View Full Version : Another "Integrated Students Only" rant
Like many others I had to earn my money whilst training, modular. It's quite upsetting to see the following:
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First Officers
First Officers need a minimum total time of 1,000 hours, with commercial jet or EFIS turboprop experience. If you are type rated, 300 hours on type is desirable but not essential.
We will also consider low hours First Officers who have completed an integrated pilot training course and a structured jet orientation bridging course.
Ideally, you will have a UK or JAR licence, and you must have the right to work and live in the EU.
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Basically, "We only take students from Oxford, with huge debts or very rich parents".
What difference does it make? Modular or Integrated?!? Does integrated make you a better pilot? It's quite pathetic.
Whilst training, modular, I have gained experience as a ramp agent, working in crewing and now, working in flight planning for a large charter airline. Surely this counts for something but I'm denied the chance of applying to the above airline because they only take integrated low hour students?
Isn't there anything we can do about this?
haughtney1
7th Aug 2004, 08:03
OBK check your PMs mate
Totally agree with you OBK.... I would nevertheless be interested in explaination regarding this prospective.
Who put out that advert?!
I'm sad to say it's Channel Express/Jet2. It's on their web site.
www.channel-express.co.uk
They never learn in this b****y industry.
Never mind, OBK you should apply and explain to them that modular and integrated are both structured courses.
As for us, the "self-improver air taxi pilot types", we'll soon be forbidden to even touch a landmower at this rate.
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Hope these two threads may be of use and there are many more for you to research. Things are changing and you will see people are doing things to try and alter this state of affairs which is probably not so common as you think.
BACX and I believe BMI Regional have recently recruited both modular and integrated, low houred, and guys with plenty of hours.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135203
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128659
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Airlines may be chaning the "minimum requirements" on there websites/adverts to now read "Frozen ATPL" instead of "Structured frozen ATPL" but it still worries me that this is just to please us modular guys. What happens in the back of the intereviewers mind might be totally different, they probably still prefer the integrated student for whatever reason.
A friend of mine, who completed the modular course was invited to BMI Regional for an interview...didn't pass it for unknown reasons but those he met who did get through are wealthy Oxford graduates.
Shame really, he was a quality guy with an outstanding flying record. I guess he was thinking too practical when he thought "£60K for an integrated course, or £35K for modular?"
Surely we would all agree what the simplest, most efficient solution is? I suppose these airlines don't want pilots who are this clever. No offence.
OBK
Some make it some don't, that is a sad fact, but I am fully aware that BACX and also Flybe have definitely taken modular guys. I also think BMI Regional have as well but am not 100% on that.
At the end of the day, half the battle is if they think you will get on well with the other occupant of the flight deck, if they don't then I wouldn't think you stand a chance, be you modular or integrated.
The good thing is that it appears things are looking up. I am receiving e mails re job vacancies every day from Flight International and although they are for the experienced pilots that means things are moving which will help the low houred guys no matter what their background.
aaaaa
tonker
7th Aug 2004, 20:52
We were sat in the cafe the other day, some of us over 1000hrs some just under and we genuinly discussed what would happen if we binned the log book and license and did an intergrated course at one of the schools.
Wouldn't it be gauling to receive an offer for interview straight out with 200 hrs or so.
Just a thought we had. Anyway back to the porn goodnight:ok:
carbonfibre
8th Aug 2004, 10:16
Its a sad day that they started this all again, I struggled like many to get through my modular courses, with money and time.
They have obviously struck up a deal with them!! Its a shame because I have met the AC Manager at Channex and they are a nice outfit, 300 hrs on modular or intergrated it is the same qualification.
Hope they take a look at us then, keep the rant going have fun everyone:ok:
Northern Highflyer
16th Aug 2004, 09:44
Taken from the GB Airways page on ppjn.com
Cadet - Jerez or Oxford ab initio graduates with 200 hours.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :{
Keep everything in perspective.
I would say most pilots in employemnt today will have paid for their own training. What percentage are ab-initio versus modular I don't know, but I would imagine the majority are modular or from the old 'self-improver' route.
Therefore while such adverts are infuriating to read, all markets are driven by supply and demand. The supply of ab-initio's is always going to be less than the modular graduates.
Don't become despondent.