stand in your way.:ok:

[helen_r_browne]

Hey,

Doing my skills assesement in a few weeks and wondering does anybody have any advice or info on what to study to help me? thanks

[jonah07]

The ptc assessment is an absolute overpriced waste of time and is so far off basing weather u are going to be good enough to become a pilot. Do your training in the u.k. you will get the best experience and instruction there-----------I mean asking you to trim an aircraft on your first flight and that load of bull on the computer----------300 euro!!!!!!!!!! They are a bunch of conartists--------there is an enough treads on this "pilot training college of ireland" to back the claim of no smoke without fire ----------however i dont need any threads to make my mind up --I saw it for myself--------------DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON P.T.C. ----------------p.s. distance learning for atpls aswell dont forget and no mcc i think (what are you paying 80 grand for!)

[jonah07]

Try bournemouth or oxford

[flyasthesky]

85,000k for the course, distance atpl's and no mcc as well. It is quite expensive however I think people should make their own opinion on ptc. I don't think its for me though.

[jonah07]

Their idiots i was there and they told me i wasnt good enough ------------------Im now on the flight deck -ha how wrong were they?------------Go bournemouth commercial flight training-------------Their excellent or else oxford and also bristol is very good too

[ChillyDogg]

I you read what jonah07 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=199769) said earlier on this page it might put you off PTC. I am not familiar witht the BCFT but I'll give you my horror story about CTC, another respected FTO. PTC charge £30 more than CTC and this involves a debriefing and an actual flight to see how you are in the air. At CTC they take your money with a sneaky smile, you do the test, if you pass (phase 2) u have another 3 stages to go through to get onto the course and if you fail they send you an email and dont bother to give you ANY feedback. My mate badgered them for feedback and 3 weeks later she got some by email but it wasn't really worth waiting for! Sure New Zealand looks great and im sure if you get onto the course you'll be very happy with it but to say PTC are bad is just dishonest... what other FTO has the statistic that 98% of its graduates get a job within 2 months of completing their training? none. u cant argue with that!

[davey147]

other FTO has the statistic that 98% of its graduates get a job within 2 months of completing their training

If you believe that, then more fool you!

[fullrich]

Whatever about the 98% figure one has to admit that the statistic is pretty high in reality. I dont know of anyone that went through there that is now unemployed, within a few months of course. I stand to be corrected.I would recommend doing the ppl elsewhere and then go to PTC. No need for an assesment at that stage I reckon and alot more than 300 euro saved.

[420 HB]

chilli dog and full rich, i know of at least two graduates that even after two years have not gained employment and both were first time pass on their IR.
A number of students did gain "employment" with FR but that came from doing an MCC with Parc. PTC will NOT gain you a job in the aviation market, it comes down to your own skills, personality and a big dose of luck. Once my friend left there, he received no assistance or correspondence from any one at PTC regarding job hunting. Dont waste your money

[ChillyDogg]

Hi 420 HB,Are you able to put me in touch with those guys you know that trained with PTC? It'd be a great help if i could speak to someone that had first hand experience with PTC. I am especially interested because I got onto their course recently and should be starting in the new year. If that statistic is false how are they legally able to claim it? Would you advise training somewhere else and then go to Parc Aviation for the MCC? (since they seem to have the good ties with airlines?). When I did the assessment at waterford i asked them what the instructor/pupil ratio was also and they said 2:1. At this moent in time I have no real concrete reason to doubt anything they say since I havent spoken with anyone that has first hand experience. I am not doubting what you say, its just that I need to research this further.Cheers, Chillydogg.

[helen_r_browne]

hey just wondering would you be able to give me any tips or ideas of waht this assesement day actually invilves im aware flight and computer test but any further info id appreciate
cheers

[drag king]

PTC's assetment is a pure JOKE administrated by pilot, verdict given by beancounters and marketing staff. I wouldn't even bother, even my grandmà would be admited.

The only box you really need to tick is the last question: "...can you afford to fork out 75k+ euros.

Another Irish joke in the purest FR style...:E

DK ;)

[ChillyDogg]

Hi,

The PTC assessment involves a c. 2 hour computer based COMPASS test- similar to that of Oxford Aviation and Cabair's Bournemouth facility. You can find out the contents of this online by searching for the COMPASS test. It is prety straight forward stuff involving basic Maths, multi-tasking and coordination tests. After this you have a flight of between 30mins to an hour to see how you react to instruction and if you are comfortable in the aircraft. All together it is a stressful occasion but the flying's great fun! Hope you dont have to wait about for 3.5 hours between your flight and COMPASS test like I had to!- nerve racking! Just get a good nights sleep and a breakfast before you go and you'll do just fine! It's nothing to worry about but you do need to be on the ball. After this if you meet the requirements you will be taken aside to speak about the possibility of you joining the course and that talk for me lasted about 40 mins since I had a lot of questions to ask. you'll be informed of the next steps then if you wish to pursue it further. Just go and enjoy it!:)

Hope this is a more constructive post than most on here! :ugh:

[pipergirl]

My only advice to anyone thinking of attending PTC is just to talk to former students, especially those that attended in the last 3 months.
Be wary of any school that has heavy marketing...those fancy marketing campaigns/websites need to be funded somehow!

Good instruction is what you need at the end of the day.

In my opinion, there is no need to pay any flight school for an aptitude test etc..it is a marketing tool pure and simple.

[drag king]

All together it is a stressful occasion but the flying's great fun!

Do ya think so, pal? You better get ready for an airline interview/screening though! Bring a family-pack box of Nurofen...:E

After this if you meet the requirements you will be taken aside to speak about the possibility of you joining the course and that talk for me lasted about 40 mins since I had a lot of questions to ask. you'll be informed of the next steps then if you wish to pursue it further.

As I said, if you can tick the "last" box...welcome on board...:E

Hope this is a more constructive post than most on here!

Nop, but the following one surely is:

My only advice to anyone thinking of attending PTC is just to talk to former students, especially those that attended in the last 3 months.


In my opinion, there is no need to pay any flight school for an aptitude test etc..it is a marketing tool pure and simple.

Smart girl, have you got a boyfriend my dear...? :E

Regards

DK ;)

[Captain Planet]

DK said

PTC's assetment is a pure JOKE administrated by pilot, verdict given by beancounters and marketing staff. I wouldn't even bother, even my grandmà would be admited.

The only box you really need to tick is the last question: "...can you afford to fork out 75k+ euros.

Another Irish joke in the purest FR style...:E

DK ;)


Dk,I couldn't agree more with you.The fact of the matter is that less than 10% of the guys who actually go through the assessment process sign up for the program.Easy money for them and squeezing us even tighter.(€295 Altogether incl flight) 140 quid for sitting in front of a computer for 2 hours,you must be having a laugh!!!Most people are paid to do that!!!!


And it's €85k now,inlfation my a**e

CP out.

[MarkColeman]

Captain planet,

Im curious as to what your source is re: <10% of people who do the ptc assessment end up on the course?

[ChillyDogg]

Isn't PTC's €85k, c. £60k the going rate for these training courses?- (c. £63k after the MCC addon). I know Cabair's is about £58k but not including accommodation, Oxford is over £60k as are FTE and CTC. If I can get the qualifications at a cheaper place should I? Does it really matter where you train? I'm worried you see because I've so far been to 2 assessment days (CTC and PTC) each costing about £200 before travel and accommodation. I know it's a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of the course itself but I haven't got that much money to chuck about applying to different places- so where should I go next? It would be great if we lived in a world where companies did not rip off people pursuing their dreams but we don't!

Cheers guys and gals :)

[DeA320]

Hey Chillie,

Check your PM's.

DeA320

[CaptainKC]

Hi Guys

I'm looking very closely at various threads on forums and speaking to guys who have already been through the process of dropping 70/80k on training. I have been advised to do the CPL Multi in the US and then look to where to do the Multi IR, PTC will get you there and good on the CV, Stapleford is interesting as they have full time IR instructors and on the field accomadation, its PTC or the UK for the Multi IR for me any input would be appreciated.

Anyone know of good bad things about Ormund beach in Florida???????

Thanks:confused:

[MarkColeman]

Ok captain planet, is it safe to assume you dont have any kind of credible source for your statistic about less than 10% of people who sit ptc's evaluation decide to do their course?

Someone pulling something outta their arse on pprune?? never!! :eek:

[macflea]

hi everybody,
have ptc waterford got the new simulator yet for the instrument rating course, i asked them about it at flyer event in dublin and they said they would have at start of november. how do people find the instrument rating course , is it good or should i consider other options? any opinions appreciated.
cheers macflea

[pipergirl]

Isn't PTC's €85k, c. £60k the going rate for these training courses?-

Yes, it is...but to be sent to the US for a FAA PPL as part of the course, that is a pretty pricey course!

As a matter of interest, has anyone the latest break down of this €85k?

MacFlea-

I was in touch with PTC regarding the ME/IR last year and thought the price quoted was extremely high. Didn't think any more of it and then received a phone call following up on my initial query.
I told the girl on the phone I thought the course was over-priced, so I asked them if they had a sim, and if I could do hours on the sim to bring the cost down. To say that I had the head bitten off me was an understatement. I was given this rehearsed schpeel from this girl, who I found quite agressive (I would like to point out, that it wasn't Siobhan-I spoke with Siobhan a few times previously and found her very friendly) that airlines don't want to see 1 hour of FNPT2 in you logbook and that sim hours towards the IR were a huge no-no.

Well, I was very taken aback by the tone and was surprised at this statement that the airlines don't like FNPT2 hours etc...especially confusing when I thought of a number of my friends who had just gotten airline jobs with FNPT2 time logged towards the IR. Also, I worked at the time in pilot recruitment and was aware that this was not the case.

I did my IR and about 4 months later I got a phonecall from PTC asking if I would be interested in the IR course and that they were getting a brand new spanking FNPT2. So, if they-sorry, the airlines- were so against it, why bring one in?!?!

On another note-
i went to the flyer show in Dublin and was amazed at how strong the PTC marketing was. Especially with all of the girls they had dressed up as pilots.
Unbelievable.

Smart girl, have you got a boyfriend my dear...?


Mind yer nose:p

[DeA320]

Macflea,

I can confirm that the Sim is up and running in PTC at the moment. I've used it myself.

Pipergirl - As far as I know the only difference in the course for the increase in price is that you will not come back from the US with less than 170 hours. The rest is the same again as far as I know.

DeA320

[pipergirl]

you will not come back from the US with less than 170 hours.

For a school to be sending you to the US for that many hours, which is quite a bulk, why pay €85k?

Surely, it is be cheaper to do a PPL with hour building yourself and then head to PTC to do the CPL ME IR?!?
Why pay them large sums of money to send you to the US, when you could do that yourself for a fraction of what they are charging?

Just seems ludicrous!

most of the girls you refer to are pilots. With the exception of the persons mentioned above in your post.

LOL:}

[Captain Planet]

MarkColeman said


Ok captain planet, is it safe to assume you dont have any kind of credible source for your statistic about less than 10% of people who sit ptc's evaluation decide to do their course?

Someone pulling something outta their arse on pprune?? never!! :eek:


Well my excuse would be to say it was an educated guess:ok::ok:

To be honest I wouldn't say I'm too far off the mark, if 40% of guys that did the assessment signed up that would be quite alot!!

CP.

[ChillyDogg]

Hey Pipergirl,

I recently priced up two options for me:
1st- doing PTCs course costing after all other costs about £67k
2nd- going to do my training (P/C/I/ME) with FSA in Florida and then convert back to JAA with PTC costing me with all other costs I could think of around £51k
-both prices above include all expenses I can see as well as the MCC at Parc.
:hmm:
bet you can guess which one I'm favouring atm! ;)

Would you think that is a reasonable price or should I look for an even cheaper way?

ChillyDogg

[Night_fr8]

To All future Pilots
If you go cheap don't expect an easy ride to get a job.
The majority of Chief Pilots favour the integrated route, where all the studies, flying, testing and MCC have been at one CAA approved training establishment.

Modular is on its way out, the UK CAA is about to change its rules on modular training I am told.

Bite the bullet on cost now it will pay dividends in the future.

The choices of training schools are increasing, research carefully and enter the one best suited to you.

Good Luck to you ALL

From an old .... about to consider retiring.

[pipergirl]

Wouldn't be an advocate of doing things on the cheap generally, but if PTC are charging you-from Chillydog's calculations an extra £16,000..that is a huge sum of money.
Generally, flight training on the super cheap is not advised nor is paying through the nose for training. I think a school like PTC, in my opinion are being rather cheeky charging such extortionate prices, especially with what they are offering. And to charge people for this "assessment"-i think it is a money making racket. Anyone who is foolish enough to do it, has more money than sense.

Again, with any school-
talk to very recent pupils and make sure they give good instruction.
You don't want flight training on the mega cheap nor too expensive..just reasonable.

[MarkColeman]

Well my excuse would be to say it was an educated guess:ok::ok:

To be honest I wouldn't say I'm too far off the mark, if 40% of guys that did the assessment signed up that would be quite alot!!

CP.

Educated guess? but you used the term 'the fact of the matter is'. Surely you can see a huge differance between less than 10% and 40%.

The fact of the matter is you dont have a clue what youre talking about my friend. Goes to show anyone considering PTC - check them out for yourselves, talk to actual PTC students and make your own mind up. Take this thread with large pinch of salt.

[Night_fr8]

Paying for an assesment
Well why should it be done free of charge ?
The Compass tests are from a company that has specialised in this field and as a third party user the training establishments have to pay for their use.
Simulator or aircraft ride.
Sims or FNPT2 trainers are cheaper to operate than aircraft but still cost money to operate, i.e. Electricy, Maintainance etc.
Aircraft cost speak for themselves.
Plus the time for the assessors, the person debriefing and all the admin to arrange the assessments, changes etc.
You don't get ow't for now't, not in these times.
If you chose a high cost career expect to pay, unless you get Her Majesty to do the training.

[Captain Planet]

Mr Coleman, I'll have you know that I am quite well informed about PTC, and by the way my last post was made as a joke.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion,I have mine and you have yours, end of discussion.

CP.

[MarkColeman]

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinions, but people should not state their opinions as 'fact' when it is quite clearly made up garbage.

Like you say, i also have my opinions about PTC, and as a current student at PTC, i have a feeling my opinions are alot more accurate than yours are.

I'm not saying PTC are perfect, theyre not, but some of the rubbish ive seen written on this thread about them is laughable.

[kpd]

To Night fr8


To All future Pilots
If you go cheap don't expect an easy ride to get a job.
The majority of Chief Pilots favour the integrated route, where all the studies, flying, testing and MCC have been at one CAA approved training establishment.

Modular is on its way out, the UK CAA is about to change its rules on modular training I am told

Can you enlighten us further?? If all modular is to go makes any integrated course more attractive!!

[Night_fr8]

I cannot be certain (100%) that modular is on its way out soon, but with the introduction of the new MPL this route will no longer be available.
I am not privy to the CAA plans but do know what most recruiters prefer, and give preference to, for low hours pilots, and that is the integrated route.

If you want to give yourself the best chance go Integrated.
If you must go Modular then do all your training at the same training establishment, on a scheme similar to the "Waypoint" program.

[kpd]

Many thanks for explaining that. What is MPL -presume a licence? Too short for PPrune Search and google says it is Mozilla public licence!

[Night_fr8]

MPL
Multi Crew Pilots Licence which will start to come into effect next year phased introduction.
Will include a type rating, as part of the licence
Only be available via a route similar to integrated.

I am not pushing the integrated route as many schools are expensive, but you only get the services that you pay for.

MCC and JOT are not always included

MCC = Multi crew co-operation.
JOT = Jet orientation course.

As a current airline Captain I would recommend the Latter as an add on for all students.
Preferable following the MCC course so that the training is continuous.
Look for a school that offers both, possibly as a package.

[BG101]

Hello all,

Has anyone used PTC to do there ATP exams via distance learning?
What was the material, pre-exam ground school, online support etc.like? Any recommendations or otherwise?

Thanks in advance,

B.:}

[wayupthere]

Has anyone used PTC to do there ATP exams via distance learning?
What was the material, pre-exam ground school, online support etc.like? Any recommendations or otherwise?
you will be working on your own, the help is minimal at best, groundschool is a waste of time

[Captain Planet]

Completely agree with wayupthere

But unfortunatley that's the way distance learning is I'm afraid.

CP.

[Zyox]

Yup, I'll back that up.

Get the books off them, sign up for bristol questions, and it's up to you to do the work for yourself. Ground school consolidation thing is slightly helpful but nothing special. Just a chance to try and get some questions answered that had you stumped, albeit a little too close to the actual exams for comfort.

[BG101]

Thanks guys for your replies... duly noted!

BG101

[Zaffaran]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking for information about the AIB Loan provided to potential future pilots who train with PTC, and would appreciate it greatly if anyone with any information can post a reply to my queries.

Basically I would be looking for 100% course funding and I am trying to find out what security is normally required on the funding.

Also I understand that the course is €85,000. I realise that there is a strong likelihood of overrunning this sum and extra funding is likely to be required for extra training. Can anyone guestimate as to how much this extra funding usually runs to?

Finally what are the terms of the loan and does anyone have figures on the percentage of students that take out the loan in order to fund their training.

Thanks for you anticipated help.

Zaffaran

[wayupthere]

Stay away from them both. Nothing but trouble

[Zaffaran]

Thanks Guys. Some sobering thoughts there. However if it is something that you can see yourself spending the rest of your life at, then to me €170,000 euro is obviously a very sizeable but worthwhile investment in your future(even at 27 - I nearly started crying- It was the first time I've actually felt old ! LOL). FO's and Captains seem to be well rewarded for their expertise, endevours and sacrafices, so paying off €170,000 over 7 or so years doesn't seem impossible. I know that alot of people say that there are cheaper ways of getting your licence, but for me the most organised and thorough course available at the moment seems to be the one being run by PTC. This may be down to an unorganised approach to my research,and if so I apologise but I have researched all avenues known to me. If there are other schools out there that I don't know of which basically take all the organisation out of the Pilot Training Course and as a result let you focus on your course modules in order to obtain your licence in a quick and efficient manner I would greatly appreciate it if you could let me know of them so as I can research them myself. Finally am I being unreasonable in my assumptions, as I would have thought that even at my age there are people out there who have completed their pilot training through getting full funding from a financial organisation and haven't found repaying the sum too stressful an ordeal.

[I_love_to_fly00]

Hi,

PTC are money grabbers, they took thousands off a friend of mine and for WHAT? my friend didnt even get much flying or instruction from them. This person went somewhere else abroad and is recieving proper tuition, structure and flying! PTC give bad groundschool, there instructors attitudes stink they do not care about the students. From people i have spoken with who have been with this company i have heard when you do speak up about any problems regarding your account, bookings, instructors etc you are basically warned to shut up and put up or your training will be terminated. I believe ptc are bullies, and only care about money. Its disgraceful, i am so angry and digusted that they get away with this. I am a pilot myself, and the stories i have heard and seen on here have disgusted me, there are only a handful of good things being said about ptc on here, i have never seen so many bad stories about one company in all the time ive been on this site, it has taken me 2 hours to get through everything, that just tells you something about them.

Stay away from them, look at schools in britain and the us, airlines want quality people from good schools not mickey mouse schools like ptc, the quality coming from ptc is by no means excellent maybe a few exceptionally good people but nothing more. And believe me i know, i am in the world of aviation and i see and hear a lot!

[fadge]

€170,000!!!! Have you gone mad! sorry but where are you getting this figure from? if anybody is even remotely considering or suggesting this figure for pilot training (modular or integrated) then they need their head examined. knock off at least €70,000 and then you and coming to a more reasonably figure

[Zaffaran]

€170,000 is the full amount repaid over the 7year term loan. i.e Drawdowns + Interest Repayments and other related charges. Sorry for the confusion.

[MarkColeman]

I_Love_to_fly_00

Can you give us more details of what happened to your friend? Im a student at ptc and would be interested to hear about it. Ive seen a couple of people fail so far and end up dropping out of the course, but these people just werent up to scratch in either flying or exams. Maybe your friend just didnt have the ability?

Also ive spoken to ptc staff about my account a couple of times, and i wasnt warned to shut up, or anything like that, the issues were always dealt with satisfactorally.

Please, more details!! pm me if you dont want it on the main board.

[pilotbear]

All you pathetic failures just love to blame everyone else don't you, cannot accept responsibility for your inadequate attitude, personality and ability.

It is very easy to post make-believe 'facts' when you are anonymous and work for the other less prestigious schools.
(ask Stapleford about their less than impressive IR '1st time' pass rate, and that does not include partials)

If all your experiences are so true Jonah07 tell us who you are and the flightdeck you are now on:ugh: probably a C172 (microsoft)

No one at PTC bullies anyone! Yes it is hard work. It is up to the student to put the work and dedication in to pass this course, the standards are very high, including in house tests before you are allowed to go for IAA tests.

It never fails to amaze me at the number of people who want something for nothing...if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

[macflea]

hi guys

as a student who went the modular route and was at both ptc and stapleford , i never had any problems with either school. pricewise there isnt much difference between them for aircraft hire except for the ground schools fees at ptc but then again i spent this travelling between uk and ireland with ryanair. i chose to do my ppl and hourbuilding in nz and usa ,with research its so easy to organise yourself .every school has pros and cons , thats the joy of modular you can choose where you train. what really annoys me is the irish weather dont get me going,and i am from cork, boy.

cheers macflea

[maxpower1770]

PTC is a joke , they are just a highly traind team of sales people . I would not have a good word to say about the place the sooner the better they go to the wall Just look at the facts :mad: all of the students are passing the exams , they only have 1 twin for the amount of students , I have to hand it to PTC they got there sales pitch down to a tee . As the great Mr bush once said fool me once shame on you , fool me twice i wont get fooled again . Happy Crimbo PTC :ok:

[jlpilot]

Hi everybody!!

Has anyone knows something about the Instructor Career Program by PTC? They say that all the pilots that successfully complete the course, will get a job with them or one of their affiliates. Is it true???

Thanks a lot!!

[deltaxray]

I think that instructor programme just started this year. "They say" that after you have completed it your gauranteed a bonded position with them for 2 years and after that they'll set up an interview for you with aer arann. Does anyone have experience in doing the course???

[Captain Planet]

How would anyone have any experience doing this course if it has just started this year?:hmm:

CP.

[drag king]

How would anyone have any experience doing this course if it has just started this year?

DID THEY? With WHAT authorization from WHICH Aviation Authority? :E

PTC is a joke , they are just a highly traind team of sales people

Bang on spot, mate. What prize do you want?

Believe it or not there are greener pastures than Ireland!

DK ;)

[deltaxray]

Well captain planet.......if u would have excused my grammer, what i ment was.."IS THERE ANYONE DOING IT WHO COULD GIVE ME SOME INFORMATION ABOUT IT":ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ChillyDogg]

DK -> the Irish Aviation Authority... And also btw the main 0 hours to ATPLf course has been going only 16 months or there abouts.

[Captain Planet]

No DeltaXray, it wasn't grammar, you were just plain wrong mon frére!!!:}

CP.

[deltaxray]

Lets take it outside on the ramp now :}

[drag king]

DK -> the Irish Aviation Authority... And also btw the main 0 hours to ATPLf course has been going only 16 months or there abouts.My dear son...you have to CHILL OUT a bit. :p

I know PTC a "bit" better than you and I know the courses they CAN run and those they CANNOT. The Airline Program is well known (BTW, it's called fATPL, not ATPLf...:E) but my doubts are towards the so-called Career-FI program and the almost-all-twintime CPL which has not lifted of the ground yet. The only thing that lifted of seems to be the bill.

Keep me updated if you wish but I think I am watching things closer than you.

DK ;)

[deltaxray]

I think you said it all dragking.

[nosefirsteverytime]

Soooo basically PTC stinks to the high heavens, and there are cheaper options then?

If I'm Irish, and want to keep ties with the family (I.E. be within driving distance from them) what are my alternatives?

[Zyox]

Atlantic in Cork?

[Platinum206]

Soooo basically PTC stinks to the high heavens

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved here but........

No, from my experience, it certainly does not stink to the high heavens.

I really don't want to get into the argument of why or why not but simply to give my two cents that they are not as bad as people are making out. Its very easy to give out about something the whole time, I would just like to stick my hand up and say I'm standing on the other side of the fence.

Also, there seems to be a whole lot of attitude on this discussion. As someone else mentioned, can't we all play nicely!!!!

Also;

PTC is a joke , they are just a highly traind team of sales people

I think this is extremely unfair. The instructors are not sales people. And they are excellent. I have flown with over a dozen instructors at various different FTO's in different parts of the world, as such have somewhat of a frame of reference.

almost-all-twintime CPL which has not lifted of the ground yet

Hardly almost all twin. The CPL course, which has been operating for at least six months is 15hrs Single, 10hrs multi, at minimums granted, but attainable.

[TheMacAttack]

This has now gone up from €75k to €85k

[schoolkid]

I've just seen a poster on another forum describe how one of the speakers at the PTC stand at the Dublin FAS exhibition stated... FR are better to work for than EI. She said most ppl go to EI for the Transcontinental flights.

Now I'm not trying to be controversial and don't doubt that any flying job is fantastic to have but......
Have they got something of a special relationship going on with RYR that would bring about such a comment?

[jiffajaffa]

A comment like that was prob made from a student that prob hasnt even gone solo!

PTC have no relations with the airlines!

[Captain Planet]

Instructors at PTC are second to none! Experienced, enthusiastic, they love flying, and very easy to get on with. People may have their grievances with finance and sales pitch (invalid if it maybe?) etc. but the instructors at PTC are solid.

CP.

[rallye parachute]

Have to agree with Capt Planet. The instructors that are in PTC are excellant. I've had numerous instructors throughout my modular training in Europe and the States and can't fault any of the advice i was given while in PTC. Received 1st time passes in all my flight tests. To me the results alone speak for themselves.

[rojocrv]

PTC claim to have a 98% sucess rate in placing pilots within the first 2 months. this seems rather high and i have been tokd the market is flooded with first officers at the moment.
Are these claims true????

[ju87a]

Any claim like that in this business never has a backbone to it! Research carefully where you would like to train but do not let people with no experience of an fto put you off. Happy researching!

[jonah07]

Ive learned from a very reliable source that PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE OF IRELAND in waterford send u over to do your ppl and when u come back u are in possession of an faa(NOT A JAR/JAA) ppl licence and also a radio licence that is not valid in jaa/jar land(so technically if this is true which ive been assured by quite a few qualified pilots that it is) these students are flying illegally when they are doing there cpls and instrument ratings lol! ---------and lets face it there is guys converting faa instrument ratings and faa cpls to jar/jaa instrument ratings and jar/jaa cpls(because to work for a european airline operating in europe they will laugh at you with your faa licences!) in the flight school i am in(uk) at the moment these guys are way off the standard required and cant believe how much of a higher standard is required to get a jar licence as a pose to an faa one be it cpl or intrument rating
Also met a guy yesterday who got charged an absolute fortune for a night rating in ptc (was quoted one price and ended up paying 3 times as much ---FACT

be aware

[fullrich]

You can train in Ireland on a faa ticket for a JAA licence/rating . Its part of the conversion course and has been around along time now. Many ex PTC students like myslef converted and are flying safely these days. What you cant do legally is go solo but that shouldnt be neccessary. PTC being the wise business people they are are saving themselves alot of dosh in this method as the FAA certs are much cheaper.
One thing I can say in favour of the FAA ground school is that it maybe simpler and more straight forward but the is evey bit as good and much more practical. The JAA flight test however is much tougher in. IMO

[dand07]

Are you sure about training in ireland with an faa radio ticket? Check that one out on jar fcl ops and regs:=
Theres trouble there at the moment

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi there
I was in touch with them about doing the FI and they wanted me to go to EFT in Florida and then come back to them to work off the hours to de-restrict the FI.Noooooooooo thank you! EFT can't deal with what they've got, not to mind anyone else's students.
regards
TDD

[Lurking123]

Being a modular type (waltzing through Bristol GS as I type:\ ), has anyone got feedback other than cost regarding PTC? I'm looking for a CPL/ME/IR package and would appreciate something constructive.

[ptcstudent]

Hi there, The PTC website is www.pilottraining.ie (http://www.pilottraining.ie) where you will find a phone number to contact someone regarding a price quotation for the CPL/ME/IR.
I have uploaded my diary of experience to date with PTC on www.pilotcourseireland.com (http://www.pilotcourseireland.com). It might help in deciding on PTC or not.

[Tony_Soprano17]

Anybody out there have any experience doing the atpl distance learning course with the PTC (Pilot Traing college of Ireland)?

Any info would be great, trying to decide on which course to go for.

[preduk]

Covered many times, see:

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/314562-waterford-ptc-ya-right.html

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/306730-ptc-waterford.html

[I_love_to_fly00]

Has anyone who has been a student at ptc had to get a solicitor involved and take them to court over money??

[billymurphy]

There seems to be the same sort of tricks going on at the so called "Canadian Aviation Academy", I'm just wondering if the two FTO's are run by the same management? Nothing like getting shafted by your own, eh? Disgusting, simply disgusting.
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/337637-canadian-aviation-academy-3.html

[I_love_to_fly00]

So has anyone had to take ptc to court then? Need some advice myself getting messed about with them, all they seem to do is take my money and not deliver on what i signed in my contract, also get fed up being passed around different instructors all the time, they all have there own way of teaching nothing seems standard!! Help!

[User_Irish88]

Hi there were some questions asked about doing single licences as against a full modular course, for this if it concerns the cpl or ir then i would take a look at stapleford, its located in london and it is a very good prestigious school, with a known name in aviation. Not too cheap but good value, the training and experiance gained is second to none!
Stapleford Flight Centre - Professional flight training and private flying lessons, London, Essex, UK (http://www.flysfc.com/)
:ok: