Jobs in the Far East

[Peter Nielsen]

Hello out there

I just finished my JAA ATPL (frozen) and I (my bank!!) need a job NOW. I don't mind where I work. Any suggestions?

PN

[Kaptin M]

Have a look at the Dunnunda and Godzone forum. There is a thread there suggesting that QANTAS is supplying 250 hour (total time) pilots to Jetstar Asia for F/O positions on the A320.
Another poster - Wizard of Oz who flies out of the U.K. - has also indicated that his company (a low cost B737 operator) takes pilots with similar experience.

So, as is usual in aviation, you may well have to "invest" MORE money (on an endorsement) before you can start to get a return on your initial outlay.
And as aviation always runs on Murphy's Law, the first endorsement you pay for will INEVITABLY turn out to be the wrong one (regardless of your choice), and you will have to fork out for another, to gain employment.

However, as the pilot shortage kicks in - and it is starting to show now - expect companies to endorse YOU, as they used to do.

[poorwanderingwun]

Can't believe this...250 hrs and an FO on a 320 ? with 250 hrs a pilot can just about recognise the front from the back...provided that the aircraft is actually flying...must be very comforting for the pax to know that on a sh*tty night at a difficult airport and with the warning panels flashing they can depend on one experienced pilot and a bag carrier.. Time for another Economics verses Safety debate methinks...

[murdoch_disliker]

Peter Neilsen,

The EU is a closed shop so I suggest you stay in your closed shop and leave Asia to ICAO licenced pilots.

The JAA licence was designed to allow only EU residents to hold this licence and therefore make it exclusive. Try asking for a job in Europe if you are not a JAA licence holder!!

So look in your own back yard desu.

Sorry

[yyzdub]

poorwanderingwun - great attitude in your posting (sarcastic). I think in the future you may want to give some more thought about what you say --- I won't even bother explaining it to you but just some advice. Furthermore, if it comes as such a shock to you that low hour pilots are sitting up in the cockpit of A320's and 737's, then where have you been? I thought it was a pretty known fact that these low timers are driving for a number of airlines all over Europe.


murdoch_disliker

Ummm, last time I heard, JAA was part of ICAO. hmmmm. Also, a licence just to restrict nationals to holding it. Now there's an idea. Having done the whole NZ/AUS training to ATPL theory and the JAA training and ATPL theory, well, I'd have to say there's a little more substance to a JAA licence than just its creation to allow EU nationals to hold it or however you put it. Show me one school where you can obtain a JAA licence training from that says, EU citizens only, wake up Mate! Furthermore, you may want to take a closer look at Asia and you will see that most are preferring JAA licences, specifically SE Asia. So, to use your polite words, why don't you stay in YOUR closed country and leave Asia to the JAA licence holders.

And to those who want to retort this, I hope you see my sarcasm here merely to make a point.

[Peter Nielsen]

Thanx yyusdub

It was my first post in pprune and I was actually expecting hepl and support and not sarcastic comments.
Since my ambition is to fly long haul heavy jet outside Europe I'm sure I will achieve that goal, weather I fly out of Singapore or Antartica.

Pn

[kwaiyai]

Hi Peter,
All I can suggest is you get writing, Something will inevitably turn up. Unfortunatly you may have to Shell out as Kaptin M sugest's you may also have to take something you may not like much. Either way Good luck, PM me if you like.
Regards,

[perceval]

about licences ...
JAA , FAA ...
Let's tell the truth a little .The theory exams are the big issue here .Some are more difficult to pass than others but the actual content is the same .period .On top of that , regardless where someone did his/her licence , six months later , so much is forgotten that it makes all those questions about the 'value' of the said licence irrelevant .
When it comes to the actual flying skills , I am afraid to say that so many factors come into play that the geographical location of your flying school or the complexity of the local bureaucracy is also ...irrelevant .Let see some of those factors : Money (What school you are able to afford .Sorry , I think an FAA licence from Flight safety is bound to be better than a JAA from a small airport in a european village with two aircrafts and an absent instructor ) , Quality of the individuals teaching you how to fly (that also doesn't know political borders) , quality of the aircrafts (see above) , Facilities surrounding your environment , dedication of the student (massive factor ...) ...
Then later will come into play your personnal flying experience .
the final result will be about the same .I believe that the boys flying , for example , a B-747 at Air France are as competent as those flying it for United , Malaysia , JAL , RAM...or whatever .
Guess what , they pass the same TR , fly to the same airports around the world ...do the same job .
I fly with guys from around the spectrum and , believe me their flying abilities are a highly personnal matter and not a question of what piece of paper or cardboard they have in their wallet .
Coming back to the original question , i think that pete needs encouragement from all of us and not sarcasm .
I can't really help you with job , but good luck with your search and enjoy asia if you get there .It's a great place .

[poorwanderingwun]

Nothing personal Peter...I wish you all the luck in the world...it's a tough road and we've all been there..and suffered accordingly...Unfortunately the fact that low time pilots need work does not make it a safe operation..A 250 or 500 hour pilot being employed throught the rigorous program of some majors via the 2nd officer route is an excellent way to go...the thought of a 2 crew op depending on just one experienced pilot is pretty frightening...Look back a few thousand hours from now and you'll know what I'm talking about...Best of luck for the future...keep posting...If I see some way to help I will :)

[Peter Nielsen]

Thank you for all the repliers

Some are better that others.

Another question: Will the fact that I went solo at the age of 15 - 14 years ago in a glider, and have been a glider ever since. In fact I have been flying for more years that most FO.

Another thing: I'm quite new here at Pprune and I can't understand why everybody is using AKAs and not their real names

PS

[perceval]

to answer partly your last request .Unfortunately people hardly look at the details of your CV in the fullest sense .Your glider experience ... will only come handy when you've broken the first barriers .Basically when you'll be in a cockpit with somebody checking you out .
though , in some cases it might help break the ice and get you further along the interview (maybe the chief pilot was a glider pilot himself or maybe he started flying young ...) .
Well , the only thing I may say is :patience and determination will eventually pay . If you love that flying business , you'll get there ....eventually .In the mean time, get yourself a job towing gliders or throwing skydivers out or instructing .Keep flying .Not only for your pleasure but also coz the people you send your CV to will want to see some current licence and recent flying experience .Again , best of luck .
PS:Your guess is as good as mine regarding the other subject .Maybe we all love a bit of acting (that's my real name despite appearances though , I guess i didn't need to bother with that one , in the first place :D

[Dani]

Using avaters, AKAs and phantasy names are sometimes very important, because the enemy is listening!
Listen to someone who learned this lessons the hard way: If you want to say something in an internet forum which is not meant for the whole world, say it anonymous or say nothing. :sad:

[Belowclouds]

Big Brother watches you everywhere, doesn't he, Dani? I've sent you all the information roqired. Check Your e-mail. Peter, we use nick's just for any case, and there are lot of cases in flying life. ProPiliot' life is not a pleasure, like flying glider, this is tough businees, and extremely serious one.

[Peter Nielsen]

what email. how would you know my email

[Dani]

Belowcloud ment me, not you Peter. Thanks, have it. Will send the fax! :ok:

[Edward555]

Peter Neilson...Congrats!!

I remember being in your shoes and it was a great time. From my experience it was a real bear trying to get that first job. You just have to keep your determination in check and keep trying. I did it by starting in another area of aviation first and this seems like a common theme. It is common for some to start in the office, or in maintenance, or on the docks pushing bags. Most everyone has to pay their dues. It helps if you start as a mechanic or have a degree you can use to get you in the office. In actuality I have seen these two qualifications with the best success. A mechanical background is invaluable, and a degree shows pedigree, intelligence, character and sticking power. ...Not necessary, but helps.

I would be surprised if anyone is hiring A320 FO's just out of flight school. I can see an ab initio scenario which will take ALOT of training and $$$, but who is going to do that unless you are being recruited by a major? Thier Ab initio's take years to train. Really, what insurance co. would insure a 250 hour pilot on a bus? I don't think this is real. But if it is....go for it!!!! You would be jumping light years!!

As for the license thing, I have to agree with perceval.

Regards and good luck.

ED