Becoming a Police Pilot [Archive]

Zeusman

14th Jan 2001, 11:04

To help set the record straight. GMP ASU pilots are currently still employed by MAS. The contract for pilotage at GMP ran out on the 31st Dec 2000 but this has been renewed on a short term basis. The long term future of pilotage at GMP is still undecided but it looks likely to be one of two choices either stay with MAS or go to direct employment. There are still things going on in the background but so as not to jeopardize any on going negotiations I will not comment further.

PurplePitot, If direct employment is so bad why did you leave MAS in the first place and secondly why don't you go back to them? You only talk about the additional benefits i.e pension, loss of licence etc. but do not mention the basic salary. A post was advertised at your unit recently paying £35,000 and that wasn't for covering 12 hour shifts. I have heard that start salary with MAS is £29,000 and that may include 5 day/night 12 hour shifts. I have also heard that leave isn't always available as there isn't enough relief pilotage to cover it so leave can't be a. Fully used and b. Taken when you want it.

So anytime you want to go back to being a contract pilot feel free!!!

"May the God of weather treat you kindly"

Finals4TheOutsideWorld

14th Jan 2001, 15:47

Glad to have caused some debate on pros & cons of direct employment but the reason for my original thread was to try and get a job. When you are about to become unemployed then who really cares about pension contributions etc. At present I fall into the catagory of not really caring. My priority is to get a job first and then better my life from there.
So as I said in my last post, contacts and info gladly received.

Fortyodd

14th Jan 2001, 19:02

Finals4...... If you are going to contact MAS, try Hayes rather than Oxford, 0208 848 9647.

Chip Lite

15th Jan 2001, 01:02

You will rue the day you had dealings with the wretched whippet and the poison dwarf of MAS!!!!!

Night Sun

15th Jan 2001, 04:11

"(b) won't get "dumped" by my beloved company when work is thin on the ground!!"

There were some older Bristow pilots that thought that too!

Thomas coupling

15th Jan 2001, 22:04

Finals4: What is your background in the military, is it aviation related? You'll need the beloved ATPL(H)with oodles of PiC time and/or night time. I'm therefore assuming you've got all this or you're wasting everyone's time!
That aside, keep an eye on 'Flt Int' as it is a good medium for advertising these posts [which is a legal european requirement now]. If you are really keen, visit the suppliers of pilots to the industry: MAS/PAS/Aeromega, mainly don't just ring them /send CV. Get your face seen. You might have to go through the route of supply pilot for a while to get the experience and to get known in the industry. I believe it is quite difficult to go straight into a DE job from outside.
If all my previous assumptions about you are correct, can I also assume that you left the military with a 'wadge' of money which should bide you over while job hunting? Show yourself, get stuck in, and above all, don't think you are owed a job because your ex-mil...it doesn't go down well with the hirers and firers!!! Where there's a will...etc...etc

http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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Thermal runaway.

Skycop

16th Jan 2001, 00:14

TC, I think you will find that a CPL(H) will suffice provided that all other PAOM requirements for minimum experience are met.

W.Whippet

16th Jan 2001, 01:47

Chip

You should be careful because in your small world the pseudonym doesn't conceal the identity. A reputation for whining and whingeing clings like a Leach.

By the way we are so grateful that you jumped before you ...... but I hope BM doesn't rue the day as well.

To Everyone Else

If you can stand a bit of heat, show some initiative and give as good as you get, the rewards are not bad and the variety well - yachts in the Med, Grand Prix around Europe, additional qualifications and, of course, pursuits around a large part of England.

It must be worth an inquiry but we have learned to be very choosy.

W.Whippet

[This message has been edited by W.Whippet (edited 15 January 2001).]

Thomas coupling

16th Jan 2001, 02:00

Well phrased WW. Perhaps you were 'suckered' into responding! Surely this Chip lite can't be the very same pilot who allegedly kept reminding everyone he had "BSc" behind his name and also allegedly was trained by the RN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a frighteningly small world...I can smell a burning bridge.

http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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Thermal runaway.

Finals4TheOutsideWorld

16th Jan 2001, 02:51

TC, many thanks for the words of encouragement. You are correct, Mil background, ATPL(H)in back pocket, oodles of PIC and certainly not thinking I am owed a job. I've had to strive and work for everything so far, don't see why moving employers should be any different. Safe flying..............Finals.

Fortyodd

17th Jan 2001, 01:02

Chip Lite,
Are we to understand, from your last post, that a). You've worked off your training bond and b). You won't be asking for a reference?

neverinbalance

17th Jan 2001, 13:17

F4,

Get a CV to PAS quick as they are recruiting shortly.

As for the DE banter I hear that Devon & Cornwall Line Pilots are on £40,000. Can anyone confirm this?

[This message has been edited by neverinbalance (edited 17 January 2001).]

MightyGem

17th Jan 2001, 13:20

TC are you a very tall, slim chap with the initials RP?

Thomas coupling

17th Jan 2001, 16:55

Might be.....on the other hand...
Who might you be?

If you think D & C might be on a good earner...wait till you find out what the Met line pilot is on!!!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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The Nr Fairy

19th Jan 2001, 14:52

TC :

Following on from MightyGem, as you've got no email address, might you also be a 902 pilot flying from the ASU behind CCO, near the playing fields ? If so could you drop me a line, email in the profile. If not, never mind.

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

26th Apr 2001, 22:51

Anyone confirm that at least one UK police outfit is having trouble retaining pilots?

What is going on?

MightyGem

26th Apr 2001, 23:16

Can't you be a bit more specific? There are quite a few(units that is). And why the concern?

[This message has been edited by MightyGem (edited 26 April 2001).]

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

27th Apr 2001, 00:50

No concern.

Just always led to believe by posts on this site that police flying is such a great job (yours included?) so why is there such a high turnover of pilots at the moment?

Out of Balance

27th Apr 2001, 03:04

Police flying is very rewarding in the professional sense, however, the relatively low pay combined with a 60 hour week and a bouyant airline job market would have an effect on retention.

Thomas coupling

27th Apr 2001, 17:06

I don't think there is a mini crisis underway (to my knowledge). Which force area were you thinking of Arty?

This industry, like so many others, has its transient aircrew as a result of market forces. I did bleat on about this eons ago (mainly w.r.t. F/W), but on the whole I would suggest the turnover is slow, steady and predictable.
Anyone disagree?

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Thermal runaway.

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

27th Apr 2001, 22:11

I heard from a UK friend that one of the police units has just had its second chief pilot leave within a month. Is this anything to do with a bent aircraft?

Kipper

28th Apr 2001, 11:23

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

In answer to your post. The unit you are talking about recently changed Contractor. As a result, the Chief Pilot decided not to transfer but instead move to the Big Yellow Diggers Flying Club. The remaining 2 pilots transferred, the senior of which has been offered a job back with his old company in a more domestically attractive area and quite understandably has decided to take it.

Incidentally, none of the Unit pilots were involved in the tail damaging incident you alluded to.

My experience is that there is always a period of upheaval during change of ownership of the contract but once settled the turnover returns to a slow trickle with the main casualties being to the fixed wing market.

Kipper

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

28th Apr 2001, 17:59

Kipper,

Was the first chief pilot a large cowardly australian then?

I have heard that the UK salary for police pilots is quite poor bearing in mind the experience required. Perhaps this was also a factor.

tintinfly

29th Apr 2001, 01:13

We are experiencing exactly the same problem in our Police Airwing's throughout South Africa......

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

29th Apr 2001, 03:49

Tail damage or pilots leaving?

Letsby Avenue

29th Apr 2001, 13:24

Hey Arty, Where exactly is the European State?

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

29th Apr 2001, 13:53

Ask your Tony Blair..

Thomas coupling

1st May 2001, 00:14

Look at the latest Flight Int mag. Humberside are setting a good example (salary) for all those to follow....hopefully! More power to their elbow.

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Fat Freddy's Cat

1st Sep 2001, 19:49

Just a question for those in the know out there!
What is the kind of salary that a pilot can begin to expect when flying for a UK air support unit. Has there been any discussion of salary reviews in lieu of the North Sea movement?
thanks!

Ally1987

2nd Sep 2001, 17:16

Last I heard, PAS were paying approx. £30k+, McAlpine £31-32+, Bond £33+ All figures -ish.
As to pay reviews, I don't know, but how are they going to manage to compare with a co-pilot on the North Sea going from 37-39k pre-salary increase to 54-57k post 47% pay rise?

FLIR

2nd Sep 2001, 23:54

Fat Freddy & Ally,
The figures that you give are in the Ball-park. Pay reviews are in-line with inflation or less - they sometimes happen and sometimes not!!! There is no comparison with the north sea boys and girls - they have a union to sort it out for them, individuals may or may not have membership in the police world, but i am not aware of anyone using this as alever to extract more pay!!

FLIR

MightyGem

3rd Sep 2001, 23:54

Pilots that are employed direct by the Police, tend to get somewhere in the region of 4-7K more than those employe by outside companies.

twistgrip

6th Sep 2001, 16:45

FLIR,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all ASU operations in the UK are flown VFR.

How many Police pilots have current Instrument Ratings?

The North Sea boys are all Instrument Rated and this is reflected in their salaries.

As an aside - the Met Police used to fly IFR machines and this was stopped when they changed types. Bristow (IFR) pilots flew their Bell 222's and probably one of the reasons they lost the contract was pilot's salaries.

Perhaps you Police boys should think about putting up a case for IFR status. Think how it would reduce your operating minimums and provide that additional bolt hole when you're out on the ground looking for that Misper and the wx is closing in.

Of course you'd have to persuade the Police Authority to re-equip the aircraft with IFR fit!!

Thomas coupling

6th Sep 2001, 19:38

Twist grip, I suspect you don,t know what you are talking about, OR your'e baiting (because of your number of previous entries)!
Anyway who cares, lets stir it up and get excited for a change:

Pay differentials for IR pilots average £1000-£2000. Not 10,000-20,000 as is the differential on the N.Sea.

There are IR pilots in our industry. There will be many more in the next few months when a well known service provider completes its programme of IR conversions.
There has never been a demand for IR in the industry because if you can't see what you're doing you're wasting everybodys time!

You can't simply go "inadvertent IMC" because you are IR'd and just pop into the nearest diversion, as you well know!!!
You need to plan to go IFR. When you do that life in a light twin with minimum fuel reserves becomes very difficult to calculate.

All future 135's and 902's are being purchased as SPIFR as standard.[902 when cleared which is not far off].

Force areas don't always supply workable MSA's or close diversion open 24hrs a day with nav aids. None of the a/c are cleared for icing.

Need I go on, or have I bitten off enough bait??? ;)

Roofus

6th Sep 2001, 20:06

I have to say I'm with TC on this one!

I have a current IR. So? they get more because they regularly fly IMC two pilot? Fine. I regularly fly nights single pilot. I do Instrument training every 90 days....um where is the difference?

Our limits for VFR won't go any lower they can't. We need to be below cloud to do our job.....you can only allow that cloud to be so low....an IR would make no difference.

Yuck I hate the taste of bait!

ChristopherRobin

7th Sep 2001, 01:02

Hi guys, just looking in from the Military pilots' page and was verrry interested at the wages quoted for N Sea pilots by ally. Is this for real? I am thinking of bailing out of the army pretty soon as I am languishing in a desk job with 1200 hours and a lot of time in NI under my belt. I'd really like to go HEMS but I believe you need a lot more hours than I have, but with that kind of cash for N sea, it would make it more attractive.

Or is it for captains only?

Any more info, or any advice? I'd be really grateful as my current job stinks - last year I was flying around S Armagh having the time and job of my life. Now its a big decision whether I inspect my fingernails or flick paperclips across the room.

Thanks guys!

john du'pruyting

7th Sep 2001, 14:02

It is most unlikely that police pilots are going to comand the sort of salaries that N Sea pilots get. In the end it will be down to 'where does the money come from'
The N Sea pilots are providing a service to the Oil Companies and contractors that is an indespensible part of the whole offshore operation. The Oil Companies need those helicopters and have more than enough dosh to pay the current (or an increased and more realistic) rate.
The Police Helicopters are funded by the local Police Authority, these are organisations that are looking to save money wherever they can, with most of them having recently funded new and expensive helicopters, they are unlikely to want to shell out even more money to pilots (they all imagine we get about 50K anyway!).
So that leaves Police pilot payrises to come from one source. The operating companies, and as they all say that they make no money from police aviation I suppose its going to be a long wait.
Yours, the devils advocate
To Christopher Robin
If you don't object to the idea of living in Scotland, and you don't want to fly fixed wing give the N Sea a go it isn't quite as bad as people would have you believe :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

semirigid rotor

7th Sep 2001, 19:33

I think its time to stir up this I/R debate a little more. I think its a good idea for police pilots to have an I/R, why? Many reasons. Firstly nobody is suggesting that we look for bad guys while still in cloud (which is the usual uneducated answer given when this topic is mentioned):MAD: An I/R is more than just flying procedures and an approach at the other end. The ability to fly accuratly and safely in IMC, having the confidence to climb up and recover for an approach is the only way as an industry we are going to stop or at least help prevent weather related accidents. We have all been caught out at some time or other and who hasn't come back, landed and thought "got away with that one!" We are now in the 21st century, SPIFR helicopters are coming so why shouldn't the pilots be similarly rated? As for my own consortium area we have a number of 24hr approaches, so recoveries will not be a problem for us. The 30mins every 3 months? To be safe, no where near enough. Scud running should be kept to the minimum if not another weather related accident is inevitable. :(

Skycop

8th Sep 2001, 01:29

I used to hold military master green ratings on both rotary and fixed wing. Since leaving the services I have flown rotary with an IR (single pilot IFR) and latterly without one because the aircraft I flew in the police role was not certificated for IFR and my employer was not interested in keeping me current. I am now about to work up to an IR again, this time for a different employer.

I am not actually convinced that having an IR will make the police job any safer or more effective for many experienced pilots although the instrument training is very much welcomed. It will no doubt become more of an issue now that pilots with less instrument experience are being accepted by pilotage providers and new, more IFR capable aircraft are introduced.

It remains that with current technology the only effective way of carrying out the police role is to stay VMC (visual contact) and also the safest bearing in mind that many police units are located well away from airfields and have no CAA recognised letdown available in the vicinity.

Weather limits are already about as low as they can be, bearing in mind that the crew do need to operate below cloud once on scene.

However, I say bring in the IR asap. It should help to reinforce the case for a long awaited increase in salary for police pilots, to bring this part of the industry into line with others.

SC

Thomas coupling

8th Sep 2001, 02:36

Semirigid: I sense from reading your input, you might be one of those who pushes it maybe a little too far at times when it comes to bad weather. I don't want to tempt fate, but in my 7 years experience and 1000's of launches, I can honestly say, I have never come back thinking it was a close shave - weather wise. There is/should never be an occasion when there isn't an escape route (even landing in a field like i did last week) available when doing this job in accordance with the POM weather minima. Doesn't impress the bobbies, for one!
After all none of the jobs are worth CFIT
:eek:
I would suggest that a smug IR pilot might operate closer to the weather minima or beyond because of his over estimated opinion of his abilities :confused:

At the end of the day an IR is an expensive commodity in the police world when one considers the initial outlay and currency costs not I suspect in the interests of best value when you do a statistical analysis of the subject.
What mayhappen, is that service providers maypersuade a less seasoned police force to adopt the policy in the interests of technical progressand others will follow. One of the extremely few benefits of contract pilotage :D
Think of the revenue stream for the suppliers then :p

But I could not possibly comment :D

This current shortage of pilots might serve to remind our employers that it's not just IR's that need addressing!

Go direct employment if you want decent remuneration.

Roofus

8th Sep 2001, 11:15

TC- well said that man!

The PAOM forbids IMC in Police Aircraft, so landing in a field is the preffered alternative.

As for Police Pilot I/R's & currency hmmmm.... I agree that 30mins in 90 days isn't enough in the 'real world' just in case....but as the rules I operate under forbid IMC how do you argue that point?

SPIFR machines are surely gonna change that... from a personal point of view, I hope so! But in the meantime.....

As for salaries...agreed! Police Authorities are very unlikely to ever get near coughing up North Sea salaries. So each to their own...I don't get paid as well as North Sea drivers but, having flown the North Sea, I'm happier with my present lot in life! :D

semirigid rotor

8th Sep 2001, 13:36

TC & Roofus I take your points, but firstly TC I do not think that I push it to far, In fact I have often been accused of the opposite! And yes I have landed in fields and completed the subsequent voyage report! But having held an I/R for some time, with the average experience level of police pilots going down due to various factors, SPIFR machines coming, why not qualify the pilots? Will the Police Federation stand by if another weather related accident happens. I think not, and neither do my collegues at work. And to pick up on one final point, if IMC is not allowed, with SPIFR machines in a number of consortiums now, surely pilots will not fly IMC just because the machine is capable? That is asking for trouble!

Coconutty

8th Sep 2001, 22:55

Hmmm - Police Authorities paying for Pilotage - could be a whole new topic - "Directly employing pilots" - I wonder how much the likes of McAlpine / PAS etc are charging the P.A's for the pilots ?? :eek:

Marco

9th Sep 2001, 01:41

I won't go into details for obvious reasons. Suffice to say it is considerably more than the pilots are paid. It would be nice to think that the annual % increases to the customer are also reflected at the end of the month to the pilots. They're not!! :(

army427

9th Sep 2001, 02:09

But the operating companies are not making any money from PA's are they?? ;)

Thomas coupling

9th Sep 2001, 02:36

Having done further research on pilot salaries, the following may be of interest:

The least paid police line pilot is the rookie joining the industry via a service provider for the first time on approx £30,000; pound for pound pension up to a maximum of £100/month, and an income protection scheme (75%) for a maximum of 1 year. 28 days leave total. No guarantee of annual increments or annual pay rises.

The best paid police line pilot is fairly experienced and joining as a directly employed pilot on £40,000; superannuation scheme (occupational pension, index linked), loss of licence cover to £150,000, personal accident protection. 31 days leave total. Annual pay rise linked to a government pay review board and annual increments to reflect experience.

The best paid pilots, overall:

A training grade chief pilot (TRE/IRE/CTC) with 'x'years time in the trade, directly employed, not necessarily government service...with an IR. £55,000. + pension, private health insurance, LOL, company car and other performance related benefits.

What level of professional equivalence would you define a line pilot; and a chief pilot?

Consultant/solicitor/doctor/shop foreman/deputy headmaster/chief inspector/lieutenant commander/major/sergeant/chief engineer

:confused:

army427

9th Sep 2001, 07:57

Interesting. I was employed by a service provider over 12 years ago and started on 26,000 then. Doesn't seem to be much improvement.

ShyTorque

9th Sep 2001, 14:35

You're right!

I was re-offered the same job 5 years later - and the salary hadn't increased one penny!

ShyT :eek:

Arkroyal

9th Sep 2001, 19:14

Guys,

Sit tight and the laws of supply and demand will kick in.

When a police pilot job advert fails to attract anyone with the required experience, because they've all gone to the airlines, we might just see a reasonable remuneration.

Thats as long as there are no playboy hobby pilots left! :p

Thomas coupling

9th Sep 2001, 22:54

All that will happen is that the service providers will persuade the police to lower the entry level. Eventually the police will train their own.... ;)

Ally1987

10th Sep 2001, 00:45

50k

army427

10th Sep 2001, 01:17

When a certain service provider will happily employ pilots with 1000 hours and no command time I can't see pay rises any time soon.

Marco

10th Sep 2001, 03:17

TC - I can't see the police allowing a drop in experience levels whatever service providers say. The Home Office & CAA are quite keen that the minimum levels stated in the PAOM are increased.

As far as the police training their own????

Thomas coupling

10th Sep 2001, 04:57

Marco, it happened recently. I was there when a service provider commented that they were having trouble finding pilots with existing POM quals. They asked for a review of these quals and lo and behold some forces have massaged the requirements to fit!!
Can't hear any noises from the glass house?

W.R.T. police training their own...it's what the yanks do. Not inconceivable methinks...on the other hand, they'd never stay for a bobbies salry would they?? :D

john du'pruyting

10th Sep 2001, 05:54

Hey TC, remember that the request from the service provider was just to drop the amount of twin time, the total flying hours requirement was not a problem. :)

wallsend

10th Sep 2001, 17:43

Well now. I'm told that at least one well known provider is charging the bobbies over twice what they actually pay the pilots: the latter getting circa £31K.

In most cases direct employment means that the pilots' would get much more than they do now and the bill to the tax payers would actually be less!!

I don't think many police or air ambulance pilots expect to get North Sea pay, just the ones employed by the providers would like to get a little more - not too much to ask for 10 and 12 hour night shifts! ;)

MaxNg

11th Sep 2001, 00:43

TC

The thought of the police training thier own!!! Yuk

All that you will end up with is another group of tunnel visioned YES men with a limited range of flying experiance and and the personality of a doorstop.

for self training read inbreading

Granade!!!!!!!! :p

Marco

11th Sep 2001, 05:53

TC - I have no doubt you are absolutely correct. More fool the police force who accepts lower standards, certainly not a "duty of care for their employees" to coin a popular phrase in police circles. Let us hope there isn't any sort of incident which will force their hand. :confused:

11th Sep 2001, 10:34

As an ex plod who now flys helicopters, I agree totally. Police trained pilots would be a bad idea, as they wouldn't get the experience.

I have been out of the job for over 14 years and had a wide and varied flying career, which I now feel gives me a chance to return to Police aviation.....but the salary :eek: I was recently offered £32k by McAlpine, Jim new the response he received!

£50k + you are worth it, but the question is asked, where do the police get the funds to increase the pay from? It is not like the oil industry, where the clients have billions to spend?

Marco

11th Sep 2001, 12:27

Average wage £30-32K as stated by TC. Service providers charge in the region of £57 to £60K per year per pilot.

Arkroyal

11th Sep 2001, 13:25

Re the police training their own:

Exactly what happened in the infancy of Police aviation [no reference to PAS]. Result: one Optica and two bobbies in a smoking hole.

That brought about the status quo we now enjoy, i.e. experienced professional pilots in Police aviation.

I am concerned that as many (including me) poke off to the airlines for £60k plus salaries, the old bill will have to pay a lot more or lower standards to fill seats. It is already happening.

leee

4th Jan 2002, 19:16

Hello all,
I'm here to ask advice and words of wisdom.
1. I am trying to find out the normal requirements to land a job with the UK Police aviation devision.I keep searching but come up with nothing.
2. If anyone has information about converting from the FAA to the JAA i would love to hear it.

If anyone would like to email me on either question i would be thankfull.
[email protected]

Cheers Lee...

ShyTorque

4th Jan 2002, 19:21

There is no such thing as the UK Police Division.

You need to speak either to Police Aviation Services, MacAlpine Helicopters, or Aeromega who are the main civilian contractors providing pilots to the UK police.

piloteddy

4th Jan 2002, 20:19

leee:

There was an ad in Flight Int a week or two ago for a line pilot in an EC135 (I think). I'll have a look and see if I can find a copy and put the details on here for you!

B Sousa

4th Jan 2002, 20:34

As to the Conversion, go to (www.heli.com) Check out the site and give them an email. They will respond and maybe best answer your question.

piloteddy

4th Jan 2002, 21:02

Ok here you go:

Min requirements for that particular post are:

UK ATPL(H)
5 Years experience in Heli's
2000 hours TT of which 500 are PIC inc 50 Night and 100 Twin.

Hope that helps!

Droopy

4th Jan 2002, 21:28

Piloteddy is correct about the general hours requirements but I think you'd find that only 5 years would indicate a level of experience too narrow for most employers/police clients to look at you. Probably. The last times we hired the guys who got the jobs each had 10-15 years+ and 3000hrs+; I'd guess that is pretty typical for UK police ASUs.

leee

4th Jan 2002, 22:16

Well now im just plain old depressed, Ive been looking at converting etc. and it just seems like my time and licenses count for nought.
How do you ( as a civilian ) get that much time?
DOOM & GLOOM........
may as well give in and go become an accountant!!

Droopy

4th Jan 2002, 22:34

Leee, I think you have to look very hard at just what you get on a UK ASU. The money isn't great, certainly less than the offshore operators and nowhere near airline standards. The job, for all you may have seen in the media, is predominantly one of standby [I presently spend around 2000 hours at work annually and my yearly flying is currently 150hrs, though I suspect that's 50 below the average]. The flying itself is useful public service but rarely the sort of stuff you see on TV.
It does, however, allow you home every night and normally in a part of the country one wants to consider home - that's why I do it, so if you take away the volume of flying and make the location a long way from your roots surely it seems less attractive?

leee

4th Jan 2002, 22:57

Although i realise it isn't going to be as exciting as on the tv, i didnt know you flew so few hours, they always seemed to be flying over me when i lived in birmingham ( im from nottingham ) but the idea of being home every night and set hours sounds nice. I know i must suffer for my trade but i'm instructing and doing charter and tours at the moment which tends to be a bit last minute. Just as a guide what are the wages like ( both north sea and ASU ) ??

Cheers Lee...

Thomas coupling

7th Jan 2002, 02:49

Droopy, who do you fly for? 150 hours per year, you're either having too many holidays or not pulling your weight!

Droopy

7th Jan 2002, 05:01

Neither is true TC; note the number of duty hours! Last year I flew around 210 so I guess this year has just been exceptionally quiet for me. Our unit as a whole has done about 850hrs for the year.

[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Droopy ]</p>

ppheli

7th Jan 2002, 17:53

SkyTorque, you're omitting the fact that more and more units are employing direct and not via the operators. The requirements don't seem to change though, Lee!

ShyTorque

7th Jan 2002, 19:12

Ppheli,

Thank you, you are quite right about direct employment becoming more common.

I thought it best to point the original poster at one of the providers because they are still the experts on requirements in general and the people that know are easier to track down.

Individual Police Authorities do have different experience requirements, so contacting one unit in isolation might give a false impression of the overall picture.

P.s. It's SHYT, not SKYT <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Bertie Thruster

23rd Jan 2002, 00:20

Avon and Somerset police are welcoming applications from disabled pilots for the police chopper job at Bristol according to their advert in Flight International.

kingsardine

23rd Jan 2002, 00:48

I wonder if mental disability qualifies?

john du'pruyting

23rd Jan 2002, 15:02

it doesn't just qualify...it's a pre-requisite :)

Marco

23rd Jan 2002, 20:47

BT

Your comment just goes to show how little you know about public authorities or pilots <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

semirigid rotor

23rd Jan 2002, 22:43

oooh!

lills

24th Jan 2002, 08:14

If you don't start mentally disabled you sure will end up like that, trust me I know !!!

widgeon

24th Jan 2002, 15:23

isn't there an l and a k missing from the word in the header LOL.

md 600 driver

25th Jan 2002, 13:38

now i think you cant spell the c wants changing to t to read pilots . .just because they fly free in there top of the range helis [jealous to death] there is no need to bad mouth them

PUP

22nd Mar 2002, 14:49

How come MPASU are recruiting - I thought only a month or 2 ago they were supposed to be losing an a/c? Pay's not bad - I'd almost consider giving up my shiny jet and go back to real flying!. .. . :D

Bearintheair

22nd Mar 2002, 22:50

They're just following the trend and going to direct employment for all their pilots

paco

23rd Mar 2002, 13:46

I didn't know you could be employed indirectly..... .. .Phil

Tim Finding

23rd Mar 2002, 21:47

Police employees rather than sub contracted from a specialist company

Skycop

24th Mar 2002, 00:34

And cream off 50% of what the police pay....

SFIM

24th Mar 2002, 14:20

are these type of jobs advertised anywhere except flight international?. .if so can you tell me where?

Droopy

24th Mar 2002, 15:20

As far as I know Flight is the only place anyone uses.

ravenx

25th Mar 2002, 01:14

what are the requirements (not that I expect my PPL and all of 57 hours to come close:-))

MightyGem

25th Mar 2002, 14:21

Basic requirements are ATPL, 1500 hours(ish), with a large proportion of low level flying. It can vary slightly with different Police Forces, and I believe the Met have slightly higher requirements than most.. .

Ramp Monkey

23rd Apr 2002, 20:57

I've heard a rumour that the Police helicopter operators may be looking for experienced helicopter crewman to act as Oserver in the future. Could anyone email me or post any more details if this is true . I and a number of Military Crewman are due out soon and are interested in carrying on with something in the Civvy world? I also am aware of Jigsaw but are there any others about ?

More lookout

24th Apr 2002, 06:02

Ramp monkey, at present Hampshire and Suffolk forces use a few civilian observers. The number of units will probably increase as best practice takes grip and the desire of the gov to put more bobbies on the beat (thats my view).

Orange whip!

PANews

24th Apr 2002, 22:48

Look out for the very rare adverts for civilian observers posted in the back of Flight International.

TheSeeFarShadow

13th May 2002, 21:17

Can anyone give me information on flying with Police ASUs as an observer(?).

I'm currently non-pilot RAF aircrew (Air Electronics Operator), thinking about coming out and would like to know details about the job, such as how much flying, what it entails, which police forces employ them, pay (of course), pension etc.. I believe you don't have to join the police force (contractors? - someone mentioned a company called VertAir??). It all seems a bit sketchy but it's just an initial enquiry, don't know much!

Cheers

avrodamo

13th May 2002, 21:52

Im sure it is the same for all Police Forces, as i know it is with ours, you have to be a police officer to be an observer. The only civillians employed are the pilots themselves, and i believe that only really boils down to insurance and liabillity of a Police Force if a pilot is negligent.
In our force an observer needs to have completed a minimum of 2 years operational expoerience, been a member of a specialised unit i.e. firearms officer, CID, Traffic and be able to pass the pilot selection tests at RAF Cranwell. This also goes hand in hand with the usual interview and presentation rubbish. :rolleyes:

scroggs

13th May 2002, 22:42

As, I think, all Police ASUs fly helos, and there isn't much, if any, helo experience here on Wannabes, I'll move this to Rotorheads where hopefully you'll find some authoratitive advice.

Droopy

13th May 2002, 23:34

This one crops up about every 6 months and was thoroughly discussed here [URL=http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39856]

Marco

14th May 2002, 21:53

In the UK there are only two, I believe, Air Operations Units that directly employ civilian observers and have recruited them from non Police ranks. Hampshire & Suffolk. Several forces are looking at it but I seem to remember previous emotive discussion in this forum from both sides of the fence.

I do not include Wiltshire in this as the UEO and Training Officer just moved hats, so to speak, but kept the same job.

:)

BIG MISTER

15th May 2002, 17:24

Surrey and the Met's only operate with Police observers
As regards Suffolk - the only observer I know is a WPC on Traffic

Thud_and_Blunder

16th May 2002, 16:52

Scroggs,

I think you might have upset the good people in Cheshire, Hants, Greater Manchester and Teeside - plus probably some others I have forgotten to mention - who ply their police trade in plank-wings (mainly Islanders).

The feeling here, not a million miles from the top of the M5, is that the officers on the ground would far prefer a police officer talking to them from the aircraft. However, if the bean-counters believe that civilian observers are cheaper, there's no beating them on mere operational-effectiveness grounds. Sad.

J.A.F.O.

17th May 2002, 23:20

As C Far obviously has a similar (but perhaps wetter) background to me the answer at the moment to your question is that there are two in Suffolk, another in Hampshire and while other forces may well be looking at it I certainly don't know of any forces with definite plans to recruit civvies.

Sorry it's nothing more definite.

Thomas coupling

13th Nov 2002, 00:32

I wonder if one of you can answer some questions on your job, please?

1. Do you have to be a police officer first?

2. Do you require aviation experience to be selected for a flying job in the police or do they train you from scratch?

3. What are the minimum flying quals req'd for the job?

4. Do you get paid the same as your ground colleagues?

Many thanks in advance...

Rotorbike

13th Nov 2002, 12:08

This is a currently advertised job for Baton Rouge, LA.

Hope it helps :) .... Couldn't find a wage.

STATE POLICE PILOT

The examples of work given are intended only as illustrations of the various types of work performed in positions allocated to this job. The absence of specific statements of duties does not exclude those tasks from the position if the work is similar, related or a logical assignment of the position.

JOB TITLE: STATE POLICE PILOT

FUNCTION OF WORK: To pilot helicopters and/or airplanes in order to perform duties related to law enforcement; and to provide highway traffic enforcement and support objectives of State Police by providing aerial transportation, survey operations, surveillance, and other related aerial activities.

LEVEL OF WORK: Journeyman.

SUPERVISION RECEIVED: General from a higher ranking State Police Pilot.

SUPERVISION EXERCISED: None

LOCATION OF WORK: Department of Public Safety and Corrections; Office of State Police.

JOB DISTINCTIONS: Differs from State Police Master Pilot by piloting only one type of aircraft (either airplanes or helicopters) and by the performance of less complex tasks.
Differs from other aircraft pilots by the type of aircraft piloted and by law enforcement activities.

EXAMPLES OF WORK: Performs all functions of State Police Commissioned Police Officer.
Pilots either helicopters or airplanes in patrolling Louisiana highways, water ways, and airports, checking for violation of state and federal laws.

Provides aerial transport for agency and other officials.

Provides aerial assistance to victims of natural disasters, hazardous material spills, and other disasters.

Directs efforts in quelling riots and other disturbances.

Directs and coordinates enforcement activities of units during law enforcement operations.

Coordinates with necessary personnel and determines methods to be used, time to complete, number of units required to complete projects assigned by Deputy Command Pilot.

Assists law enforcement units by providing an airborne observation platform to determine placement of men and equipment, access to areas not visible from the ground, and detection of violators such as escapees or lost persons.

Checks aircraft for airworthiness and determines if any factors such as weather would affect the safe operation of the aircraft.

Files appropriate flight plans and flight reports with necessary agency.

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: A baccalaureate degree plus possession of a current FAA Commercial Fixed-Wing Pilot's license with Instrument Rating or a Commercial Rotorcraft Pilot's License.

SUBSTITUTIONS: Experience in law enforcement will substitute for the required degree on a year for year basis.
Experience in aviation will substitute for the required degree as follows:

500 recorded flight hours for one year of college course work.
1000 recorded flight hours for two years of college course work.
1500 recorded flight hours for three years of college course work.
2000 recorded flight hours for four years of college course work.
Note: There is no substitution for the aviator's license or the Louisiana State Police law enforcement experience.

NECESSARY SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS Ability to check out on the models and types of aircraft to be flown.
Possession of a current FAA medical certificate.

Must be a fraduate of the State Police Training Academy and be P.O.S.T. certified. Must continue throughout appointment to meet the State Police P.O.S.T. requirements for recertification.

Note: Any college hour or degree must be from a school accrredited by one of the following regional accrediting bodies; the Middle States Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools; the New England Association of Schools and Colleges,Incorporated; the North Central Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools; the Northwest Association of Secondary and Higher Schools; the Southern Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools; the Western Association of Schools and Colleges.

HeliMark

13th Nov 2002, 18:30

One of the best places to look for that type of info is at www.alea.org (airborne law enforcement org).

That being said, the requirements vary a fair amount depending on what side of the country.

Most require that you are a current police officer. The understanding for that is you know what is happening on the ground and what your partner is doing.

I have heard of some training pilots from scratch, but that is very rare. Most require you to have some kind of license. LAPD requires a fixed wing pilot license and then they will start you from scratch on the helicopter. LASD requires a commercial helicopter license and then gives you around 80-90 hours of flight training plus ground stuff. Both require you be a ground officer several years, then an observer for several years before you can work into the pilot slot.

Prior flight time, other then what is required for the license, does not make a big difference at these departments. They will give the time required to bring you up to what they want.

Most departments pay the pilots several pay grades above the ground guys.

Thomas coupling

14th Nov 2002, 08:57

Thanks guys.

B Sousa

14th Nov 2002, 09:08

Having done a bit of that myself in another life I can say it depends on where you are located and how wealthy the agency is.
Most require you to be a Police Officer first and even to have a couple years or m ore on the street.
Pay is usually above that of a non flying type of equal rank, but again that varies as to the wealth of the agency..

Chuck K

14th Nov 2002, 09:24

Selection and Training for LAPD Air Support Division

The requirements to apply for Command Pilot are
minimum of 5 years with the Department
at least three years in patrol
an FAA Private pilot’s license
100 hours PiC.

After selection
approx six months of intense helicopter training
includes obtaining FAA commercial rotorcraft rating
check ride with our Chief Pilot to get Command Pilot "Wings".

Then the usual ongoing training, proficiency check rides.

Green Goblin

20th Nov 2002, 19:55

Thomas, you're not thinking of working on the other side of the pond are you? Or have you had enough of being a Special Constable and fancy some full-time police action? I knew that police life would rub off on you sooner or later. Good luck!

Notar fan

20th Nov 2002, 20:44

One other requirement that I do not see mentioned, any of the police pilot jobs I have looked at in the past require the applicant to be a US citizen.

Avcat

6th Dec 2002, 16:47

Does anybody now if a JAA CPL(H) is suffice for employment as a Pilot in a Police ASU even though they often advertise the need for a JAA/CAA ATPL(H). Have all the Hrs for ATPL including multi-crew time and ATPL theory credits. However, no civilian IR and thus cannot be issued with a full licence. My concern is that a UK CAA ATPL(H) does not require an IR therefore placing me at a disadvantage in comparison with an individual with a UK licence although I would be no more or less qualified than said individual. Reluctant to invest in Helicopter IR as firstly, already spent a small fortune on a fixed wing fATPL and secondly I believe IR not required for police ops. Any advice, info etc greatly received.

Helinut

6th Dec 2002, 17:36

When I saw the title, I thought this was going to be a re-run of a request that comes up every few months, but you have raised an interesting question.

There is absolutely no need for an ASU pilot to hold a JAA ATPL(H), rather than a CPL(H). You do not need an IR nor MCC experience, which is the significant difference between these two licences.

The requirements for ASU pilots are set down in the relevant PAOM. All PAOMs are based upon a standard "Part 1" published by the CAA as CAP 612. In there it says that the min qualification shall be a CPL(H). It then goes on to say that the operator shall stipulate the minimum levels of acceptable experience in the Part 2 of the PAOM. The Part 2 is written by the PAOC holder.

I think that the reference to an ATPL(H) goes back to the "old days" i.e. pre-JAR FCL. The only difference between a CPL(H) and an ATPL(H) then was the different minimum levels of experience. You needed the same ground exams and flight test and no IR. Thus, a CAA ATPL(H) and a JAA ATPL(H) are not the same beast.

I suspect that what PAOC holders have done is specify an ATPL(H) as part of the minimum experience requirements, when they wrote their PAOM back in the olden days. No one has caught up yet to the fact that almost all ASU pilots will not get an ATPL(H) when they renew their licence, but only a CPL(H).

If it becomes an issue in a particular case, you can only raise it and suggest that an JAA ATPL(H) is not needed, and that any requirement should be changed in the light of the changed requirements for an ATPL(H). However, until a PAOM is changed the PAOC holder may well be held to it by the CAA.

Thomas coupling

6th Dec 2002, 18:34

When the time comes to renew your CAA ATPL(H) you currently have the option to renew with a JAR licence or a CAA one. Therefore your old ATPL will become a new ATPL with the CAA. The paperwork didn't go into enough detail to indicate that conversion to a JAR licence would entail dropping back to a CPL(H) equivalent. However, most police pilots with ATPL(H)'s have enough hours to obtain a JAR ATPL.

Anyway, that aside, until the market dries up with ATPL pilots, no-one is going to take a CPL pilot in their place. Given the choice, you go for the most experienced guy for the job...value for money etc. Eventually someone will take on a CPL pilot either because of a lack of ATP pilots or because they think they can pay CPL pilots less money:rolleyes:

The military are currently paying their helo pilots to take ATPL exams, so unless this pool dries up, it looks unlikely that many CPL's will find themselves in a position to take a job with the police world...sorry.

Avcat

6th Dec 2002, 19:57

Many thanks for the quick replies and the solid information. However, as one of the military helo pilots given financial assistance towards an ATPL(H) I am not short of twin turbine time or experience in general, just a civilian IR. Therefore the conundrum still exists for me. Looks like my only hope is try and persuade any future employer that I have the required experience and that a CPL would be suffice.

Letsby Avenue

6th Dec 2002, 20:15

Since you're from the Northants area I hope you popped an application in to the post for the recently advertised Line Pilot position at Husbands Bosworth? Why don't you give the CP or UEO a call and discuss it directly? :cool:

john du'pruyting

6th Dec 2002, 20:31

As far as we are concerned, if you had the required hours and a CPL(H), then you would be in with the same chance as any other applicant... if we had a vacancy... which we don't!

Helinut

6th Dec 2002, 20:54

The point raised here may be of more importance more often than TC implies. Everyone will be doing the ATPL ground exams (no one offers CPL ground school), but there are a number of other hurdles that need to be jumped before someone is given a JAA ATPL(H). This includes an IR and significant multi-crew (not multi engine) time. Lots of perfectly suitable pilots for ASU work will not have the money or relevant experience to get the full JAA ATPL(H). Time will tell, but my guess is that PAOCs will start to revise the experience parts of their Part 2s as time goes on :)

Incidentally, TC is right that those of us who do hold CAA licences will be able to get like for like CAA new licences. What I should have said was that if we did try to apply for JAA ATPL(H) licences many of us would not have the necessary combination of IR(H) qualification and multi-crew time.

SFIM

17th Jan 2003, 10:36

Hi peeps,

what REALISTICALLY do you need in flying experience to get a Police job in the UK ?

I have seen police adverts which state

1. 2000 hours TT
2. 500 twin
3. 100 night
4. Low level experience an advantage

if for example you have more than the minimums all through civil flying only, made up of offshore twn IFR, and onshore single VFR.

will that be enough ? I am trying to sort out the difference between the minimums and what you need realistically. ?

also is it easier or harder to get an EMS job over a police one. ?

regards

Droopy

17th Jan 2003, 18:39

The minima you quote are probably about average for most UK police operators/contractors, though I'm not sure if many of us have people with as little time as that.

As far as getting the position, as ever so much of it comes down to interview and personality - most ASUs involve considerable amounts of time cooped up in an office for long periods of standby with precious little flying. There's very little of the sort of stuff you occasionally see on TV. You need to be an individual who can adapt to that environment with a fairly easy-going outlook, yet still produce the goods on a sh***y night at 4a.m.

I can't really comment on the EMS question.

All I can say is give it a go, you never know.

MBJ

17th Jan 2003, 20:40

There has certainly been a leaning towards ex-military pilots by most ASU's because much military experience (Low level, night, map-reading, surveillance etc) is relevant to Police work.

I will stick my head above the parapet and say that the more North Sea offshore experience you have the less likely you are to be employable in demanding roles onshore. Its a whole different world..you are on your own mostly, with little back-up. That does not mean I don't respect the offshore guys... I have done it, both NS and South China Sea..its just different.

Don't know about EMS - it certainly has its own stresses but since its usually daylight only, that does ease the burden on your skills.

A small point - I don't think Police work pays particularly well either compared to present NS deals.

idle stop

18th Jan 2003, 13:04

The minima quoted are just that. Some ASUs may be more demanding in their requirements. 'On-shore' experience is sometimes stipulated, but that does not mean that a pilot whose experience is substantially off-shore is to be ruled out, provided he can demonstrate sufficient land-based ability.
Flying is very hands-on and the task requires a good level of airmanship, generally founded on solid Command experience.
Ex-military pilots have a lot of good experience to offer, especially in the low-level environment, but I know at least one ASU pilot, whose background is purely civil who is a very safe pair of hands and a respected operator.
ASU salaries have improved. Pilots who are directly employed are earning £40K or more (plus benefits, especially a civil service pension!) a year around UK. The Contractors may still not have caught up. This doen't equate to N.Sea salaries and the hours are long. In the Met Police area, where houses are predicatbly expensive, most of the pilots travel some distance from home to duty over roads that can best be described as unpredictable, which extends the effective 'working day'.
If it's just the money, I hear that building worker on LHR T5 are going to earn £55K per year: so there are some well-paid on-shore jobs in aviation after all!
Back to ASU/EMS. Immensely satisfying, though sometimes frustrating jobs, with lots of challenges and very worthwhile.
SFIM, if you think the cap might fit, why not give it a try next time somebody is recruiting?

Tipstrike

18th Jan 2003, 15:18

Hi SFIM

As importantly as the hours minima you will need to have:
a. A god sense of humour (if you can't laugh at yourself, the
Police Observers certainly will!)

b. A Robust chararacter - a Captains four gold/silver bars won't
automatically generate respect from the passengers (CAA
agreed). This has to be hard won, as the Police Observers
are by now well educated as to what Police Aviation is all
about and they may well be paid more than you to boot!

c. Honesty - by this I mean the ability to put your hand up and
admit you f***ed up. Everyone makes mistakes, some never
admit it, pilots always, always should.

d. Enthusiasm - to do any job as well as flying.

e. Willingness to get your hands dirty, and I mean this literally
when it comes to sharing duties such as cleaning the aircraft
and the night kitchen at the end of the shift.

f. Ability to work in a very small team (typically you plus two
Observers)

g. Ability to work as a pilotwith very little supervision. You will
only see another pilot briefly at shift changeover and a
Training Captain every 6 months or so for IFP/OPC/LPC &
Line Checks etc. You need to set and be seen to maintain
the highest professional standards by a most educated and
critical Police crew.

h. Ability to provide vast quantities of tea and cake for the
crew

The above are just a few of what will matter at any interview and
when you start flying for the Police. It is a most rewarding career (if not always in financial terms). As always you get out of it in direct proportion to what you are prepared to put into it. So good luck and keep scanning the back pages of Flight International!

PS What is the current record for length of service as a Police Pilot in the UK? Ten, Fifteen years or more and why do you still do it?

Thomas coupling

19th Jan 2003, 08:10

Tipstrike: If you're ever in need of a job change, give us a call will you...you sound too good to be true:)

I believe (ready to be corrected) DA in Yorkshire, an ex PAS pilot now boss of his own company (still in the same industry), is the longest serving 'police pilot' [14+ years, is it DA??].

SFIM: We would look at a pure civvy and/or offshore pilot (we had one for a while!) provided they fitted the criteria Tipstrike listed! We do police/day HEMS/night casevac 24/7.
It's got to be said, the ems bits are the most exciting/challenging, but the police stuff has its moments.
If you are serious about doing this line of work SFIM, next time there is a vacancy -go visit, get to meet the crew (and I mean crew, not just the pilots), tell them you really want the job...it means much more than another Cv on the CP's desk:(

Good luck to you.........

Tandemrotor

19th Jan 2003, 09:21

Haven't you retired yet DA?

Ah, hover-taxiing the BO105 into the marquee every night.....

"Them wuz days."

"Tell kids of today that, thed never believe ya!"

SFIM

19th Jan 2003, 18:46

thanks guys for the replies, lots to think about there (especially providing vast quanties of tea and cakes!), I will definitely be having a go, I like the tip from TC to go and meet the crew.

one further point, assuming one does get employed by an ASU, is it generally allowable to do a little flight instruction and ad-hoc charter for other organisations (assuming you are staying within the FTL scheme) or is this frowned upon. as I would have thought it would help keep your flying skills topped up if the unit flying is low ?

john du'pruyting

19th Jan 2003, 19:06

SFIM, it depends on the shift pattern. 24 hr units on 12 hr shifts get either four or five days off between shifts. Commercial flying work of any sort would not be possible during that time due to our non standard but approved FTL schemes. Private flying during your days off...no problemo:)

What Limits

19th Jan 2003, 22:48

I dont know of many Police ASUs that have low hours except when the weather is a factor. Its often around 4 - 5 hours per shift, but the HEMS units do well to break into the 2 hours per day mark. Mind you, 2 hours could mean 15 sectors so plenty of time to hone your skills!

idle stop

20th Jan 2003, 07:54

SFIM:
Flight Time Limitations regulations mean that it is very unlikley that you would be able to engage in additional flying activities when working in the ASU/EMS roles. You might be able to indulge in purely recreational flying on a day off, but instructional flying-even unpaid-would nullify your day's rest. I suppose you could use your holiday time, though!

MightyGem

26th Jan 2003, 04:39

The new and the old.
Our new hot pursuit ship with the tired old one behind.
http://www.jetthrust.com/vote/pics/img3e33759fc663e.jpg

Helinut

31st Jan 2003, 20:00

SFIM:

I can confirm that almost all line pilots are used to the maximum of their agreed Flight Time Schemes. Any aerial work is therefore verboten (anything except private flying on small heles). :*

I know exactly where you are coming from though. I work as a Police line pilot. I love the job :D , but my skills are eroded because I am unable to do instruction or anything else away from the Police work.

Ex-mil guys often get allowed time-off to fly in their reserves, but us "civis" sadly do not have that option.

This is a small disadvantage though - like most things in the helicopter world sticking at something that you really want will give a positive result eventually!

Good Luck :D

MightyGem

1st Feb 2003, 14:50

What Limits: 4 OR 5 HOURS PER SHIFT!! Do you go off searching for Mrs Jones' pussy or suchlike? One of your ground patrols who called in hear last week was moaning that you never launch for them.

TC: I guess Tipstrike would love a new job if he knows bobbies that get paid more than their pilots;)

What Limits

1st Feb 2003, 15:03

I could neither confirm or deny that we search for 'Mrs Jones' pussy every night, but makes for plenty of practice on the various surveillance devices! Those observers are getting damn good!

What Limits

2nd Feb 2003, 08:56

Can anyone put me in touch with the Chief Pilot of the Calgary Police HAWC-1 unit please.

Helinut

2nd Feb 2003, 15:55

MG

Its not the limits on flying hours but the requirements for days off and duty time limits that cause the problem.

wde

2nd Feb 2003, 16:32

www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/hr/Postings/ccpcs004-PS03-4298.htm

www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/police/contactf.html

Inspector Kevin Brookwell

Air Services Unit (403) 295-7999 fax (403) 216-1146

What Limits

2nd Feb 2003, 17:13

Thanks for your prompt reply.

wde

2nd Feb 2003, 19:18

No problem. They have quite the turnover problem, there.
If you need more info, PM me.

(There is an -ex-AAC, ex-London police pilot working in Calgary as well, not for the CPS mind you) I can put you in contact with him as well.

Cheers

MightyGem

2nd Feb 2003, 21:23

Hmm...looking for a job are we?:D

What Limits

3rd Feb 2003, 08:20

Of course! Would do almost anything legal for money, except eat celery or rejoin the Army!

flygunz

3rd Feb 2003, 17:56

wde, if the ex AAC pilot is short, dumpy with fair hair with a nurse for a wife I would like to get in touch with him so would you please pm me?
If not ignore!
Ta

[email protected]

3rd Feb 2003, 20:00

Flygunz, dumpy? surely you mean cuboid! if you do get in touch with him, send him my regards - we shared an office at Wallop for a while.

wde

4th Feb 2003, 18:21

SHORT, DUMPY, with a NURSE for a WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess he doesn't lurk here anymore, too busy teaching others to fly in the dark. If he saw your last post, I'm certain it would set his blood boiling, his heart racing, even might put his PH out of wack!!!

I will send him a note to come visit this thread; he can then defend himself more appropriately...:)

He is well, BTW, and enjoying his new found status as a wannabe-colonial. Who knew?

Cheers

flygunz

6th Feb 2003, 07:57

wde, assuming I've got the right guy here, we go way back before both of us were Pilots! He was a slimish physical training instructor and I was a stroppy tank driver who couldn't map read (still cant before any cheap shots!!).
If you get a msg to him I would appreciate you passing on my best and crabs of course( I dont mean give him crabs but crabs regards!!!!:O )

TA

[email protected]

6th Feb 2003, 18:21

wde, I'm glad he made it to Canada - it's all he used to talk about in the office. He was planning to teach them NVG ops once Transport Canada gave the go ahead so I assume that is the way it's worked out.
PH, gissajob!!

wde

7th Feb 2003, 03:57

Well,

He came to Canada, flew a Police contract in CYYZ for 6 months, then moved up to '76's on EMS (where I met him and we worked together for 6 mths), then onto EMS work in Alberta with the BK117 and he is now the Ops Mgr at that new place.

From lowly SE, Copper-pilot-w@nker to Ops Mgr (grande Fromage) in 2 yrs..not bad. Still has wife, 1 child, an Owl that sees at Nite, and other things. I emailed him but got an out-of-office reply..he must be in Dallas is my guess....

Will pass on allyour greetings when we next x paths...

2nd2none

8th Feb 2003, 02:16

Thanks to wde for the update to all asking about 2nd2none. I did not realize that I was a w@nker but who knows?

Have a great time at HAI, wish you were here, not! Canada is just great, just need to get nursie to think the same.

To get back to the original thread, please contact me for info about the Calgary HAWKS project. Check your PM's for email info.

TTFN

SFLP

MightyGem

8th Feb 2003, 07:34

22n, greetings from Merseyside
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/3flypigs.gif

flygunz

9th Feb 2003, 10:36

It looks as if this is turning into a 286/287 reunion. As I look at the 287 course piccy, x out the 13 who perished, ignore the snco who works for Waitrose & the career Officer, dismiss the Orifice that fell asleep in the hover, that leaves only two candidates from 287 who could be down under.
Help me out here ratcatchers?
:D

flygunz

9th Feb 2003, 12:37

Then you will no doubt remember who was sat as co pilot, (second 2none as rear gunner) pissed with a light bulb in his hand... nes pas!!

john du'pruyting

11th Feb 2003, 13:03

flygunz. I'm gonna go out on a limb here but...if the one who worked for waitrose is the one I think you mean (PC), then he is quite suitable to be 'unignored' and join your hallowed ranks, since he now ploughs a mean furrow in the sky between Sumburgh and the ESB and has done for quite a few years.:p
signed
a novice from 288

KENNYR

11th Feb 2003, 13:29

Hi Guys, Just thought I,d muscle in with a "hullo" from 259 APC.
Nice to see so many from the Corps doing so well!

flygunz

11th Feb 2003, 19:23

John Du, hope you don't need that limb for flying as I think your mistaken. The chap to whom I refer was working for Waitrose the last time I saw him in Salisbury, if he also commutes to the frozen wastes I'll eat my wifes hat! Also, the ranks of 287 are far from hallowed and anyone with a tenner for a round is welcome. You can pm me if you like, we probably got drunk in the choppers with 2to0 and flungdung!!
Regards

Flungdung, pm on its way with email so we can get off this, fun though it is shorty!!:}

john du'pruyting

11th Feb 2003, 19:40

Flygunz, thinking about it you may be right....The Supra owner and ex shelfstacker that I am thinking of was probably a year before our time. Still, hello anyway.
and Hi Ken I take it you're enjoying Canada then? (You were the 669 QHI just before I went off to become a driver...:D

MightyGem

12th Feb 2003, 02:12

Not quite JD. Lance White was QHI when Ken was in 669.

What Limits

12th Feb 2003, 11:06

The Supra owner and shelf stacker that you refer to was on 283 with me and for one so small he sure made up for it in attitude!

Is this as far off topic as it can get, yet?

Perhaps us ex-AAC types need our own forum? What are your thoughts.

john du'pruyting

12th Feb 2003, 19:19

Thats right MG, senility is striking me. Why, I'm almost as old now as Ken seemed to be then;)

KENNYR

12th Feb 2003, 22:11

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUBBBBBIIIIIITTTTTTCCCCCCCHHHHHHH!!!!

PUP

16th Feb 2003, 20:28

As an ex-mil heli pilot with well over the "normal" hours/experience reqt for Police helicopter jobs, but not having flown rotary for almost 3 years, would this lack of recency be much of an issue with a potential employer? If so, would some recent flying on something like a 206 make any difference?

(I've been flying for an airline in the meantime - yeah, yeah, I know, no lectures please!)

What Limits

16th Feb 2003, 21:13

I do not think that that is an issue. I was plank winging for 8 years before going back to rotary and its hover or crash/burn/die so you remember quite quickly!

Do not bother with any heli-time as you should receive a comprehensive conversion to type anyway.

That is the theory anyway. :=

ShyTorque

16th Feb 2003, 21:28

PUP,

It probably wouldn't be an issue at all if you were the only one applying for the job. If you get my drift.

BTW, I have a fixed wing licence but haven't flown planks for some time. Do you think your present employer would let me have your job when you leave? ;)

Helinut

17th Feb 2003, 13:25

It is a competitive market out there. Like others, I don't think that recency is an issue. However, if two pilots apply for a job and one has the relevant type rating, there will be a tendency to go for the guy who does not need the money spending to get the type rating. This may apply especially to the commercial operators, rather than the directly employing ASUs. Mind you, most of them are looking for previous police flying experience.

It is simple really, if you look at it from a beancounter's perspective, why spend the money when the pilot may not make the grade or decide to go off somewhere else. (I am not agreeing with them, just saying how it often is).

Droopy

17th Feb 2003, 19:36

At our ASU we would be looking at the personality just as much as the currency aspects. We would always be prepared to train someone with the right breadth of experience and crew skills over someone qualified on type but who had an attitude problem.

Sadly no jobs at the moment though.........

Jez

17th Feb 2003, 19:56

PUP

I agree with the last post. Personality is a huge issue when it comes to employing a pilot. As a Chief Pilot of a SAR/EMS organisation, I have had more than enough experience to see that this is the case. Very lucky at the moment with the guys flying for me. I believe that this is the case not matter what part of the industry you may be in (EMS, Police, Media, Charter, etc)

The Police Air Wing in Sydney recently employed a pilot and he had no rating on any of the aircraft types they operated!! (B206, AS350B2 & AS355N).

Very out of the norm but the reason he got the job over the others was his personality and proven ability to work with a crew and understand each person's role on board (previous military experience). They are prepared to endorse him on their 3 aircraft types because they believe he will be a long term employee for them and stick it out for the long term.

Good philosophy I reckon. I hope it works out for both parties.

PUP

18th Feb 2003, 07:47

Dear All,

Thanks very much everyone for your answers. I'm pleased to hear that the general consensus is that heli' 'recency' is not an issue which should affect any choices I make regarding future employment!

ShyTorque,

If I could I would!

:)

MightyGem

23rd Mar 2003, 20:10

Me at work. On a good day!! :eek:
http://www.jetthrust.com/vote/pics/img3e7e95d9d1437.jpg

Thomas coupling

28th Mar 2003, 15:32

Just another day dodging the flack we get from grumpy 'crims':eek:

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/looptheloop135.jpg

Steve76

2nd Apr 2003, 22:03

Not quite as sensational as TC's :)
But something from the still frozen extremes of Ontario, CA.

Our high tech SAR's protection in place and operational....
...Give me the money....I give you back the helo..... everyone walks away.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/sarssteve76.JPG

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/401searchsteve76.jpg

No!... I am not taking a pi$$, just looking for FOD.

Thomas coupling

13th Apr 2003, 00:38

This one took ages to get by the CAA. They were concerned about hypothermia for the duration of the flight but we explained that we only allowed short transits for close in EMS jobs. We could touch and go when the paramedic could quickly deplane thus saving time at scene. I could then take my time repositioning for a proper legal landing site.
Do you know what...it works:

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/townflight.jpg

Flying Lawyer

15th Apr 2003, 07:38

Thomas coupling
Good pic, and encouraging to see the CAA being so open-minded to new ideas. ;)
If your 'dispensation' turns out to be a 'misunderstanding', I'll represent you free of charge!

FL

sss

3rd May 2003, 03:19

RAF Cranwell do aptitude testing for police air observers.

has anyone done this and what might it entail, and also anything to practise before hand?

thanks.

Hansard

3rd May 2003, 05:16

TSFShadow,

Have you considered the other seat (don't know what they call themselves) in the helicopters which survey pipelines and suchlike? I don't have any personal experience but maybe someone else can comment.

sss

6th May 2003, 23:29

Help,

has anyone done the air observer flight crew aptitude testing at cranwell?

what does it involve any help on thing to practise,

thanks for any help in advance

Ascend Charlie

7th May 2003, 18:51

I would hope they have ALL done it!

MightyGem

7th May 2003, 19:17

sss, Merseyside haven't for some years now. It was seen as an expense that wasn't really necessary. Not sure who does, but I'll post on the Air Support Forum for you. The Air Support Forum is here (http://www.oscar99.org.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=2&DaysPrune=20) but you have to be Police Air Support to register.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/3flypigs.gif

Helinut

8th May 2003, 01:41

The use of the Cranwell tests is patchy - some Units use them and some don't. It often causes controversy when stupid results are indicated. e.g. people who have worked for years as good observers who then "fail" the test.

Of course, it can be used to ease the work of recruiters of how to select a few people from a large group of candidates.

It is basically a watered down military aircrew assessment - can you rub your tummy and pat your nose at the same time stuff + other things too. There may be some reluctance to provide details - these are the sort of games that get easier if you practice them - but maybe that's why you are asking ;) ;) :D

MG is correct that if you can get into the ASU forum that would be the best place to ask - if they will tell you.................

Thomas coupling

8th May 2003, 16:59

You probably won't get into the police forum unless you are already an observer!
I have asked a rep from W Counties ASU to visit this site to discuss it further. I believe they are the only force who use this system.

Elvis21

8th May 2003, 17:26

New to this forum so I am not sure if this question has already been answered, but here goes.

Do the Police recruit from within or do they recruit exisiting pilots. What I am trying to get at is, can you join the Police and then apply to become a pilot with Air Support?

All help gratefully received.

Cheers

Elvis

topcat450

8th May 2003, 18:06

I think you'll find the police pilots are all civilians, the police observers however are police officers.

Police Aviation Services at Staverton/Gloucester airport are the guys to talk to, they seem to be among the main players.

Good luck :ok:

PANews

8th May 2003, 18:09

If its piloting you want you will need to join somewhere else first ... RAF, RN army or Bristow... learn to fly and ask the industry if they want you at least five years from now....

Helinut

8th May 2003, 18:28

Police piloting is done differently in different countries. In the USA many (most) pilots who fly for the police are police officers I understand. In some cases, the police train police officers to fly.

In the UK it is different. Police pilots are already experienced pilots before they start to fly for the police. Many are ex-military but they are civlians (in police terms). The CAA specifies a significant amount of relevant experience, which is usually comfortably exceeded by successful candidates. There were one or two accidents back in the early stages of police aviation in the UK- blamed on inexperienced pilots and pilots not concentrating on flying the aircraft. This is one of the reasons why the CAA make these requirements.

Although still in the minority, more civi trained pilots are employed to work for the police as time goes on, and the supply of ex-military guys is limited. It took me 10 years to get a police job, from when I started flying helicopters. Unless you are able to get the Queen to pay to teach you to fly, it will cost a bundle of time, effort and money BUT I can't think of anything I would rather do...........

john du'pruyting

8th May 2003, 22:30

Just to correct TC, West Mids also use Cranwell, any of their observers would be happy to give you an insight into the tests.

Helinut

9th May 2003, 01:56

My hazy recollection is that one or more of the East Anglia Units also use(d) the Cranwell business fairly recently (can't remember which ones).

sss

9th May 2003, 04:00

thanks guys n girls

after a day trip to raf cranwell all is now in the hands of a greater power.

rotormad

11th May 2003, 00:55

Helinut

Did you go the instructer route or NS..or something else.

What would your advice be to a novice just joining the ranks of commercial aviation who would like to work towards Police/Air Ambulance work in the future, apart from the years of hard graft??

rotormad

11th May 2003, 01:01

I did military aircrew selection at cranwell last year..and passed.. could point you in the right direction, but i think it's too late now anyway by the sound of it, but if you do want to know anything and if i can be of some use just drop me a line. I put an exam paper together for some mates of mine who went for it, they said it really helped and i could probably dig it up for you.

Anyway if i can help just get in touch.

ShyTorque

11th May 2003, 02:06

RM,

I suggest you contact PAS, McAlpines or even your local ASU to ask about the CAA's minimum hours requirements laid down in the Police Air Ops Manual Part 1.

They are quite demanding and without them you don't really have a hope of being accepted. Unfortunate, for keen folk like yourself but it's for good reason, as Helinut has said. The ASU I worked at demanded double the CAA minima.

Helinut

11th May 2003, 02:34

RM,

Any advice must be general - specific advice will depend on personal circumstances.

I went the "instructor" route (pre-JAR FCL); it made sense then. It is all much more difficult (and expensive) post JAR FCL. Most of my time has been spent combining instructing and flying commercially. I did not have the option of flying in the military (far too old)- if you can, you should think of military flying as an option for several reasons.

Although I had it in mind to have a go at police flying, I really wanted to just fly helicopters, rather than particularly fly for the police. I have always enjoyed the flying and that's why I changed careers. Now that I fly for the police, I particularly enjoy the teamwork, and not knowing what is coming next (as well as the flying).

It has cost me a moderate fortune in training costs to get where I am today, and it has cost me even more in lost income. However, I would not want to do anything else, and I manage to earn some extra by doing what I used to do part-time. This was very useful early on, when it was really impossible to earn a living wage purely by flying.

Most helicopter work in the UK is freelance - your personal circumstances need to be able to cope with that.

Minimum Experience for police flying is along the following lines, although it does vary and if not ex-mil you normally need a lot more than the minimum to be considered seriously:

Min Rotary Time 1,500-2,000 hrs
Multi Eng Time >500 hrs
"significant" VCF overland, with some low level experience
Night Flying 50+ hrs
Although most police hele ops are VMC, they are also looking for significant instrument experience, cos inadvertent IMC at night is always a possibility. Civi pilots often have IRs, although they are not kept valid.
In most cases, a significant amount of the time needs to be PIC.
Some ASUs ask for other requirements where relevant too.

zardoz

19th May 2003, 05:23

Oooops - saw this a bit late. Basically, computer game skills will get you through! All done in front of a screen in about two hours.
A bit of a number memory test, some spatial orientation tests, mechanical skills (keep the ball in the circle type tests), usual sort of stuff.
They say that you can't practice for it though, i.e. the program is sophisticated enough to assess your current skill level and adjust itself accordingly. Don't know if that's true or if they are just trying to pysch you out.
Just stay sober, get some sleep and pop those ProPlus. Stay frosty! Good luck.

MightyGem

21st May 2003, 04:25

And the computers are...? Acorn RiscPC's. :D

Letsby Avenue

24th May 2003, 05:06

Why do Bobbies need to be assessed anyway? As SLF they merely have to be able to operate the doors correctly.. In case of difficulty the pilot will do it for them!:ok:

DBChopper

25th May 2003, 03:46

Letsby Avenue,

It's because we are renowned for breaking stuff, I would imagine. As the story goes, two ball bearings each are given to a soldier, a sailor and a police officer and they are asked to make something out of them...

The soldier says, "I've made a marbles-type game."
The sailor says "I've made a model of the planets."
The copper says, "Sorry mate, I lost one and broke the other one..."

Does that explain? ;)

So, SSS, any result?

DBChopper
:cool:

sss

25th May 2003, 10:20

passed the ones from cranwell and made the most of the free lunch, now a bit nearer to becoming 'slf' for a living just hope we have a pleasant hostie on board the aircraft we have to serve refs. ;)

Marco

25th May 2003, 14:01

TC
For your information, WCAOU have never used Cranwell. Preference to have our own in-house aptitude tests.

MightyGem

14th Jul 2003, 09:20

PremiAir, formerly McAlpines Aviation Services, have got the contract for the Surrey ASU, and will require 3 pilots as from next April. The usual ATPL, 2000hrs etc required.

B Sousa

14th Jul 2003, 12:28

Have an old Cop friend who works as a Sgt for Surrey Constabulary. I certainly would like to have someone get him in a Helicopter for a ride and give him a couple grey hairs. I owe him that for getting me totally pi55ed in Ripley one night or was it day.

Letsby Avenue

14th Jul 2003, 18:27

All you need is 500k for a house.............

I wonder wether Surrey will go the same way as the Met, stick with Macs for three years and then go directly employed?

Hedski

14th Jul 2003, 21:50

Would I be correct in saying that up until now Surrey used 3rd Met AS355 at Fairoaks? Does this therefore mean that Surrey will run another AS355 at Fairoaks and Met will re-position theirs elsewhere?

Fortyodd

14th Jul 2003, 23:46

Hedski,
From next April, Surrey will be sending the AS355n back to Lippitts Hill and taking delivery of a shiny new EC135T2. :D

PUP

19th Jul 2003, 04:16

So what's happening to the guys that are at Fairoaks at the moment? Will they be absorbed into the Met set-up at Lippitts Hill? Can't see Maclines (or whatever they're called now) getting many takers at the 'normal' rates of pay bearing in mind the cost of houses round there!

:hmm:

Letsby Avenue

19th Jul 2003, 05:11

All met pilots are relocated back to Lippits Hill. Macs are recruiting three new ones for their pilotage contract with Surrey. Pay is around 39K. (which should be just enough for a 120k garden shed in Basingstoke!)

truncheon meat

19th Jul 2003, 19:50

I have spent some time with the guys down at Surrey and the Obsevrers are a good bunch. They are hoping that at least some of the pilots will stay with them.

It is common knowledge around the bazaars that, unfortunately, the current arrangement has become harder to keep going on a proper footing due to increasing demands on the aircraft and the increasing problems as the aircraft age. Surrey have been very brave and extremely forward looking in deciding to break away and go it alone.

I am sure everyone wishes them well and, having flown with them, I know they are a very professional bunch with high hopes and an incredible level of commitment to their unit and Surrey Constabulary.

Good luck boys.

leee

22nd Jul 2003, 11:58

Hi,

The first post said the would want 2000hrs and ATPL is the ATPL bit normal for police work?? and how much of a pain in the butt is it to get from a CPL point of view???

Cheers Lee...

Autorotate

22nd Jul 2003, 12:01

MightyGem - How come McAlpines changed their name - they run into a slow patch or just a new marketing angle.

You talk about the Met running AS355s, do they still have their 222s or are they long gone.

:E

MightyGem

22nd Jul 2003, 12:15

Leee, the ground exams are the same, you just need more hours(1200 I think). So if you've got the 2000, then you have an ATPL.

Autorotate, anything but a slow patch. McAlpine Aviation Services(part of McAlpine Helicopters) aquired Signature/Air Hanson Helicopters and Signature Aircraft Engineering(based at Blackbush and Denham) last year. Due to various commercial reasons, there had to be a name change.

The Met's 222s are long gone.

Helinut

22nd Jul 2003, 17:29

MG is talking about the old rules for ATPL(H). Since JAR-FCL, a JAR ATPL(H) is a completely different animal requiring an IR and multi-crew time. If police Units required JAR ATPL(H)s, they:

a) would not be able to find enough pilots; and
b) would have to increase what they paid their pilots by a lot.

CAP 612, upon which all PAOMs are based requires a CPL(H) obviously. It then directs ASUs to specify experience requirements.

Once the supply of "old" ATPL(H)s dry up, the PAOMs will change.

leee

23rd Jul 2003, 02:23

cheers for the info, i have 1100 at the mo, i have taken the canadian ATPL exams but need a checkride in a twin pilot machine to get the rating. Kind of thinking if its worth the expense as i may come back to England and i am wondering if having the ATPL would make the conversion any easier???

Cheers Lee...

Helinut

23rd Jul 2003, 03:27

leee,

Be careful about assuming that a Canadian licence will be accepted by the UK CAA - they generally are reluctant to accept a non-JAR licence (other than the flying experience). You really need to ask them about your particular situation. But the rules that apply these days are those in JAR-FCL (as interpreted by our wonderful regulators)! - Good Luck!

leee

23rd Jul 2003, 04:19

I know i will have to convert i was just thinking they might respect an ATPL more than a CPL as far as making me take x amount of written tests??
Something i need to look into- that and finding a good flight school who have experience converting foregn ratings..

CyclicRick

23rd Jul 2003, 04:48

Leee,

I talked to the CAA about converting my German ATPL to a UK-JAA one, and was told I would have to do ALL ground subjects again PLUS a certain amount of hours!
As you can imagine that was a non-starter on grounds of time and money and the slap in the face factor. Luckily the German CAA has just introduced JAA-FCL so all I have to do now is apply for one and wait for the post!!
Bit of a joke methinks :rolleyes:

leee

23rd Jul 2003, 08:14

I had a German friend who got his FAA ATPL thinking this would make life easier but the last i heard he had to do all the exams and an amazing amount of extra flight time ( i cant think of the top of my head so dont want to exagerate ) dont even know if he ended up converting, sounds a pain but i guess have to do what you have to do

Letsby Avenue

24th Jul 2003, 09:33

Hi CyclicRick - Remember me from Soest?....:cool:

LeoX

21st Mar 2004, 14:22

Im in the final fase of being accepted in on police helicopter school, together with the few remaining candidates.

Is there a place on the internet where i can train for such test?

Iq test, stress tests, etc..

In a week im going to the Norwegian airforce for the final pilot tests.
Is there any other way i can prepare?

Im in a hurry- please help me out, this is my last chance to be a professional pilot.

LeoX

LeoX

21st Mar 2004, 14:24

Im in the final fase of being accepted in on police helicopter tests together with the few remaining candidates.

Is the a place on the internet where i can train for such test?

Iq test, stress tests, etc.school.

In a week im going to the Norwegian airforce for pilot
Is there any other way i can prepare?

Im in a hurry please help me out, this is my last chance to be a professional pilot.

LeoX

Bravo 99 (AJB)

21st Mar 2004, 20:51

Try speaking to Paddy Connery Or Mike Kent At Police Aviation Services tel (UK) 01452 857999 ask for them in the training department
or email paddy at [email protected] i dont know if they can help but it may be worth a shot
good luck
Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)

SilsoeSid

22nd Mar 2004, 04:23

Hey AJB,

At least it's a good job you got Mike Kents name correct!! ;)

"Has anyone seen Mike Hunt!!"

I wonder if Paddy can get me Seans autograph!!

(To be spoken in chinese accent);

"This chicken is rubbery"
"AAH, fank you very much."

I'll be surprised if you don't edit your post AJB, as per norm, rather than adding a post with the correct details :{

B Sousa

22nd Mar 2004, 13:38

Leox. You sound as if your a bit stressed already. I think since your in Norway you should meet with local Police Pilots and talk with them. They have been there and know the system and should have a good idea as to what is expected.
If your in the final phases, it would appear you are doing OK.
Relax, open a bottle of Aquavit........

Bravo 99 (AJB)

22nd Mar 2004, 14:41

Silosid you are right I got paddys last name wrong but it was late correct name Paddy Connelly

e-mail [email protected]

apoligies for the confusion

you see I can accept constructive comments. without blowing fuses

Regards
Bravo 99 (AJB)

Skycop

22nd Mar 2004, 18:26

Ah Blavo,

Velly good you collect your rast mistake. What a raugh!

Paddy the pirot, reary ruvvery man. :cool:

With aporogy to the rate Benny Hirr. :p

Max_Chat

27th Jun 2004, 14:25

I have been looking into the qualifications that are required for police and HEMS flying. Is there a CAA rule as to how many hours are required, I have heard 1500 PIC. I have also heard that Ex Mil are prefered because they are more adaptable and have the skills needed. Can anyone give me the definative answers please.

What Limits

27th Jun 2004, 16:27

The experience requirements are laid down in the PAOM Part 1 which is freely available on the CAA website http://www.caa.co.uk/publications/publicationdetails.asp?id=210

As far as the definitive answer goes - don't hold your breath!

Answer these questions

Are you a good egg?
Do you have a police record?
Do you have a licence?
Are you comitted to the Equality and Diversity Policy of the chosen Police Force?

If you can answer correctly then you are in!

Good luck

MightyGem

27th Jun 2004, 17:12

The PAOM Part 1 doesn't actually give the requirements, apart from the need to hold a commercial license and be within the age limitations for Public Transport flying. It refers you to the PAOM Part 2, which is a local document mirroring the Part 1 and is drawn up by individual forces.

The generally accepted minimum qualifications are: 1500hrs on helicopters, of which 500 must be PIC over land in VMC(to include a significant proportion of low flying). A minimum of 50hrs at night with 20hrs PIC.

Remember, 1500hrs is the minimum, with different Police Forces setting their own requirements. While it's true that the vast majority of Police pilots are ex Mil, it's by no means a closed shop. :ok:
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/pigSflymed.gif

Helinut

27th Jun 2004, 23:44

Can I just add to MG's post that most ASUs also require a minimum of 500 hrs twin engine too. MG is right that all these are minima - most police pilots exceed these minima by a lot.

Most police pilots are ex-mil (about 90% I guess). I am not sure about the adaptable/flexible bit - police flying does however bear some similarity to some mil flying. Ex-mil was the easy place for police to look for their pilots, until there were not enough to go around.

In some ways police flying has more in common with charter work- the pax is telling the pilot what to do and where to go!
It also helps if you are familiar with CAA rules and regs, which non-ex-mil are more likely to be. The most important thing is that you can work in a team and that you enjoy the work.

Bertie Thruster

28th Jun 2004, 15:04

It also helps if you don't mind small plastic bottles of petrol being posted through your letterbox and your car paintwork being scratched.

MightyGem

28th Jun 2004, 21:15

Hmm...you obviously live in a rough area, Bertie. :uhoh:

Thomas coupling

28th Jun 2004, 23:46

I'd mind - I'd complain :D

What Limits

29th Jun 2004, 21:08

To the Police ?!

Skycop

29th Jun 2004, 22:50

Get the police helicopter! ;)

Fatigue

10th Jul 2004, 17:28

To all Police pilots out there, I am curious to know what work hours/ shifts you do? How many days on/off, do you fly nights regular or only on special occasions, how many hours per day,etc....
Many thanks, and thank you all for playing your part in making my neighbourhood a little bit safer.
Regards,
Fatigue.

handysnaks

10th Jul 2004, 18:33

It varies from unit to unit
we are limited by the normal 7 day FTL rule although we work a variation on the roster
(the 7 day rule being, no more than 60 flying duty hours (not flying hours) in any seven day period.

we work 12 hour shifts
5 days on
5 days off
5 nights on
1 rest day
4 days off
back to 5 days on etc. ad nauseum adnauseum
No fatigue here:p

Av18tor

10th Jul 2004, 21:02

Fatigue, your'e not related at all to Aerial Anarchist of the Ive been woken up by a Copper Chopper fame would you?

Seems funny, odd question about Flying hours for the ASU and even stranger somewhat related name relating to the previous incident.

Was only wondering.....:E :E :E

Helinut

10th Jul 2004, 23:02

Fatigue,

Police hele pilots work a variety of shifts, depending what the police forces want, what the CAA will allow and how many pilots are in the ASU roster. Shift length between 9 and 12 hours. Patterns vary but are based upon normal FTL rules with one or two special changes, pretty similar to any public transport operator.

Most work day and night (for fairly obvious reasons) to do with the demand for their services) but at least one only works a day shift at present. Some work 24 hours, others slightly less than this.

The rules are in the CAP that is the PAOM Pt1. You can get a pdf copy from the CAA website of Issue 2, although the few changes in it do not come into effect yet.

Unless you explain why you want to know, people may be a bit reluctant to give full details

Helinut

Fatigue

10th Jul 2004, 23:31

Hey there AV18tor,

Absolutely nothing to do with that pratt "aerial anarchist", see what you mean about my name though, just read that other post myself!!!!
I was just curious thats all,as I know air ambulances do not fly at night, I was wondering if the police pilots fly nights regularly or only in special cases.

regards,
Fatigue.

Helinut

11th Jul 2004, 11:17

Fatigue,

OK, in the UK all police helicopters are available to fly at least some of the night. Fundamentally, this is because there is a demand for them from the ground troops, and a history of great results at night. In this respect, the UK is the same as anywhere else.

UK air ambulances in the primary role are not allowed, in practice, to land at the scenes of accidents/casualties at night, so there is not much point in them being available after it gets dark. The exception is (or used to be) the NHS-funded helicopters in Scotland, as they are used for inter-airfield transfers with lights etc. at night

Helicopter HEMS could be equipped to do landings at night off-airfield (IFR fit, means of checking the site at night etc.) but it all costs extra that the charities that pay for HEMS cannot afford, and would reduce the spare payload, so pushing them to bigger and more expensive helicopters that they cannot afford........