Sky News - Virgin to buy more A340-600s

[panda-k-bear]

Reported on "Sky News Business Report" this morning - VS set to order "26 A340-600s".

Any truth to this? According to many watchers here it was set to be 777-300ERs. Anybody know what's going on?

[Capt. J]

I think it is true. Read this on another forum - http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140132

[panda-k-bear]

From Rumour to News in 1 fell swoop!

[BEagle]

"A Virgin Atlantic spokesman told Reuters on Thursday the airline had placed firm orders for 13 A340 aircraft and options for a further 13.

The aircraft will be powered by Rolls-Royce RR.L engines."

Looks like the "4 engines for long-haul" slogan still holds true!

Good for Sir Richard - and hardly a surprise!

Things aren't really going very well for The Boeing Company these days, it would seem. First there was the failure to come up with a competitor to the A380, then the Sonicruiser fiasco, then the KC-767 affair, then doubts over the claims for the Dreamliner with its ambitious composite construction (and which apparantly doesn't have the right 'configuration' to be used as a KC-7E7 tanker, according to Boeing :rolleyes: ) - now they've lost this major order to Airbus.

And, of course, the A310 MRTT is progressing well having already carried out AAR transfers to Tornado and F-18, whilst the A330 MRTT has been ordered by Oz and is highly likely to be the RAF's FSTA!

[Kerosene Kraut]

Virgin is confirming it now:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/press_release.view.do?press_id=2184

[FRying]

Any chance for a Ryanair-sick pilot to join a real airline then ?

[Kerosene Kraut]

from their website:

"We are currently recruiting for a holding pool. Our minimum requirements will be: at least 2500-3000 hours total time - this should include at least 1500 hours commercial jet time for those coming from a commercial background. Candidates should also have a full UK or JAR ATPL and the right to live and work in the EU."

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/recruitment_pilot_information.view.do

You might check this as well:

http://www.ppjn.com/jvirginatlantic.html

[Seloco]

A great and inspirational press release from Virgin, focusing quite rightly on the UK content of the order.

Just a shame it appears to have been written by an estate agent: The fleet comprises of 29 aircraft, !!

[Flip Flop Flyer]

Virgin's got an ad in this weeks FI for A340 pilots.

[akerosid]

Very good news for Airbus and Virgin; good to see an airline growing; no doubt many promotion opportunities for VS S/Os and F/Os over the next few years. No mention of the 380s either; there was speculation that they might be cancelled as a result of a 346 order.

As to BEagle's comment about things not going well for Boeing, I'd have to say that this was an order Airbus absolutely had to win. Whether VS was serious about going for the 773ER (or was just using it as a weapon to pressure Airbus) is something we may never know, BUT other airlines, such as CX, SQ are actively considering the 773ER over the 346 (indeed, if rumours are to be believed, the 772LR has a good chance of replacing the brand new 345 at SQ), so the 777 is certainly winning the battle against the 345/6 and the 7E7 is giving the 332 a good run for its money. It's a very strong fight for every order and as ANZ's recent order suggested, Boeing can quite easily bring about its surprises : ANZ had been seen as a dead cert for the 332.

[bizflyer]

did i miss some recent fleet retirements? if not why no mention of the classic 742 aircraft in the press release, surely they would be included in the average fleet age, a convenient oversight or am I ill informed? Otherwise bravo, good to see investment in UK manufacturing.

[NigelOnDraft]

bizflyer...

Don't think VS haven't had 742s (or 741s!) for some time.

The odd one you see in VS colours is someone else's - Air Atlanta? Used to (still does?) the LOS run?

I think...!

NoD

[no, no, no]

I've just posted this in a different forum, but will post the same questions on here....

I'm just going to ask a couple of key questions from this press release (the full one is on their website):

• they want to develop key business routes out of LHR - to order this amount of aircraft, and talk about routes like Chicago, Toronto, Mumbai, Dubai and Bangkok means they have serious intentions for a proportion of these aircraft to go to LHR - but to do this they must have an inclince that they will get more slots.....

WHERE WILL THE SLOTS COME FROM????


• they will build on the success of Virgin Holidays huge success in the leisure market by adding significant capacity out of Gatwick and Manchester!

Don't bmi operate most of the leisure routes out of Manchester - ie Caribbean, Vegas (both key VS hunting grounds).... Are they intending to take bmi out of the equation from Manchester?????

All I can think is watch out bmi, BA and all the overseas airlines... Virgin are coming!

[panda-k-bear]

akerosid,

I think "winning the battle" is overstating the truth a tad, don't you? Look at the orders for A3456 and 773ER and 772LR. Count the number of aircraft and the number of carriers for each, and I think one will probably find that if there is a winner, the A3456 is probably it right now.

SQ, though, can change all of that..... It depends if they want to have a sole manufacturer for the airframe or a sole manufacturer for the engines, I suppose. Presumably SQ know the terms of the VS deal and will use it as leverage. It makes one wonder if VS have been told what SQ are going to do...

[bizflyer]

NoD

You're probably right, it was only because I was up in Manchester a couple of times last month and remember seeing 742's on both occasions in 'what looked like' full VS colours, I think one had the VS reg G-V something or other, anyway it stuck in my mind because I thought the 742's were all basking in the sun somewhere, I'd have thought AAI would have needed to do a re-paint. Anyway I'm only splitting hairs I guess.

[spook]

no, no, no,

WHERE WILL THE SLOTS COME FROM????

VAA spent some onsiderable amount of money recently on obtaining additional slots at LHR http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=944&id=74982004

[jetset445]

The 747 classics at Man are ex Virgin machines, owned by AAI and leased back to Virgin used on the Manchester - Orlando

[no, no, no]

spook - those slots were only 2 pairs of slots weren't they? And aren't these earmarked to increase HKG/SYD flights, plus being used this summer to have more BOS/JFK flights?

If they were planning to put even 5 aircraft in to LHR, then they would need at least an additional 3 daily slot pairs - are they really going to be prepared to buy these for £20m a pair - and can they even guarantee that slots will even go up for sale like what happened with flybe?????

[xyz_pilot]

Are these extra a/c or are some of the a340-300's going back as part of the deal?

[8903 HF]

If they move some of the 744 fleet to LGW (where slots are easier to obtain??) that would free up some slots ex-LHR for the new 346's.

I doubt Virgin would commit to spending $5.5 billion on all these 346's without thinking where they'd get slots from.

Of course when they buy BMi they'll have lots of slots to play with.............

[IB4138]

No repaint necessary bizflyer

The aircraft remain in Virgin livery as AAI now own them but are operating them for Virgin out of MAN.

[srs what?]

The two Manchester aircraft are in full VS colours inside and out including the modern IFE. The cabin service is the usual VS service provided by Virgin employed cabin crew and the three flight deck crew are all employees of Virgin the aircraft just operate on the Air Atlanta Europe AOC.

[Caslance]

Don't bmi operate most of the leisure routes out of Manchester - ie Caribbean, Vegas (both key VS hunting grounds).... Are they intending to take bmi out of the equation from Manchester????? Not really, no no no.

At the moment, bmi are using their 3 A330s on scheduled routes - Washington, Chicago and Toronto.

The Toronto route is seasonal, so will free up a single A330 for leisure routes during the Winter season.

So far as leisure routes to the Caribbean go, BWIA, Air Jamaica, MyTravel, Thomas Cook and First Choice are all players in that market from MAN at the moment. However, bmi - for the present, at least - are not.

[warkman]

As I understand it, the 742's will be going next year, as Virgin are going to provide full Upper Class service from MAN with some 744's .

[srs what?]

That is the case as of May but where the 744's are coming from I don't yet know. Whether they will be provided by Air Atlanta remains to be seen.

[tired]

VS bought 5 pairs of daily slots at LHR. Most of them are leased to Air France (or one of their codeshare partners) at the moment - I think they're being used to operate to Lyon if memeory serves. VS is using a couple themselves for extra services across the Pond.

The 742s at MAN will be phased out as soon as poss to be replaced by 744s - don't know the timescale, but quite a few of the crews are about to come back to the 340, so it must be happening quite soon.

As more 346s arrive, 744s will go to LGW.

At the moment VS is keeping options open on the 343s - some of the leases have already been extended, some have a year or 2 still to run, so for once there's a bit of flexibilty.

[Dan Winterland]

VS still have 5 742s on lease. 3 are in the desert, 2 operated on behalf of VS by Atlanta on their new UK AOC using some VS crews.

[keepitlit]

dont think sir dickie got enough dosh from the mob sell off to buy bmi but its only a matter of time before the two knights come to an agreement!:E :E :E

rgds K.I.L.

[scroggs]

The Manchester-based B742s still belong to Virgin (as do the 3 ex-ANZ machines still in the desert), and are leased to Air Atlanta Europe to be operated on their AOC on Virgin's behalf (the B742 is no longer on Virgin's AOC). The aircraft are crewed by Virgin cabin staff and some Virgin, some AA flight deck. They are scheduled to be replaced by 744s over the next year or so, probably at the same time as Virgin plans to add further schedules from MAN. As I believe Virgin Holidays is the main customer for the BMI Caribbean schedules due to start shortly, I'd guess that these are the routes Virgin is looking to operate from MAN.

As for new destinations from London, Nassau and Havana are likely to be operated from Gatwick. Rio (if it happens), Dubai and Toronto probably would be also. I imagine that the VS5/6 Miami would return to Gatwick to free up slots for Chicago and any further Bostons - though there was talk last year of operating LGW-BOS. SYD is to ride the back of the daily VS200 schedule for now; there are no current plans to add a second HKG. Mumbai, like Delhi, may be operated on behalf of Air India using their slots.

There is no definite news about A343s being retired. At the moment, the company seems to wish to keep the 9 remaining aircraft.

[Goodness Gracious Me]

Scroggs,

Any idea which fleet will be operating the new routes to Nassau & Havana?

[scroggs]

There is a rumour that it may be A340s, but I don't know beyond that - except that, as the 744 fleet is fully employed and likely to lose one or two aircraft to MAN, it seems unlikely to be anything else!

[Torquelink]

Verbatim remark from girl waiting in the endless security and immigration queue at MIA earlier this year in order to connect with VS to LHR, "Hope it's the Jumbo - when I came out they'd put on a horrid, cramped, little aircraft". Impartial customer comment on A346 (that's what it was) and preference for B744. Any Virgins care to comment?

[scroggs]

The seat pitch and width on the 346 (and 343) is the same as the 744. The 346, though significantly longer than the 744, is slightly narrower. It carries (with the new Upper Class Suite) 306 passengers vice the 744s 380 or so, depending on fit.

I don't really understand how the comment 'horrid, cramped little aircraft' can be justified, given the above points. And the 346 is the longest commercial passenger aircraft in the world!

Sounds to me that your girl in the security queue has a size issue of width versus length! :E

[Torquelink]

Unfortunately I never got to find that out! . .:D