Bristow North Sea

[maxvne]

I have heard that on the 1st August Bristows will inform people that there services are no longer required,30 Captains are supposed to be the targets which to me will not work unless they plan to up grade co-pilots to commanders as they are cheaper.Rumour has it that they will be asked back on a contract basis as the parent company OLOG'S policy is hire and fire attitude as the contracts require pilots no contracts get rid of pilots.They plan to dismiss the pilots on the day with 3 months salary in advance untill futher payment is sorted out.
Has anyone heard anything else

[cjsteeb]

OLOG's operation in the Gulf of Mexico, Air Logistics, just went union for the flight crews, with substantial raises for the flight crews. This could explain the Bristow layoffs.

[leading edge]

Max

You may be right. Bristow have just lost BP Amoco on the Southern North Sea which accounted for at least 2 S76A+s. Combined with their recent Aberdeen losses, they must have a big surplus of pilots and engineers. It is a shame for the guys and girls involved as the Amoco contract has been theirs for 34 years and they have done a good job of looking after them.

The problem is that now Bristow is half owned by OLOG, there has been a lack of attention to customer needs and too much concentration on the mighty dollar. Whilst the dollars count, you have to have management who are committed to the customer and give them what they want. When you have held a contract for so long, there is an enormous temptation to change for changes sake and it is only by continued innovation and attention to detail that you can hope to win the tender again. Seems Bristow were competitive when it came to Shell last year but have since lost the plot. Unfortunately, they have lost some experienced commercial managers recently. The sad part is that some of those guys were right on the button with what needed to be done but the management in Head Office chose to ignore them. Opinions are not welcomed unless they concur with those of senior management who would appear to have lost touch with their customers. It is sad to see a once great company slowly falling apart and I just hope that the good guys get employment with Bond/BIH who have won the contract.

[TipCap]

I hope the sentiment in your last para comes to fruition, Leading Edge. There are quite a few of us living on a knife-edge at the moment.

[PVR]

Sounds very familiar to what's happening down at HEM'S in London at the moment.

[leading edge]

Tip Cap

The sentiment is genuine, I have many friends there who I have known for over 15 years. They are a great team of guys who have been hampered by poor head office management.

[barsandstars]

Hey, this has been on the go for a few days now; and no response!
We hear that there are 32 captains and about the same number of licensed engineers to go from Scottish bases. I hear that no co-pilots os senior first officers are affected.
Is it also true that management have told Bristow personnel that there is no need to cover contingencies like ad-hoc flights, as they are not guaranteed. Well, if I knew ad-hocs were guaranteed I would have bought a helicopter years ago and now be living the life of Riley on my profits.
I think Brintel have shown that ad-hoc works, so come on Bristow get a bit of helicopter know how again and attack the market. Some people who have worked at the sharp end would maybe be a bit of fresh air to the suits in Redhill (wherever that is).

[leading edge]

I am in here most days and its the first time I've seen it.

[Attila]

This is true. So far, management is talking around the subject, but it is happening

[tigerpilot]

Yes, guys, it is true.

Voluntary redundancy has been offered, with an enhanced(?) package being offered to those who signed up before midnight Friday 6th. Now that that list is closed, they will either accept volunteers on a reduced package, or make compulsory reundancies at the end of the current week. The package revolves around statutory minima - suprise suprise!

The voluntary side has been badly handled (another suprise!) with little information being available to the staff (eg pension info), and contrary to the standard "There will be no special deals" cry, wheeling and dealing has been going on fast and furiously, and it would appear that there have been plenty of special deals struck. These will all come out of the wash within the next 7 days as those who have not negotiated their own special deal leave the fold on Friday 13th (appropriate date!).

Communication between the management and the Employees Representative Committee (which was only set up because legislation required it!) has been difficult, with certaim management memebers being unavailable to answer queries, as the bewitching hour on Friday was approaching. Intransigence on the part of management seems to have been their method of negotiation. The American influence?

The people targeted have been the most expensive employees, ie the long servers with the experience and seniority, which clearly demonstrates that there is no longer any form of career available to helo jocks in the UK (probably the world now), all the work available will be contract based, and guys will have to make their own provision for pensions, etc., etc..

This message should have got home to the younger guys (and gals) in the industry, but if it has not, the message which you need to get into your head now, loud and clear, is that the future is bleak! If you have an alternative, exercise it sooner rather than later (before you have kids, etc.), or if you do not have an alternative yet, start working at one, TODAY!

[Captain Catastrophy]

None of this will come as a great surprise to anyone who has been in the industry for any length of time. If anything things are getting worse and I agree with the correspondent who suggested bailing out while you can. there are just a few of points I want to make namely:

1 If the rumours are true then most of the top end of BHL will go taking a huge tranche of experience with them which - though it will provide promotion for the next generation - is disaster for any company and is contrary to what most of the oil companies believe (?) they are paying for.

2 Those who may benefit from this should remember that they wil be the next most expensive sector of the company to be 'hit'

3 Those pilots made redundant will probably find themselves contracting for one or other of the companies in Aberdeen - is this the end game of the employers - remember the industry is largely controlled by North American based interests who are by and large contractor based

4 Ours is the only industry in which a move to another company means a demotion rather than improving one's prospects. Whilst this has been agreed in the past to protect employees in a company, perhaps it is time that the unions and employees had a rethink as it may well be a way to improve our lot in the long term

[leading edge]

As usual, its the guys and gals doing the job at the pointy end who suffer the blunt end of the baseball bat. I hope things work out for you guys. It is a shame that there are not some compulsory redundancies among BHLs fat cat and inept management who, through their lack of listening to the customer's wants have caused this problem in the first place. It won't worry them though, there will still be a new Jaguar for them in the car park when the fuss has died down.

There was once a time when BHL didn't hire and fire people but concentrated on getting new business to soak up any surplus crews, but that was also in the days when they were British and not owned by the .... outfit who control the purse strings today.

You see, Bristow Management, its not just numbers you're playing with, its real people with real families who need to earn a real living. Maybe you shpuld think about that as you step into the new Jag which you'll get for cuttng costs and doing what Olog say.

[tigerpilot]

Well said Leading Edge! My wife says that you are being a bit harsh, but I think that you have hit the nail right on the head.

Pity that somebody does not hit some of them on the head, too!

Oh, to have a Jaguar parked downstairs, and a few million in share options!

[thechopper]

its us, the pilots that don't get our act together. as long as everybody thinks of his own budget, and pensioners are taking jobs to enhance their (3rd divorce) screwed-up life things will not change. helicopter salaries will never be airline level and who denies that should go plank.

[barsandstars]

Things are certainly looking bleak. With the imminent list of people to be made redundant by BHL, including a very high proportion of captains, times are going to be hard for some.
Surely we don't want to dig the hole any deeper by accepting contract work from a competing company. Rumour has it that around half a dozen pilots are already working part-time over the North Sea. Contract (freelance) pilots only take away a full time position from themselves or another pilot.
Pilots who are laid off must get together as a group or go through someone like BALPA for advice. Please don't make contracting an acceptable way of life for pilots working in the North Sea.

[leading edge]

People

Contracting will become a way of life on the North Sea if nothing else is done soon, because everybody has to eat.

The key is for you guys to act with BALPA and to sort this pay and conditions thing out once and for all.

Barsandstars, you have the right aproach but you need ACTION from your fellow colleagues otherwise, the whole North Sea Pilot thing will go contract within 2 years and you will all be submitting competitive tenders for what used to be your own jobs. Pensions will be something that is discussed in the cockpit..."Do you remember the old days when we used to be on staff and have a pension plan..."

Get together and ACT guys, it may be your last chance to save your jobs...

Once all the redundancies have gone through, your hand will be weakened because there will be almost enough contractors to keep the whole thing going making any industrial action futile.

[barsandstars]

BHL just fired (officially made redundant) the BHL BALPA rep.

[leading edge]

Seems if you're a Captain and over 53 then you are in the firing line. BHL's BALPA rep must fall into that category. Elect a younger rep immediately and make big plans!!

Here in Oz, you can't make people redundant because of their age, the Unions normall see that it's last in first out although there are some exceptions.

The North Sea should have been stronger in terms of Unions 10 years ago, BALPA should heve forced the recognition issue harder. It may have averted some of the obvious age discrimination being seen in Bristow today.

How Bristow can go from being the best to the worst in a few short years should be a business study unit at University! It has been a spectacular fall from the No 1 position and can be blamed squarely on the recent management.

[Hopper]

As an ex ABZ rotorhead, I was wondering what has happened in the last week ref redundancies etc?
Hope it's not as bad as it looks.

[tigerpilot]

It has now all happened, but very few have actually had their final P45, etc., as there were plenty of special deals being done.

Special deals in BHL, I hear you ask? Oh no, the management would say, not unless you arganise it yourself!

A conservative estimate re the pilot loss is that with the 20% odd loss of N. Sea pilots, the loss of experience is probably in the order of double that. Quite scary, and the oil companies have apparently not said a dickie bird.

I strongly believe that there are bigger forces at work here!

I'm glad that I am out, and will have to change my monicker to extigerpilot.

Good luck to all who are left. You are now in the firing line! Especially if you are over 50, or are a senior captain (watch that disappear very soon!).

[Attila]

My sympathy lies with all who have given much over the years to this company, only to be slapped in the face. Company loyalty – what’s that???

The fat cat board members have lined their own pockets over the years by selling the company on, taking a pay-off and retiring, only to have another chief executive come along and do the same thing. Eventually, you kill off the golden goose. If they had put more effort into chasing contracts, and not into swelling their own bank accounts, the company would still have a future.

This company has gone through 5 batches of redundancy, 1983 – remember that one, the Laurence Bristow special – 1992, 1995, 1997 and 1999. We never saw the writing on the wall and were naïve enough to think it wouldn’t happen to us.

If I were a young captain, sfo or fo in this company, I would be seeking alternate employment right now. Repay this company the same way it has repaid the outgoing senior captains

[InflowRoll]

Recent - and not so recent - events at Bristow have highlighted the North Sea helicopter companies ability to run roughshod over their workforce; to hire and fire at will, change rosters at short notice, impose restrictions on our private lives, the list goes on.
So what can we do about it? Join Balpa? Many North Sea pilots already have, many have not. One thing is certain, we as pilots, must have input with regard to employment terms and conditions. Balpa may be the only medium that will give us that opportunity. Whether you agree with unionisation or not, it may be the only way forward.
Something must be done; it may not be to late.

[tail rotor drift]

The pay and conditions will never improve while those reaching their retirement age are virtualy begging the companies for work at low rates and poor conditions. They are undermining us all.

[Captain Catastrophy]

I am very sorry to hear of the imminent redundancy of our Balpa rep who has put in a lot of time and effort - often thankless - on our behalf over the years. I wuold like to say Thank you on behalf of us all.
My worry is who is going to pick up the baton - the BHL management are well aware that having laid off 90% of the people who are prepared to argue our cause very few will be willing to do so as they wish to protect their careers. I hope that we will now stand up and be counted en-masse instead of hiding behind one or two individuals. Gentlemen, our future depends on it.

[barsandstars]

All is not lost!
Oil companies are seriously considering my bid for single pilot operations to North Sea offshore platforms.
Candidates who are current on R-4s, Skeeters,
Widgeons, and S-55s (piston version), should
send resumes to this page.
Passengers will just adore you when they know what's going on!

[MaxNr]

Sorry to hear things are so bad for all you Bristows guys. No one likes to read about so many redundancies, and I`m sure theres no easy answer to this one. I`m in no position to offer advice I`m afraid, as I now live and work in Canada...Best of luck...MaxNr

[VortexGenerator]

Any news on how proposed redundancies are to affect Southern North Sea?

[tigerpilot]

Yes!

Your turn is coming in September or October.

Good Luck.

[maxvne]

The rumour has it that there is a January review for a April lay off. anyone heard anything? I presume this means all the new HP cadets will be starting to worry or will they as they can be released out of there bonds and go fixed wing if they choose.

[212man]

Interesting rumour.... what's it based on? Is Bristow now still grossly overmanned following it's recent cuts? I can't see it myself. From where I'm looking there is definately no room for further cuts.

Maybe they'll start at the bottom this time and we'll have a company of 35 year olds....till they go fixed wing.



------------------

[maxvne]

Apparantly yes it will be co-pilots as they have anything from 10 to 18 on standby some days which cant be good. Also they have released some people to Scotia helicopters.

[Bell+]

Is there anyone left to make redundant? Still, at least BALPA can be relied on...like the last time...

[Cyclic Hotline]

From the ABZ P&J.
More jobs to go at Bristow
by Steve Sinclair and David Perry

More jobs are to be lost at Bristow Helicopters after the company announced a major review of resources and staffing yesterday.

Bristow management has refused to disclose how many may face the axe in Aberdeen and Shetland, saying it is too soon to know. The figure could be about 100, as the company's trade has slumped heavily over the past year.

The news came as a shock to many. It is only 10 months since the company shed 99 workers.

Some 500 workers split between Aberdeen and Scatsta, in Shetland, are under threat. Some were informed last week of the latest consultation process which, the company says, is the result of current estimates of future demand for helicopter services.

Ten months ago, Bristow predicted a 35% decrease in North Sea activity.

The likelihood of further job losses comes hard on the heels of a series of major disappointing announcements which have affected Scotland, ranging from retail-clothing giant C&A – 48 jobs lost locally and 4,800 nationally – to major UK employer British Aerospace (losing 3,500) and Blue Circle (losing 350).

The Manufacturing, Science and Finance union regional officer, Gordon Casey, said he was aware that the company was going to be doing the review and was confident the union would work with the company.

He said: "We have a partnership agreement with Bristow and will be working through that to mitigate any impact and hopefully ensure that any redundancies are voluntary."

Staff at Bristow said they were completely in the dark regarding areas under review but added that the official consultation was not to begin until next month.

Bristow chief executive Keith Chanter said: "We will do all we can to minimise job losses, but there will inevitably be some."

Aberdeen Central Labour MP Frank Doran urged the North Sea oil industry to be more sensitive to the needs of the helicopter industry because of safety issues.

"If these are engineering jobs that affect the safety factor, I would be very concerned."

Mr Doran said helicopter firms faced the same squeeze as other offshore contractors imposed by the industry when the price of crude collapsed and complained that the squeeze has not yet been lifted despite the soaring price of oil.

"What is happening is a sad result of the way in which the oil industry is run because companies like this have virtually no negotiating power and have to accept the rules laid down by the big oil giants."

A ballot conducted by management at Scotia Helicopters has done little to resolve a grievance between the company and its 700 employees.

A merger some time ago between former rivals British International Helicopters and Bond has left sections of the workforce with large differences in rates of pay.
Earlier this month, staff unanimously rejected management plans on the harmonisation of wages. The dispute took a fresh turn ten days ago when management wrote to all employees outlining its harmonisation proposals and asked workers to vote for or against its offer.

Replies were to be signed, dated and returned by June 14.

Backed by the MSF union, the workers were urged to bin the company's ballot papers and reject the offer.

MSF's Gordon Casey said the company ballot had gone ahead and had achieved a 40% return.

"The company say this means four out of five voted to accept the company's proposals. That means 112 people voted Yes and 25 voted No.

"It also means 209 of the workforce did not vote at all – 60% have taken no part in the ballot.

"They are saying this is an overwhelming endorsement of their proposals.

"Obviously our view is different, when 60% follow our advice and take no part."

He added that representatives in the joint trade union committee at the company have been collecting letters from workers who wish to let the company know they don't accept its proposals.

Mr Casey added: "At the moment, they have 163 people in Aberdeen who are against the plan. What we need to see now is whether the company will pay any heed to the letters from these individuals."

A spokesman for Scotia Helicopters said the ballot was an overwhelming Yes vote for the company's proposals, adding: "So far, there has been no further representation from the unions. The ball is in their court."

[Taff Missed]

Bad news indeed. Particularly in the wake of recent events on the NS.

I may be accused of taking a simplistic view here, but why did the MSF 'urge their members to bin the ballot papers' if they were so sure the proposal would be voted against anyway? Surely it would have been a better idea to tell their members to vote against it and send a positive message to t'management.

Just discarding a ballot paper i.e. not using your vote, seems a bit silly in these circumstances and smacks of old union c.1970's. It also makes the ballot exercise a complete waste of time and money.

-------------

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


[This message has been edited by Taff Missed (edited 23 June 2000).]

[CRS]

Such a great shame for the unfortunate employees. Bristows had (hopefully still does)a wealth of experienced professionals. Unfortunately they have been shafted over the years by a totally useless management team (I use the word loosely) who buried their heads in the sand. Their total ineptitude has unfortunately yet again been dumped on their staff. I bet the directors still have all their flash cars at the concrete carrier.

[Special 25]

Don't blame it all on the management - Unless you are refering to their inability to stand up to the Americans.

An oil worker friend of mine was in the States recently and gave me the 'low-down' on their operation. After walking across Louisiana swamp to get to a run down shed (Departure Lounge) he was at least slightly impressed to get a safetly video on the S-61. The pilot then walked in (Veitnam Vet in mechanics overalls) and ushered them out to a Bell 412 and off they went !

Maybe if we adopt these sort of safetly protocols over here, we could save the level of money CHC and OLOG are looking for ???

[Cyclic Hotline]

ABZ P&J. 4 July 2000
Bristow reshape puts 80 jobs at risk

by Leslie Kraft-Burke
Bristow Helicopters confirmed yesterday that up to 80 jobs will be lost in Aberdeen and Shetland as a result of the company's restructuring.

A company spokesman was not certain how many staff would be made redundant until the end of the month-long review process, but he said as many redundancies as possible would be voluntary.

Scottish National Party MSPs in the North-east are concerned at possible further job losses and safety issues if BP Amoco goes ahead with plans to replace stand-by vessels with helicopters.

Bristow revealed yesterday that, in addition to the staff reduction, it intended to trim its fleet of helicopters from 17 to 12. The company maintains that will not result in a reduction of aircrew.

A Manufacturing, Science and Finance union spokesman said that could change by the end of the group's review process.

Bristow told union officials and staff that it anticipated making a substantial loss on its operations next year. It emphasised that urgent remedial action was required.

Del Tarn, employees' convener for the MSF union, said of the planned job losses: "We are disappointed at the numbers and will be trying hard to reduce them."

Bristow has 500 workers split between Aberdeen (445) and Scatsta in Shetland (55).

The staffing cuts will be in the firm's engineering, passenger logistics, traffic, baggage, freight, ramp and flight operations departments.

Changes brought about by the restructuring are to be implemented by mid-August.

The firm, which is one of the UK's largest helicopter operators, predicted a 35% decrease in its North Sea activity as it shed 99 workers about 10 months ago.

Bristow also faces legal action from 13 people claiming unfair dismissal from the company. The former workers were laid off from the Aberdeen (operation?).
A company spokesman confirmed that litigation regarding that matter was ongoing.

Three SNP MSPs – Brian Adam, Richard Lochhead and Andrew Welsh – were meeting BP Amoco officials to discuss its proposed offshore safety arrangements.
Mr Adam said the meeting was productive but inconclusive.

"The jury is still out on whether stand-by fleets can be replaced with a helicopter service."

"We did, however, receive a commitment from BP that it would meet with the Emergency Response and Rescue Vessel Association (ERRVA) which, up to now, they have not said they would do."

He added that it did not appear that BP's helicopter plan could yet cope with administering adequately to an immediate incident offshore.

While the ERRVA estimates the BP plan could lay up 129 vessels and put at risk 3,000 jobs, Mr Adam said BP's estimates involved a net reduction of 200 jobs.

He added that that would involve an initial reduction of 400 to 500 jobs, but the creation of about 200 positions.

Mr Adam said that BP was to answer some of the MSPs' questions in writing.

Aberdeen Central Labour MP Frank Doran is calling a meeting of safety vessel owners to hear their reaction to BP Amoco's proposals for the helicopter-based service.

He said last night he hoped other city MPs would join him for the meeting on Friday week in Aberdeen and made it clear that, although he wants BP Amoco's case heard, he is backing neither side.

Mr Doran said: "I want to hear from the individual companies how they are going to be affected and encourage a dialogue with them.

"I am not supporting the vessel owners or BP Amoco – but I do want to see improvements in North Sea safety."

The BP scheme has run into opposition since the oil operator announced plans at the end of May to overhaul its North Sea safety cover.

Since then, the company has been conducting a consultation process with the workforce.

A BP Amoco spokesman said the plan was still in its conceptual stages.

[Hawkwind]

I heard today in crewroom gossip that 25 pilots are included in this total, is this correct?

[Cyclic Hotline]

Quote from OLOG Annual report.
To view the current annual report in it's entirety; http://biz.yahoo.com/e/000629/olog.html

Bristow's operating margin declined from 5.2% in fiscal 1999 to 0.4% in the fiscal 2000. These low margins are due to the reduced utilization and pricing pressures discussed above and the terminated contracts and related restructuring charges of $5.0 million recognized in the second quarter of fiscal year 2000. The restructuring charges were incurred to adjust Bristow's staffing to the current volume of work and entailed a reduction in the North Sea workforce by 19%. Absent these charges, Bristow's operating margin for fiscal 2000 would have been 2.2%. The Company expects to realize at least $7 million in combined annual salary savings from the aforementioned redundancy program. In addition, further cost reductions, including additional employee terminations, renegotiating contracted maintenance services and revisions to employee benefit plans, are being pursued as management works to establish a more cost effective and competitive organization. However, given the significant reduction in North Sea flight activity, it is likely that Bristow's results and operating margins will be adversely affected for sometime absent increased activity in the North Sea market.

Quote:-

Cash flows used in investing activities were $64.4 million, $13.0 million, and $54.2 million for 2000, 1999 and 1998, respectively. During 2000, the Company received proceeds of $10.3 million primarily from thirteen separate disposals of aircraft. During the same period, the Company purchased seven Bell 407's for $9.4 million; four S-61's for $10.9 million, two S-76's for $4.5 million, 5 Bell 412's for $19.8 million and three Super Puma's for $20.4 million. In addition, the Company placed $4.3 million into escrow, included in other assets as of March 31, 2000, for the purchase of three S-76 aircraft. Subsequent to year-end, the Company purchased two Bell 412's for $10 million. The Company has no other material capital commitments outstanding. The majority of these aircraft purchases were made to fulfill customer contract requirements. The three Super Pumas and two S76s referenced above were acquired in anticipation of international expansion. Capital expenditures during 1999 of $19.2 million included one AS332L-Super Puma and three Bell 407's. The Company used existing cash to purchase these aircraft. Deposits on two new AS332L-Super Pumas made during the third quarter of 1999 were refunded to the Company during the fourth quarter of 1999 after the Company decided to lease rather than purchase these aircraft (see Note F in the "Notes to Consolidated Financial Statements"). During 1998, the Company acquired five aircraft (including four AS332L-Super Pumas, which had previously been leased by Bristow under short-term operating leases) for $32.3 million. The Company used existing cash and incurred an additional $20.0 million of 7.9% fixed rate financing that amortizes over five years to complete this transaction. In addition to the financed aircraft, the Company used existing cash to purchase 13 Bell 407's, four Sikorsky S-76's and one Bell 214ST in 1998.

[400 Hertz]

Bristow Pilots are not in the frame at the moment...watch out for the 18th July.

------------------
400 Hertz but DC is easy

[Cyclic Hotline]

Bristow jobs blow not as bad as first feared ABZ P&J

by Steve Sinclair

Bristow Helicopters announced yesterday that 44 jobs are to go through compulsory redundancies following its latest review of staffing and operations.

But the expected announcement was not as bad as had been feared.

Indications a month ago were that up to 80 jobs were at risk, split between Bristow's bases in Aberdeen and Scatsta, Shetland.

The smaller redundancy figure is due to Bristow negotiating a new engineering contract with Scotia Helicopters.

The bulk of the compulsory redundancies – 42 – will be in Aberdeen and the other two at Scatsta. The contract with Scotia involves on-line and heavy maintenance engineering work for up to 17 personnel, who will remain Bristow employees.

Bristow chief executive Keith Chanter said: "While we very much regret having to review our operations and staffing numbers, the new contract is the result of our determination to maximise the potential for our highly-skilled staff and specialist workforce and minimise job losses.

"We will not be able to finalise the details of the restructuring until the consul-tation process is completed next month, but we are encouraged by the constructive discussions that are continuing with individuals and the MSF."

MSF union convener at Bristow, Del Tarn, said: "The reduction from the original estimate of between 60 and 80 down to 44 is good news basically.

"We are still working fairly hard through our consultation process to reduce numbers further and will continue to do so, as the consultation process has about two weeks to run.

"We have certain proposals still to make, depending on working practices, as there is still a certain amount of re-structuring going on following the move of people to work for Scotia.

"We will be looking at areas where we might consider there are not enough personnel involved."

He confirmed that negotiations with Bristow had gone quite well and had been correct throughout.

He added: "Taking it in the context that we were originally told between 60 and 80 people might be made redundant and we are now down to 44 compulsory redundancies, it is not as bad as we had feared – but I am not leaping around.

"It is still 44 too many of us, friends and colleagues."

The losses will occur mainly in engineering and terminal services.

The Bristow review was prompted by a decrease in activity offshore and a 35% reduction in the company's North Sea operations in the last 12 months.

Anticipated future demand for helicopters amounts to 12 aircraft, compared with the current level of 17.

The company has also forecast that it will make a substantial cumulative loss on North Sea operations in the coming year.

Bristow employs 445 people in Aberdeen, 55 at Scatsta and 25 at Sumburgh. The MSF union represents 375 employees.

Bristow says the review and redundancies will not in any way compromise the company's absolute priority of continuing to ensure the highest standards of safety in its operations.

[nimrod456789]

'Too old' helicopter pilots unfairly sacked
Feb 10, Press & Journal

by Alan Young

Five experienced helicopter pilots have won claims of unfair dismissal.

An employment tribunal has unanimously ruled that Bristow Helicopters should pay compensation to the pilots, who were made redundant solely on the basis of age after the firm lost major contracts in 1999.

James Senior, of Kintore; Robert McGregor, of Newtonhill; Julian Allen, of Banbury, Oxfordshire; Hans Holle, of Kintore; and Ian Parfitt, of Keig, near Alford, had all worked at the firm's Aberdeen base.

The tribunal panel dismissed the Bristow claim that the dismissals had been fair on the grounds of redundancy. It said no reasonable employer could have used age as the sole basis for redundancy. The amount of compensation is still to be decided.

The ruling followed hearings in October, November, and last month.

Last night, Captain Holle, 56, who worked for Bristow for more than 25 years, said he was delighted with the tribunal's decision.

"I'm certainly delighted after having to wait for such a long time," he said. "The selection criterion was age – but it wasn't really age. It was a cost-saving exercise as well."

Capt Holle, originally from Germany, said he was now retired.

Bristow is one of the largest helicopter companies in the world, operating 250 aircraft across the globe. It is mainly concerned with offering services to the offshore industry from its Aberdeen base.

The company has about 150 pilots, the tribunal heard, along with operational and administrative staff.

In November, 1998, staff were told that BP Exploration, one of Bristow's major clients, had decided not to renew its contract, due to expire at the end of July. It had been awarded to Bond Helicopters.

Contracts with Mobil and Amoco were also subsequently lost, leading to a need for redundancies.

The normal Bristow retirement age for pilots is 58 and the company decided that age would be the sole criterion in pilot redundancies.

In August, 1999, captains Senior, Allen and Holle were informed they were on the compulsory redundancy list. Bristow claimed Capt Parfitt had opted for voluntary redundancy and Capt McGregor had still to be approached.

The employment tribunal decided later that captains Parfitt and McGregor had been dismissed by Bristow. Seven compulsory redundancies were confirmed on September 9, 1999.

Capt Allen, 54, who was also in the RAF until joining Bristow in 1990 as a helicopter instructor, had said voluntary redundancy was not a realistic option for him. He had felt reasonably secure because of his age and the fact that Bristow had spent £10,000 relocating him to Aberdeen and retraining him. He described Bristow's approach as arrogant.

Capt Holle, who had worked for the firm since 1974, said he had not considered himself at risk of redundancy because of his years of service.

He said he had been unaware of the possibility of voluntary redundancy and felt that he had been treated unfairly.

Capt McGregor, 57, suffered a back injury in July, 1999, and was signed off work. He did not return to Bristow before his dismissal. He said he had had no option but to take voluntary redundancy but had told Bristow it was neither fair or reasonable.

Capt Parfitt, 57, also ex-RAF, had requested early retirement earlier in the year. But Bristow had treated it as a request for voluntary redundancy.

The tribunal ruled that the cases of captains McGregor and Parfitt were different from the other three.

"The absence of warning and consultation with captains McGregor and Parfitt and the failure by Bristow to consider alternative employment for them before they were dismissed was not in accordance with equity ... and rendered their dismissals unfair," it said.

It added: "No reasonable employer could have used age as the sole criterion and, accordingly, the dismissals of Capts Senior, Allen and Holle were also unfair."

The tribunal invited Bristow to agree compensation with its former employees.

ends

[leading edge]

What an excellent ruling by the court, it is time that the arrogant management of the NS helicopter companies got what they deserve.

Lets hope that this is the beginning of a fight back by the workforce which will at last see the conditions and salaries where they should be. I know many of these guys and some have all contributed many years of their lives to Bristow. BALPA should be caitaliising on this decision and starting some unified action while things are on a roll.

What should the compesation be? What about the equivalent of the salaries they would have earned from the day they were dismissed until their normal retirement age at 58 plus some extra compensation for pain and suffering plus all legal costs.

A mere token award by the court would only serve to cheapen their decision. This case must act as a future deterrent so that Bristow and Scotia and the oil companies at last start to respect the pilot and engineer workforce and treat them with some respect and dignity.

Management, are you listening now??

LE

[Night Sun]

"No reasonable employer could have used age as the sole basis for redundancy."

Sums them up nicely I feel.

Night Sun :)

[100%RPM]

I've read some comments about what BALPA has to do to get decent deals in the superb position North Sea pilots are right now.

But who is BALPA at Bristow and Scotia?

Are they the two or three reps trying to make their best to pass the messages across without getting the positive response they need?

Are they the bunch of pilots that despite the situation keep selling their days off to get a few extra coins (and while in the planning room they keep complaining about the lack of action BALPA has shown)? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Or the ones who have decided to show the companies how seriously we are taking this particular chance by working to rule and withdrawing our goodwill until we obtain the deals we deserve (and we know we can get)? :mad:

May 2001... What are you prepared to do for BALPA (for us) as BALPA member?

Summer 2001... use it or lose it. Opportunities like this one won't be back in many years! :)

[roundwego]

You are obviously still wet behind the ears 100%rpm. "Working to rule" is a concept which died with the mining industry. Above all it hurts our customers who are our life blood. If you think you can hold the oil industry to ransom you might as well pretend you are King Canute. Grow up and join the real world. Apart from anything else, what rules are you not already working to?

What BALPA CAN do is to responsibly put forward the facts to the oil industry in a constructive manner which will take our customers with us and not alienate them. The oil industry does not fully understand the problem. BALPA needs to go to UKOOA (the oil companies representative body) and put forward the facts as they are and the consequences of the skills shortage if nothing is done. BALPA needs to be seen to be on UKOOA's side if there is any hope of improving the situation.

If BALPA acts in a responsible and constructive way then we have a much better chance of improving the working conditions and consequently retaining and attracting a quality workforce (and a quality management).

Lets not fall back into the 1970's style of union vs employer conflicts - it never did anyone any good.

[Variable Load]

roundwego

Spot on IMHO. There's a lot to be gained by a sensible approach to the issues that we and the industry face. The problems are obvious and should even be within the grasp of the aviation "experts" that the oil companies employ. BALPA should be leading that debate because it removes any commercial considerations, something Bristow and Scotia management won't be able to avoid.

Let's hope they do it and we all help them in the process.

Variable Load

[100%RPM]

Roundwego and Variable Load:

Thanks for the feedback.

Your ideas look interesting and indeed, different from what you hear most of the time. So let's go a bit deeper into those ones. I want to find out how we (the quality workforce) can help BALPA in this process. I don't like the idea of waiting for somebody elso to do something!

How can we help BALPA to put this case forward to UKOOA in a constructive manner?

What are we waiting to do so?

Does anybody else have another constructive idea?

[roundwego]

Hello again 100%RPM.

Sorry if I got a bit heated with your first message on this subject but I have been around this game long enough to know what has done no good in the past.

Ref. your question "How can we help BALPA to put this case forward to UKOOA in a constructive manner?", it needs someone to do a bit of homework on demographic profiles, projected fixed wing recruitment rates, military manpower output etc. etc. over the next few years. If one assumes the North Sea flying rate is going to drop by 10% over the next 3 years (unless the oil industry can give a more educated guess) then it is should be reasonably easy to statistically demonstrate that there may not be enough pilots to service the North Sea oil industry. One can also report on the reducing cockpit experience levels which is likely to be the trend over the next few years. What does this do to the oil companies safety cases?

The constant drain of experience to the fixed wing world will also reduce the ability of the helicopter operators to promote quality people into management. (I am told from a reliable source that Scotia has already had difficulty filling certain management posts from within.) Many of the pilots who have left the North Sea were potential Chief Pilot material and above.

For the amount BALPA members pay in subscriptions, it would in my view be reasonable to expect the Association to provide a professionally researched and produced report for presentation to the oil industry.

[Houdini]

Why do line pilots think that they should or can provide help and advice for the helicopter industry.

The solutions to problems of recruitment, staff retention and staff quality is a matter for the managers, if they are up to it, and the oil companys. They will find an answer if they have to!

Your problem is your pay, conditions, job security and quality of life.

Why not restrict your talents to these issues?

[roundwego]

"Why do line pilots think that they should or can provide help and advice for the helicopter industry.?" Answer - because it is our bread and butter and I for one would like it to stay healthy until I retire - and that includes ensuring there is a quality workforce to do the job. I don't want to be killed because the guy next to me is a dunderhead or my management hasn't got the competence to run a half decent safety management system to help protect my and my colleagues' and my passengers ass.

I would have thought it would be fairly obvious that your para 3 IS the answer to para 2.

[This message has been edited by roundwego (edited 31 May 2001).]

[Diffng]

OK,
So working to rule may be an outdated expression. The fact remains that it is still an effective tool in alerting the company to the fact that they have a problem. More importantly it alerts the oil companies to the problems as well. I'm sure that Scotia and Bristows have been trying to pour oil on the waters (no pun intended)and have told the oil companies that the problem isn't half as bad as it seems. We mustn't lose the impetus now. I for one will not be working any more voluntary days off lost and I urge anyone else in scotia/Bristows to do likewise.

[bovinedude]

Diffng

I have been urging North Sea Pilots, both verbally and through this forum, for the past two years, to use the simple word 'NO' when asked to work days off. Seeing aircraft on the dispersal when they should be flying is the only way Management will show any desire to improve our terms and conditions.
Unfortunately we pilots, as a species, are very greedy as still we have those 'willing to help the company out'.
Look in the mirror and practice saying 'NO', after a while its easy.

[Tuckunder]

I cannot believe roundwego and others comments here. I think that you will concede that British Airways have always done fairly well when the union has taken on the management. We are not taking on the Oil companies, that is a management problem. What we need to do is declare to our wonderful management that we are no longer willing to accept paltry pay rises, frozen allowances etc etc. God forbid I am not a militant but I am fed up with being taken for a ride. Of course working to rule will work. Taking our time out of immersion suits, refusing RRTs, refusing to work days off. I guarantee within days there would be crisis meetings between the oil companies and our management. Come on BALPA lets get some kind of united front.

[100%RPM]

The 'North Sea pilots' meeting in on its way.

Wednesday 13th
18:30 hrs
Thistle Hotel - Aberdeen
Expected attendance: 100+ pilots

Please let everybody know about the event.

Now:

What specific points would you like to disccuss there and then?

Who would you like to be the speakers? Make sure these guys come along!

Summer 2001: use it or lose it.

Happy flight :)

[pitchlink]

What is being proposed is a great idea, but please do not forget that there are 60+ Scotia/Bristow pilots south of the border who feel exactly the same as those of you up north. If you are to have a meeting to discuss the present situation, let us know what was said/decided etc. Thanks

[Pat Gerard]

What about those stuck in Scasta?
Can we say here what we expect so it can be passed on at the meeting ?

[t4 rising]

Is there any chance that the minutes of any meeting could be put up on rotorheads so that those that are unable to attend, like my self,can get the jist of what happend. would also be interested in the number of people in attendance

[100%RPM]

OK. I've got you points.

pitchlink: I'll let you know the outcome of this meeting. In the meantime:

When exactly could you get together in the South?
How could you organize that?
Where would you get together?

Answer all those questions, and then just do it (and let us know the results)!

Pat Gerard: Yes, speak up, and drop all your points here. And even if you're stuck at Scatsta, you can still phone up people who are in their days off at Aberdeen to make sure that they come along.

t4 rising: Yeah, the minute will be here. Now, what are your points for the meeting?... What do YOU want to say (or that somebody else say in your behalf) in the meeting?

Let's be proactive, not reactive!

Where would you like to be now, in the cockpit with your hands on the controls, or in the back, waiting to see if the guys in the front get it right?

[t4 rising]

100%rpm
The following questions are probably the ones that I would be most interested in getting answers to:-
1. What is the actual net salary difference between Scotia and Bristow pilots.
2. Has Scotia actually got a new roster structure ,what does it involve , and how well is it working.
3. Is the situation of Pilots running out of flying hours as bad as it appears.
4. How many Pilots have left or are thinking of leaving to the fixed wing world.
5. Is aircraft unservicability and lack of availability really becoming a problem.

[stikker]

would a web cam be an idea

[Tuckunder]

Unfortunately, Scatsta are not the only remote site! Would love to make the meeting but can't due to rosta. There is a lot of support from remote sites for some form of co-ordinated action.

[thechopper]

Is it legal that the company can prevent the company council to tell the workforce about proposals for pay etc?
I think we have a right to know what's on the agenda. That's what I thought I pay my union dues for. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[thechopper]

ok guys,
make sure you're goona make it tonight. The message is there; let's make sure it's received.If you don't do anything now, you deserve what you get. Shut up and suffer.

[chopperman]

thechopper,
Your company council answer to you, (the members), not to the company. I keep saying this, 'they, (the CC), are your mouthpiece and will say or do exactly what you tell them. If, for instance, you all want a 100% payrise then the CC must put forward your claim'. It has been known for a CC to keep commercially sensitive items from the membership at the companies request but it should not do so at the expence of that membership.

On another thread,
It seems that few people on this forum know what is going on in Scotia, does anyone from Scotia take part in this particular thread? I do know what is going on but am unwilling to publish it here, hopefully, you will know more after your bun-fight in the Thistle. I am sure you will find that Scotia pilots are a more united and determined bunch than you think.

Unfortunately, for personal reasons, I can't make the bun-fight , have fun.

Chopperman.

[stikker]

well how did it go?

[Speedwing]

Well, what a disappointment! Only about 50 pilots turned up out of about 250 based in Aberdeen (approx 30 from Scotia and 20 from Bristow). Basically only 20% of the workforce were prepared to attend. OK, some were working, some were away and didn't see the notices, but basically it just shows that the so-called unitedness to get something done was not achieved one little bit.

There was also a lot of hot-air going around with lots of rumours which were blatantly untrue (Scotia going for a 50% pay rise for example which was traced down to someone putting that is what they wanted on a questionnaire sent around to all the BALPA members). Rumours like these do not help anyone, and just go to make our case harder to justify in my opinion.

However, there were some good points put forward such as trying to get our salaries put at the low-cost airlines level (by low cost it was meant at the RyanAir, easyJet, Go scales). Companies would not be able to go to that sort of salary in one go, but could progress to achieve these levels after, say 3 years. This could be achievable by both companies because they can then sort out their budget and contract details. The scales would then match these airlines.

However, both comapnies should be made to realise that they need to start off with a good message to their workforce by giving a decent pay rise to prevent the drift away either from one company to the other, or to the airlines.

This is the best (and probably only time) that both work forces have to achieve an improvement in both pay and conditions. The feeling was let it go this year and we may never get a chance again!

Evidently, someone in Bristow this morning put around a letter demanding that their Company Council go for a 50% pay rise. Personally I think he is dreaming as no company will even start to talk at that sort of request. Perhaps a more sensible way to go is to start at about 25-30% but also get in an agreement that over a period of time e.g. 3 years, that salaries are matched with the low-cost airlines, as I said earlier. However, good luck to them if they can achieve it. I watch with interest.

Anyway, I was disappointed with the turn out and it just makes me think that many pilots are happy with what they have got. Putting around false hopes and promises doesn't help though, nor does a lot of hot air without some form of action to back it up!

One final point, to whoever set this up, why wasn't a room booked rather than filling up a bar with lots of other people? I understand that one kind soul scrounged a room from the hotel that was spare. This at least meant that we could all talk without "outsiders" listening in.

[chopperman]

The 50% that Scotia pilots are looking for is no rumour, nor is it hot air. A few quick sums will show that it would put us near to the narrow body jet pay that we used to have parity with years ago.

Chopperman.

[100%RPM]

As promised, a summary somebody produced:

MEETING 13 JUNE 2001
Introduction
A meeting of North Sea Helicopter Pilots was held recently primarily as a social event, but also to give an opportunity for the pilots of both sides of the airfield to acquaint themselves more accurately with the working conditions and rosters that each company worked to.

The Scotia situation
The company has been promising the pilots a new roster (8-6, which over 28 days gives 16 on and 12 off count up your days on in any 28-day period and see that it comes to an average of 19) for the last eighteen months or so and as at the beginning of April they have achieved exactly that (no 5-2-5-9 roster as we had been led to believe because they didn't want that). However, this has left the company some two to four crews short on any contract day and it was hoped that this shortfall would be made up by crews working their days off
The company themselves are preaching that the crews have agreed to this arrangement wherein they will work extra days and be rostered on to do so. Some crews may well have agreed to this, but not all, and it certainly isn't the case that everyone is working this arrangement.
They can be put on a "flexi-roster" which basically means that they don't know what they are working on any particular day, and they receive a small extra remuneration for this.
The Scotia work force has just received the second round of their "7% over two years", namely 4.27%. However, since then the pilots themselves have been communicating to BALPA the fact that they are entirely unhappy with the remuneration they are receiving (which rates are on average about 7-10% ahead of BHL), and they want a complete review of their pay and conditions to bring them into line with other essential service professionals in the oil industry and also to align them more accurately with their counterparts in other areas of the aviation industry.
They are currently pursuing this matter through the BALPA company council, who have indicated that it will take approximately six weeks to formulate a proposal to the company.

BHL Discussion
A separate discussion among the BHL aircrew present drew several conclusions. Without stating the obvious, the way ahead for the company is to make it sufficiently attractive to those joining to stay and make a career of it. This will involve substantial increases in remuneration and, through recruitment of sufficient numbers, quality of life.
There is a gagging clause on the discussions between the company and the CC on pay and this is completely unacceptable to the membership. The cc represents us a.t these negotiations and it is beholden upon them to report to us as members what has transacted at the negotiations.
A11 we know so far is that we know nothing, from which we can only infer that no offer has been made!
As an aside, it was pointed out that several company directors have recently traded their options and made substantial amounts of money in so doing (in the vicinity of $500,000).
Enough is enough! It was decided that we need to direct the cc more firmly on the levels of award we are now looking for (more in line with our colleagues), and that we would write to the cc and direct them as our representatives to ensure the company is made abundantly clear about this. Secondly it was decided that a meeting should be set for a date prior to the next meeting of the cc with the company, with a view to determining a strategy for the response to the outcome of these negotiations.
A letter has been formulated and is attached to this notice. Anybody who wants to make the letter personal should send an email to [email protected] to receive a copy of the text for themselves, otherwise, simply sign the attached letter and it will be passed on to the chairman of the cc very shortly. BALPA cc representatives and volunteers will be approaching you as an individual with a view to obtaining your support for the cc and the negotiating team and pilots are urged to consider the ramifications of the fact that we as yet do not know anything from the cc despite three meetings with the company!

[North Sea Phantom]

This is the letter BHL pilots are circulating around.

13 June 2001

The Chairman
BALPA Company Council
Bristow Helicopters Ltd
Dear Mr Chairman,

Recently you asked us to submit a vote on the level of pay rise we would expect from the company this year. Since this last correspondence from the Company Council I have been involved in discussions with my work colleagues and it has become abundantly clear that the level of pay and conditions that we are currently receiving from the industry is wholly inadequate, and does not reflect the true value of our service to the industry.

As pilots we perform a valuable function, providing a safe and efficient service without which the North Sea Oil Industry would be considerably the poorer! Our colleagues in other areas of the oil industry are rewarded significantly more than we are, and it is felt that the oil companies are not recognising the importance of our role in the infrastructure of the industry on the whole of the North Sea.

It is well documented that the value of the remuneration received by individuals in our own profession, in other areas of our industry such as the charter airlines, is much higher. Paradoxically, their working environment is significantly less-demanding. This inconsistency has led to the drain of experienced licence holders from among our ranks attracted by the better pay and working conditions. This affects me, my career and my working environment directly, placing an even higher demand on my personal resources to continue to provide the level of service and safety to the oil industry.

I believe that we need to achieve an immediate change in two vital elements of our working environment. Primarily, my remuneration should reflect the importance of the service I provide, and secondly, I want a career with visible, and attractive horizons to stop the drain to fixed-wing. Accordingly, I want to direct you as my representative on the Company Council and as part of the negotiating team, to make it very clear to the company that a pay award of less than 50% will not be acceptable to me!

I also want to ask you to hold a meeting prior to the next meeting with the company, with a view to establishing a clear mandate for you to continue the negotiations with the company and to make it clear to them that any further stalling of negotiations is unacceptable, that I want to see an offer published immediately after your next meeting and if no offer is forthcoming, to decide on what action we should take as a workforce to ensure that the company understands the seriousness of my position!

[Special 25]

North Sea Phantom - I have seen the letter above circulating around the company, and am aware that pilots are willing to undersign. The letter raises some good points that both we and I'm sure Bristow and Scotia management are well aware of but are we really signing to say that "anything less than 50% is unacceptable" ?

We have plenty of good arguments in our favour and these need to be put forward primarily to the oil companies by our management but to suggest that even a small minority of the pilots woruld down-tools and walk out if we were to be offered 20% is I beleieve, plainly not fact.

We all, as a united workforce, believe our services are worth more than we currently receive. Together we can achieve a lot more but at the same time, we need to keep our feet on the ground and by that I mean that we cannot threaten, what we have no intention of carrying out.

[thechopper]

That exactly is the crux. You're unhappy to sign up for 50% but happy to sign for 20.
150 pilots and 160 different figures. But as I suspect you quite happily fly your a/c with 15.5% pitch along with the others, go on and sign up for 50 just to bring the message across and force some reaction from the company. At least then we'll know where we stand rather sooner than later. And that's one big part of the exercise as I see it. If management still don't give a toss, this is their chance to show it to us.

[Speedwing]

To Chopperman

I believe that there is no directive for the Scotia Balpa CC to go to the company to negotiate a 50% pay rise. I cannot see any company seriously contemplating any discussions unless the workforce is willing IN LARGE numbers to do something about it. I think that the other night just goes to prove that there isn't the belief that there will be any chance of that type of increase in salaries straight off.

I don't deny that a 50% pay rise in Scotia (which would equate to about 60%(?) for Bristow) would bring us all in to line with the likes of easyJet, Go, etc. It will not happen in one go. However, to go to battle with the management to achieve this rise over a period of time where companies have the chance to re-organise their financial budgets and also their contract rates surely must be the way to go. Nothing comes instantly (unless you win the lottery).

[roundwego]

hang on guys, - what are we doing discussing our negotiating options in an open forum like this which every manager and oil company aviation rep can read. Whilst it is perfectly acceptable to vent our frustrations here, we should be keeping our plans a bit more discrete. Lets get this closed forum up and running.- does someone know how to do this?

[thechopper]

Speedwing
have we not spent years of trying to achieve nothing instantly? These days everything is geared around short term gains for the shareholders; if that's not achieved they sell their shares and us. So let's participate in short term policy. If we give our companies time until the next invariable slump we will be back to where we started from.Go for it now or lose out next year forever.

[Speedwing]

thechopper

You are right, we must go for it this year, but let's get a deal in where we increase over a number of years at a rate which will not put our companies in to a financial situation which may mean pilots numbers being cut just to pay those that remain. Get a deal agreed this year and we must be on to a winner! Or are you going to be one of those that only 50% will do at the cost of everyone else?

roundwego

I know that the bosses read this forum, but I am discussing nothing that hasn't already been heard around the crewrooms by our managers. It is nothing new to them, hence I put it on here. However, if it is seen to get support from those of you on here, then we may actually get somewhere! It would be nice to think that with so-called new management strategies and the hope of doing something to stop the exodus (soon to be mass?) of helicopter pilots to fixed-wing, they will consider a deal like this. In the end, it is of use to them because it will keep experience in the cockpit, and it is of use to the pilots because they can see a firm commitment from the companies that they are trying to do something.

[This message has been edited by Speedwing (edited 15 June 2001).]

[Problemchild]

Well,as a rotorhead expat I can't believe you're still carrying on like this.Social meetings have been tried before, with the same dismal turn out( bolstered by company spies).You have to accept that those flying helicopters for a living are not going to have a lot of get up and go or they'd have got up and gone.As for having a salary on par with easy and go etc. you have to realise you can fit 180 pax on a 737 800, how many can you get on a 332? Also the last time I checked nobody was paying for a seat to the basin.5 or more years ago you sat and watched the proactive members of your industry leave for pastures new, you may aswell resign yourselves to what you have in the way of terms and conditions, because nobody believes you can or will vote with your feet.

[Special 25]

Problem Child by name and nature it would seem !

Your 737 (and I believe a typical one carries around 150 pax) is full of average families looking to buy a budget ticket to a holiday destination and are looking for rock-bottom prices. ie. I recently bought 2 tickets, Aberdeen to Luton return for £100 including Taxes.

My 18 pax are paid for by the oil companies who are not looking for the cheapest price. They are making £?? million per day and need the guys out there at any price (obviously within some reason). I've flown 5 hour trips just to deliver a packet of washers !

Their business is producing oil and its a rich business. BP/Shell etc, need the workers out there, they need their frieght delivered and we could set the price a lot higher before any of them are going to consider it too expensive.

Isn't it nice to have such a simplistic outlook on the industry, but in truth that's where we stand. The oil companies need our services desperately and they would be willing to pay for them, yet somehow we have managed to find ourselves boxed into a corner, trying to outbid the competition by charging budget airline prices when they simply weren't required !

You can't compare North Sea Helicopters to the operations at Easyjet & Go. You can however determine that the aircrews, engineers etc do have a comparative working environment and I don't see many of them heading fixed-wing to rotary ! We work just as hard, in a harsher environment, for less pay and something has got to be done about it.

[thechopper]

Speedwing,
I must say, that, with (probably) 8 years left in this volatile industry of ours ,I am not too concerned about the long term prospect. If the oil price goes up by 300%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the profits reach obscene !!!!!!!!!!!!!! levels , I don't feel embarrased by asking for a 50% payrise not over years , but now. Just like Standby - vessels, drill-rigs or consultants, we are an essential part of an industry, which in our part of the world is declining. So the demand dictates the price.
Do you see any chance of working for any period of time abroad as a pilot? Unless you strike a speial deal with management and they provide a house for you in the Faroes if you are prepared to crew a contract.
The empire died some years ago.
If we give them time to reach the next inevitable slump we only hurt ourselves.
I hate to say that, because until very recently I saw quite a future for our industry, and thinking along the lines of US and THEM never occurred to me, but if management gives you a " Like it or shove it "
Attitude, that's what they can expect and get from their workforce. And I hope it's not only pilots, but engineers who think along the same lines, as they provide my tools on OUR ESSENTIAL JOB;
WITHOUT IT THE NORTHSEA STOPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Problemchild]

Special 25 All that you say is true! However it's been true for the last 30 years.Howcome commercial divers have long since retired to a large slice of the home counties whilst all the Helicopter Pilots live in Ellon and are still getting up at 00 dark o clock? If you have a valuable skill how are the oil and helicopter companies managing to pay slave wage rates for all these years? I'm afraid I agree with you on many points ,but have no faith that you'll find sufficient depth of courage and support among the work force to get any improvement.In the end it'll be the same old story, those who would do something about it will eventually act on their own and move to better conditions for themselves elsewhere.

[chopperman]

Just two points:

Firstly, a very good article by John McGurk in The Log, 'Don't Kill the Goose'. Well worth a read.
Secondly, Problemchild, go back to your fixed wing flying, and don't talk about things you no longer know about.

Chopperman.

[Pat Gerard]

Sad. Lots of arguments when a common goal should be achieved. Talk about union, unity, association,etc.......where is it ?

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

I'm sorry the meeting didn't work out..... but I'm not surprised. Apathy wasn't the only factor to cause a low turnout . People have a natural reluctance to be seen to be involved in unofficial forums ( would Pprune work if we all had to reveal our identities ? )That said though , I do think we should have a means of communicating our thoughts to each other and the companies. Why don't we set up a Balpa forum ? This would allow us to discuss and influence Balpa's actions and focus their efforts. At the end of the day , they are the only organisation that the companies recognise so we should be behind them 100%.
With regards to the salary issue I think it's simple . We should employ exactly the same rhetoric against the companies that they have so recently and successfully used against the oil companies. "You have been getting a high quality service at a low price for too long.... start paying up".Both the oil companies and the helicopter operators know that the wages are going to have to increase significantly to keep us happy , and I beleave they are prepared to go that route. All we have to do is stay calm and put forward well reasoned and reasonable requests through recognised channels and we will win.
One final thought for any Balpa reps who are reading this and thinking that I am blowing sunshine up their butts. You should never have agreed to a gagging clause without first consulting us! Communication is a two-way thing.
My typing finger hurts TTFN.

------------------
BOHICA

[Pat Gerard]

Can someone tell me what a gagging clause is exactly, and why was it in force ? Why should there be any secrecy on what we try to achieve ?

[Rameses III]

Right my turn!

Firstly the letter to BALPA has just created more problems. I've seen it at work and I'm very surprised at some of the people who have signed it. There is no way that I would lend my signature to such an appalling piece of illiterate rubbish. It is full of emotive language, idle threats and old clichés. It is a complete and utter load of bollocks.

The author of this and the signatories have together managed to undermine the BALPA negotiating team, split the workforce and enforce the management view that pilots are basically disorganised and divided. If the author is who I think he is then I wish he would make good on his continued threats to leave. I'd personally give him a lift to the train station to make sure he goes.

Face the facts, both companies will have to give the workforce a good pay rise but only for one reason and it will have nothing to do with the BALPA negotiating team or with badly written letters. The pilots are now, at long last, voting with their feet and there are very few new pilots available to take their places and that's it.

Collective Friction's point about the gagging clause and BALPA is well made. I think that at the next BALPA meeting it should be raised and answered. MSF doesn't have such a clause so why have BALPA agreed to it?


[This message has been edited by Rameses III (edited 16 June 2001).]

[QM]

I've not been in to work since the meeting, so what is the text of this immotive piece of paper that has Ramesis so fired up?

Anyone seen what the Yanks are getting, 40%!

[Special 25]

OK, I think we're all agreed in the same(ish) goals. Perhaps we need to come up with some figures for Balpa to go in with - It seems that the situation has changed in the 3 months since we were asked what pay-rise we were looking for and we're all asking for another 5-10% on top of that.

Can anyone in the know, look at the pay scales at Easyjet, Go etc. then find some middle ground between them and us and start batting around some figures. I don't want to start a total riot but I feel we aren't going to get 50% and I really want to see where the threshold is between the majority of pilots walking out, and pilots being satisfied.

I think we can be as open as we like here as management are well aware of the general feeling on the ground, and my belief is that if we can get 15% now with a guaranteed 15% minimum, for next year (to be negotiated upwards), then that will be an acceptable proposition. If I am wrong, then please let me know now, but at least lets start getting some figures. And don't worry about 'giving our hand away' because you can guarantee one thing, whatever our bottom line is, the companies are going to undercut that by 5% whether its printed here or taken in by Balpa.

We need to establish what is acceptable and stick to it - Anything lower requries some sort of action by all. And don't just come back with 40 or 50% as I am not looking to break the companies, but get an established foundation for future pay scale increases that will have us up with the fixed-wing crowd in the next 5 years.

If I'm speaking totally outwith the rest of you then shoot me !!

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

BANG!...........Sorry couldn't resist that.
I think we should be looking at 20% minimum for starters,with the balance ( 30% ) to be sorted out over the next two years.

------------------
BOHICA

[pitchlink]

I would tend to agreewith the sentiment, however, the companies have to solve the problem of today and not one which may not be around in 5 yrs. The shortage of experienced crews is only going to get worse in the forseeable unless something substantial is achieved now. I believe this for two reasons;
1- high time co-pilots and junior captains will still leave to either fixed wing or other rotary jobs. To fixed wing for the money (in most cases an increase in pay to join the bottom rung of the ladder). To onshore rotary jobs for a change of seat and still probably an increase in salary. We seem to have forgotten that onshore salaries have caught us guys who have to wear rubber and fly in crap, whilst we have seen our pay and conditions deteriorate.
2- We will not attract the young keen pilot into rotary whilst we offer what we have now. This situation has been exacerbated with the implimentation of JAA licenses and the associated increase in cost. Who in their right mind is going to undertake a rotary license at a cost of £50k+ when he/she could spend £30k for a f/w ATPL with the better prospects at the end of it!
This situation is set to get even worse at the end of the year with the introduction of the JAA abridged ATPL(H) IR to ATPL(A) exams, making a fixed wing conversion from rotary one hell of a lot easier than it is at present.

[QM]

Why are you all looking over a two or three year period! What's wrong with now. The oil companies ARE expecting it. 50% is not such a stupid figure. Look at BA asking for 30% this year, not over several.

[This message has been edited by QM (edited 17 June 2001).]

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

QM,catch a taxi to GETREALSVILLE TENNESSEE.
The pay hike you are talking about is only achievable by breaking the company.The new contract rates that have been negotiated with the oil companies will take a while to filter through.Any large pay award at this time would require a commensurate increase in the pension scheme, and I don't think BHL or SCOTIA could afford that.If we can keep our heads and not get greedy then we will achieve a very good standard of living with a longterm future to go with it.

------------------
BOHICA

[QM]

I've been to realsville, which is why I mention it. The oil companies ARE expecting it. It is just convincing 'The Management' to go to them and increase our rates. Of course we can't expect our company, or Scotia to coff up a 50% pay rise with the current negotiated rates. Therefore it is time to go back to the oil companies and inform them that the pilots need more to keep them happy and not leave, or cause disruption.

A perfect example was in rotor & wing recently. A suggested structured 41% rise for PHI. It is about time someone got of their butt and did the same in this country!

Our company can only work on their current rates. After the meeting last week, most agree that the rates NEED to be re negotiated.

[Speedwing]

If you want to see a comparison of where we stand against the airlines, have a look at the latest edition of The Log. There is an excellent article by John McGurk and he puts forward our case very well. I only hope those in management see the article and take heed of the warnings (and the oil companies come to that).

Whoever, it was who was asking about the letter posted at Bristows, it was put on this list by North Sea Phantom. The letter was accompanied by a report of the meeting posted by 100%RPM.

Interestingly enough, the two items were stapled together in the Bristow crewroom and as "[email protected]" appears to be the e-mail address offering copies of the text of the letter, I can only guess he is the instigator. I have to agree with Rameses III with his comments over this person. This person has done more harm that good in my opinion. We need to be supporting our negotiating team, NOT causing them more problems. They have more than enough to contend with by trying to get a so-far unsympathetic management to come up with something to take to the workforce. Despite the gagging order imposed by management (which I have seen in other comapnies during crucial pay negotiations and so is not an unusual thing to happen - Bristow is not alone in this), it basically means that the union negotiators believe that the company has not given them anything near to what their members want and therefore both have retired to allow the management to see if they can come up with something better. To tell everybody about things which are not actually on the table is worthless. Why not let the team get something that they can take to us to vote on. THEN, we can decide what we want to do about it and let our CC know.

Then is the time to say "50% or nothing" or (to me) the more sensible approach of trying to increase over say 3 years.

[Tuckunder]

Rameses III
Your points raised on "the letter" are, perhaps too scathing. The individual concerned can be naive to the extreme but the points raised by his letter are relevant. It is time that management is made aware of how we, the pilot workforce, view the incompetence of the last decade of contract negotiations. BALPA is our only forum capable of acheiving this. As I have said in previous comments, oil companies will pay whatever is needed to service their industry. However, the fact that all 3 and now only 2 companies have shot each other in the foot over contract prices is as much a fault of us, the pilot workforce, as our own management. We have bent over backwards to fly that rotation in "marginal" conditions, not take our rest period out of suit, be real "company men" whilst filling in our duty hours etc etc. WHY? All we have needed to do is operate exactly by the book. Certainly, that would have given better protection against slimming down and enforced redundancies. However, back to the letter. The fact that so many are signing this letter, many of whom are capable of more eloquent pros, is to me, a sign of unity which is what we all want.

I will conclude by saying the Prune forum is good for us all to let off steam. I don't believe it harms our cause because it provides a useful conduit from the workforce to management. However, there is only one organisation ,BALPA, capable of improving our terms and conditions. I would say if you are not in, join or hold your tongue. We are so quick to criticise the CC but of course they are powerless without the majority of workforce support. If we could get our membership to around 90% or better, we would se a management who took all these comments in Prune much more seriously.

I launched a Puma into the blue,
Where he went, I have no clue,
A 61 said "I can do",
Now that buggers got lost too.


Anon!

[Droopy]

If it's of any assistance, after some 10 years service with them I left BHL 10 years ago. I now earn around 85% of what I would have earned had I stayed. I would consider coming back, but the current rates don't tempt me.

[bovinedude]

Those of you who want to see actual figures, take a look at my thread NORTH SEA HELICOPTER PILOTS PAYSCALES.
These are actual figures that would put us 15% below the fixed wing average.
Print them out, fill in the blanks and respond.

[Problemchild]

What are the current membership percentages of Balpa in each company ? For so long we had absolutely no forum or voice that I'd have assumed a near 100% membership now the Union is recognised by the operators.It's the only chance, so each time you fly, badger the other guy to join if he's not already done so.It's amazing how quickly the numbers can rise if you get a ground swell going and people feel they are part of the majority.

[Brassed Off]

Not so professional anymore this forum. Lots of childish banter and nit picking but not much else. Stop playing games with the clever digs at each other and get on with the job of trying to improve our lot. Also it would be better if you stop listing peoples email addresses like flapbacks. If BALPA went to the management, and they went to the oil companies saying we wanted 30-40% and the oil companies said yes. Does anyone thing that we would get that money or would managment stich us up yet again with the money going to themselves. Please stop the swearing as well.
I like many others am looking for work elsewhere!

[Tuckunder]

Brassed off'

I cannot agree with you. Our dispute IS with OUR management. What they can negotiate from the oil companies is up to them and good luck to them! (we all want happy share holders don't we?) What our management must realise is that they have a very unhappy workforce, which will soon be no workforce unless they do something soon. I, like you, am now looking very actively elsewhere and will go unless they come up with the goods. Surely, we are not alone here.

However, I agree about the needless niggles and e-mail idents.

I should maybe qualify the workforce! Maybe they will still have a workforce but will it be of the right calibre/experience?

[Rameses III]

Does anyone know how the Bristow anti BALPA brigade’s Sunday meeting went? Did anyone turn up and can we expect another badly written letter in the near future attacking the Company Council?

The way in which these clowns are carrying on causes me to suspect that they may be management infiltrators. The truth is out there!

[Speedwing]

AFAIK the Sunday meeting was cancelled as the BALPA company council offered to talk to anyone who had concerns on Monday afternoon.

I'm led to believe that the guys got a grip of the individuals who were making noises and gave a briefing to anyone interested as to the progress of the pay talks so far.

It evidently quitened down the noisy minority as they realised that the chaps did have their interests at heart and were actually trying to get the best deal they could.

Hopefully the "trouble-makers" will now shut up and ask the guys at the battle front if they have any concerns rather than trying to muck rake with unproven rumours both from Pprune and also from similar types on the other side of the runway.

But then again, why let the truth get in the way of a good rumour?

[Attila]

Hi there, Q, just thought that you'd like to know that Jim Wilhite is advertising for pilots for Trinidad on a 56/28 rotation....

http://www.justhelicopters.com/justpilots.htm

Now there's a thought........

[212man]

So what's the best guess for the deal next week?

Q, why have 56/28 when you can have 49/35 and no jet lag? Just a thought.



------------------
Another day in paradise

[100%RPM]

Aircrew Ballot Results

Q1. Do you accept the July 2001 Pay and Benefits Review?
Yes - 13.9%
No - 86.1%

Q2a. Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike?
Yes - 75%

Q2b. Are you prepared to take part in strike action?
Yes - 71.5%

Scotia and Bristow: Let's stick together and we'll see the results very shortly! :mad:

[Tuckunder]

Well we have done our bit! Over to you now CC. Please make sure that you know what we all want and that you represent OUR interests. There is no backing down from this one.

Happy Flying

[Speedwing]

Perhaps you might consider joining your Company's CC to ensure that your interests are taken care of instead of using such threatening talk. They ARE working for your interests!! :mad:

[Tuckunder]

Speedwing:

There was nothing threatening about my post. I have been supportive of the CC throughout.

[Speedwing]

Well your quote of "Well we have done our bit! Over to you now CC. Please make sure that you know what we all want and that you represent OUR interests." sounds threatening to my mind.

The CC of whatever company you work for needs the support of everyone throughout, not just up to initial ballot!

I'm not on a CC but I am giving them my full support throughout and I don't feel I need to make comments such as yours. I will now see what they can achieve from management, and I am sure they will get the best deal that they can on our behalf. However, it is now up to management to understand that WE ALL are fed up with the way we have been treated over the years. If they cannot afford to pay more now, then they must find some way to assure us all that they will find a way over a period of time.

I hope the CC will be successful, but in the end I think they will not be able to achieve much more than they have already got, and that isn't down to a poor CC or BALPA members, it's down to management not understanding properly the feelings of us all.

We must all stick together - CC and the members.

[Tuckunder]

Speedwing:

I will e-mail you privately. This is not the forum for this.

Happy flying.

[Speedwing]

Actually, I feel that it is if people decide to start trends such as this on this forum.

However, my e-mail is private so I am afraid that you will not be able to contact me off this forum - sorry.

[Tuckunder]

You seem very keen to put your ideas over publically. I have a very good reason for not going public on this forum about our CC. However, if you take the time to read previous forums, you will see that I have, indeed, been very supportive of our CC. Especially in encouraging folk to join BALPA and give them a mandate for phase 2 of the negotiations. There have been som very vociferous comments made re BALPA many of which I have not agreed with. I certainly do not think that now, is the time for that. However, I do think that I have got the right to say "We have done our job. (i.e. given you a mandate) Now CC over to you please make sure you represent our interests".

This is because, historically, I do not think that they have. If you wish to know my reasons for this then e-mail me at Tuckunder@pilot,pprune.com. I refuse to be dragged into a public slanging match. However, I think that we are both agreed that the CC need the total support of the membership and that is what I have advocated throughout.

Happy flying.

[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: Tuckunder ]

[Cyclic Hotline]

What the ABZ Press & Journal reports to the outside world...

Copter pilots reject latest Bristow offer

Arthur Macdonald

Offshore helicopter pilots and search-and-rescue crews throughout the UK have rejected the latest pay offer from operator Bristow.

The British Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa) yesterday overwhelmingly said no to the deal which it estimated offered captains between 5.5% and 14.1% on basic pay.

The helicopter pilots are demanding parity with fixed-wing pilots, an issue that has been a running sore in the offshore industry for some time.

The salaries of helicopter captains average about £50,000 a year compared with £80,000 for fixed-wing captain.

North Sea helicopter operators have been losing pilots to the airlines because of the differential.

The Bristow pay negotiations cover some 180 employees in Scotland and 220 in England, largely in the oil industry but including rescue crews at Bristow's four stations at Stornoway, Sumburgh, Lee on Solent and Portland.

Captain Richard Maloney, who represents Balpa at Bristow, said: "Although Bristow has gone some way to address the urgent issue of pay and the growing problem of pilot recruitment and retention especially in the North Sea, our members believe it has not gone far enough.

"Under the company's offer, there would still be a significant and unacceptable pay gap between Bristow's highly skilled helicopter pilots and pilots of fixed-wing aircraft. We are therefore calling on the company to significantly improve its offer."

Mick Rowsell, a search-and-rescue aircrewman, added: "Aircrewmen based at Bristow's search-and-rescue stations strongly feel that Bristow has failed to address properly a number of long-standing pay issues.

"Bristow's aircrewmen now earn significantly less that their military counterparts. This cannot continue."

A spokesman for Bristow said that the negotiations which began in May were continuing and hoped the talks would be brought to a successful conclusion. He added: "Bristow helicopters believes that it has made a good offer that would result in a significant increase both to basic pay and allowances payable to flying crew and is disappointed that, although Balpa itself recommended its members accept the offer, members have decided negotiations should continue

[Speedwing]

Tuckunder:

It seems that we are in agreement. However, it was your comment that I felt was in the wrong and I said so. What went on in the past is irrelevant as it is the present which is of great importance.

As we are both agreed that support for the CC is important, then I have no more to say. As far as I am concerned this matter between us is now closed.

[Brother]

Hello

I am new here. I support the CC to represent us for a better pay rise than the pathetic one given to us by Bristow Management. It is an insult after all this time. I have not posted before but feel that I have to because I am so angry with management attitude towards us.

I am disillusioned with BALPA because they recommended that we accept the rise offered by Bristow. I know that we must have them to represent us but they seem to be too oriented towards the company view and out of touch with the members.

I don't know what more we have to do to be heard. Please BALPA, get with it and get us what we deserve.

I heard that the pilots in the Gulf of Mexico got significant rises by organising and threatening to go on strike according to Rotor and Wing,well, it is about time that we showed the companies what we can do and stopped talking about it so that we can get significant rises as well.

Who would support limited action to start now? Maybe we should carry full fuel everywhere and refuel at every stop, shut down of course.

[Speedwing]

Brother:

According to the Bristow CC they were put in the position of recommending the deal for a couple of reasons:

1. because the membership wanted to know what was on offer as there had been a gagging order in force by the management

2. because the company were going to refuse to put on the table the offer that we were shown if BALPA did not recommend the offer.

According to the BAPLA IRO (or whatever he is called) at a members meeting, this is quite normal in negotiations and then it is up to the members to decide (as we have) that it is not acceptable.

We can now give the CC a new mandate so that the management are aware that the offer just isn't good enough.

To me, the CC got the best deal that they could at the time even if they had to "recommend" it to us, as I guess they couldn't get anything better. We didn't like it and we have said so very strongly judging by the figures above.

The main problem is that we are all new to pay ngotiation dealings and we all have to learn as we go along.

[Special 25]

So can someone tell me how long this will take from now - Are we looking at months of further negotiations and ballots ??

[Tuckunder]

Speedwing:

I am doing now what I vowed I wouldn't! It is very big of you to say, "as far as you are concerned it is the end of the matter". Or should I say arrogant? I believe that history IS relevant, it has an uncanny habit of repeating itself. I stand by my original comment and I do not consider it to be threatening. I am glad we are agreed on the main issue of present solidarity and as far as I am NOW concerned it is the end of the matter!!!!!!


Happy Flying

[ 12 August 2001: Message edited by: Tuckunder ]

[MaxNg]

Speedwing/tuckunder and all
Scotia CC met with the pilots last week to keep us up to date with events. We were told of the results of the Bristows ballet and I am pleased that you have rejected there latest offering, we were told that our management would like to offer some sort of(undefined) productivity scheme along with a non pensionable pay rise over possibly 1 to 3 years, this was rejected unanimously by all at the well attended meeting and our CC were instructed to tell the management that we were not interested in anything other than Parity with narrow bodied jet scales, with immediate effect. Scotia CC will meet with Scotia Managment on the 17th of this month and SCotia managment will present them with an improved offer for which they will require a answer by the 24th of August, we are aware that your CC will be meeting with Bristows management on the 3rd of Sept, There will be a meeting of pilots from both sides of the tarmac sometime between the 24th and 3rd venue to be notified, It is hoped that this meeting will serve as a joint BALPA forum for discusion on the next phase.

The end is near. :)

[Taff Missed]

Classic stuff this....

Pilot A makes a statement, Pilot B doesn't like his tone so they have a public row about who is 'right' and having agreed that they are both right, they continue the row.

What message does this kind of exchange send? Management must be pi$$ing themselves!

Pilots? United? A bit of a contradiction in terms. One has only to look at the acrimonious exchanges going on in other threads for evidence of this.

If North Sea pilots were 'united' they would have each others e-mail and communicate their plans privately.

Every NS pilot pay-related thread that turns into a slanging match takes kudos away from the idea that a 'united front' might be in the offing.

---------

And having plunged my hand firmly into the wasp nest, I shall beat a hasty retreat.

[Pat Gerard]

Taff Missed

I agree with you. I always said that if Balpa was an association, were we associates ? If it is a union, are we united ?

Well, by the recent notes received from Scotia and the latest BHL/Balpa ballot, it seems that we are becoming united at last. It is a good thing, and let's not spoil it.

[Speedwing]

Tuckunder:

As usual, you just like to try and have the last word! Well after this you can!!

Am I arrogant? For and about some things, yes I am and I have no regrets over it.

However, I have decided to leave this forum as I am fed up with the same old people coming up with the same old ideas and moans. If you feel you can do it better than the CCs in either company, then vote them off and do it yourselves. If not, then let them do their work.

I have said my last words. GOODBYE ALL!!

[chopperman]

Taff Missed,
The Scotia pilots (The Balpa members at least) do communicate privately by e-mail. They don't advertise everything on a public forum, you never know who might read it.
Regards,
Chopperman.

[Tuckunder]

Taff missed:

Am I missing something here? I thought my second post to Speedwing suggested going to private e-mail. I supplied mine. Does it mean that because he or she does not wish to communicate privately, that I should just meakly accept what was said? I am sorry but, I defend all that I have said on this forum and I certainly do not think that any of these comments have any bearing on the management or the result of the ballot. I think there are great signs of a unified workforce, probably far more than ever in the history of the North Sea. I am sorry that Speedwing wishes to leave the forum but that is his or her choice.

[QM]

All BHL staff are invited to an Urgent Pay Review meeting at the Dyce Marriot Hotel 7th September at 15:00, Called by the CEO Mr Chanter.

P.S Anyone that knows me I have just rejoined BALPA
:rolleyes:

[MaxNg]

QM

Welcome to the Brotherhood (there is safty in numbers).

Are you aware that Scotia management have taken the "Ostrich approach" to discussions with our CC, and has refused to meet with the CC to be told officialy that we are in Dispute.

How very nieve!!!!

Please don't sell the North Sea pilots short there has NEVER been a better time to regain sensible salaries.

[QM]

MaxNg, very interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Should be interesting to see what happens tomorrow!

[AllyPally]

Now is the time to don our tin hats and put our heads above the parapet. Scotia management are so busy trying to find the person who put forward the crazy new callsigns (lasted a week) that they don't have time for important meetings!! Join BALPA and make a stand. By the way what is "nieve" is it the french for stupid?
Ally

[400 Hertz]

The French for stupid is bête. Or if you prefer, stupide.

I think that you all better tendre l'oreill at the meeting rather than pousser des cris.

Or will it all turn into another pagaille like the others?

Don't you think that you can learn so much from this Internet thingie nowadays?

[QM]

Intriguing meeting, I definitely know what I am going to vote ;) Hope everyone else does too.

[roundwego]

Go on then. Don't keep those of us who couldn't attend in suspense! :eek:

[QM]

Roundwego,

Is it difficult to work out from the message icon?
(Public forums are not the place to discuss private company issues). :D

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]

[MaxNg]

QM

Stop teasing and spill the beans!!!!!!!

This forum has no boundaries and I agree that some company info should remain within the confines of that workforce however! if the meeting was to discus the north sea pilots plight then maybe that portion of the meeting should be aired on this forum as any decision taken will have a knock on effect to ALL pilots.

:) :eek:

[QM]

Yes okay, after returning to work today, it is abundantly clear that the CC have not attended the meeting as nothing is on the notice board other than email I received from Scotia.

The upshot, if you accept the pay deal, our company will hurt trying to give it to you. If you don't accept it, and that was the clear message given by the CEO and a nodding Osbourne behind him, then there is more ammunition for them to negotiate with. Chanter even stated himself, the time is now!

So, No, Yes, Yes to your ballot papers. There appears to be a lack of communication within our company that needs addressing....URGENTLY. :mad:

[Special 25]

Were we at the same meeting ?

I got a different impression entirely - I don't think he was talking in codes, he said that we are unable to renegotiate contracts mid-term and some oil companies are being sympathetic while others are predictably not.

But he did say that a 'yes' vote would enable them to continue the negotiations for 'benchmarking' and long-term increases in wages, which he stated was inevitable due to airline wages and obvious advances being made at Scotia. He also suggested that a 'no' vote would further damage the companies reputation and the general opinion of relations between management and staff at Bristow.

Perhaps I have all of this wrong and if so I apologise for taing things too literally and not trying to look for deeper meanings. The obvious debate as to how to overcome the pension problems clearly needs some attention particularly for those of us without that much time left to run but I am willing to stand up and agree that yes the time is now, and the company should have been badgering the oil companies for years, warning them of this time. Unfortunately there have been no major contract negotiations since Shell 3 years ago and you can't expect the company coffers to suddenly stump up 25% rise for everyone - It simply isn't going to happen.

Vote yes and accept that it is going to take 3 to 4 years to really get where you want to be.

[QM]

Special 25, Yes we were at the same meeting and you seem to have a differing view from most other people who attended.

Actually when I asked him if an acceptance or rejection would make any difference, he said "no it wouldn't", you must have heard him say that. He did state that a strike would badly damage the companies image and I agree with him on that particular subject (personally I don't and have never condoned strike action), but equally, you need to consider Scotia's involvement and how a yes vote would affect their position and ours. This is not just about us and them, it is bigger than that.

I do feel that further negotiation is required, but the oil companies need to realize that we are serious about this subject.

[Crabette]

QM
Mostly agree. BUT a no will make the management look bad in front of the board, shareholders and oil companies, not the workers who have been sh*#ted over the years by said management. Sorry Special 25 you missed the subtle bits.
No one really wants this sort of situation to spiral into industrial action, but there comes a time when as one PPRUNER put "value for money & money for value", is required. NOW is the time for this not next year or later. The changing world market forces and global economic climate will no doubt change enough for the Oil companies and management to say 'sorry' but things are now tight and we can't afford to bring you up to airline salaries/bench marking blah, blah, waffle etc.

[QM]

Crabete,

Agreed, except I feel that a no vote would clearly say to the management and the oil companies, that we aren't happy with the latest offer. Yes the company can only offer this amount, nobody expects anymore from the company. The extra needs to come from the oil companies.

If the management attend the meetings, one of which is today, it can be clearly stated, "we have offered the work force all that we can, they are not happy and want parity now". There is no way our company can do this, it is therefore up to our clients to increase the rates immediately.

As you say a time will come, not very long from now when something will have to be done. I mentioned I don't personally condone it, but needs must and we have to do things that we may not agree with in order to gain our objective.

P.S. Why are our CC being very quiet over this, I haven't heard a word from them?

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: QM ]

[Brother]

Well, the poor company say that they can't afford to give us a rise because the oil companies are not paying them enough and they can't re-negotiate mid term.

If we accept, we will have little extra cash and just more empty promises.

If the global economic slowdown continues, the oil price may fall and we will have achieved nothing. We are only able to improve our lot by taking advantage of a crew shortage and a high oil price. If either one of those changes, we have no voice or power.

I think that the time is NOW to show what we can do to the oil industry before it is too late and we miss this opportunity.

[Jed A1]

My experience of oil company contracts is that there is scope for annual review of rates. Obviously to help compensate for all kinds of market rate changes. Furthermore, there is almost always scope for immediate review due to unexpected rate rises i.e. fuel, exchange rates etc. These rises have to be justified and documented. I can't see why market pressures on salaries are any different. In my view if you want increased rates it is possible if you push hard enough and can justify it.

[heloplt]

Since when has company image mattered in these issues? Whether pilots stike for higher wages...better conditions...has nothing to do with image. The problem is that of a management that is unable to maintain a reasonable dialogue with its employees....any hope pilots have of acheiving their goals is to stay the course and not give in short of success.

If all the pilots at Bristow and Scotia work together in this you cannot fail. Just where are the replacement pilots going to come from? I can assure you they do not exist anywhere now....Americans are getting their raises and still cannot man the operations on the Gulf Coast. Air Log is running 15% short of the numbers needed to crew their aircraft now...they have 30 pilots each day working over on their time off now. PHI has the same problem. The company is desperately short of pilots overseas and cannot man the operations sufficiently to avoid time and duty hour problems. They cannot draw from overseas operations to replace you. The management ranks have been reduced to minimum...now is the time. If the oil patch slows down the company will be in a position to hold down wages yet again.

When PHI increased pilot wages 40%, they immediately raised rates 30% and lost not one contract. Do you think the North Sea is any different? If Scotia and Bristow raise rates then the oil company has no choice but to pay up.

The only issue with which I see a problem is the pension funding issue and I see the pilots being able to work that out with the company. The sticking point as I see it...is the old Bristow management dictatorial attitude in action here. They fight change and refuse to go along when it is someone else calling the tune for a change. They are in a position to greatly improve the lot of the employees by passing the costs along to the customers...just this time they cannot take a piece of the action when they do.

The old Bristow does not exist anymore...nor the loyalty that Mr. Bristow had for his people....this management has proven what they think loyalty means...ask the 52 pilots that got shifted a while back for being more than 53 years old. They don't give a stuff for you...so why do you worry about the image of the company.

The overseas pilots support your aims on the pay issues....don't look for us to come to the North Sea and replace you....we have our own axe to grind over pay , pension, and living conditions. :rolleyes:

[QM]

Couldn't agree with you more about the oil companies coming up with the funds. Some already have!

Yes the old Bristow no longer exists, we don't have anyone in power from the old regime. Loyalty, what's that, look after number one, no one else will!

[Inspector Lestrade]

Many congratulations to the BHL Management on their recent victory over BALPA. No sooner had the workforce united as one over the pay deal then our beloved CC are conned into producing a productivity scheme which splits the workforce neatly in to a North/South divide.

This 'meaningful assessment' or time and motions study is so obviously biased towards a short sector multiple landings operation that us Aberdeen drivers get completely screwed by it.

So who produced it? Someone in Norwich perhaps? Surely not the same individual who was phoning around the units to get us to accept the revised offer? I sense a cunning plan. Where was the consulation with the staff? Why have BALPA agreed to carry it through when to anyone with the smallest amount of common sense it will only serve to annoy, anger and insult the Aberdeen/Scatsta staff - God knows what the SAR units think of it!

For months the cry on Rotorheads has been to unite behind BALPA. We did but now I sense another public row. They'll be dancing with joy down the corridors at Redhill.

Come the CC - GET A GRIP. :mad:

[Pat Gerard]

Inspector Lestrade

What is the " productivity scheme " you are talking about ? Have not heard about it in Scasta !!!!!!!

[SARcastic]

The idea was a productivity survey to assist in benchmarking - its a spoof, don't submit the form - the information on it could be lethal, in the wrong hands.(you can be sure it will get there)
Productivity survey based on what? How can the data possibly be used in any form of rational comparison with other sections of the industry?
The concept is radically biased towards short trip shuttles (sounds like the Southern North Sea), and leaves other members of the wokforce high and dry.
SAR crews will be particularly savaged by this survey.
Find the joker who produced this and shaft him (or her)- Don't fill in the form !!!
:rolleyes:

[soggyboxers]

Just goes to show - doesn't matter how many changes of ownership Bristow goes through the rule that management will always insert a well-greased, barbed-wire-bound baseball bat up the appropriate orifice has never been changed. Keep smiling and leave as soon as you have the chance. It is possible :mad:

[chopperman]

:eek: Sounds like they left the grease of this particular bat.

Fair pay for helicopter pilots,

Chopperman

[Leaky Valve]

:mad: Pat, we managed to get hold of this proposal this morning on our unit. Basically, you get points for each activity that you do i.e. 2 points for a landing, 1 point for standby etc, etc... which give you a final points total for the day which in turn assesses your productivity. So points mean pennies!
However, it is geared towards a short sector multiple landing operation and takes no account of long flights to the ESB or night rescues in SAR, or anything which is not beneficial to Southern North Sea. We wondered which member of the CC might be responsible for this? Answers on a postcard!!!
It states in the explanation at the beginning that "one of the hardest issues to overcome is the measurement of work tasks, exacerbated by the various activities engaged in by the company." It then goes on to say that we should all co-operate with the scheme to "achieve a meaningful assessment of a cross section of the pilot and crewman workforce". How can this possibly be achieved, as they have already stated that the company's activities are so diversified?
Basically where we are we're annoyed that it came completely out of the blue with no consultation and as with most BALPA things in BHL we only found out about it by accident. It's ill thought out and as already stated splits the workforce. Come on the CC use your head and think once in a while. Return the baseball bat without the vaseline! Big, big thumbs down. :mad:

[chopperman]

Gents,
you can tell me to butt out of this thread if you wish as I don't work for BHL. I must ask, why do your CC insist on doing things without consulting the work force? Across the runway our CC were requested/told "no acceptance without consultation with us". It works! They call a meeting and all points are discussed. The CC may make recomendations to us but in the end we, the workfoce, have the final say. The CC work for you, TELL them that you must be consulted on all points.
As I said, tell me to butt out if you want, I won't be offended.

Fair pay for helicopter pilots,

Chopperman.

[Pat Gerard]

Leaky Valve

Thanks for your reply. To date, still nothing on the Scasta notice board and no one seems to know about it.

Not very surprising, as we found out that offshore allowances or Scasta per diem allowances, wich have not changed for years, were not even part of the pay talks between Balpa and BHL.

[paul cook]

Inspector Lustrade and others
I am using my own name because i have nothing to hide, you know who i am and what i do, if you have a problem with your CC the Phone No's and e-mail addresses are available throughout the company, contact one of us and find out (if you are a member)why we do what we do.
The text of your post is guesswork and must be viewed by all as just that, you could not be further from the truth.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM CALL ME
Regards
PC

[paul cook]

Speak to a CC member and find out

[Speedwing]

There is now a BALPA Rep at each base in UK and they have been sent details of an e-mail list started by the Bristow CC for members to "communicate" more, both with the CC and also amongst themselves on relevant topics.

In case your Reps have not yet put details up on the notice boards, then here are the details:

To join this list you must be a Bristow employee and be a member of BALPA. To join send your Name, BHL Staff No and BALPA Mem No to [email protected]

[Speedwing]

There is now a BALPA Rep at each base in UK and they have been sent details of an e-mail list started by the Bristow CC for members to "communicate" more, both with the CC and also amongst themselves on relevant topics.
In case your Reps have not yet put details up on the notice boards, then here are the details:

To join this list you must be a Bristow employee and be a member of BALPA. To join send your Name, BHL Staff No and BALPA Mem No to [email protected]

Once your details have been checked against the staff and membership lists, you will be sent a welcome message. This will give you full details of the e-mail address to use for posting messages and also the website address if you do not wish to have your Inbox full of e-mail.

Any messages left on the list/website can ONLY be viewed by registered members.

If you want communication, then you should join this list, as the CC will NOT discuss any items on an open forum such as Pprune. You never know who is listening :)

[Ally1987]

You are kidding yourself if you think that will stop the management from finding out what's going on. No doubt some mole will tell them evverything that's happening on your list.
The only losers will be other pilots outside your company who may be able to use the information.

[bovinedude]

Is it really necessary? We have just agreed a pay deal which gives us the same pay no matter what UK base we fly from. So why now do the CC want to drive wedges between us by paying more for deck landings/sectors flown/earlies/lates/bacon butties consumed etc? This is madness. What we (the members) want is a salary that properly recompences us for the job we do. Come Summer 2004 a year 15 Scotia Captain will be paid approx £73k. This I believe is where our CC should be directing their efforts. Am I alone?

[Brother]

No, you are not alone.

This whole time and motion study is nosense. While a 15 year Captain might be on 73k per year in 2004, we should all be earning that now. Many of us already have 15 years, we are using that hard won experience out there everyday, why wait until 2004?

To try isolate pay for more deck landings etc is not justifiable unless the ABZ based guys get a helicopter long haul allowance.

Sure it sounds stupid but so is increased pay for lots of short sectors.

It seems to me that the most sensible thing would be to set a proper and respectable salary level regardless of the actual task you perform.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Paul,

Actually, I'd rather they continued to write like this. It all helps people who are considering entering the industry to make informed decisions. Perhaps a Bristows private forum would suit you better.

[Inspector Lestrade]

A helicopter 'long haul' allowance! Gosh, how the fixed wing boys must be chuckling.

Still, sounds good to me! Although I fear there may be grumbles from the 61 fleet they only go to the Captain field can't be more than 60 miles! Does that mean they wouldn't qualify for it? ;)

Still, why split the work force on a location basis when you can do it all in the same place!

I have a feeling that I'm about to be £40 better off each month if this latest carry on episode goes on for much longer.

[JKnife]

Saw on the news tonight that Bristow Helicopters has informed staff of redundancies today. Any details on how many are involved and why they had to be laid off?

It doesn't seem that long since the last time they had to let people go.

[zalt]

About 50 at Aberdeen.

[rotordk]

Any links for the info ?

[Special 25]

Latest version is that about a dozen Aberdeen based pilots have been put 'on-notice' for possible redundency in the very short term. There may also be a few pilots from Norwich and a number of engineers but I'm not too sure of their situation.

The notice came entirely out of the blue and the named pilots have been put on leave until a decision is made allowing time for anyone to take voluntary redundency / early retirement / go across to Bond etc .....

Can somebody please remind me what we pay our dues to Balpa for ??

[Crabette]

Taken from 'North Tonight'...............what a difference a week makes! OK, so it wasn't 100 jobs (yet) but still the CEO and bean counters sure can work quick to make a decision when they want to.

22/10/2003 17:01

An Aberdeen based helicopter firm has denied reports that a hundred jobs could go following a downturn in North Sea operations.

Bristows Helicopters say its carrying out an ongoing review of resources but no decision has been taken.
---------------------------------------------

ALSO From 'North Tonight'

22/10/2003 17:07

Helicopter operations at Aberdeen have declined dramatically and last month saw figures down by almost twelve percent on the previous year.

It's thought unless there's a major turnaround in fortunes jobs across the helicopter sector will go.

Reports quoting an unnamed Amicus union spokesman have claimed that a hundred jobs could go at Bristows if they fail to keep their contract with Shell.

The firm say they are conducting a review of operations which is ongoing and no decision has yet been taken on jobs. Bristows say the contract is not up for renewal until two thousand and five and have branded the claims as scaremongering.

Amicus say they are mystified as to who the so called spokesman is. They say there have been assurances by the firm that there are no immediate plans to downsize.

It's believed the firm have seventeen aircraft lying idle, eight of them in Aberdeen. Industry commentators say the situation is the worse its been in thirty years.

Scotia helicopters are also reviewing their European operations to see if they can cut down on duplication to reduce costs.

Bond Offshore Helicopters are due to begin operating out of Dyce in the summer after winning a contract for all of BPs offshore flights from Aberdeen. But there are fears there is simply not enough work for three firms.

Bristows say the prospect of another competitor is "not helpful" in the diminishing market.



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Another sad day for the industry, let down by the management and the 'earners' are first to take the bullet. So much for 'Leading from the Front' more like 'Lead in the back'

[Cyclic Hotline]

Excerpted from this link. (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031030005849&newsLang=en)

Offshore Logistics Announces Restructuring of United Kingdom Operations

LAFAYETTE, La.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 30, 2003--Offshore Logistics, Inc. (NYSE: OLG) (the "Company") announced today that it has begun a restructuring of its United Kingdom based operations designed to reduce costs and promote operational and managerial efficiencies. Management believes these measures are necessary in order to remain competitive in the North Sea offshore helicopter market, given the current weakness in oil and gas industry activities in that market.
As a part of the restructuring program, the Company will reduce staffing levels by approximately 75 positions, or 11%, of its United Kingdom workforce over a six- month period. The Company will incur approximately $5.2 million in severance and other restructuring costs. However, the reductions will generate approximately $1.0 million in savings during the remainder of fiscal 2004, increasing in fiscal 2005, to approximately $4.6 million on an annualized basis, primarily from decreased salary costs. In addition, the Company is considering changes to its defined benefit pension plan to limit future service accruals through the use of a defined contribution arrangement and is currently consulting with employees regarding this matter. These changes will result in a reduction of benefit costs related to future service provided by employees, the effect of which has not been considered in the savings quantified above. Finally, in order to better align core competencies and management resources and increase the chances of success on future contract opportunities, the Company is exploring the possible transfer of its search and rescue and technical services operations into one of its existing joint ventures.

George Small, Chief Executive Officer and President of Offshore Logistics, Inc. said, "We regret the impact these changes will have on our U.K. workforce. However, management has carefully evaluated the Company's operations and has concluded that in order to remain competitive in the North Sea, we must take action now to reduce operating costs and streamline these businesses."

:(

[zalt]

Special 25

Was this really out of the blue (even ignoring the formation of BOH):

Flight International (30 Sep - 6 Oct 2003) in news from Helitech reported:

"Bristow Helicopters, OLOG's UK partner, is to continue with its aggressive cost-saving project as competition intensifies in the shrinking North Sea market.

Bristow is targeting offshore markets in Africa, Asia and the Americas to replace European operations.

... Bristow expect a 15% decline in market volume in the North Sea over the last 5 years. This fall gives an indication of the targeted cost savings...."


Edited addition - Today's Scotsman: http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/business.cfm?id=1199322003 Select extracts:

"BRISTOW Helicopters, one of the North Sea’s major operators, yesterday announced plans to cut 50 jobs at its Aberdeen and Norwich bases because of a 20 per cent downturn in offshore work.

A similar number of jobs could be shed at the company’s headquarters at Redhill in Surrey as part of a major restructuring of the company’s operations, aimed at ensuring its future competitiveness.

Union leaders expressed fears earlier this month that up to 100 jobs at Bristow’s Aberdeen base could be lost because of the slump in oil industry helicopter flights."


Q: Any more details on the "SAR and technical services joint venture(s)"?

[Special 25]

Zalt,

You are right of course. It could have been predicted and I'm not sure how blind we have been, but historically (and I've been through this a few times now !!) we've always had a good idea that it was coming. Even walking into this meeting, none of us expected to be saying goodbye to our collegues there and then.

There was an announcement from the Unions last week, deliberately put out to press, but that just spoke about our obvious requirement to reduce numbers if we lost a major contract in a couple of years - No particular surprise there. With the imminent retirement bulge just about to kick-in, it looked as if natural erosion of pilot numbers would suffice. I guess we were wrong, but I think its the fact that no rumours had gotten through to us before hand that has put us into shock.

The pensions side of things was more predictable, and we've been through every possible option there. Just a few years left to hang on .................

[BHPS]

Not sure about the surprise of pilots getting the chop yesterday, as the rumour of redundancies among the pilot force has been around for a few months now, as has the rumour that the company were going to make an announcement, which they kept putting back. The union evidently tried several times to get an answer from Redhill as to their future plans and were told absolutely nothing. The first they evidently officially knew of anything was on Wedenesday morning when they were invited to be at Redhill for a briefing yesterday morning.

What gets me is that the majority of the pilots given notice are junior captains promoted within the last 2-5 years, and have been in the company 5-13 years. None one of the co-pilots has been given notice.

Now I can understand cutting both captains and co's to reduce crewing, but just captains does not seem fair. This is the second redundancy that Bristow has done where only captains have been hit (of course they cost more, salary wise, which will be the stock reply), but what message does it send to co-pilots wanting promotion? Get promoted and then be in the line of fire to lose your job. Perhaps it is better to remain a permanent co-pilot?

I only hope that the redundancy package offered by the company is good enough to persuade some of those nearing retirement to volunteer to go early so that the junior captains get their positions back. They are all good experienced pilots who have been given notice to go. It leaves some very senior pilots who will go within the next few years due to retirement and some very young inexperienced co-pilots. All the middle ground has been effectively removed!

No doubt it is the plan to bring in more contract pilots rather than permanent staff when the work picks up a bit.

I don't believe in hacking those who have been in the company a long time or on age (as happened the last time), but I think it is very unfair to those who have served 5+ LOYAL years in the company to be given notice of redundancy yet younger and more inexperienced pilots remain who have only been in the company 1-3 years.

I hate to hear of any redundancies, but if there must be some, then it should be LIFO and rank should NOT come in to it, only time served.

[zalt]

BHPS

While I understand the sentiments of LIFO its side effect is a log jam in promotions that affect the survivors for years.

Meanwhile extracts from Evening Express Story: BRISTOW WIELDS JOB AXE 31/10/03

"About 50 jobs face the axe between the company's bases in Aberdeen and Norwich. At present, 443 people are employed at the Granite City base and 49 in Norwich. The company's corporate HQ in Redhill, Surrey, which currently has 74 employees, is also in line for significant cutbacks."

"Posts will go across the board, from management down. The firm is also to look at the possibility of relocating people with other job opportunities where possible."

"Fiona Farmer, regional officer with the Amicus union, said: "We are in negotiations with the company. Hopefully, we can avoid compulsory redundancies." She added that there was no definite timescale to the progress of negotiations, and said: "We want to minimise any compulsory redundancies and that may take longer than any predicted timescale the company may want to impose on us." Ms Farmer added the announcement of job losses had not come as any great surprise to staff. She said: "There is an ongoing downturn in activity in the North Sea. You don't have to be a genius to see it's going to impact on companies that provide helicopter services." Bristow's flying hours in the North Sea have decreased by about 20 [%] within the last two years."

[BHPS]

zalt

"While I understand the sentiments of LIFO its side effect is a log jam in promotions that affect the survivors for years."

Sounds like a management answer that one!

What's the point of promoting people just to make them redundant a few years later? There is no loyalty returned by the management to those that have been loyal to the comapny for a number of years and have proven themselves. That's not to say that the less experienced co-pilots aren't loyal, but they haven't gained the experience that the guys in the middle have. There is still a log jam because there cannot be any more promotions for several months or probably for a few years because of the redundancies or until the older guys retire. To me it just seems a great waste of valuable experience.

I only hope that those who don't get their job back are taken up by Bond Offshore (assuming they still want to work on the North Sea).

BHPS

[WAT curve]

When are BHL going to learn the true value of loyalty??? It is sad to see a once proud and caring company slowly (quickly) going down the tubes.

Really sorry to hear the bad news guys.

[SASless]

Neil Osborne has jumped ship to Tex-Air in the USA...Air Log in the Gulf of Mexico (GOM) has put an end to 14/14 rosters due to problems getting pilots to workover in the middle of their 14 days off. Little progress reported on the Air Log Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) for the pilots. This latest move will certainly work to improve the morale of the 75-100 pilots working the 14/14 rosters and who now get to return to the 7/7 roster. Sounds like Happy Days are here again....but OLOG stock is up right?

[Nigel Osborn]

Please note Neil Osborne is not related to me.:ok:

[Droopystop]

Bristow loose pilots, Scotia loose major contract.

Have the North Sea pilots shot themselves in the foot by demanding huge pay rises???

The oil companies must be rubbing their hands - North Sea prices will be coming down.

[Crabette]

BHPS
Fair call on those targeted, perhaps even a reversion in rank back to SFO/FO to fill those places held by the present ‘newbies’. At least it would have given those short listed a slightly more just reward for time served & loyalty. ‘LIFO’ would have been satisfied (albeit unfortunate for those on that list) The company would then have retained highly qualified & experienced staff and been better placed to expand to market forces should things change?

Perhaps it’s a simplistic view? A colleague inside believes, the real issue is that these redundancies are the smoke screen for the OLOG/Bristow management to bin the Final salary scheme once and for all (the big picture) Losing 15 or so Captains on that scheme will help no end as well. Top brass KC & AB will get their bonuses in OLOG shares for doing so, the books will look great.

Just a pity that the respective unions were not used to better effect in a joint effort to ‘restructure’. Effective Communication Policy is just that, not a couple of words strung together, what a waste of those MBA’s.


The full OLOG release:


Offshore Logistics make 75 redundancies in UK restructure
Source: Offshore Logistics
31 October 2003
LAFAYETTE, La. Oct. 30, 2003--Offshore Logistics, Inc. (NYSE: OLG) (the "Company") announced today that it has begun a restructuring of its United Kingdom based operations designed to reduce costs and promote operational and managerial efficiencies. Management believes these measures are necessary in order to remain competitive in the North Sea offshore helicopter market, given the current weakness in oil and gas industry activities in that market.
As a part of the restructuring program, the Company will reduce staffing levels by approximately 75 positions, or 11%, of its United Kingdom workforce over a six- month period. The Company will incur approximately $5.2 million in severance and other restructuring costs. However, the reductions will generate approximately $1.0 million in savings during the remainder of fiscal 2004, increasing in fiscal 2005, to approximately $4.6 million on an annualized basis, primarily from decreased salary costs. In addition, the Company is considering changes to its defined benefit pension plan to limit future service accruals through the use of a defined contribution arrangement and is currently consulting with employees regarding this matter. These changes will result in a reduction of benefit costs related to future service provided by employees, the effect of which has not been considered in the savings quantified above. Finally, in order to better align core competencies and management resources and increase the chances of success on future contract opportunities, the Company is exploring the possible transfer of its search and rescue and technical services operations into one of its existing joint ventures.
George Small, Chief Executive Officer and President of Offshore Logistics, Inc. said, "We regret the impact these changes will have on our U.K. workforce. However, management has carefully evaluated the Company's operations and has concluded that in order to remain competitive in the North Sea, we must take action now to reduce operating costs and streamline these businesses."
Offshore Logistics, Inc. is a major provider of helicopter transportation services to the oil and gas industry worldwide. Through its subsidiaries, affiliates and joint ventures, the Company provides transportation services in most oil and gas producing regions including the United States Gulf of Mexico and Alaska, the North Sea, Africa, Mexico, South America, Australia, Egypt and the Far East. The Company's Common Stock is traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol OLG.
Statements contained in this press release that state the Company's or management's intentions, hopes, beliefs, expectations or predictions of the future are forward-looking statements. It is important to note that the Company's actual results could differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statements. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements contained in this press release include the possibility that the Company is unable to achieve the cost savings and the operational and managerial efficiencies anticipated, that the cost of the restructuring program exceeds managements estimates, that the Company is unable to effect changes to the defined benefit pension plan which would reduce its future benefit costs and finally, that the possible transfer of search and rescue and technical services into a joint venture does not occur or even if it does, that the Company is unable to achieve a more aligned management structure and the joint venture does not experience an increase in the success rate on winning new contracts. Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements is contained from time to time in the Company's SEC filings, including but not limited to the Company's report on Form 10-K for the year ended March 31, 2003 and the Company's report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended June 30, 2003. Copies of these may be obtained by contacting the Company or the SEC

From the Bristow website......

EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES


When you choose to pursue a career with Bristow Helicopters or any of its affiliates, you will have the opportunity to work with some of the most highly regarded helicopter service industry people in the world today. As part of the Offshore Logistics Group, Bristow Helicopters strives to conduct its business in an atmosphere that emphasises trust, integrity and respect with results. The Company works together with a firm commitment to safety, reliability and value for its customers. When evaluating prospective employees it seeks those with experience, intelligence, energy and motivation. If you wish to work as part of a team that places customer service and excellence of performance as the cornerstones of its business, we invite you to contact our Human Resource Department.

Varieties of opportunities occur in clerical and professional posts and experienced pilots and engineers are frequently required in locations around the world. During times when no vacancies exist you may still send a resume to our office for retention on file and consideration for future opportunities.
For more information about specific job openings.....................blah,blah

[BHPS]

Crabette

Yes, I agree that even reversion to SFO/FO would be a better option than no job at all. However, your colleague's belief really appears to be the motive here. Wonder where that atmosphere of "trust, integrity and respect" from the management was? The staff show it every day, shame that some of the senior management cannot return it!

Droopystop

Sorry, but you've got it wrong. The pilots only wanted to get themselves back to a level which they enjoyed many years ago (ie equality with their fixed-wing brethren) but had been denied due to the cost-cutting tactics used by the oil industry so that they themsleves maximise their own profits!!

The loss of contracts and jobs is all due to the oil compnaies, or rather one in particular, who want to bring in a new operator on the North Sea when there isn't room for one. That particular oil company since ordering the aircraft it thought it would need for the third operator, has reduced its own commitment in the North Sea so that it doesn't even need all of them now! Yet again the oil companies themselves are to blame here, not the contractors.

[Helibusdriver]

Hi

Nothing seems new about this latest development with BHL. Management is trying to maintain profit margins at any cost to the employees and their families.:(

However, all of us flying the North Sea need to keep in mind that this kind of uncertainty will exist from day one till we retire.

Remarks that salary increases have led to this seems based on lack of know-how about the business. The oil companies have downsised drilling activities in both the UK and Norway. I believe no one in his right mind would claim that this is related to the less than 1 % of field operating cost of helicopter transportation/shuttle/SAR.

It is imperative that both we as employees, management and owners alike stay cool till the tide turns. Remember: "Tough times never last, tough people do.":cool:

As far as LIFO, this seems the only fair way to deal with redundancies. The long term loyalty of the employee should be rewarded by increased job security as time goes by and you move up the seniority list. Even if I am a younger pilot, I fully support the seniority system, and hope to be supported by it one day, if push comes to shove.

Best of luck to North Sea colleagues in BHL!:ok:

[Helibusdriver]

Hi PF

You should research carefully before deciding to accept any offers from "new" Bond. Lots of rumors fly, about terms and conditions not being very attractive for pilots desperate for a job.

Pilots with Command experience on the AS332L-series would probably fare well, while the rest might easily be slumming it.

Keep in mind the last time around, Bond was not a pilot's best friend, especially if you elected to use your right as a free citizen to join BALPA.

Best of luck to you!

[Camp Freddie]

Mr P.fate.

just my opinion but I think you are completely wasting your time even visiting scotland without a UK or JAR licence and even if you have that you should get a IR added to it (at your own expense)over here to to get nearer the front of the queue. which would obviously be an expensive high risk strategy.

even if they were recruiting (which they arent, the opposite in fact), I dont think would be interested at all in you with an FAA licence and would not be interested in the conversion as they have plenty of people with UK/JAR licences on their books.

yeah one of the operators arranged for a UK validation for 2 canadians once, but that lasted less than 1 year, and that was 2 years ago.

a bit depressing I know, any one working for CHC or BHL care to disagree ?

[BHPS]

Professor Fate

As you may have ssen on another thread, Bristow have just announced redundancies, and CHC-Scotia are likely to release pilots as well as the time gets nearer to them losing the BP work they have. Most, if not all of those pilots will very likely be looking to Bond to get work, and they will all be well qualified with plenty of North Sea experience. Prospects for new pilots trying to get in to the industry aren't looking too promising at the moment.

However, this industry turns around very quickly and who knows what next year may bring. Just be warned that a career on the North Sea is certainly NOT a job for life.


There are rumours around that Bond will not be employing anyone known to be in BALPA. Anyone care to comment?

[MaxNg]

BHPS

Bonds Chief pilot was a member of BALPA, when he worked at CHC scotia.







:rolleyes:

[bovinedude]

Last in first out is indeed the fairest way to proceed.

However in this case it appears that it is not strictly being applied.

Training Captains (Type) appear to be ring-fenced and exempt!:confused:

[Droopystop]

BHPS

You are right - NS pilots should maintain parity with their fixed wing cousins, but you miss my point. The oil companies watched as Bristows and Scotia put their prices up and started to make a decent profit. They then watched as pilots and engineers asked for a pay rise. They even watched as strikes were threatened. They must have thought that the country was returning to the 70's. So it is no surprise (to me at least) that they go to great lengths to protect themselves against a future cost rise. Hence the iminent arrival of Bond back in the NS. 10 year contract with a company that is rumoured to not entertain Balpa members. BP must be sitting very smug at the moment.

Helibusdriver,

I dont know how accurate your 1% is, but it matters not. Big companies (like the one you work for) are split up into small units who are responsible for their own budget. So the President for Logistics or whatever he/she likes to call themselves has one objective - cut logistic costs while maintaining the required level of service. They do not care what their savings mean in the whole scheme of things. They only care that at the end of the year they are seen to have earnt their huge bonus for doing a good job.

I cannot believe that there are discussions about the fairest way to make redundancies. There is no way on this planet that Redundancy is fair, which ever way you do it. The sad thing is that the people who really are responsible for redundancies are going to get their share bonuses and a pat on the back from the shareholders for doing a good job. DOING A GOOD JOB!!!??? If management were doing a good job, redundancies wouldnt be necessary.

[BHPS]

Droopystop

Had you explained yourself a little more clearly in your earlier posting it would have helped. However, oil companies don't just do these things to aviation companies, they do it to all their contractors! If contractors raise their prices then staff are going to want a share of that extra profit. Why should they just sit back and let all the bosses and shareholders have it instead?

However, I do agree with the last couple of sentences in your last paragraph.

[MaxNg]

Stop press


CHC Scotia's Chief pilot (the replacement for the chief pilot that resigned recently to join the new Bond operation) has just quit also to join bond.

If any of you wanabees has hopes of Bond employment you had better get yourselves an Chief pilot endorsment.



:O

What info did he have that made him jump ship after only 17 days in the hot seat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:suspect:

[chopperman]

CHC Scotia's Chief pilot (the replacement for the chief pilot that resigned recently to join the new Bond operation) has just quit also to join bond.

Wise man.

Fly safely,
Chopperman.

[DeltaNg]

Unfortunately, after all these years, nothing changes on the
north sea, and the same old problems keep
occuring time and again,the same wheels just keep getting
re-invented but at the end of the day are going nowhere.
The North Sea is a dying industry, and before long the good old
NS pilot will have to check the pax in, load up the bags,
fill it with fuel, push it out to runway 34 to save fuel, and
start it manually to save electricity. After an 8hr flying day (eating his own packed lunch) he'll then drive everybody home and just have enough time to wash the helicopter for the next day.

I hope I'm wrong!!!!

[chopperman]

Who are these chiefpilots.Was one of them Lord Melchet.
You got it in one. The second one was his deputy at Scotia.

Chopperman.

[PaperworkPilot]

First everyone jumped on the bandwagon, slagging the big operators in the North Sea (CHC and Bristow) despite the fact that they are the top payers and are unionized operations.

Then everyone jumped at Bond because they were a non union shop.

Now everyone is pleased that people are leaving the big guys and moving to a non union/anti-union operation.

Am I missing something here?

[Quisling Helikopter]

try the Depressin' Journal

[FD2]

A friend 'up north' tells me that there is lots of bad feeling amongst Bristow staff at the moment after some heavy handed stuff from their managers - thought they were all happy after their recent pay rises. Maybe the company wants the money back!!

[bondu]

In response to FD2's comments, yes there is LOTS of unrest at Bristow! Apart from the threat of making 14 Captains redundant, the company are imposing swinging reductions in Loss of Licence insurance (as well as the tax and NIC problems), and have now informed the BALPA company council (CC) that there are more problems with the final salary pension scheme! The CC has serious concerns about the timeframe of the pension problem.
The company proposal for LoL is totally inadequate.
At a recent meeting of the BALPA members in Aberdeen (a substatial percentage of all pilots), the CC chairman was able to quell the unrest. After these latest threats, the troops will not be calmed down so easily.
In fact, I believe that a consultative ballot for industrial action is just around the corner. With the pilots at Air Logistics having major problems with Bristow's parent OLOG, over in the US, it is quite possible that industrial action could occur on both sides of the pond. What will the OLOG shareholders think then?
Watch this space!!:mad:

[Fatigue]

I would LOVE to see loads of the guys finally go fixed wing cos the've had enough, and watch those greedy, useless :mad: in Bristow management struggle to fulfill the contracts once and for all. What a wonderful christmas those pilots are going to have with redundancy in the back of their minds. I hope those in charge sleep well at night. Oh, by the way, if you can't get pilots to go to Nigeria then pay TONS more because its a SH*THOLE:*

[TomBola]

So now the pay in the North Sea is so high that more people are to be made redundant - at least that's how it seems to read on other threads on this forum.
Many of us in Nigeria are much happier than we ever were in the North Sea, despite your perception of our low pay. However, many here are also now wondering about the threat of redundancy with CHC taking over ACN. The average age of pilots in ACN (as in so many places these days) is well in the 50s, with quite a few over 60 and CHC limits seem to be only 60.
Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of sympathy with those facing possible redundancy just before Christmas and I think that Bristow is nothing like the company it was in the 70s when old man Bristow knew almost all of the pilots by name. In those days the company had amongst the best loss of licence and pension schemes in the business. Unfortunately it seems that, despite what I've been reading about BALPA on another thread, they haven't really helped much, except for getting a salary increase.
I think one of the problems for all of us in the industry is the increasing demise of the smaller companies as they are all gobbled up by the big 2, OLOG and CHC. Unfortunately, going fixed wing may increase salaries, but many of my friends who are now working for the likes of My Travel are also wondering if they will be in employment next year. Longt-term job security in this industry has not improved in the last 30 years:{

[thechopper]

Will the company be around for another 100 years for management to "re-earn" the trust they "managed out of the workforce in the last few years.
Leadership gone down the drain and they can't face the music.
:} :} :}

[FD2]

Thanks Bondu - it looks like there is more going on there than meets the eye - maybe they want some money back for their bonuses. I must stop being such a cynic...

Gossip has it that the Shell contract was actually LOSING money in the southern sectors - surely some cock ups there if true! However, it might mean very little cash being shipped back to the States each month and some pressure being applied from that side of the water to bump up the figures...

[waverider]

When I started flying the North Sea for Bristow it was a hic little operation flying out of a small Scottish aerodrome. The people who turned it into what it was when OLOG came on the scene, the biggest and best helicopter operator in the world ( if Carlsberg made helicopter operators it would have been Bristow) , are now being screwed by the greed of management and shareholders. The management may be good at counting the money but have no idea how it is made. They do not understand the skill levels required to make a helicopter operation work. Maybe it is time to show them how little money they will make without a skilled workforce.

[Thomas coupling]

Although I'm not an afficionado of offshore flying, particularly in the far north; it seems you boys have gone through a lot to reach the standards recently achieved. Now it all seems like a sham as the management relentlessly continue to undermine the morale of the flight crew.
They surely must think this is the soft underbelly of their operation and is therefore the easiest target for collateral damage!!!

I hope, the 'crew' are in a position to call their bluff once and for all, and finally put to rest the incessant sniping that must have undermined staff morale, and indirectly - flight safety????

Good luck and best wishes...............

[PaperworkPilot]

The major oil companies squeezed their contractors to reduce prices. Pilots didn't care - they whinged. The operators faced new non union competition in every major market. Pilots didn't care - they whinged. The manufacturers continue to drive up the costs of equipment and support. Guess what pilots did.

Remember this - your allegience should be to the company you work for first - not BALPA. Do you really think that the management of Bristow is going to lose money just to spite the pilots. It's time to grow up people. It's a whole new world out there and it's only going to get tougher.

It is time to stop whinging about Bristow and ask yourself - did I do all I could do to help. To date, I doubt it.

[Thomas coupling]

What a twisted and disturbed way of looking at the problem!

[thechopper]

Paperwork,
come on over and help us out here; think we need some real tough cookies to show us how it's done in the real world.
You seem to know.:yuk:

[sugar bear]

We had found here in the states that the LoL insurance had so many loop holes for the insurance company that most of the claims were denied due to other reasons. i don't know if it is the same there or not but the insurance companys were from Britian. On the 14 Captain being layed off if the work goes away, how can you justify keeping them working.? :confused: But on the other hand I hate to see anybody out of work.

[bondu]

I feel I must reply to PaperworkPilot. The only allegiance I and my colleagues have these days is to ourselves and our families.
We are long passed the time when we may have some allegiance to the company, whichever one you care to name. As for BALPA, allegiance doesn't come into it: members pay BALPA to assist them when necessary. Pilots are paid by the companies they work for; that's the only possible reason for any allegiance that may remain!
As the new Gen Sec of BALPA recently said,
"Pilots have laser-like minds - very sharp but bloody narrow!"
Look around you, only those pilots in organised groups get the best terms and conditions. To say the company wants some of the payrise back, is probably true. But other companies pay handsome salaries AND have good LoL schemes and pensions.
Bristow and CHC Scotia are contracted to the some of the world's richest companies, turning in enormous profits annually. These oil companies are 'captive clients', what alternatives do they have? The fixed wing airlines have to sell their wares to a public, who have a choice. But they can still deliver good salaries, LoL schemes and pensions better than Bristow's!

[Droopystop]

Paperwork

I take your point and in an ideal world you are right. I am sure that the Bristow boys and girls do have allegance to the Bristow name and provide the customer with the best service possible. However, judging by what others have posted, there would be more willingness to work with the management to get through this sticky patch if management showed some respect for the people who actually generate revenue. Good companies need teamwork. Sounds like that is what the Bristow management lacks.

[unbridled]

Droopystop - therein lies one major problem. Bristow management believe that they are the people who actually generate revenue.

[thechopper]

Management might soon try to get a crash-course on how to fly helicopters. Pilots may be bad managers (if outside the cockpit) but I would hate to be a Pax in a helicopter flown by any of our present managers.
Brace!Brace!Brace!
:yuk: :yuk: :}

[BHPS]

The problem is, there seems to be a hidden agenda here that not even middle management know about. The latest problems to hit BHL are not just generated by downturn in the oil industry, higher salaries, BP bringing in a third operator just because they want their own toys, or the UK government making swinging tax policies which caused the bigger oil players to cut down their operations in the UK Sector.

This is being led in my mind by the masters in Louisiana (they might only own 49% but NOTHING is done over here without their say-so). Bristow had a good profitable operation world wide but now has hardly anything to its name as it has all gone across the pond. The American's want all the profits to go to them and they will asset strip Bristow any way they can.

It isn't just Bristow that is having problems, CHC-Scotia and other European CHC operations are going the same way and soon there will be ONLY two oil players, CHC and OLOG!

It will be interesting to see where the CEO of Bristow and the HR Director go after they leave Redhill. Any bets on nice cosy posts in the US? Mind you the previous European Manager for Bristow who came over from the US and sorted the mess out then, has now left OLOG for other things. Wonder what he knows?

[disstings]

I think the guys working for Bristow, all at one time thought, or knew, that they were working for one of the best helicopter companies in the world.
How things can appear to change. I understand that they haven't had a successful bid in nearly 10 attempts recently (maybe one small one). Insiders say that it's purely on cost. So where is the company failing? The competitors have the same salary structure for pilots and engineers.
Perhaps it's time to get people from the sharp end in to win contracts again.....it used to work....and this system of suits doing the job would appear to be destroying a well respected company. The workforce stays loyal to a name up to a certain point.
To rub salt into the wound, I believe they're also training new Bond offshore co-pilots, giving new Bond a hanger in Aberdeen, and letting new Bond use their passenger terminal. But maybe that's another story.

[simfly]

It isn't just Bristow that is having problems, CHC-Scotia and other European CHC operations are going the same way and soon there will be ONLY two oil players, CHC and OLOG!

Totally agree that 3 operators won't work, but I'd put my money on CHC and Bond. When Bond starts expect some movement of some sort, as until then there can never be only 1 operator. But who knows.....

[magbreak]

Management might soon try to get a crash-course on how to fly helicopters.

Must have changed since I left as most of the managment were pilots.

[BHPS]

Totally agree that 3 operators won't work, but I'd put my money on CHC and Bond.

Do you honestly believe that the oil companies will only allow two operators after what BP has done? After all, Bond will work for BP and its affiliates and CHC the rest with your suggestion. I cannot realistically see all the oil companies other than BP using CHC, can you?

[S76Heavy]

The fact remains that the oil companies are willing to throttle the operators close to death just to save a few bob. The fact that the stress on the operator's staff is detrimental to flight safety seems not to bother them. What I'd like to know is whether the oil company can be made accountable for any harm that results from overstressed crews and engineers making a mistake and killing people, or whether they can shrugg it off and simply blame the operator. Just how far does corporate manslaughter go?

[BHPS]

S76Heavy

A very interesting point you make. I wonder if there is a legal-beagle on the Forum who could answer this question?

If there was a way, it could make them wake up to their responsibilities more, but I suspect that this has already been discussed with various oil company legal departments. No doubt they have made sure in various clauses in contracts that they are not held responsible in any way for their contractor's actions!

Anyone care to comment who might have some corporate legal knowledge?

BHPS

[chopperman]

S76Heavy & BHPS,
I'm not a legal-beagle and don't have any in depth knowledge of corporate law, but, I am sure I am correct in saying that should the pilot feel unfit to fly for any reason, such as stress, then he/she is duty (lawfully?) bound not to fly. Don't ask me where it's written down as I don't know, perhaps someone who does will post. Anyway, if what I have said is true, then any incident that was proved to be caused as a result of the pilot suffering stress, the authority, the company and the customer would blame the poor unfortunate pilot concerned.

Chopperman.

[Mama Mangrove]

Forgive me for my ignorance of North Sea matters, but this is all a bit confusing.
I've been reading on this Rotorheads forum over the last couple of days that the North Sea pilots are the best paid in the industry, and that BALPA has made great changes in getting a great deal for all you guys, with Bentley cars and salaries most of us can only dream of.
Now I'm reading that you guys are all stressed-out, flight safety is suffering, people are getting close to being killed and that someone needs to see if the oil companies can be held liable.
Is there some kind of reality gap here, or is there a lot that's not being said?
I'm confused :confused:

[S76Heavy]

Mama Mangrove,
what good is a decent salary if you're not even sure you'll have a job next month? There will be less flying in the future, hence less pilots required.

Also, if you look at the average age of the helicopter fleets you can expect equipment failure. If then there are no spares in stock to save money, you have a screaming customer on the phone who demands a helicopter NOW when your last servicable one just went T... up, the company is either making a loss or barely making a profit, penalties for unservicabilities are high and the contract renewal date is getting close, pressures are high to get the job done. And then it's a small step to getting the job done in spite of, or regardless..a slippery slope.:(

[Mama Mangrove]

S76
What you say is quite true, but it's not confined to the North Sea. Almost anywhere in the international oil patch where countries allow more than one operator the oil companies force them to compete against each other to obtain the lowest price. That's just plain market economics isn't it?
Most companies these days cut down on spares holdings to save money and it's sods law that the customer is always screaming on the phone just when your last helicopter went t..s up.
If you think job security is bad in the UK you should see what it's like in the rest of the world. Not a lot different I suspect. So I don't see why North Sea pilots should be any more stressed than anyone else - and at least they've had these high salaries being talked about to help them save up some money to cushion the hard times.
Sorry, I'm not unsympathetic to those poor guys being laid off, but I don't see that the North Sea is any different to anywhere else. Just as a matter of interest, are Bristow pilots on overseas contracts on the same deal as those in the UK? Are they also being restive?

[S76Heavy]

MM,
perhaps it's just the culture shock from being indoctrinated for years about the fact that safety is paramount, only to find that when push comes to shove, safety is not allowed to cost any money and just get the job done, stop bitching. And the guys who got mortgages based on the pay rise are in more trouble nowadays if they are made redundant than before.

Job satisfaction is going down the drains as they take away the tools with which we can do a professional job, so is loyalty when people are being made redundant in illogical ways and it will only be a matter of time before what's left of the professionalism goes that same way. Humans are simply like that.
And as there are numerous ways in which I can get killed by somebody else's mistake (let alone mine) and the working environment is being set up to become more incident-prone, I start worrying about these things when really I should be concentrating on other stuff like flying the damn thing safely.

I fear that it will take another accident to prove that there are limits to how far you can cut a budget and still maintain a safety margin. As usual, the important lessons will be written in blood, but it's never the blood of those faceless grey suits (just review the Aussie HEMs crash thread, looks very similar to this one, the difference being they HAD their fatalities).

It's all good and well, market economy etc. but I don't want to suffer the GoM safety record in my working area just so somone can make more profit.

[SASless]

Safety Margin?

Compete ourselves out of business?

It will take another Crash?

Screaming Customer?

The cause of the problem is staring out the mirror at you when you shave in the morning. The oil companies do not set the rates...the helicopter company does. The oil company does not set the safety standard....the helicopter company does....the oil company does not set the engineering standards....the helicopter company does. The helicopter company is made up of people.....and it is the personal decisions made by those people that determine the standard.

You accept a lesser standard....and you have now set the "new standard". The company wants to set rates so low everyone goes broke....that is a business decision made by people.

There is more to being a "Professional" than the fancy uniform and paycheck. Function is the key....form is mere flash. If the aircraft is unsafe....write up the defect. If the weather is below minimums....refuse the flight. If the company violates the law, report them. It is your neck on the block afterall.

And face it.....the only thing guaranteed in this life....and that is it ends for all of us. Everything else is the luck of the draw.

[Mars]

SASless:

I hesitated before I took the bait because, behind the irony, there is a lot of truth in what you have said; however:The oil companies do not set the rates...the helicopter company does. The oil company does not set the safety standard....the helicopter company does....the oil company does not set the engineering standards....the helicopter company does. The helicopter company is made up of people.....and it is the personal decisions made by those people that determine the standard.is too simplistic in my view!

The offshore industry is one in which the customer has more influence on the product than most. Certainly in some areas of operation, one only has to examine the contractual rates to see that a number of extremely important innovations are directly financed by the oil companies.

The reduction in the accident rate in these areas is the direct result of the synergy between pilots, operators, oil companies and the regulator. A similar approach might be useful in other areas.

Having experienced a similar downturn in the past, my sympathy is with the families of the redundant staff but remember the old adage, “when one door closes, many others open”.

[S76Heavy]

SASless,
all very true, but my face is just one of the many who determine the safety of my flight. And some of the faces are very concerned about being branded as "troublemakers". Each of us can only do so much and depends on others for other critical aspects of the job.

[paco]

SASless has a very good point, and it is quite simple - the only reason the customer has so much control is because we let them. It's no different on the oil patch in N Alberta or anywhere else - no matter how many times people try to set a decent rate, there is always someone who undercuts. Having said that, there are at least 3 companies I know of who set a decent rate and they are still in business.

s76heavy also makes a good point about keeping the job.

Reality!

Phil

[SASless]

Having been Branded with a huge "T" on my forehead.....I can understand only too well the risk one takes when you make that decision and stand up to the system. The key is choosing when to make that broadjump. As the wife of one of my dear friends said...."The money is no good if you are not around to spend it...and I would rather have my husband home with me than in his grave."

Having tilted more than a few windmills in my time...singling out important issues is the key to making change. But that being said, when it comes to bad engineering practices, unsafe equipment, hazardous operational procedures/policies, then one must decide at what point the risks are unreasonable.

The engineering and mechanical condition of the aircraft at one operator got so bad for a while....pilots began to leave in droves or just refused to fly the machines. It did not make the company change its ways until the very senior management was forced to admit the situation following input from the pilots and the customer . Unfortunately for the company, a former company Chief Engineer was the new Engineering Manager for the customer and he knew too well the games being played. That situation ultimately was addressed with a large shakeup in the local managements.

Each of us has the ability to make effective change, but only at a personal cost. Sometimes it is worth it.

[S76Heavy]

I have the suspicion that the customers KNOW what's going on around the North Sea and are willfuly turning a blind eye in the hope of getting lower cost still, and if an accident happens they expect to be able to pass the blame on the operator.

I agree with everything SASless writes, but as long as there are pilots and engineers that allow themselves to be bullied into accepting conditions that are below standard, they form the weakest link in the safety system. And the difficult choice is to accept a "small" risk and continue to feed the family, or to stand up and be counted for the next round of redundancies.
Caught between a rock and a hard place trying to work out the chances of survival..

[gomex]

To all
Everyone has made valid arguments, but I beg to ask one question? Have any oil companies lost any money? Anywhere? I fly in the GOM in extremly old equipment, because the Helicopter operators will not stand up to the oil companies, and get a reasonable return on investment, and promote the safety of our industry. The pilots at AirLog and PHI are trying to force a change in the GOM. I hope we are sucessful, but it takes all pilots in our industry to stand together and make a standard that we all can live with. The Helicopter operators will stand together to keep pilots from organizing, and to tell you how unloyal you are to your company, but they will not push the agenda to improve the safety of the operation if it costs money. My loyalty goes to my fellow pilots and passengers. Tell me how loyal the companies are when they will make a fifteen plus year pilot redundant, but keep the managers that made all the bad decisions on contract bids, causing the lost money, are so they say. Lets quit eating our own, and lets start supporting our pilot's organization.

[SASless]

Gomex,

Any idea of the identities of the OLOG/Bristow/AirLog folks in management who got the huge bonuses and stock options for making these enlightened decisions? 18.5 Million dollars US seems to be the number I recall as being the bonus pool for the Senior managers at OLOG. Reckon they got more than 3.4% increase over four years lately? Did they not say at first the original pay and benefits package asked for by the Air Log pilots would bankrupt the company although the additional costs to the company was about 8 Million per year which in my alcohol ravaged brain leaves about 10.5 Million Dollars US for the management to split amongst themselves (lessee....divide 10.5 by 8...errrr....slightly more than 3.4 % of 72,000 USD for a max-paid captain at Air Log).

The Union should post the names and amounts of bonus and stock options each manager took home this year just to make things plain to the "dis-interested" public.

Maybe under the Freedom of Information Act and Privacy Act in the USA....someone could come up with the Federal Tax Returns of those management staff and post the data for review.

A short note to the Securities and Exchange Commission might warn them of "short" selling based upon "Insider Information" should the strike(s) happen.

By the way....what provoked Neil Osborne to leave the lucrative position he had at OLOG. What was it he made last year....something like 2.5 Million USD is the number I heard thrown about.:ok:

[B.L.G Bob]

Being part of the self-loading freight that use N.Sea helicopters
on a regular basis, I am quite surprised what I have read on this thread. I would rather have a flight crew concentrating more on landing on a heaving deck of a semi-submersible with a machine they have full confidence, than a crew with low morale in a
machine they have doubts about.

Being a PPL I put my own safety first and I would hope that management of Bristow put safety ahead of a couple quid. It is very easy for management to say that they do. This issue has clearly affected the people at the "coal face" and may indirectly affect myself. I like to get home every two weeks safely and do a bit of flying on my time off. Good Luck!

[thechopper]

B.L.G.Bob
maybe you should write an e-mail to that extent to the very management as they are very customer and employee orientated; some of them have even attended management training courses (allegedly).
Pilots are only after more money, but freight, espc. self-loading may just demand more safety in our safety-conscious environment.
If you don't feel safe raise your concern.
It may help all of us.

:} :}

[Terrier]

Speaking as a line pliot in Aberdeen I am not looking for more money - just to be left alone with the pay scales negotiated 2-3 years ago and for the employers to stop screwing around with pensions, loss of licence, working practices etc.

As for respect for the companies - ha, ha !!!!!!!!

The only thing holding most folk to the job is the salary - and many more are now looking to get out with the way things are going.

If the helicopter companies took their seemingly never ending recruitment and training budget (apparently Bristow have new folk lined up for initial training as co's whilst making capt.'s redundant), and applied it to keeping their pilots on, one may well balance out the other and everyones life would be a lot easier.

[BHPS]

And to add to the woes, shop floor rumour is that the HR Director is going to be the new CEO next year as the present encumbent is evidently rumoured to be moving on.

What a great way to get respect from your workforce if you are planning to become the CEO!

[js0987]

Doesn't the current contract call for layoffs to be in inverse order of seniority? Didn't the company get in big trouble a few years back for the same thing?

[onemorepilot]

Hi Pprune folks out there

Is it true? Anyone with relevant information please enlighten me.

O.M.P

[simfly]

One operator (ie CHC) would never be allowed, so no, CHC are not buying Bristow. Another operator would need to be operating, let's say it was called "blonde helicopter services", then if someone was bought, there would still be 2 operators. :hmm: :eek:

[Savoia]

Bristow Captain selected for top helicopter safety association role

24 Jan, 12


Captain Tim Glasspool, Head of Flight Operations for the European Business Unit at Bristow Helicopters Ltd, has been appointed co-chairman of the Step Change in Safety’s Helicopter Safety Steering Group (HSSG).

Step Change in Safety is a UK based partnership with the goal of making the UK the safest oil and gas exploration and production province in the world. The HSSG was formed in June 2010 as a proactive group identifying and addressing issues surrounding helicopter safety within the industry.

Commenting on his appointment on the HSSG, Glasspool said: “Over the years Bristow has developed a number of game-changing technologies to improve helicopter safety, which underpins the company’s commitment to safety for both its employees and clients. These technologies, which include the traffic collision avoidance system TCAS2, IHUMS, and Sky Connect, have been adopted by many leading aircraft manufacturers and competitors alike.

“We are looking forward to being able to work closely with key people in the oil and gas sector to ensure everything that can be done is being done to drive safety issues in the industry.”

Striving to improve helicopter safety, Glasspool is also a member of the Council of Management of the British Helicopter Association (BHA), as well as a member of the Safety Standards Consultative Committee (SSCC) at the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), representing the European Helicopter Association (EHA).

In addition to Bristow, HSSG consists of oil and gas operators and contractors, workforce safety representatives, regulators and trade unions. These include BP, Apache, UK CAA, HSE, CHC, Bond Offshore, Centrica, Maersk, KCA Deutag, Noble Drilling, OILC, BALPA, Perenco, Petrofac, TGWU, Subsea 7 and Technip.

With numerous bases around the world, Bristow Group provides aviation support to the global oil and gas industry. The company has 3,500 employees and boasts a varied fleet of around 400 aircraft.

Bristow Captain selected for top helicopter safety association role | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source (http://www.helihub.com/2012/01/24/bristow-captain-selected-for-top-helicopter-safety-association-role/)

[moriarti1023]

Does anyone know (and would like to share) the hiring process of Bristows, U.K. for their North Sea hiring. The website directs everything to the company H.Q. in Texas, and an online application.
Who selects the interviews from the resumes ? Is the chief pilot involved in the selection for interview, or is the selection handled by HR. or a hiring manager.:uhoh:

[Heathrow Harry]

Gomex wrote:-
"but I beg to ask one question? Have any oil companies lost any money? Anywhere?"

actually yes - every week right now there are companies "conducting strategic reviews" (= we're for sale), currently several are merging and others are are on the block

you probably have never heard of them but they can still be big outfits - right now most oil companies are trading on the Stock market below their supposed asset value - and that is at $ 100 a barrel oil!!!

One thing about oil companies tho' - when they decide to cut costs they CUT - right to the bone, and very very quickly

[Fareastdriver]

15th Dec 2003 03:30
gomex

Have any oil companies lost any money?


17th Apr 2013 16:09
Heathrow Harry


actually yes

That must be the longest wait for an answer to a question in PPPruNe's history.

[heli1]

Has anyone seen Bristow S-76A plus G-BEIJ lately? Last seen at Norwich ?