Netjets Europe - Positive Aspects of the Job

[LVL CHG]

Can those pilots who fly for Netjets Europe talk about some of the postive aspects of their job?

I know that you get a lot of inherent variety due to the lack of scheduled routes but I wonder about aspects like:

1. Hard days off per month

2. 1st year pay for newhires

3. Aircraft type hired into and ability to move to other aircraft (after how many years) - how long before you can bid the Gulfstream IV or V as Capt or FO?

4. Average sectors per day vs. sit time at FBOs

5. Most frequent European destinations

If you have previously flown for the airlines, how do you view your Netjets position vs. your previous airline experience? How do you like the aircraft you are flying now?


Cheers

[Formally Known As]

No, I didn't think there were any positive aspects to the job. The non replies say it all!!

[Kopeloi]

You can also see it on the way that pilots are happy for the job and don´t care to start again a new nonsense thread about NJE...
Nikolai

[french clover]

Hi LVL CHG
A few answers to some of your questions:
1 - 18 on, 12 off
2- new hire pay: 40500 euro a year minimum
3- first aircraft type:Citation b or xl,Hawker or F2000 ;it depends on the needs
4- 3 to 4 legs a day on average
5- Most frequent destinations in the UK, France,
Hope it will help.
Bye.

[LVL CHG]

FKA and Kopeloi,

You sound bitter - probably because you were not hired by NJE.... This is an information board - I can ask this question and you don't have to waste our time with your nonsensical remarks.

Thanks French Clover. Any other Netjets Europe pilots out there want to share their "positive" impressions of the job? What do you like about it personally and do you like the aircraft you fly?

Cheers

[Kopeloi]

Dear LVL CHG,
I assume that you haven´t understood my reply to FKA. I was saying that as far I know pilots are generally happy for they jobs with NJE. No bitternes... Neither I am or was even ever going to work with NJE but I do have lot of friends there. All of them indicate that they are satisfied for the job and company and flying modern jet fleet.
I am flying a private jet and also happy for my job as it is, wonder why you thought that I was bitter?
I think that only the fellows not happy for one or other reason will write the replies like we seen on previous NJE threads , that was a reason for my post.
Life is Good!
Nikolai:ok:

[bugs bunny]

Tried to find the European web site but unsuccesful.
Do I have to apply to the US site or anyone can help me with an e-mail address in EU?
Pls,
tks,
cheers,
Bugs Bunny

[pilot dude]

Monica Gunther is the crew recruitment manager. Best email address that I know of is:

[email protected]


good luck

ps email adress is in portugal where personal dept. is located

[Haffa]

sais it all:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=52650&highlight=netjets

also search for older threats on the topic.
Not much if any has improved.

[publius]

posted 3rd April 2004 01:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1."The spirited defence of the company by several individuals is laudable, ( and is probably a company requirement when the printout is taken in to the upper echalon office is LIS for the pat on the head ! ) but in the end they may come to understand how this company operates, like many others before them"

2."Pilots are generally unhappy with items like duty times and upgrade policy"

3."The problem facing all the NJE cheerleaders here is their resolute refusal page after page after page to answer any question in a straight forward manner. This is actually a polite way of saying ducking, diving and consistently, pointedly and egregiously obscuring the truth."

4."Let's sum it up. NJE got out of the FTL's required by all other AOC operators in extremely mysterious circumstances. Working for NJE is actually a contract job with no employment law comeback."

5."ANY SANE, experienced aviator would be a fool to take the blandishments offered by supposed Net Jet employees as anything other than rose tinted honeymoon whisperings or the ravings of the terminally ambitious."

6."Finally, we at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline."

7."FTL's as I said at the outset are a matter of public record. They and the contracts are the dirty little secret missing from all these months of enquiries"

8."It really makes you wonder at the hostility consistently bandied around at those that left the company. I strongly suggest those considering applying take an hour our so to reread every single word published in the last 6 months. Not one word has been edited and the lack of honesty from NJE employees."

9."We at the Towers have to make it utterly clear the NJE are facing contract disputes taken to law at a rate a magnitude greater than we have ever seen at any airline."

PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot

Cambioso(sounds like a type of ripe cheese)

The 'Threads' found above will provide the powers that be, including all JAA OPS Authorities and Operators, who view this site on a daily basis,the sufficient material to 'Stitch' together(couldn't resist the pun) a quilt which will eventually smother and then reveal all the 'dirty little secrets', which keeps your outfit afloat through the power of the 'backhander'. .......there is always alittle extra to made on the side re: fuel, maintenance and.or handling contracts etc.

[Haffa]

Publius

What a marvelous article. Great feat of research.
Very precise and to the point.
Congratulations !

[DrDave1]

Hi LVL CHG,

A few positive aspects:

You can live anywhere in europe, as long as it is in reasonable distance from a major airport.

NJE operate nice and new aircrafts, well maintained.

There is a monthly roster.
You work mostly on a 6 on 5 off basis, the max duty days are 18 though.

Company pays 50% into your (pension) savings fund.

Lots of nice and interesting colleagues, with lots of different backgrounds.

Ciao,
DrDave

[Haffa]

DrDave1

When will you folks finally get your heads around it ?

6 and 5 DOES NO LONGER EXSIST!!!!!!!!!!

by unilateral change of contract on the part of management.
It is one of those perpetual urban myths.

[LVL CHG]

Mike,

Thanks for the great post. Sure, no job is ever PERFECT... Everyone thought FR or Easy were fantastic places to be a few years back and now look at how bad they have become. It sounds like NJE would be a good place to be given the nice, new aircraft, the ability to live almost anywhere throughout Europe, the inherent route variety in the job (won't get bored flying the same routes over and over and over) and the relatively good schedules (as you have shown us).

NJE will always have its detractors - many probably couldn't get an interview...

Anyone else with positive viewpoints of NJE? How long would one expect to stay in a Citation series aircraft before being able to upgrade to a larger aircraft like the Hawker or Falcon 2000 - 4-5 years? Flying a Bravo or Excel wouldn't be too bad of a gig...

[inca]

I see that the " King of Cut and Paste" is back. How wonderfully refreshing to re-read the comments made by someone else all those months ago. To think that when 4HP posted that thread there were no leaves on the trees and summer was just a day dream. Did you save it to your hard drive?

My heartfelt congratulations to you, boy, for your incisive, intelligent and original post. Do you have an opinion of your own? No, didn`t think so.

Please, no more. It REALLY is getting boring now.
Get over it boy, noone likes a copycat and an illiterate mudslinger. Grow up.

yours yawningly,

[pilotbear]

If I was trying to get a job with NJ and was willing to pay for type rating...which TR would be best to get?
And does anyone have a phone no for crew recruitment?

[trainer too 2]

There is no T/R buying scheme as far as I know. They are very picky and willing to invest in the ones that meet their criteria. I went to an interview with a number of ezy and ryr drivers at the time and they took only a few of us. minimum 1500 hours :hmm:

Does Haffa have reasons to be pissed of or something, get up to date info mate! :rolleyes:

ps I did not get in....:(

[inca]

pilotbear,

no TR required as NJE take the person, not the ratings.

Switchboard at NJE Lisbon is +351 21 446 8400.

Ask for Miss Monica Gunther, she is the lady who deals with flight crew applications.

Good luck.

Trainer too 2,

Nice to read a post from someone who unfortunately didn't get into NJE, but has the maturity to say so and not start slagging us off as being a bunch of amateur w...kers.

Thank you from all of us a NJE who enjoy and appreciate our job. Hopw you are successful in the future.


Publius and Haffa...TAKE NOTE

[Cap Loko]

A typerating will help to get their attention but like inca said they are looking at the person, not the rating.
I also believe that an offer to pay for your rating doesn't help at all, not to say the least that it won't be appreciated by future collegaes.

I have been trying for almost 3 years to get an interview but my background is not interesting enough for them, pitty but i will try again later.

No company is perfect but i believe NJE offers one of the best 'packages' in Europe. Good friend of mine is working for NJE and very happy.

good luck!

[publius]

Inca Dinca.....

Sorry for not responding sooner boy, just back from the far-east.

1. I do note your registered date as an experienced ppruner...LOL

2. Your obvious inexperience regarding your hard drive comment is laughable....TAKE NOTE...all posts are saved in history on this website and can be retrieved in short order.

3. The comments in criticizing my 'Cut and Paste' article, are, as you may know or not know (probably the former, giving you the benefit of the doubt) are a direct quote from one of the respected moderators of this truly amazing forum and I have never made that a secret Your comments and professionalism towards myself and the founders of this International website are sub-standard to say the least, and as far as I am concerned, you accordingly have relegated yourself to 'NJE cheerleader status', rather than addressing ALL the facts.......boy. I can only imagine your lack of self esteem far surpasses your ego and CRM skills when you criticize the 'Cut and Paste' comments from none other than PPrune Towers, otherwise known as the Dep Chief PPRuNE Towers...........good luck if you ever come up for command, you'll need it, given your lack of both fore and hindsight.

Hoping your contract is at the very least UK based. if not, keep your nose clean......remember, contracts written on toilet paper = no labour law..........(you can look that quote up aswell if you can figure out how) :ok:

[4HolerPoler]

Guys can we keep the personal issues aside & get back to the topic please. I was hopeful that something better would come of this thread but it seems to be heading the same way every other NJ(E) thread has gone.

Push & shove & taunt by PM or email please.

Thanks, 4HP

[inca]

Publius.

I used to be Mumble XP,....................................................(driv el removed)

I did ask you nicely.

4HP

[trainer too 2]

Publius, using my quoting skills:

Your comments and professionalism towards myself and the founders of this International website are sub-standard to say the least

I do not think that you come near any of the persons that you are trying to suck up to so do not name yourselve in one sentence with these gentleman.

You only had 11 posts so far all against Netjets, why? No social life, rejected, outdated info, what? Did they also not hire you or what, you keep recycling old cut and paste jobs. I used to be a big Ryanair fan at the time and have changed my views as they changed for the worst. Don't you think that a growing company can change the right way????? :hmm:

Believe me I rather believe somebody who is with the company and is happy than somebody who is apperantly not and always moaning....:oh:

Get a life :rolleyes:

[270/55G75]

I can not understand the the negative NJE replies; guys you are so frustrated about your career.

Please look at your own situation...........it's probably much worse than ours.

[inca]

1) 90% solid roster.
2) 100% back-up and support from Dispatch. Wherever,
whenever.
3) If you don't get 6 and 5, it will be made up to you in the
future. i.e next month.
4) Brand new aircraft to fly.
5) Comprehensive medical, pension schemes. Not bad
for "contract pilots".
6) Very good upgrade potential for the person who works hard
and supports the company.
7) Massive variety of destinations, whatever fleet you are on.
8) Extremely good salary for the amount of actual work we do.
9) Flying with colleagues from a wide spectrum of the industry.
The chance to learn tricks from a freighter dog or an ex fighter
pilot. Invaluable if you are serious about flying, and don't just
do it for the uniform and the money.
10) Wide variety of pax, most of whom get to know you on first
name terms. Most rewarding.


I could go on.

[Pagoda]

Can anybody say what the career progresion would be for somebody with 2000 hours total time, most of them heavy jet ( +50tons). Types and seats to start and progress to.

Is an airline background a bonus?

thanks

P

[Haffa]

Inca

Excuse me for saying so but you make me puke.
Or are you working for a different company than i am ?
How much does DM pay you to put out your lies ?

[justwhenyouthought..]

Haffa mate dont waste your breath on these guys. Some folks refuse to see the abuse that's going on all around them. They think keeping the nose brown is the best way to progress in that company. Poor blind sods !
Any criticism must be a lie.... ergo
anything complimentary must be true !

Brand new aircraft eh ? rubbish !

90 solid roster ? rubbish

100% back up from ops ? knife in the back more like !

[inca]

Haffa,

I wish I knew who you were. I know what you are, as do most who read this post. However, can't type it as there might be children reading also.

If you are so unhappy at NJE, then do us all a favour and LEAVE. Mind you, you might not have to as I know that the company is aware of the mal-contents and is actively weeding out the dead wood. See ya.

I've had a pm with the regulator on this post, and have explained that I am not into childish mudslinging but will not tolerate a misfitting loser slagging me or my colleagues off. 4HP, hope I'm not renaging on my promise, but you have to agree that this "gentleman" ( and I'm using that term in it's most loose format, just to be polite ) is contibuting a big fat ZERO to this discussion.

Gotta go, flying the 100th flight hour in my "not brand new aircraft".

Do wish that maintenance wouldn't fudge the figures in the tech log!!!

[LVL CHG]

What is the likelihood of a newhire actually starting on the GIV/GV as an FO vs. FO on a Bravo or Hawker? Has that happened yet?

You also mention that the GVs are flying worldwide, what are some places the GV visits? How far afield do the NJE GVs and F2000s fly?

Regardless of what the naysayers are saying, I still think NJE would be a great opportunity because you get two things that most Euro airlines do not offer:

1. Good schedules
2. Excellent route variety - a huge plus in my book (Moscow one day and Faro the next - not bad)

You also get to fly some great bizjets - a lot nicer than some of the junky 737s or worn Airbuses out there...

[4HolerPoler]

I would encourage regulars to avoid rising to the bait of the badly disguised lure in the last sentence of the thread above. Please avoid a shoving match.

LVL CHG, there are many folk out there who would give their left lung to be flying RHS on a "junky 737" or a "worn Airbus." Your lofty goals in life are not always those of others and you will obviously have ruffled the feathers of some of our worn, junky colleagues. Keep it nice please & avoid causing obvious offense to others.

4HP

[trainer too 2]

4polerholer,

I miss a true moderator action in the sense that you tell LVL CHG off for using bait but leave total unfounded calls by Haffa (whose only posts are anti NJ while using out of date knowledge), justwhenyouthought.. (his one and only post) and Publius who also have an obvious problem and also using out of date info.

I went to the NJ interviews well prepared, a number of former collegues went there and where very happy and thus I applied as well. Apart from speaking to them I spoke to four different crews at the RTM FBO, went to the interview and got all the info: up sides and down sides of the job.

The guys that did get through the interview and I am still in though with are loving it so far and they also made the choice from a worn out 737-200 (RYR) and from EZY. Their view was similar to LVL CHG: new aircraft and stable rosters from a planning point of view i.e. numbers of days on and off. On the day you never know where you fly but that seems to be a perk rather than a disadvantage versus 3 times DUB-STN a day!:eek:

The only reason I was unhappy with NJ was because they did not hire me because I had a bad "off" day at interview... :\

So 4PH please go for a balanced view and look at the unfounded baits left on this thread by the above mentioned!!

:ok:

[Loc-out]

I read with interest the posts, by the moderators on this forum with regards to NJE etc.

If these accusations are not true, as the Net jets cheerleaders would have us believe, then why don't NJE sue pprune? If they don't, then the posts must be true, right?

I have worked for yanks outside the US (not a pleasant experience) and I have a very good idea who is telling the truth.

[inca]

Loc-Out, a small geography lesson...

NetJets EUROPE is not run by Yanks. Its office is in Lisbon, PORTUGAL, which has been in EUROPE for hundreds of years. Office is manned by Portugese staff. Although affiliated with NetJets USA, they have no direct control over our operations.

As far as suing PPrune...why?

Prune is a website where pilots chat. The always likely admission of unhappy has beens into their posted threads is not the websites fault.

Besides, would you bother trying to find out the true identities of messrs Haffa and co, so you could politely ask them to stop being so nasty!!! NO, winners and adults never lower themselves to the tacky standards of the mudslingers and disappointed failures.

[justwhenyouthought..]

"Although affiliated with NetJets USA, they have no direct control over our operations. "



Not true !

Which planet are you on mate ?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Inca - the cheerful 'trust me' smile is just a little too tight. O'Leary tried the same technique of offhand disparagement - 'jottings on a toilet wall' Still ended up losing it and calling in the lawyers. The truth will out - it always does.

A number of significant points regarding operations and contracts have been made. It is the choice of NJE employees to never refer to them. This tells our experienced readers far more than Inca and chums can ever write.

Been doing this a long time. Watched the united cheerleading front for FR ( the most effective around for years) dissolve - the reality has now been broadcast loud and clear.

NJE - a contract job with no employment protection. This is in absolute and diametric contrast to the unionised, American operation.

If that's suits then fine. However, the thinking pilot has to work on this basis. If the entire PPRuNeing NJE workforce can't bring themselves to tell the truth about the simplest item - their contract or their hours what else might be lurking? Test me boys and girls - our search engine is very good indeed.

Your moderator and I inhabit the same world, the same FBO's and the same hotels. We spend a significant amount of time downroute with pilots and attendants from the American side of the operation as well as NJE folks.

Those of you paying attention will also know that dear Bruce H tried to recruit Danny and I for the BBJ several years ago - lucky we didn't hold our breath on that one. Interestingly no one's tried to slap that one down as me being a failed candidate - then again the recruitment was attempted in public when Danny and I were opening speakers at the Flight International Crew Management conference - lots of witnesses. Far too many to try out the black propaganda arts on my comments anyway.

Here at the Towers we allowed 3 years to pass before stepping in to comment. No change other than in the most cynical way over that period - vide the Air Luxor JAA compliant AOC and Ops Manual and its magical transformation.

You guys keep ducking the important stuff as much as you like - hours post Crossair Jumbolina report, contracts with unusual addresses and rates of pay and conditions that vary so widely as to keep it a constant source of conversation in crewrooms everywhere.

PPRuNe, as ever, makes sure the koolaide gets leavened with reality.

Regards to you all,
Rob Lloyd

[PPRuNe Towers]

Not NJE - a private one for all in our line of work: corporate/vip. Popping into crew areas in LBG, Basel, Olbia etc looking at how folks want checking and verification to work. Confidentiality is the prime issue.

10 private forums, mainly airilnes obviously, waiting in the wings but first a cull of around 30 forums to refocus the site on its professional aviation origins.

Rob

[Kopeloi]

Are pilots employed by NJE employed by Portuguese company and paying their taxes in Portugal? Where is national security charges paid, each individuals country of residence or also in Portugal?
Nikolai

[publius]

Trainer 2. Inca, and MJ.......Before being accused of being the "King of Cut and Paste"....I can't even bother me arse anymore with all ye NJE cheerleaders.

"NJE - a contract job with no employment protection. This is in absolute and diametric contrast to the unionised, American operation"

"You guys keep ducking the important stuff as much as you like - hours post Crossair Jumbolina report, contracts with unusual addresses and rates of pay and conditions that vary so widely as to keep it a constant source of conversation in crewrooms everywhere."

Next time I see DM or Warren RW, I'll be sure to mention all your brown nosing capabilities......That you even have the the audacity to engage PPRuNE TOWERS is bollocks, but sure enough, it only proves to all unsundry the untruths that lie beneath the "Great American Dream"

"A number of significant points regarding operations and contracts have been made. It is the choice of NJE employees to never refer to them. This tells our experienced readers far more than Inca and chums can ever write."

.........Inca, apart from your tacky comments you should be proud that PPRuNE TOWERS has taken the time to single you out as SO informative and honest...LOL.......MJ to the rescue.......divert attention and change the subject.......

[Loc-out]

inca

Thanks for the geography lesson. I don't know how I have got where I am, without you.

Wrong! The so-called management in Lisbon, do exactly as they are told, by uncle w***** and his cronies.

It is not only pilots (and prospective "owners") that read this forum, as I am sure you are aware. If your masters could close this site down, they would, in an instant, believe me, as the truth is bad publicity etc.

You are obviously under the spell; judging by the brown nose drivel you keep churning out.

[inca]

Loc-Out

Grow up idiot.

Keep throwing those sticks though, if you like. They're bouncing off me. Your immensely mature dialogue having the same effect.

P.s Your understanding of my post was incorrect...I mentioned that NJE aircraft operations not governed by USA. OBVIOUSLY the President has a say in various company matters. That is what Presidents do. He does not, however, draw up rosters and Ops Manuals.

[justwhenyouthought..]

INCA,

I see you have started the name calling, open your eyes and see your employers for what they are.


"Although affiliated with NetJets USA, they have no direct control over our operations. "

They have direct control, you are wrong in making that statement.

[Loc-out]

inca!

Pick those toys up now, do you hear!! Now, or you will receive a good smack!!

That's better. Now no more tantrums please. :}

[RoboAlbert]

Mike well done – I personally find it increasingly hard to raise the energy to refute any of the rubbish that appears on these NJE threads.

Pprune Towers – I think that as a moderator it would be better to let others throw the rocks. Would it not be more appropriate for you to post anonymously if you wish to censure a particular company? Mike’s analogy seems fair.

[Kopeloi]

Mike Jenvey,
Are your contract based to Portugal? How much is tax and national security charges there for average NJE pilot?
Nikolai

[inca]

Mike J

Bravo for another concise post.

Long live Pprune and it's threads. Fantastic fun this cranial jousting.

I'm sure that you like me have noticed that the mudslinging children NEVER answer any questions raised by us or the other pro NJE "contract loser-pilots". Quite a valuable pointer to their collective intelligence, wouldn't you say??

Have to say that I don't include 4HP in that group as at least he voices his opinion without resorting to name calling and immaturity.

Anyway, ignorance is bliss etc......

[WideBodiedEng]

"Pprune Towers – I think that as a moderator it would be better to let others throw the rocks. Would it not be more appropriate for you to post anonymously if you wish to censure a particular company? Mike’s analogy seems fair."
I echo that comment. Pprune Towers should be neutral. I have met a number of NJE crews in my work and have never heard anything bad about NJE from them. And no I do not work for them (well not directly!)
I suggest that Pprune Towers "moderates". After all some of his comments could cause our beloved board more problems than non-Pprune "staff" in the closed Ryanair thread. Isn't it Danny's argument that comments posted are not forum policy but individuals views, what about a disclaimer for immoderate moderators?

[LVL CHG]

Mike,

Thank you for your replies. Yes, Japan in a GV would be fantastic but I am sure I would have to wait a long time for that to happen. NJE sounds like a great place to be to me. Perhaps it is not such a great place for some people, but flying great bizjets to a wide variety of destinations and having a somewhat reliable schedule sounds like a good situation.

I'm sold!

[happyjack]

Kopeloi.
Despite asking twice I see, no-one, least of all our dear friend Mike wants to answer. Therefore I will.
No. You do not have a contract with Netjets, you have a contract with a bank in the Cayman Islands, or Bermuda, or Isle of Man, or anywhere else they can put you offshore and away from Portugal!
Why do you suppose this is?
So who exactly are you employed by? A Bank in the Cayman islands? Oh, it's payday. And your money comes from Switzerland. Which is where another company that owns the aircraft live, not Netjets, not Portugal. But you work for a Portuguese company right? Paying Portuguese taxes or your own local taxes?:confused: Arn't we all?
The term "time bomb" springs to mind.
Hope that answers your question.

[Kopeloi]

That's exactly what I was afraid of. You are right, it is a time bomb! Unreal, 2004 and living and working in EU without any formal setup.
Kopeloi

[trainer too 2]

Happy jack..

timebomb??? This is the only AAA rated aviation company in the world. Just look for the word Warren Buffet on the internet and you will find out that he also owns Flight Safety...

I used to be working for RYR and they bought a good British company under british rule (KLm Uk) and were able to screw crews out of their last penny... What I am trying to say is that it it is not what it seems that is important but why it is constructed that way. So do your research on that!

Most of KLM it's widebody aircraft are owned by Japanese companies.. why: tax breaks! The exact reason for Netjets to put their aircraft in Swiss or the guys with the CL604 to open a Delaware company in the US while the aircraft is Germany based!

On the tax base I know of many pilots who want to move their taxbase away from shore. The pilots at KLM tried (well some of them) to get paid abroad but the tax man stopped them because they had no overseas base and the T&G's in Shannon did not count (they seriously tried this to become Ireland "based"). The main attraction for me to apply was that as they have no fixed base I did not have to pay the 52% income tax for the Netherlands while living there and do more than 50% of my work abroad!

So again, do your home work please...:8

[justwhenyouthought..]

We can all sleep safely in our beds knowing that the American Automobile Assosiation has given this unique accolade to this company. It has also given that rating to several washing machines.........

and as for owning Flight Safety, well, that keeps it all nicely in house doesn't it ?

Contracts based in unusual parts of the world, making it very difficult to take action against the other party, now why do you think it is felt necessary to do that ?

The phrase not worth the the paper........ springs to mind.

[4HolerPoler]

justwheny................ you have a major chip on your shoulder sir. Four posts, all bitter & twisted. I'm not taking sides but I'll humor your ignorance on AAA ratings - plug AAA & rate or ratings into Google or another search engine & get an education.

And anymore whinging and whining without substantiation will result in your loss of privileges.

4HP

[justwhenyouthought..]

My opinions, as well as yours are, sir, are equally valid, I would suggest. The threat of losing my privileges, leaves me in awe of your power.

This forum is for rumour, even some humour, not a forum for heavy handed threatening bullying statements from piqued moderators.

Nothing I have contributed to this thread is untrue. Whinging, no, stating what I know to be true, yes.

As your questioning my education, you certainly have absloutely no right to do that.

Do your job, and stop the bullying tactics.

[Hostie from Hell]

Seven weeks and approaching 5 pages from LVL CHG's original posting......

He asked a few straight forward enough questions.

IMHO he got his answers and certainly a few he didn't ask for!
Any chance this topic might fade away as it is rapidly becoming as tiresome as the last one on NJE?

:zzz: :zzz:


:)

[F2 Driver]

All :O for me at NJE.

enough said :ok:

[inca]

Well said Hostie,

I agree completely. That's why I've stopped getting involved.

[publius]

Thank god for small miracles.

[mercuray]

Can some well informed person tell me if having one of Netjets " Light Types" on your licence makes any difference these days with regard to gaining employment with them....or not ?

( Loads of hours with Corporate & Airline background, but none of their types on my licence. I have made a few enquiries & am getting slightly conflicting feedback).

Thanks In Anticipation.

[Wrong Sisters]

Mercuray

Not 100% well informed because I resigned a while ago but I believe they still recruit the person/background and not the rating.

There's been some crap on this thread and there's been some painful truths. I was in the comapny and I'm not bitter and twisted but here are some home truths:

Then - Contract originated from Caymen Islands based on Isle of Man contract law (ie little, or no, worker protection)
Now - Solid UK contract

Then - No BALPA/Union support
Now - BALPA roster agreement and support

Then - 14 days off per year (for first 2 years)
Now - 35 days off PLUS 8 days bank holiday plus day off either side of leave taken.

Then - Scheduling messing around with FTL's
Now - No messing around as BALPA would be in like a rat up a drainpipe

Then - Flying brand new well equipped aircraft BUT Fleet Manager had to be consulted before defects put in the tech log.
Now - Flying brand new aircraft and the Captain decides what to put in the tech log and when.

Then - Flying to loads of different airfields IFR/VFR but with v.little or no time off
Now - Fly to only 13 destinations on three continents but get up to 3 days off

Then - Tick in the box training/recurrent
Now - Professionally conducted trainig - full stop

Then - worked with capable but stressed out pilots
Now - work with capable and relaxed pilots

Any regrets? You must be joking!

[Wrong Sisters]

One of my "Then"'s above was Scheduling messing around with FTL's. Whilst I know that NJE is not a UK AOC holder CAP371, the UK CAA document for Avoidance of Fatigue in Aircrews, is generally accepted in the industry as best practice.

Imagine my surprise when Mike Jenvey posted a reply (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146553&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) on a different forum quoting and linking CAP371.

So Mike and the rest of NJE just to remind you what CAP371 has to say on positioning:

"'Positioning'
The practice of transferring crew from place to place as passengers in surface or air transport at the behest of an operator.

11.1 All time spent on positioning at the behest of an operator shall count as duty, but positioning does not count as a sector when calculating the FDP."

[Haffa]

Wrong Sisters

Nice really good post.
Incidentally what does CAP371 have to say about paid vacation days. Ie. definition thereof ?
Mike Jenvey any of yout rose tinted cheerleading on this ?

[Wrong Sisters]

MJ Sorry if I have reading difficulties I'm obviously not as well educated as you. So let me rephrase "Then" ([n] that time; that moment;) ie when I worked for NJE. "Now" ([n] the momentary present; ) ie. my current company.

Haffa

You've got me going now ....

Vacation/CAP371 - does not cover as not relevant

Vacation v NJE Contract

Contract based on Isle of Man Law?

"5. Holidays and holiday pay
You are entitled to 25 days paid holiday in a full holiday year. The holiday year runs from 1 April to 31 March.......You are entitled to 10 paid public/ bank holidays per year."
Click here for full document (http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/dti/employmentRights/employrights2.pdf) So how come NJE only offer 14 days?

If its based on Cayman Isand Law, where I can find no reference to holiday entitlement, take a peek at the new Employment Law 2004 which states:
Standard Work
9 hours – day
37.5 hours – 40 hours in any 168 hours
How does NJE marry this up with the 55 hour max duty week?
Click here for full document (http://www.caymanchamber.ky/reports/EmploymentBillCompandCons.pdf)

Picking & cherry springs to mind!

Lets face it big multi nationals are good at avoiding tax and good at avoiding employees rights. Now where was I before I scribbled this? Oh forgot I'm on leave - 21 days taken this year and 22 days left!

[Ben_535]

Guys,

What on earth has CAP371 to do with INAC regulations?

Its comparing apples and peanuts.


Wrong Sisters,
What are you trying to achieve with this stuff about vacationdays regarding NJE?

Cheers,
B

[270/55G75]

NJE complies fully with FDR as stated in JAR OPS 1 and INAC.

Anybody who claims different does not know.

Positionings to and from home are paid by the company.
When working for any other comany and living abroad you position in your own time and on own expense !

If you do not agree with the contract; well...do not sign and leave.

If you do not know where you talk about do not smash any mud against NJE.

Thank you moderators to show your real personallity by commenting the way you did in this topic.

It's a shame....but shows your real level !

[4HolerPoler]

Who me? What I do wrong this time - I didn't even open my mouth.

4HP

[natops]

I agree with mike, nje is a good company to work for. The roster I have is pretty much the same, in summer the roster is more like 6/4 but from sept till may its more like 6/5 or better.

On the average a copilot will get an opportunity for an upgrade within the year. I did an upgrade after 6 months.
Tha passing grade is a bit bettter for guys/girls with previous command experience, but that is something which you can expect I think.

Don't be all negative guys about NJE!!

D.B.

[Riker]

How are aircraft positions allocated to newhires?

Let's say you have the minimum number of hours (most PIC) for any of the aircraft on the line. Is it a matter of need on the fleet or can you be given a choice? What about previous experience in type? In other words, could you (experience permitting) be placed in a Bravo or a GIV depending upon the need at the time? Is there a seat-lock for a number of years after you are placed on that aircraft?

Once you are hired and spent a few years there, do you just bid any aircraft seat you can on larger aircraft or are you expected to move to the LHS of the aircraft you are currently flying?

Cheers

[Flintstone]

The 'entry level' fleets sell more aircraft so logically that is where most people go.

Most people transfer to one of these fleets for their first command although those with significant time on a given type may move to the LHS.

This is all variable though and depends on nothing more complicated than where pilots are needed.

[redsnail]

Pretty happy with the type I got. :)

[Riker]

So, you must have gotten the GIV fleet - nice. From a quality of life perspective (schedules, time on the road, workload), does it make much difference what fleet you get on? Obviously the Falcon and Gulfstreams have flight attendants, but what about schedule and time on the road? Would a newhire on the Bravo have a much different experience than a newhire on a Falcon or Gulfstream?

For the Gulfstream, how much time do you spend away from home per month and what percentage of travel is outside of Europe/Med. (i.e., flights to North America, Asia, etc.)?

[redsnail]

GIV? Nooooooooooooo......... :E

[FLEXJET]

The Hawker 800XP is the type!
Almost as fast as a Ducati!:)

[silverhawk]

Is Bill Bradley still there? What a nice guy. Excel or CVII

Or Paulo Varelo?

[Flintstone]

Bill retired last week. He's going to grow veggies and show them at the village fete, sit on a park bench and grumble all day:)

Paolo's still around.