When push comes to shove (Jetstar)

[Wirraway]

Sat "Weekend Australian"

When push comes to shove
Cheap'n'cheerful never looked so cheap, writes Elizabeth Meryment, after being buffeted to get a seat flying with cut-price airline Jetstar
July 31, 2004

TO my mind, there is something peculiarly juvenile about the name Jetstar; it sounds like the sort of thing a plump teenager would have emblazoned on her size-too-small T-shirt, accompanied by a lurid image of a woman with a pneumatic figure. Yet this, it seems, is what Australian flying has come to.

Try booking a flight to nearly any leisure destination in Australia these days -- particularly those in Queensland -- and you'll find you won't be able to fly Qantas any more: if you can't get a seat aboard Virgin Blue, Jetstar it is.

Qantas established Jetstar this year in answer to competition from Richard Branson's Virgin Blue, which was throttling the opposition with its cheap'n'cheerful policy that drastically undercut Qantas's pricing regime. The result was that Qantas decided it could be even cheaper, if not quite so cheerful, via Jetstar.

So how does Jetstar vary from its opposition? Well, the first thing you notice is that the passenger lines at Jetstar's check-in gates are configured differently from those of the other airlines. No longer do you join one long queue and wait for the first available staff member to check you in.

With Jetstar, passengers on each flight line up in dedicated lines. So if you're flying from Sydney to Hamilton Island at 9am, everybody flying on that plane must join the same queue. That means 70 people can be in one queue, while next door a flight from Sydney to Avalon at 10am could have two people waiting.

And don't dare turn up late for the flight. The lines are closed precisely 30 minutes before the flight's scheduled departure time. There is no refund if you miss boarding and if you want to catch a later flight you must buy a new ticket. (A revenue-raising exercise, perchance? Oh no, just a measure to make planes leave on time.) Nor should you try to sneak on board more luggage than is your due. If you do, you'll be slugged mightily.

Check-on luggage must weigh no more than 20kg; for every kilogram over, you will be charged $5. So travelling with surfboards or prams is not recommended.

All that is not such a problem because one of the great travel annoyances has to be standing in line behind a family that is checking in 400 pieces of odd-shaped plastic-wrapped luggage that must be handled individually by the attendant.

But what really irritates me is Jetstar's "no seat allocation" policy. It's hard to see the purpose of this, as it can't possibly cost that much for an airline computer to randomly allocate seats to its passengers.

I recall that Virgin Blue started off with this policy but quickly dispensed with it, and indeed ended up introducing a business-class of sorts whereby passengers can pay an extra $30 per flight to secure a comfy seat in the front or exit row. On Jetstar, you'll have no such option. Jetstar has new "slim-line seats" (read: cramped legroom). One imagines Jetstar's unofficial mascot, the fabulous Magda Szubanski, would have trouble squeezing into these little seats that reduce legroom to a bare minimum. Worse, though, is that the no-seat allocation policy seems to encourage the worst in a lot of people.

Before the flight is called, passengers start lining up to make sure they can get on first to secure a good seat. This encourages a lot of pushing, shoving and general disregard for other passengers.

On one of the three Jetstar flights I've caught recently, I was infuriated to see passengers with almost violent looks on their faces (all of them young and mostly men) pushing others aside to get to the head of the line.

Those they pushed aside included women with small babies, pregnant women, elderly folk and even one woman with cerebral palsy. No kidding. The Jetstar staff didn't seem to find this a problem and helped nobody on board.

On another flight I took, however, priority boarding was given to those who needed it; the elderly, families with small children and pregnant women were invited to board first, thus earning the hisses and poisoned glares of those who had arrived at the airport early to secure front-row seats.

That's another thing about Jetstar. The first 50 passengers to arrive are permiited to board first, so if you're an habitual latecomer like me, you'll always end up with the seat by the toilet (if you make the flight at all).

Of course on Jetstar there is no such thing as a free meal. But don't fear. If you're hungry or thirsty there are repeated opportunities to buy, buy, buy yourself silly.

Prices are fair. Basic filter coffee and tea are $2.50 a cup, soft drinks $3, a Greek salad $5.50, a Turkish sandwich with ham and cheese $6, a vegetarian wrap with sundried tomato dressing $5.50, Pringles $3, beer $5, spirits $6 and so on. And if you're really intent on tossing your money to the wind, you can buy a Jetstar teddy bear for$14.

The Jetstar staff, I have to say, seem universally cheery, at least cheerier than the Qantas staff I've encountered lately.

And all three flights I caught did leave and land on time, which makes a refreshing change. The flights can be cheap if you get them on special, too.

As a random exercise, I checked one-way prices from Brisbane to Cairns and found I could get them for $69 with a week's notice, which is a bargain.

Similar prices could be found for Sydney to Hobart flights. (Comparable flights on Qantas cost more than $200.)

But on Jetstar you won't clock up any frequent flyer points, which is a downer for people who fly more than once or twice a year. And saving money is a priority for most of us, so it's a fair bet we will all end up on Jetstar at some point. But don't expect a luxury trip. I'll be choosing Virgin Blue. At least I won't be pushed aside in the rush to take my seat.

Checklist

Jetstar flies to Sydney and Newcastle, Melbourne (Avalon), Hobart, Launceston, Brisbane, the Gold and Sunshine coasts, Rockhampton, Mackay, Hamilton Island, Proserpine and Cairns. Flights start from $39. More: 131 538; www.jetstar.com.au.

===========================================

[TIMMEEEE]

I see that Elizabeth Meryment didnt get the obligatory freebies that VB seems to provide journo's doing stories/reports.

This sounds like the opposite of "cash for comments" so to speak.

People want cheap(er) fares dont they?
You get what you pay for.
What do they expect!!!

[sinala1]

This sounds like the opposite of "cash for comments" so to speak.

Timeee thats a pretty big call to make... Agreed that this journalism is not nearly as impartial as it could (should) be, but its not fair of you to set out on a VB bashing exercise because of it.....

The most correct statement you made is

You get what you pay for.

and I agree 100% with you on that

[Desert Dingo]

Maybe so if you're an habitual latecomer like me, you'll always end up with the seat by the toilet (if you make the flight at all).
explains why she seems so p!!ssed off.
No way it could be her own fault. :E

[Zed]

And she got payed for this drivel.

Seems to me she is the type of person Jet* are educating very quickly.

1/ Be on time.

2/ No special treatment

3/ No Free Feeds (If you could ever call QFs boxes a feed).

4/ Get on.

5/ Sit down.

6/ And Shut up.

For this you will get from A to B on time and at a bus fare price. Plus you will be in the the hands of some the nicest and compendant FA's in the business.

[On The Horizon]

I have taken two Jetstar flights in the last month unlike the writer of this article, I turned up a reasonable amount of time before the flight to check in. I had sequence numbers varying from 7 to 40, preference was given to elderley, familys wilth young children, etc. I have no problem with this as I turned up on time, there were still a stack of seats to choose from when I boarded the plane.


Nor did I see any hisses and poisoned glares from people that may have checked in before the passengers given priority.


Its passengers like the writer of this article that hold up other airlines flights at the expense of the 99.9% of people who bothered to read their ticket and turn up on time. What a self centred B*$&%.

The media in general seem to be singling out Jetstar for their 30min checkin deadline. In the interest of balancing up the one sided dribble :yuk: that gets published, all of which could be better written by an illiterate two year old. Those journos that get their facts from this very website here you are, quoted from Virgin blue terms and conditions.

4. Guests must check in to board the flight at the Carrier's check-in facility serving the place of departure: for International Travel (including domestic legs of an international flight) at least 90 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time; and for Domestic Travel at least 30 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time. The fare paid may be forfeited and the Carrier may cancel or re-allocate the Booking if a Guest fails to check in by the time specified.

Cheers
:ok:

[Buster Hyman]

All I've learned from this article is that people like her were pampered by the old duopoly. What she wants is VB & J* prices, with AN & TN service, facilities, etc, etc, etc...

Welcome to the NWO Elizabeth! :rolleyes: Oh, and if your "example" of the "customers" suprises you, why not write an article about the life of a check-in clerk for ANY airline!:mad:

[2daddies]

It really is your typical media rubbish.

Essentially what Elizabeth is saying is that she got a ridiculously cheap airfare between A and B, enjoyed the service and left A and got to B on or ahead of time.

Her only real whinges concern things that we as airline employees have no control over, i.e - what passengers say/do, or how they behave.

Journalists really need to be regarded with the same contempt that they reserve for us. It would seem they deserve it.
:suspect:

[Agent Mulder]

Well,

Being a diligent Qantas Employee, Mulder decided to search for the answers this weekend and flew to a destination with Virgin and came back with Jetstar on a brand new A320. Full fare with Bride in tow. $800 return.

Verdict.

Virgin has got it hands down on Jetstar!

Allocated seating, Friendlier Cabin Crew who knew the job etc. etc.

If this is what the Australian Public wants then good luck. In future I will fly business class to the nearest Capital City and hire a car. Hail to the Bus driver, bus driver, bus driver. Pay Peanuts!!!!

[nasa]

As much as I hate to do it, I must agree with Elizabeth to some degree. I'm not impressed by Deathstar and the service I received, and She Who Must Be Obeyed flew Maroochydore to Sydney, nope sorry, didn't quite make Sydney, got dumped at Willy, and returned Sydney Maroochydore on Mother Teresa Airlines ;) and the difference was chalk and cheese. MTA were streets ahead in her opinion, and I know her opinion is correct because she told me so.

Deathstar's check in systems sucks and is old world methods. No one does it like that anymore, but they should start to learn soon.

I've said it before and I'll continue to believe it until proven incorrect. Deathstar is just a baby flying white rat, same attitude, same indifference to the customer. Yes you get what you pay for, but I'm not sure I paid for ignorance. The FAs may be competent, however, the impression given to me was that they really didn't want to be there.

I'm not sure I feel comfortable with some of the antics the MTA FAs get up to, but being a little oder than some, I remember TAA, Compass (Mark I & II), Ansett and the service (read attitude of the FAs) and long for those days. Whether you're paying peanuts or diamonds, at the end of the day, it doesn't cost one red cent more to welcome the paying customer to your place of employment, after all, if they don't come back, you don't have a place of employment.

JMOFWIW

[pug munter]

As most here have said, the journalism doesn't really reek of professionalism but more importantly who has the better strategy and will generate enough positive cashflow to survive? True low cost operators focus on costs (Ryan air etc) and survive.

Jet*'s lean and mean true low cost model versus Virgin's hybrid low cost model?

Today's financial results for Virgin and the subsequent mark down of its shares indicate what the professional investors think. What was Virgin floated at?

(I have flown both airlines, checked in early at Jet*and didn't have any problems. Virgin may have the blondes etc but aren't we out of the seventies now?)


From ABC's website on 4 August: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200408/s1168967.htm

The airlines steered the Australian share market lower today as oil prices soared and Virgin Blue posted lower earnings.

The All Ordinaries closed nine points lower at 3,555.

Virgin Blue's shares plummeted to an all-time low after its earnings fell 22 per cent in the first four months of the year.

It blamed competition from Jetstar and a flood of new planes on key routes.

Virgin Blue's shares closed down more than 14 per cent at $1.75.

Patrick Corporation, which owns 45 per cent of Virgin, has also felt the effects. Its shares fell 6.5 per cent to $5.17.

[ditzyboy]

Having performed our boarding ritual numerous times I would just like to say the it ALWAYS goes well with the exception of FAMILIES. If there is more than 8-10 families the :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: REALLY hits the fan.

Unlike the author of the article I have found that it is mothers (WOMEN) who posess these "hisses and poisoned glares". Call me a masongenist but whenever you get more than a couple of families these woman get very pushy. Even say a lady with a baby. She will ALWAYS put the baby in a seat (as close to the front as we let her) and deny a pax who checked in before her (quite often these familes check in last!) the choice. And you explain it is a full flight and it isn't possible for her to have the extra seat for free. And they yell at you...

These women yell and scream when we say they must sit behind row 4. (As we do with all pre-board except Chairman's Lounge) They just don't understand that the 115 people who checked in before them may like a pick of the good seats. Seating for people with infants was always rows 6-10 in the QFLink days and no one ever complained about it as they were told to sit there. The power of perception (or ignorance?)...

I have found the boarding process is 100% pleasant when there is few families. These women can really turn it in to a :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: fight. I have observed fights and yelling matches between families and had people scream abuse in my face. But only when (by more than coincidence!) there is families (read mothers) involved.

I don't know what it is but I have to say I have seen some really selfish and arrogant behaviour, 90% of it from these mothers. Is there some gene/hormone that only mothers posess that turn them into these monsters?

[Pinky the pilot]

I suppose that one would have to use a bit of lateral thinking to relate the following to the thread but.......
I saw this notice hanging on a wall of an electronics shop in Darwin in 1989;
"Quality is like buying oats. If you want clean ,fresh oats you must pay a fair price. However, If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper."
Just my thought.:(

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Binoculars]

It seems to me that despite approaching the argument from differing viewpoints everyone is actually in heated agreement.

1. You get what you pay for.
2. Some people expect more than they pay for.
3. The journalist sounds like she is from (2) and is a right tosser.
4. If you don't like the tradeoffs, feel free to use the opposition.

Where's the problem? Me, I'm happy to arrive at the airport a bit earlier, wait for the queue to finish fighting and take the last seat, wherever it is, if it means paying half the price. Who gives a stuff for a 90 minute flight? Agent Mulder is free to use business class if he wants. Isn't that what competition is about?

As Buster says, welcome to the NWO.


:rolleyes:

[pug munter]

Hey Ditzyboy!

Must be even better when there's no passengers at all! With your attitude you might find the people who pay your salary choosing the other airline.

Sounds like a p*ss poor attitude from someone who chooses to be in the front line with the customers. "You" are the face of your employer and it doesn't sound like you present a pleasant one.

However, I do agree that some pax can be nightmares but that's life nowadays. Flying for the masses not only brings contact with the masses but also jobs. The "good old days" certainly have gone.

If you don't like it, move on to another service industry. I am sure there are plenty of aspiring FAs queuing for your job.

Cheers

Pug

ps the spelling you might be looking for is misogynist and since you ask, I'll also call you one too!

[ditzyboy]

Pug -
If you'd care to review my previous posts about Jetstar you would see that I am indeed enjoying it. I think many of us were pleasantly surprised at the amount of positives regarding the cabin crew role in the new operation.

I would challenge anyone who knew me to find a time when I am not pleasant to my customers (to whom I owe my job!). Where in my post do I give the impression I am not pleasant to these people? You yourself admit some pax can be trying. Customers in EVERY industry are trying - it's human nature.

I am the last person you need to remind about being thankful to have *any* job in this industry. So I don't know where you get off saying what you said. I was merely comparing my own experiences to that of the writer's. I made true observations of other people's actions and never once said that I show any sort of attitude to these people. Explain to me where I indicated that I show attitude. I just pointed out the behaviour's I have witnessed in others. Behaviour you even agreed occurs.

You looked far too deeply into my post and found something that wasn't even there, my friend. Before attacking people so viciously on a personal level - get your facts straight, please.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Uh-oh...it's trolley bags at 10 paces.

Watch out pug. Ditz has a mean backhand.

[jedda]

Ditzyboy,
What ever happened to R.M.Ansett's adage;"Look after mothers and children first.Other people will see this and send their families to fly with you!"Worked for us,but we had Class.
and don't say An. went bust,we all know that Abels caused that.Get the right attitude Ditzyboy,and stop giving cabin crew a bad image.

[sinala1]

Worked for us, but we had class

Completely unnecessary! No need to be so bitchy... AN is a sad loss to this country, but no need to be like that about it!

Get the right attitude Ditzyboy,and stop giving cabin crew a bad image.

If you read what he is saying, you will see that he has a great attitude towards the people who are actually providing our jobs for us in the first place... what he is saying though is that some of those people are the ones who need to re-adjust the way they treat their fellow human beings! As far as Cabin Crew image goes, they are seen as being a lot friendlier these days and not nearly as snobby as some have been in the past! And personally, I dont confuse snobbiness with class.... (and I would just like to clarify that I dont mean all cabin crew from the past, but some are clearly above the rest of us in their own minds)

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

I heard the mullet and flanno was back in for spring 2004. I thought this was classy.

DM

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Sinala,

I do not believe Jedda was being nasty or bitchy. Ansett - the GOOD old Ansett pre-Abeles - set a world standard for inflight and ON GROUND passenger service that was mimicked and copied by other airlines. Singapore Airlines for example based their inflight service on Reginald Ansett's ideals.

Qantas has NEVER been "up there" in the books regarding customer service - Australian Airlines was not a lot better (TAA came close to Ansett). I imagine perhaps JetFart uses QN training, which is not necessarily a good thing.

Take this from someone at the pointy end of the tubes you fly in - you guys need MAJOR improvement! DJ is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of ALL current Australian airlines in terms of service, friendliness, and courteous staff.

Old time AN hosties were NOT bitchy - some were aloof. They were because they WERE the best - RM would have it no other way! Why hire second rate employees that deal DIRECTLY with, and project the image of the airline to the customers????

AN "Old Boilers" had, and most still do, have CLASS that most current FA's could only dream about. I have yet to witness a single JetFart FA (not talking Hairy Legged) worth a second look - they show no head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor.

It is a sad turn when airlines have to trun to T shirts on employees to cut their image in half.... I can just see the authority of a T shirt clad FA during a ditching, when they blend in with the rest of the thong wearing screaming crescendo trying to exit.

[pug munter]

Ditz

I have agreed, up to now, with your erudite posts as they have added a balanced viewpoint from the workers' side of the game.

I felt your post, pre-edit of the gratuitous comment about a certain type of frustration, was over the top and felt it appropriate to make my views felt.

I don't think my reply was overly personal as it just addressed your comments.

I am sorry if you now feel aggrieved but hey, you made the comments about female pax with kids. in a less than pleasant manner - I am sure it is a bitch when they behave that way but that is part of the job and its admirable if you can grit your teeth and pass the peanuts (on jet*?).

Cheers

Pug

[Sky_hi!]

RTA,

I really don't think JetSTAR pax are going to be worrying about:

".... head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor."

These are people that would normally catch the bus, if flights weren't so cheap now days. They would rather have someone they can relate to, NOT a GLAMOUR FA.

As for the 'T-shirts', remember this is a BUDGET airline.

Welcome to the 21ST century.

[NAMPS]

Pug

I think that ditzyboy was just making a few observations from his experience.

There is nothing in the post that can be inferred about how he handles them.

I have clients who, in any other circumstance, I wouldn't give the time of day, however that does not mean that I provide any less a professional service to those clients than I do to those I enjoy working with.

[sinala1]

DJ is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of ALL current Australian airlines in terms of service, friendliness, and courteous staff

Yes I agree with you - I am one of those ones who provides that service to the DJ guests! Have been with them for almost 3 years and have numerous compliments from Guests, Cabin Crew Management, and Crew Members on my crews all verifying that exact fact :ok:

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Shy Hi,

Yep, JetFart is a Budget Airline, and it shows GLARINGLY. Funnily enough, Virgin Blue is ALSO a budget airline (J* set up to compete against them), and they don't feel the need to resort to T-Shirts...

DJ's uniform is casual enough, but darned enticing, especially with the VERY attractive hosties they usually employ (chauvinist male coming out in me) :ok:

Might be the 21st century, but is there a need to drop time honoured professionalism in regards to professional attire?

As I mentioned, in the case of a ditching, or crash, where is the "authority figure" that is so obvious with a properly uniformed FA? In times of old, FA's would don their uniform hats, which was like a beacon "Follow me". What now with J*? At least the DJ uniform is a UNIFORM, and does stand out from the passenger attire.

As a Pointy Ender, I must mention that I would much rather wear the uniform of old - jacket with stripes, shirt with eppaulettes, tie, and polished shoes, with a peaked cap.... It's NOT a snobby thing, it's a sign of authority. After paying half a life's wages in training to get where you dreamt to be, you deserve to say "Yeah, I'm an airline captain. I made it. I'm not some glorified bus driver".

Anyway, enough ramble. Call me old fashioned (for a 31 year old!)...

[sinala1]

As a Pointy Ender, I must mention that I would much rather wear the uniform of old - jacket with stripes, shirt with eppaulettes, tie, and polished shoes, with a peaked cap.... It's NOT a snobby thing, it's a sign of authority

Agreed! I too wish we got to wear a jacket and tie in the cabin - I have to say that I think the QF Black suit is very nice, very professional!

especially with the VERY attractive hosties they usually employ
Sorry to say tho, I am not a member of that group of "very attractive hosties" you speak of - I am a guy! :cool:

As I mentioned, in the case of a ditching, or crash, where is the "authority figure" that is so obvious with a properly uniformed FA?
Agreed again that uniform can/will often be the "authority figure" that you speak of, but authority is also about the way a person exerts themself. I feel pretty confident that even if I was naked I could evacuate the cabin with a similar (if not exact same) level of efficiency as I would in full uniform (and no thats not taking into account pax running and screaming and pointing and laughing at me!!! :E ) I am fairly sure that my commands and assertiveness would be just as audible and obeyed if I was wearing a black tshirt and pants, and the pax had seen me wearing that all flight, and had interacted with me already in an FA role - I personally think that they would identify me and my crew as being authority figures. All that said though, I am not denying the positive effects of an immediately identifiable uniform - just look at firemen/police officers for example - everyone recognises them, and sees them as figures of safety/authority.

[ditzyboy]

Pug -
and pass the peanuts (on jet*?) "Sure, $2 please." ;)

I dunno what all this fuss about T-Shirts is for.... I cannot believe we used to serve 117 pax a hot dinner (with a choice), bar service and hot drinks on 40 minute flights wearing shirts, vests and jackets for takeoff and landing. Crazy! These T-shirts are so much more comfortable than any other of the four uniforms I have worn and SO MUCH MORE PRACTICAL too! Pax tell us we look much more comfortable and that the uniform is both simple AND smart. (The jackets are simply vile though, IMHO!)

I am all for being glamorous. Let me tell you it was very hard to feel glamourous in TSV wearing the latest QF uniform with sweat soaking your uniform down both sides! It looked hideous and made it much hard to feel glamourous and project that "WOW factor", some are so hard about...


RTA -
At least the DJ uniform is a UNIFORM, and does stand out from the passenger attire.

What utter garbage. I like DJs uniform. But to say it stands out from male pax wearing tan pants and a white shirt is simply ludicris! How many pax do you see wearing dayglo ORANGE? None - not even our pax have dress sense that tragic! How is JQs uniform not a uniform, as you say? Every staff member wears a piece from the collection allocated to us... Is that not a uniform?

I totally agree with Sinala. Pax know who the crew is because we deal with them as part of the pax-crew 'relationship' from the moment we greet them in the lounge. I have not yet had a problem with communicating with pax due to the style of my shirt or the orange lapels that temporarily blind some of them!

The whole idea of the more casual uniform (as pioneered by DJ!) is so that pax are not uncomortable in approaching us and to make the atmosphere more relaxed. Mission accomplished. As far as I am concerned.

chauvinist male coming out in me Thanks. We were wondering
:hmm: We have some hotties too. And they happen to be the ones without facial hair! ;)

All you people with these complexes about the industry having to be glamorous are really funny. Being glamorous starts with YOU. Those of you that think a uniform, pay packet or the average fare a pax pays make you glamorours are deluded.

Jedda -
Jetstar is every bit as much an airline as AN was. *yawn* And I am very happy with the way I project myself to pax. If you ever saw for yourself I think you would agree. But thanks heaps for your constructive comments.

[MoFo]

Ditzy.
I loved your post as I have seen it all exactly as you stated.

Its those same scrags who drive into your car in the supermarket car park in their 4 wheel drive, talk loudly to a 3 yearold explaining everything in multi syllable words the kid has no idea about and giving it too many choices.

The trouble is in their world the kid is God. Life only exists to serve their Golden Child. Sad.

[Sky_hi!]

I feel pretty confident that even if I was naked I could evacuate the cabin with a similar (if not exact same) level of efficiency as I would in full uniform

LOL .... have the funniest picture in my head now Sinala1! hee hee hee

Well I guess when it comes down to it, no matter what you are wearing black t-shirt, collared white shirt or..... in Sinala1's case birthday suit it doesn't matter. If you can provide the best customer service and exceed all pax expectations with a bright friendly smile to boot, it doesn't matter what uniform you are wearing.

:}

[sinala1]

Sky_hi I agree re the funny picture in your head, although I think its a case of laughing at me not with me! I know I sure as hell am laughing at myself :ok: :ok: :E :E

[jedda]

I think we are all forgetting that,according to C.A.A.,the only reason to have cabin crew is to evacuate the cabin in case of an emergency.
How individuals conduct themselves in the rest of their jobs reflects the training they have had.I have been a pax with both Jet * and Virgin.All crew were great.No complaints.Virgin did impress with their pre take off briefing.
Down to Earth and Wings Away are having a combined lunch on 17 August.If any cabin crew are in town ,join us and compare notes.I can guarantee we have similar tales;most pax are good;it's the occasional b**** whoruins your day.
Keep safe.
P.S. Wings Away & D.T.E. are T.A.A. & Ansett for the young at heart.

[Watchdog]

R.T.A,

Old time AN hosties were NOT bitchy - some were aloof. They were because they WERE the best - RM would have it no other way!
Why hire second rate employees that deal
Actually I'd go as far as to say Jet* have near 50% former AN F/A's employed as Cabin Managers - so you'd be contradicting yourself.
AN "Old Boilers" had, and most still do, have CLASS that most current FA's could only dream about. I have yet to witness a single JetFart FA (not talking Hairy Legged) worth a second look - they show no head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor.
Well lets hope they are employed for things other than looking glamourous - eg. friendliness, education and perhaps an ability to deal with in-flight emergencies.
I could probably assume you'd be still unemployed... As a Pointy Ender ...if it came to your looks and not your qualifications.
And I can assure you, there are some good sorts working there too, so your observations are obviously flawed.

[Romeo Tango Alpha]

Watchdog,

I think you missed the gist of what I was saying....

I am NOT referring to ANY FA's from withing the last 20 years! As I said, OLD TIME AN FA's. You know, early 80's, even back to the 70's. A LOT changed mid-1980's.

I was also NOT referring to J* FA's in todays environment in regards to your retort to my mention about RM Ansett employing only the best - He employed the CREAM of the crop, and they projected the image for him. I was NOT saying that J* or TAA, or AN, or EW or whoeeverweren't the best selected, I am merely pointing out Reg's rationale / attitiude to employment of FA's.

As to your second retort, most assuredly they DID! Never met an even remotely incompetent one yet. They wouldn't last if they were incompetent.

As to your last remark, I am confused a bit there, as you COMPLETELY took out of context what I wrote.

I know it is VERY hard to adequately convey emotion / meaning etc to written words, and a LOT of what we write get's taken out of context and desired meaning.

There is NO malice involved with anything I have written, just observations over MANY years (including being an Airline brat pre-employment - TAA)

I have to admit DitzyBoy's original comments did inspire the "WTF is this hairy legger on about?" For offering opinions, I apologise.

[Sunfish]

Possums, I think that Qantas has a real problem on its hands. Its called cannibalism.

Qantas cannot pitch Jetstar at VB because if it did, it risks cannibalising its own Qantas dometic operation. Thats why Qantas made JetStar a really "budget" airline with no seat allocations and all the other prickly bits.

My guess is that there are also those withing Qantas who are sh1t scared that Jetstar is the future, and who would like to see it fail.

VB has far better service then Jetstar and they actually make flying seem like fun, even for old roues like me. I like their "blue room" thing as well, sitting and watching home theatre movies is more fun then reading every business magazine on the rack and crappy TV.

[Weapons_Hot]

RTA

You want to wear a cap, in the 21st Century??
I have been trying for the last 33 years (not just 31 years of age) NOT to wear such a ridiculous thing, although wearing Her Majesty's uniform with a crown on each epaulette, a rather smart "Sam Browne" on which hung a Sword, ceremonial, did make up for that minor inconvenience.

If you don't hold, or have never held, the Queen's Commission, forget the cap crap.

[Watchdog]

RTA
thanks for your explanations. I re-read your posts, and still get the impression that you are saying the quality of a FA is based on their looks/poise etc & uniform. Your posts portray you as sexist & a male chauvanist. Sure, things have changed over the last thirty years - we don't wear flares anymore either.

I agree the VB uniform looks good, the QF best and JQ poorest. Intimates the amount of $$ spent producing it i'd imagine.
With regards authority (emergency) - the VB white shirt/brown trousers/skirt would actually be less recognisible than the QF or even the JQ black/orange. (I wore white/brown on the tarmac recently - several people thought I was a VB pilot). In any case, in a smoke filled cabin, someone screaming "COME THIS WAY...GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT !! " through a loud hailer is going to command plenty of authority irrespective of their style of attire.