Virgin Recruiting

[BEagle]

Let's see. 13 x A340-600s with an option on a further 13... That makes 26 aircraft. 2 pilots on each, let's assume a manning ratio of 5:1, that makes 26 x 2 x 5 = 260 pilots needed for this expansion to the national flag carrier.

Are they recruiting? Well, take a look at : http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/recruitment_pilot_requirements.view.do

Anyone from 216 reading this..??;) ;)

Probably not as much fun as HMFC's regular trips to Al $hithole though?

[Hueymeister]

Pity...4 years too early.....bugger!

[MrBernoulli]

Certainly, there are several from Her Majesty's wonderful 4-engined T-tail noise-and-smoke-generating British Wonder Jet that have recently been offered jobs there.

[Dan Winterland]

Virgin man at 8.5 crews per aircraft. And an average crew consists of about 2.5 pilots as many ultra long haul flights have 3, sometimes 4.. So that's a requirement of 550!

[Colonel W E Kurtz]

What's the pay like compared to Cathay?

[BEagle]

Received a rather hostile PM last night from someone accusing me of being in the pay of Virgin's recruiting people. Which of course I most certainly am not. Then another from the same person saying "I really think it a bit off for you to recruit for Virgin on the Military site, as I think you are doing."

Rot. People have the right to make their own decisions; the fact that Virgin Atlantic has recently announced a huge order with Airbus and that they have previously welcomed ex-military AT pilots with open arms is hardly a state secret.... Those who have already obtained their ATPL through military accreditation - and are planning to leave in any case - might be interested in such facts.

But, of course, the challenge and excitement of a military career will prove more attractive, won't it...... :rolleyes:

[John Purdey]

BEagle,

My post was not meant to be hostile; it is just that in my day there was such a thing as loyalty. That quality was much prized, and saw us through some rather difficult times.

If you wish to recruit for civil air, good luck to you; but if you do so on a military thread then at least you should tell us who you work for and what you are up to. (By the way, do they pay you for it?).

Best wishes.

John Purdey

[Navaleye]

BEagle, has been a particpant on this board for a long time. All he has done is point out what is happening in the civil space while the Govt is cutting back military spending. Sorry, I think your reaction is completely over the top.

[airborne_artist]

JP

Beagle's profile tells you all of what you need to know.

I can however confirm that Richard Branson personally sends the Beagle a hand-written thank you note with one of these (http://www.figleaves.com/uk/brand.asp?brand=178&node_id=7) each time someone signs with his airline that the Beagle has referred to him.

[BEagle]

I wish.....!!!!

Actually I did get a nice thank you note from a totally different airline when I acted as a referee for a very sound ex-FE who had done his ATPL/IR the hard way, left the mob and applied to that company. In fact, he said if ever I knew of any more such people, he'd be only too delighted to interview them. But that airline now has a different recruiting method, so please don't write to me as it won't help!

Oh - and a bit of influence got another young lad (a civil FI) a job with an airline; in fact he started yesterday :ok:

Loyalty. A virtue much praised in gun dogs. But not obtained through shouting, bullying or threatening.....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

'Tis true - there is going to be a heck of a lot of recruiting being done by the airlines by this time next year. MyTravel aside there isn't a single airline that doesn't have plans requiring additional pilots. I can think of 5 top airlines alone that are going to be looking for 1,000 aviators between them over the next yearish.

Its certainly a lot better time to be looking to leave Aunty Betty than in the early 90's. Which is good news.

Cheers

WWW

[John Purdey]

Airborne_Artist

If that is the attraction, then why did not someone tell us earlier. We might all have joined??!! John Purdey

[Bullet Tooth Tony]

John,

I understand your point, but loyalty is not a one way street.

I don't want to send this thread off on a tangent, but sad as it may sound, my loyalty is solely toward the best interests of me and my family. I will do my job to the best of my ability and I won't knife my colleagues in the back, but I constantly keep abreast of outside opportunities as something better may well come along. This recruitment drive looks very interesting, but unfortunately I've recently accepted the FRI.

Bu44er!:{ :{

[scroggs]

Virgin already employs many ex-RAF AT pilots (including me!), and just as many ex-FJ jocks as well - not to mention a fair few ex-rotary of all persuasions, so it is a well-worn trail. As each of us approaches a career option, it's entirely reasonable to assess what alternatives are open to us. When I left, after 22 years in harness to the RAF, I certainly didn't feel in any way disloyal - why should I? I'd done more than my originally-agreed commission, and my family needed stability and a future that the RAF couldn't possibly offer. And, as BEags works neither for the RAF nor for Virgin, he can hardly be described as loyal or disloyal to either!

As for Virgin's current recruiting, Dan's 8.5 crews at 2.5 pilots per aircraft is about right - but we're not counting on the 13 options just yet! The company has been interviewing applicants for quite a while now, and the successful ones can expect a course in the next few months - if we can find the instructing staff to teach them! The ongoing requirement will be for around 7-8 new pilots a month for the next two years, as far as I can tell - and hopefully for considerably beyond that as the A380 comes on stream, and those options become real orders!

[RubiC Cube]

But ...... what if - oil prices keep on rising at the current rate, prices go up, air travel goes down????????????????????

[scroggs]

And the sky could fall in tomorrow! Let's face it, if you keep worrying about what might happen, you'd never get out of bed! At least increasing oil prices will affect all airlines (and militaries...) equally, and, in historcal real terms even $45 per barrel is about half what it was in the 1970s.

[airborne_artist]

But ...... what if - oil prices keep on rising at the current rate, prices go up, air travel goes down????????????????????

Which is why most of the anticipated new a/c are options, not real orders. Virgin are sensibly not committing until they have to.

[scroggs]

Most? The new order was 13 firm, 13 options. That's on top of 12 firm A346 orders already, of which 6 have been delivered. Of the 13 firm new orders, 4 are almost certainly conversions of the remaining options from the earlier A346 order (originally 10 firm, 6 options). So the real picture is 25 firm orders (6 delivered) and 13 options.

[mbga9pgf]

Not sure if anyone is interested, but this site seems fairly authoritative, outlining recruiting for the major carriers:-

http://www.futureairlinepilot.com/recruiting.html

Interesting to see so many carriers hiking up recruitment, even BA.

[Woolfgang]

Will Virgin (or any other big airline for that matter) accept a CPL/IR or a Frozen ATPL from an experienced military pilot?

The reason I ask is as follows:

1. An experienced FJ pilot will only be able to obtain a single-pilot multi engine IR at a school such as Exeter or Oxford (multi-pilot ME IR prohibitively expensive outside of an airline's training organization) and therfore will only qualify for a CPL/IR. This individual would only upgrade to a full ATPL once he had secured a job, taken the multi pilot IRT on new ac type and gained 500 hrs multi engine.

2. Having read CAA LASORS even an experienced C17 pilot would not immediately gain an ATPL because "it is not possible to complete an IR (A) Skills test in the C17 due to an RAF limitation on asymmetric flying in the aircraft." This means a C17 mate can't have a CAA examiner sitting on the jump seat but instead has to go to Exeter to gain an IR. He is then in the same boat as the FJ mate above and his single pilot IR on a Seneca only obtains a CPL/IR. (Although C17 pilot will have at least 500hrs ME and therefore upgrade to ATPL on completion of Airline multi-pilot IRT)

3. I am an ex VC10 co-pilot and now Tutor QFI with 1850 hrs. I am presently studying for the 14 ATPL exams and like the above, will end up with only a CPL/IR opened on a Seneca.

Will the 3 above cases get a job with a CPL/IR?
Are my above inferences correct?

[Hueymeister]

And where does this leave someone like me...4000+ hrs, of which 200 or so are fixed wing and the rest rotary..I'd like to go into fixed wing flying when my time is up...what do I need to do to gain a useful ATPL(A)?

[Pub User]

Huey/Woolf

Plenty of ex-mil blokes get airline jobs with CPL/IR. I personally know of 6 with profiles similar to Huey's. who have left the RAF or RN within the last 12 months, and who are now employed by airlines.

If your time up is soon, get on with the exams, then give AFT Exeter a ring.

[BEagle]

The Multo crew IP will probably be completed at the same time as the Type Rating. The most limiting factor for an ex-FJ pilot 'unfreezing' a fATPL is the 500 hrs Multi Pilot time. Please NB that this does not mean 500 hrs as a QFI on a 2-sticker, it means 500 hrs on an aeroplane certificated for 2-pilot operation.

Ex mil with CPL/IR, MCC etc all completed is the same as 'fATPL' held by the kiddies from the Integrated CPL schools - except that you will have a fair bit more training and experience!

As for RW accreditation towards a civil FW licence - that just needs someone in the military RW world who has a good grasp of JAR/FCL to propose something to the Authority for consideration......

[scroggs]

I'm not an expert on the licensing details, but I left the RAF with a full ATPL - however, I did the IR on the mighty Workules. As technically you'd be in exactly the same situation as the many FJ pilots we've recruited over the years, I'd say the answer is 'yes'! Having said that, our recruiting blurb does state ATPL required. I think this is one for directly contacting your target airline - but I doubt it's a problem.

[Dan Winterland]

Although not now working for Virgin but recruited for Virgin after Scroggs, fATPL not a problem. But must have 2500 hours min - factored with taxying hours as per LASORS is OK. However, two years ago they weren't keen on rotary hours. In fact, they didn't count them at all. Sounds harsh, but the reasoning was that if you were only doing a landing a month on Ultra Long Haul, you had to have a good experience base to start with.

Scroggs should be able to check if this is still the case.

[GeeRam]

Any body know whether ex-Lightning and F15 driver, Bob Bees is still flying B.747's for Sir Richard's outfit....?
Got a surprise back in 1999, when I heard the FO announcing his name along with all the other pleasantries on a flight I was on to LAX from LHR.......hmmmnn.....I thought, I wonder if it's that Bob Bees ?

Sure was, when I collared him at LAX baggage collection, I think he was more surprised at being recognised by one of his passengers...........:D

[hoofhearted]

Capt. Bob Bees now. On the B744.:D

[haltonapp]

Having instructed Beagle in the VC10 ground school and having flown with him as a member of his crew I do not think heis as bad as everyone says he is.

[BEagle]

How the very devil are you, old mate? Glad to see you're still flying a quality jet....!!

I doubt there's anyone left nowadays at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome near Cartoontown with the same level of technical knowledge that you had!