Favorite Single Pilot IFR Ship

[SFHeliguy]

This one ought to get some lively discussion....

What's your favorite single pilot IFR ship?

Assume we're trying to keep the cost down and we only need about as much capability as a long ranger.

[SASless]

There is no such thing....helicopter IFR should be done in a two pilot crewed aircraft.....think not....have the autopilot or stab system go for a dump....get a change of runway...or change of clearance.....while you are manhandling the suicidal piece of metal.

Single engine IFR in a helicopter is also madness...engines quit. Generators quit....inverters quit.

If all you need is a JetRanger capability ....you do not need to go IFR single pilot....the trip will wait until you have decent helicopter weather....and if you are going to an airport....why not use a light twin that is faster....and costs less to buy and operate? Have a limo standby for the boss fellah and haul him to a fully instrumented airport.

Nope...not safe by my standards this single pilot, single engine IFR mentality.

[Hummingfrog]

My favourite has to be the AS365N2 Dauphin. Has all the kit including auto ILS, Nav Couple and route display on radar. Spent many a happy hour in the N Sea single pilot IFR with no problems.

SASless. Providing you have been trained properly and have the ability single pilot IFR is less dangerous than 2 pilot IFR. All the recent loss of control/situational awareness incidents/accidents in the N Sea have been 2 crew aircraft.

Sadly company policy and JAROPS has meant the end of single pilot IFR in the N Sea:{

HF

[anjouan]

Any single pilot IFR machine should have auto ILS, nav couple, and route display. Most of the N2s I flew were pretty crude and there's still the problem of fenestron delamination on that machine. The S76B, C, C+ or N3 are probably better machines from that point of view, but it comes down to cost as always - the equipment you'll get in the machine will be entirely dependant on what the owner/operator/contractor is prepared to pay for.

Hummingfrog - I think you'll find SASless was probably flying single pilot IFR before you even finished your training and whether you agree with his point of view or not, he's said it from a point of view of considerable experience and having given it his full consideration. Have you considered that your statement All the recent loss of control/situational awareness incidents/accidents in the N Sea have been 2 crew aircraft. may just be due to the fact that single pilot IFR in the North Sea is a dead duck? Other than the (very small) piece of airspace in the North Sea do you have any facts to back up your rather sweeping statement single pilot IFR is less dangerous than 2 pilot IFR ? :ugh:

[heedm]

Yeah, single pilot IFR means no redundancy in the weakest link (pilot). Of course, if you're flying helicopter IFR and your machine is not single pilot IFR suitable, then the question is whether there is redundancy with the pilot or not?

I say fly IFR in a single pilot certified ship, with a crew of 2 fully qualified IFR pilots.

Why stop there? Insist that they each have a spotless record with 10,000 hrs helicopter, 4,000 hrs actual instrument time, the mast torque never drops below continuous OEI, and the stewardesses are never hired over the phone.

I'm flying the Bell 412 with three axis auto. It's certified and suitable, but the electrical system requires too much thought, the fourth axis should be included and all functions of the CDU should be available on the cyclic/collective with a HUD/HMD.

Matthew.

[Hummingfrog]

Anjoan.

I thought I may stir up some controversy but while I agree that single pilot IFR is no longer flown in the N Sea that has not always been the case.

Scotia (Bond) Blackpool with AS365Ns used to be all single pilot IFR. AS365N/N2 were flown single pilot from the Tharos/40s/Piper/Claymore platforms. Bolkow 105s were flown in the Ninian/40s all with no incidents/accident attributable to loss of control in IFR.

In contrast I can remember a few incidents/accidents in the N Sea with 2 crew a/c. The most tragic being Cormorant Alpha where a Superpuma hit the sea. A S76 was lucky when it bounced off the sea at night. A rig safety RIB had to take avoiding action on a Superpuma that just missed being ditched after losing control during a rig approach in fog/mist. A S76 which was overtorqued after disorientation during a night rig takeoff. These are the ones I remember and is not an exhaustive list.

I work with a very experienced group of pilots who generally agree that when flying single pilot their adrenalin/awareness level is higher than when 2 crew. This is because you are doing everything and therefore there is no confusion or misunderstanding that may occur in a 2 crew environment despite our CRM training

My sweeping statement that single is safer than 2 crew was said a little tongue in cheek to get reaction but in my part of the N and Irish sea the facts do seem to bear that up.

As for your aside that "I think you'll find SASless was probably flying single pilot IFR before you even finished your training". Please explain how you work that out or was it a cheap jibe?

If it was true, however it would put SASless at about 65-70 by now!!!

HF

[Red Wine]

Also played with the single and dual pilot IFR stuff....and see good points on both sides of the fence.

Personally if all the Magic Boxes are buzzing along nicely, then I would prefer Single Pilot IFR......and if there not, well you should be discontinuing the attack, followed by a basic recovery home.

Not much logic in this belief, just my personal choice.

[SASless]

Now hang on a minute....my colleagues call me "Gramps" but that is in jest....(I hope!). I did my first single pilot IFR flying in '78 on the 58T...and the last in 96 on a fully kitted out 412SP.

Without knowing the the statute of limitations on such heinous acts....my memory tells me the North Scottish BO-105's were "VFR" to and from the Ninian...even the night flights...I was on 58T's for a neighbor company. We too flew "VFR" on those same runs....all single pilot. I reiterate...."VFR". (for UK readers...VFR equals VMC when translated from Redneck to Kings) I also recall a very pasty faced 105 pilot asking about the phone number for Pilot Admin in Redhill....he reckoned at least the 58T had a roomful of clocks to look at compared to the 105.

Also...offshore instrument flying is not as demanding as is IFR flying around congested airspace....but from the discussion of incidents and accidents....I begin to wonder. We nearly lost a 58T one night when one of our pilots took a walk on the wild side...and the winch man took a walk on the cabin ceiling....resulted in a complete overhaul of the helicopter.

Another BHL chum of mine...who flew an S-76 single pilot out of Redhill told an account of getting way behind the power curve and almost losing it while IFR to Paris. Workload can increase dramatically when things begin to go pear shaped.

A well trained...and cooperative crew is the best safeguard going...I watched crews kill themselves in the 212 and 412 simulator and generally it was the inability of the two pilots to work together as a team that got them. The days of the autocratic captain are over.

I still giggle when I recall breaking out at minimums at Teeside...having done an ILS....single pilot....to realize that it was the annual Airshow day....complete with a crowd of thousands...more than a few CAA types about....and a Tannoy that was spouting out the radio chat. Being the only Yank in the neighborhood that day...particularly the only one smiling at the the masses from a regal perch in the T-Bird....I always wondered how I escaped giving one of those CAA types a severe listening to.:E

[Gibbo]

Favourite Sp IFR?

It has to be the OH-58. Single everything (except precision approach, HSI), no autopilot but a pretty good trim hold, standby compass waaayyyy outside of the scan and a beaut big AI (you only need one because there is only one pilot, right?) ;)

[soggyboxers]

Hummingfrog,

As SASless says the Bo105s of Management/North Scottish/Bond were all flown under VFR (even if they may occasionally have been operated IFR!!).

The Cormorant A Super Puma hitting the sea was not due to IFR conditions, but to turning downwind with too low an airspeed in very strong winds. In the early 1980s Bristow lost one Bell 212 on the Brent contract when it was flown single pilot into a fog bank and the pilot became disorientated, lost control and flew into the sea as he was trying to turn away from a production platform. There was also a similar accident with a Bell 212 out of North Denes around that time. I also remember the case of the S58T 'taking a walk on the wild side'. I seem to remember that the pitch change rods were bent and the scissors damaged on that aircraft.

I think also that SASless has a point when he talks about the environment in which single pilot IFR is being flown. Offshore it's not really too much of a problem as ATC and track change demands tend to be fewer and most offshore rig-radar approaches are to the same format, whilst onshore SPIFR in Europe can be very demanding, especially if having to carry out a difficult approach into an unfamiliar airfield at the end. I used to fly 365Ns and AS355Fs single pilot IFR around Europe and often found it very demanding, especially if doing something like an organ transfer late at night at the end of a long day. Two pilots would definitely have helped.

A lot of the confusion or misunderstanding that may occur in a 2 crew environment despite our CRM training can be ironed out by doing LOFT oriented 2 crew training in a simulator. The simulator may not be totally realistic for some things, but for 2 crew IFR it's a very powerful teaching tool and it's a shame that your company doesn't send its pilots there at present. Maybe it's something worth taking up with your management if you're still working for Scotia.

Like you, I've flown both single and 2 pilot IFR, onshore and offshore. I also like single pilot offshore, but I'd rather fly 2 pilot IFR onshore in a busy ATC environment (as long as both pilots have been properly trained in 2 crew co-operation). My own favourite helicopter for single pilot IFR is also the Dauphin 365N series, though I'd like a 4 axis autopilot if flying it SPIFR (my company only has the 3 axis autopilot. The S76s I flew were better in that respect, with 4 axis autopilot and EFIS displays, and very stable in turbulence, but I find the Dauphin smoother and easier to fly when the 'gadgets' fail. The AS355 was nice because there was plenty of space for charts and documents.

[Hummingfrog]

Hi SASless sorry to infer you may be that old;) .

I did my first single pilot IFR in 1975 in a JP5A (RAF) with my first single pilot helicopter IFR in Germany in a Wessex 2 ( I still vividly remember that trip as the Wessex 2 had "limited" Nav aids and the crewman would sometimes climb out onto the step and knock on the window while grinning at you!!). My last was in an AS365N2 in 2003 before we went 2 crew. As an IRE I have seen pilots who can easily cope with the demands of single pilot IFR because they have lots of extra capacity available and I have also seen pilots in a 2 crew environment struggle because of lack of capacity and poor CRM.

IFR flying in the N Sea when operating to the limits - 3/4nm and helideck height +50ft can sometimes be very demanding as can on shore IFR which has the benefit of radar control and set procedures. We can auto ILS into Aberdeen but a rig radar is generally hand flown. Most of the incidents/accidents have happened on approach/departure from rigs in poor viz or at night.

I take your points about the 105s of Bond but can you fly VFR at night?

Soggy boxers: The Cormorant A accident was caused as you say by low airspeed downwind, but it was at night in an area of snow showers. The pilots would/should have been on instruments during the turn so I class it as a loss of control in IFR conditions - would it have happened in daylight?

I think that we can perhaps agree that well trained pilots whether 2 or single crew are as safe as each other.

My heart likes to fly single pilot but I also see that flying with 2 pilot has its advantages (I did 6yrs SAR in a Seaking where 2 pilots are essential!!)

HF

Anjouan any comments on my experience!!;)

[anjouan]

HF,

Well SASless is nearly thatold :D , though younger than I am. Your experiences sound just like most of us who have been around in the onshore/offshore environment for quite a few years now. I think most of we, the old (but maybe not quite so bold any more) would agree with you when you say,
My heart likes to fly single pilot but I also see that flying with 2 pilot has its advantages .

I too miss the passing of single pilot IFR, but I guess that's progress :hmm:

[soggyboxers]

Hummingfrog,

Have to admit that I thought the Wessex 2 was sheer luxury with all the aids it had compared with the Wessie 5 (all those modern high tech aids like Decca, NDB and multi-channel VHF radio). In the Wessex 5 we had a compass and UHF radio only. Mind you, to some extent that was luxury compared with the Wasp :D .

Seem to remember that you can fly IFR at night even in a VMC machine as long as you're flying VMC.

I take your point about the Cormorant accident.

I think IMC flying offshore anywhere is demanding if you have to carry out an approach down to the limits, which are pretty much universal in the 3/4 mile/helideck height +50 feet. On the simulator we get our pilots to carry out the approaches in the 365 both coupled and uncoupled, trying to emphasise that in real conditions it's usually better to let the coupler do the work (provided it's fully serviceable), closely monitored by the crew.
Onshore IFR in my part of the world doesn't have the benefit of any sort of radar control - mostly one just hopes that most of the aids will be working if one returns to an airport in lousy weather. There's also not much in the way of weather reporting!

SASless is not old, just not quite as young as he used to be! :D

It looks as if most of us are in agreement that we'd like to fly SPIFR, but there's not as much of it allowed as there used to be. We still haven't had a lot of people commenting on what their favourite machine for IFR is though.

[212man]

You would find it hard to beat the EC-155 for SPIFR; that realy is a delightful machine for the job. Great ergonomics and displays with a superb autopilot.

Unlike Sikorsky who seem to have said "how can we make this cockpit look really busy?" EC have said" how can we make this cockpit simple and efficient?" They succeded!

[SASless]

212Man....

Just how simple is it.....can you cook an engine picking up to a hover with the other one at idle? Can the screens get so stacked up that you can lose track of which one is the one controlling things?

I admit it is fast, smooth, and has the latest version of "Franco style " engineering....but is it sometimes very complicated while being simple?

Any neat mods installed yet.....rearview mirrors....hand held radio hold downs...air conditioning?

[212man]

SASLess,
yes you can reach a limitation that requires removal and inspection by lifting into the hover with the other one at idle, but then that is the case with all engines with 30 second ratings (e.g. 76 C+, 365 N3, AS332 L2 and more I imagine).

If a crew elects to do that, it is not the aircraft's fault, is it? Sounds more like a CRM issue than a technical one.

Not sure what you mean by the screen stuff? I've been looking at the screens for 1500 hours and haven't seen any real problems either in interpretation or reliability. In fact it is not the new technology that bugs the aircraft; more like hydraulic systems and fuel pumps etc.

The screen that is controlling things is the one with the green box round the Nav Source indication. It is also the one where the RCU master switch is selected to (left or right, check your gloves to see which is which!)

Rear view mirrors? Not to my knowledge. Like the 212 and 76 you mean?

A/C, well it's there if you pay for it. Two of the a/c I fly have it, but then they are SPIFR machines rather than two crew offshore utility machines. Seem to recall that the qusetion was about SPIFR in the first place.

Take it from me, it's a nice machine to operate, and having flown a 76 SPIFR from Redhill to Lagos the long way, followed by 3 155s from Marseilles, I know which was the better machine for the job.

[SASless]

212Man....

Thought the mirror mod was a cinch after the hangar mating that took place at Warri IA.

You still doing the Nigeria beat?

Must run ....off to fly a left handed 205 with a longline and water bucket....forest fire season here in spades.