R44 emergency Torres Strait

[vetskone]

Word is there has been yet another "mayday" after power loss for an R44 operator in the Torres Strait. Required auto onto the water, restart(?) , hover to the beach above high water mark.
It makes 4 "events" in 2 years...2 engine power loss in the Strait, one hovering into wires while looking at crocodile, and one destroyed after rotor blade delamination in flight.
Can anyone confirm what actually happened on this last one?
Doesn't look good, for them or the industry.

[rotaryman]

You also forgot the R44 Blades destroyed when this pilot/operator landed into long grass and watched a large tree branch rise up and collect both Rotor Blades peeling open both of them! Umm what did he do? flew back to a certain Airport, phoned a mate, also fellow R44 owner and took his blades while awaited a new set from Robinson. Casa Never advised !!!!!!

Yea i know him very well....

[Arm out the window]

Not much you can do about the blade delamination, good job by the pilot there; what caused the previous power losses in the Strait? Obviously the wires thing is a straightforward stuff up, but what about the others?

[rotaryman]

There must be a ATSB report somewere? with regard to the Incidents and acidents that this Pilot/Operator has had.?

I know that only some of his exploits have been reported while others have been kept quiet.

[Stink Finger]

It's funny when this person gets up infront of 20 of his peers on the robi safety course and spins war stories about crashing a perfectly seviceable machine into a set of very visible power lines, and thinks those in the room respect him for his skills, "Hello D1ckhead".

[RDRickster]

Stink Finger, that's a little harsh. Nobody is perfect, and I think Tim does that to illustrate how easy it is to fall into bad habits... it can happen to ANYBODY.

[rotaryman]

RDrickster,,,

You obviously dont know him as well as StinkFinger and myself?

Seems if he lands in a national Park again with out a permit he will lose his Machine!! He's been warned...Fu@%ing :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:...
:D ;)

[imabell]

rdr, i don't think it was tim he was talking about.:(

[evod]

Back to the original question to which no one seems to have an answer, did a r44 have an engine failure or not? Do i go to the fiction or non fiction part of the bookshop?

:hmm:

[Ogsplash]

Geez, I know the guy some of these comments are being made about and I reckon they are pretty unfair. I've flown with this operator, as I have flown with many around Australia, and I reckon it's a pretty straight outfit.

Anyway, the pilot lost power on the engine and he got it back to shore - looks like a valve problem - anyway, where's the praise for the young pilot who did a good job in decision making and flying to get the machine to shore in one piece and stopped his pax from getting wet? Not too sure on the other power loss comment though.

As for the other incidents/accidents. Hitting wires? Hmmm...I've done that and so have a lot of helicopter pilots. We operate low level and it's always a hazard that we have to be aware of. No excuses, but we are human and we do make mistakes. This was reported to the appropriate authority. Blade delamination...nothing to do with the way the helicopter was being operated. This was reported. Stick into the blades...helo was shutdown and blade replacement done onsite and that was around ten years ago!

I can understand if the R44 operation is getting some B206 people a little jumpy because, as much as I hate to admit it, it is a good capable helicopter that is quite economical to run. Why else is it making inroads into ENG and Law Enforcement the way it is? Now, it takes a lot for me to admit that especially being a piston lover but hey, sometimes I have to admit that I can be wrong.

In my time in the Bureau, there were quite a few B206 engine problems that resulted in incidents and accidents that everyone seems to 'accept' those (and admittedly, the 'rate' is not high but the 'rate' is probably higher than the R44's - I can't back that up but just a gut feel).

I was also aware that some of the more reputable and larger operators weren't reporting all their incidents or even accidents so no-one is perfect.

It's kinda disappointing to see the fairly personal attacks without any reall facts to back them up.

[rotaryman]

Ogsplash,

I'm not knocking his piloting Skills! just his decision making Skills..?

I now him very well, Blades were not exchanged in the field as you state, The aircaft was flown back to mareeba! how much evidence would you like? ..he told me himself..oh and it was in 97 that makes it 7 years ago. The list doesnt include the R22 into the Daintree River,,

And National Parks have prosecuted him! thats a matter of Public record!
Once a Cowboy Always a Cowboy!

[Ogsplash]

Hey Rotaryman I checked with the operator and was assured that the blade change was done in the field and not at Mareeba as you state...the operator even provided the name of the engineer who did the job. And yes, it was 7 years ago. So I guess, there may have been a misunderstanding there somehow.

As far as National Parks go though...I reckon they need a kick in the pants for their tendency to lock up the parks so people can't enjoy them. There should be protocols that everyone can live with - protect the environment while enjoying it. I see plenty of 4-wheel tracks digging up the sand and land but no real pressure on them to stop. Why should helicopters that have a minimal impact on the environment be stopped? I reckon the Parks people should be taken to task on this but they seem to have become precious little sacred cows these days.

I'm interested in your comment about 'cowboys' though. I'd love to know the definition because pilots can make a bad decision now and then especially when the circumstances are right...does that make them cowboys? Certainly regularly exceeding limits, overflying hours and being a 'danger' to the passengers or public on the ground would, in my opinion, count as cowboy antics. Would be interested in your thoughts. None of the incidents you mention would, in isolation or taken as a collection over the years mentioned, be considered as a pattern of cowboy'ism in my mind.

I've known acknowledged good operators who suffer a series of incidents or the occassional accident despite their best efforts such as the 206 that crashed in the Straits a few years ago with two fatalities, or the 407 off Mackay with two more fatalities more recently. I wouldn't call any of these guys cowboys - would you?

Certainly the operators who overfly component hours and treat their helicopters like crap deserve the cowboy tag.

[RobboRider]

Ogsplash

I have to agree with your sentiments about

"As far as National Parks go though...I reckon they need a kick in the pants for their tendency to lock up the parks so people can't enjoy them. "

I have tried on a couple of occasions to get permission to land in national parks in the same areas being discussed here and have been knocked back, or given ambiguous answers that don't say "No" but that say "If you do we will chase after you and we have enough money and lawyers to crucify you even if you end up being right." Generally they just make it too difficult. But I guess "too difficult" is an amount that varies for different folks.

But I was free to drive there and trash the beach front for miles or dig my way through unmaintained roads and generally create long lasting havoc. Very frustrating I can tell you!

And our subject is not the only one who has run foul of the Nat. Park people here. A well known helo pilot here has a "record" because even though he had permission etc, on the day he had to take an alternative machine, (smaller, quieter, less deep skid imprints, same crew and passengers maybe BUT not the same machine as the permission was granted for. Sprung - now has a "record".
Another friend got an official warning cos he went into a national park when the park was "closed". He pointed out to the ranger that park was NOT closed - the roads were closed due to boggy conditions. The park was open and he had permission to be there. But they tried it on, anyway!

Rotaryman & Vetskone

I notice that what hasn't been said (and may have been missed by those not in the know) but these incidents have had a mix of different pilots NOT the same individual pilot each time. A couple with the pilot alluded to but the others with different pilots.
Sure he owns the company - but ....

The debate has gone from reasonable questions of an engine failure to a personalized attack.

Rotaryman

"doesnt include the R22 into the Daintree River"

It was the Normanby River if I recall. The Daintree was where the power line strike occurred.


Stink finger

As I recall the war story wasn't pitched as "how good am I" but as part of a scheduled lecture about the dangers of wirestrike and was one of two people who gave their experience of a wire strike.
Tim (do you mean ?Tim Tucker) did have a wire strike and told about it at the safety course. So I guess our subject is in good company.
So far I am not that good :-) thankfully.
Pretty reasonable on the part of the covenors to have someone who has actually "been there, done that."


Not wanting to sound defensive for someone else but the vitriol has obscured the detail a bit.

RR

[Heliport]

Shame this thread about an incident has been used (or abused) to launch a personal attack, right from the very first response. I guess competition must be intense in that part of Oz. :rolleyes:

People aren't stupid. When they see someone making repeated personal attacks, they read between the lines and wonder whether there's a grudge behind it.

Thanks to those of you who've added some balance.


Heliport

[rotaryman]

OGSPLASH,

Thanks for the response!
Hey Rotaryman I checked with the operator and was assured that the blade change was done in the field and not at Mareeba as you state...the operator even provided the name of the engineer who did the job. And yes, it was 7 years ago. So I guess, there may have been a misunderstanding there somehow.

Were you expecting him to come Clean with you? LMFAO Get Real Man! of course he's telling you that. I also know the Engineer, big Deal, After he had shut down the aircraft after landing in long grass and then watching the Tree Branch hit the blades etc etc, the Clients who were on board asked " quote, what are we going to do now? Pilot says umm well you can walk back to mareeba if you like, But i'm flying back!!! Pax then says! if its good enough for you to fly in thats good enough for me!!..needless to say Helicopter was flown back to mareeba and telephone calls made to exhange blades etc.

As for National Parks I agree with you! they should be open for all to enjoy, Its unfortunate that due to the type of behaviour from a minor few operators that its becomes more and more difficult when you say Oh Helicopter!! I to have come unglued with the BS you have to go through just to land in a park and i used to fly for national Parks..Jeeezz..

What i'm talking about here is that the Operator is a cowBoy! he has no respect for the Law and chooses to do what he likes when he likes! when he's prosecuted its everyones elses fault,,,He was known as a cowboy when he was in the game fishing industry and nothings changed since he got into the Aviation industy..

The name of his Company says it all...!!!!!

Yea Parks and a few local Communties are a little tired of a Certain low flying R44 Helicopter with some dude firing a rifle at anything that looks like moving!!!

ROBBORIDER.

G-Day your point is also taken and i do understand that it was a different pilot with regard to the recent engine failure and i stand corrected with regard to river name etc.,,BUT!

Are you serious! the operator of this business is a load mouth LOL jeeezz the last few times he's been to the Heli Expo he was threatened with been thrown out of his Hotel!! When turns up to your party! every one else leaves LOL:) He loves telling war stories and lives by the Motto of " Never Let the Truth Get in the way of a Good Story "

I'm sorry if you see it as a personal attack! But the sooner the Aviation Industry shuts down these CowBoys the better we all will be..

:ok:

[[email protected]]

Get off that fence Rotaryman and say what you really mean! Telling people how good he is at parties eh?....hmmmmm he's not an ex Harrier pilot is he???

[RobboRider]

RM G'day

Quote Rotary man

"Are you serious! the operator of this business is a load mouth LOL jeeezz the last few times he's been to the Heli Expo he was threatened with been thrown out of his Hotel!! When turns up to your party! every one else leaves LOL He loves telling war stories and lives by the Motto of " Never Let the Truth Get in the way of a Good Story "

I agree entirely, he is loud, he is raucous and he tells plenty of yarns and war stories where he is not slow at painting himself as larger than life. He'd agree with you on that!

But none of that's a crime. Jees...Steve Irwin has made a fortune of doing that. (well I don't know about being thrown out of a hotel ;)

Point of my posting was that things that were reasonable and sensible eg talks on wirestrike by a person whose had one and ownership of company whose pilots had some mechanical probs were being wordsmithed to make them sound like heinous crimes. If there's badness afoot it has to stand on its own not be embillished by twisting the scene around.


Low Flying and shooting from helicopters - well lots of people do that all the time with the CASA's blessing, if it was legit at the time - fine. If not - then I agree with you. But I can't comment cos I don't know. He does some contract work that involves shooting so you can hardly call him a cowboy if thats what the contract entailed.

Low Flying
And some of the communities around here are a bit funny when it comes to helicopters. Complain they don't want the noise then complain when they don't get it. I spent a number of years hearing about the complaints when we flew past in the B412 low but they were quick to sing our praises when we medivac'ed out someone who was sick. So I don't always put a lot of store in community complaints - cynical old bugger I know :sad:


Quote again

"The name of his Company says it all...!!!!!


Sorry I can't see through this one

The name is made up of the geographical location with the word "helicopters" appended. Nothing funny or cowboyish, unless there has been a name change lately?


As I said, I don't have an ax to grind, but i reckon its got to be kept pertinent to the topic.

cheers

RR

[rotaryman]

G-Day Crab..LMFAO

Nah not that i think of..:) :)

Some would say i am a man with a Grudge! I say no But i do Begrudge other Pilot/Operators that Fu%& it for everyone else,

Hey he's a nice guy, just ask him! he will tall ya..:cool:

[RobboRider]

What's LMFAO mean?:confused:

[rotaryman]

ROBBORIDER..

If there's badness afoot it has to stand on its own not be embillished by twisting the scene around.

Who's embelished the truth? or twisting anything ?

Low Flying and shooting from helicopters - well lots of people do that all the time with the CASA's blessing, if it was legit at the time - fine. If not - then I agree with you. But I can't comment cos I don't know. He does some contract work that involves shooting so you can hardly call him a cowboy if thats what the contract entailed.

If it was Legit why are parks so upset!...i'm talking about one of his many Heli-Fishing and Hunting trips..!!

You dont need to tell me about the industry here in Aust Robborider i been it a long time,,and i agree everyone gets pissed off with low flying Helicopters until they need one!

Once again i speak of unecasary low flying, Beet ups and Rich american clients shooting at anything that moves,while piloted by this individual.

Just watch the 60 minutes show and see how they portray him!!

Yes he's a ledgend in his own mind..

But i agree we have digressed! What was the Cause of the latest engine failure?

:ok:

LMFAO = Laughing My Fu$#ing Arse Off :E

[RobboRider]

RM

If it was Legit why are parks so upset!...i'm talking about one of his many Heli-Fishing and Hunting trips..!!


Fair comment then.

[David Earley]

I've been waiting for the operator concerned or someone first hand to provide an answer to the original question, and have felt increasingly uncomfortable with the direction this thread has taken.
I therefore asked for an answer from our staff in the area, and while it is still not first person, the following may serve to put this to rest;

"The aircraft FCH did put out a Mayday call not heard by Brisbane FS but relayed by a fixed wing in the area.

It appears that the engine dropped a valve losing engine power. The pilot did a good job put the aircraft down and not put the tailrotor in the water.
It has since been repaired and is presently underway to Cairns."

Can we all leave it at that?

DE

[Nigel Osborn]

A dropped valve in a helicopter engine is definitely not a good happening.
I remember years ago going to pick up a crew in the bush who had dropped a valve in a 47J and had great difficulty reaching the landing pad.
So well done.:ok:

[John Galt]

Isn't it just dandy the way people like `rotoryman' can slander someone with complete anonymity? A weak man indeed or is it the `tall poppy thing' ?

[Heliport]

Thanks David Earley for finding out what happened and answering the question.
Well done to the pilot. :ok:

John Galt
Well said. It's always a difficult to strike a balance between on the one hand avoiding 'censorship' and, on the other, preventing people from using the forum to vent their their spleen for reasons of their own. Thankfully, it's rarely a problem in this forum.

In this instance, rotaryman has gone so far over the top with his extreme repeated attacks, and has so clearly got an obsessive dislike of the man, that he's probably lost any credibility he might otherwise have had.

The original question has now been answered so I'm closing the thread. If anyone thinks it should be reopened, PM me and tell me why you think it should be.


Heliport