Helicopter down in Brisbane - incl ATSB Report

[wishtobflying]

Just heard on the radio something about a helicopter going down at the helipad on the Brisbane River. Anyone got any details yet?

We heard lots of fire trucks going past on the way down to the river then heard it on the radio but no other news yet. :(

[Dynamic Component]

My sources in Brisbane tell me that it might be a 109?
Hope everybody is OK
:8

[wishtobflying]

Good news - pilot & passenger walked away with very minor injuries.

Brisbane Helicopters Agusta 109, helicopter upside down in the water. I'm going to go down in a few minutes and see if I can get a picture to post.

Above was from local TV news room.

[evod]

just saw news on 10. Looks like a 109 in the drink. According to 10 the pilots were slightly injured with one suffering head injuries. Hopefully both are ok:uhoh:

Should hemets be compulsory in all ops?.........makes you think

[jinglejim]

It was Barry Sheene's old 109, both occupants dragged from the brissy river minor injuries
Heard they come into contact with the handrails of the pontoon which caused dynamic rollover. *(eye witness)

[wishtobflying]

I went down to the river and got some pictures (below) and spoke to the Channel 7 crew that was on the scene first.

Guys in the helicopter (two) seemed to be okay, one had some superficial head cuts and the other some cuts on his hand but otherwise looked okay. I didn't see them there personally but saw some camera footage that showed the guys getting treated and they looked pretty much okay, just a bit waterlogged.

Speculation at the moment is that he came in too fast, possibly caught something, tail rotor dug in (you can see some damage to the surface of the helipad itself), spun around and flipped over. Channel 7 crew was across the river at Southbank filming something and heard the helicopter coming in, switched off their camera to wait until the noise finished, had their backs to the helipad when they heard a bang and they turned around to see the helicopter on its back already. So the speculation that it happened "on takeoff" doesn't sound right.

Apparently some blade parts were found across the river at Southbank, fortunate really that nobody on the riverwalk was injured. Lots of fuel in the water, very heavy smell in the air.

A big thank you to Graeme at Blue Tongue for hosting pics:

http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/ag1.jpg

Blade parts pulled out of the water and put on the walkway - note brown mark on the helipad where something (tail rotor?) dug in:
http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/ag2.jpg

The walkway is holding up the front of the helicopter - lucky the handrail didn't go further into the cockpit area.
http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/ag3.jpg

[Nigel Osborn]

Wonder if the pilot caused that brown mark on the helipad!!!:ok:

Looks a tricky job to repair.

:(

[SASless]

Glad everyone is okay...but can you imagine the telephone call to the Boss Fellah? I hope I never have to make or receive one of them!

Since everyone is okay....is a caption contest in order here?:confused:

[wishtobflying]

Apparently the word at this stage is that the "Boss Fellah" was the pilot at the time!

Channel 9 is reportingA police spokesman said the helicopter was attempting to take off about 8.45am (AEST) from the Queen Street Wharf helipad in the Brisbane CBD when it hit a wall and crashed into the river. ... which is unlikely, as the only thing in front of the helipad is a freeway that's about 10m high and about 40m from the river's edge. If the helicopter had hit that it wouldn't have ended with minor injuries I don't think, and wouldn't have made it back to the edge of the pontoon.

[Dynamic Component]

I've been told that the tr might have cought the railing when he turned around to depart.

Is the helipad certified for aircraft with wheels?Does it have a weight limit.:}

Good to hear that everyone is OK:8

From what I read here the "boss fella" was not the pilot?http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10289871%255E952,00.html

[wishtobflying]

Fair enough - looks like a more complete story from the Courier Mail. I was going from what the people at the scene said, which was a few hours after it happened.

[Dynamic Component]

wishtobflying,

So has it been confirmed that the pilot was not the "boss fella"?
Just curious-cos if it was he's having a real BAD day:mad:

[M100]

Helicopters Brisbane?

Aren't they the same operator who had the "finger trouble" with the MD600N last year?
Very expensive year!
Very lucky to have escaped serious injury looking at the photos.
:{

[blindfreddie]

I believe that it is the same operator and the 600N
is still not flying. A bloke will have to walk ( or swim ) shortly.

[belly tank]

Photo of the recovery.....

Mr Selfish...the 600 that got a bit hot was that the one belonging to a certain stock broker down sydney way?

http://members.iinet.net.au/~pwoods/images/vhzzn.JPG

[belly tank]

just saw the late news 1200pm......

a long story on the event. news reports stated that the pontoon may not have been suitable for the weight of the acft.

looking at the shots it looked like a hole in the pontoon, possibly from the right landing gear. they believe a dynamic rollover occured from the right gear being stuck in the platform. which makes sense.

they have as a result closed the helipad....damn shame.

showed pics of the pilot..who was clearly distressed and told the camera man to give it a break. as you would

channel 10 news really beat it up tonight saying "a helicopter span wildly out of control nearly missing nearby motorist's"

they certainly know how to exaggerate..

anyway enought babbling...im heading for another nightcap!!!

[John Abersynth]

I understand, that CASA may have been in receipt of documentation regarding the weight restrictions of this pontoon, and possibly failed to circulate this information to relevant operators. Instead chasing little personal agendas. What are you doing CASA ???????

[sprocket]

belly tank: Re your pic, I never new Agusta made a 601 model.

[helmet fire]

What are you saying John A? That CASA were responsible for sending out the weight limit for each helicopter pad used? And/Or that pavement concession numbers for wheeled helicopters are the responsibility of CASA?

And are you saying that they were purposely not passing on information due to personal bias?

Gee, I really hope you are wrong.

[M100]

John Abersynth

The Brisbane River Helipad (YBVH) is not a free-for-all public use facility. As with any landing area the pilot/operator needs the owner's permission for access.
The Qld Premier's Department allow helicopters to use the YBVH if they have shown that they have appropriate insurance cover and have signed the "Conditions of Use Contract" which clearly stipulate that the max. weight is 2000kgs. This I am told is a bouyancy issue not a structural integrity one.
This pilot either chose to ignore the conditions of use or did not have permission to use the helipad.
CASA do not approve HLSs - they only publish an advisory circular CAAP 92 which places the responsibility of safe operation clearly with the pilot in command where it should be.
Pre 1989 - if I remember after much time and effort from the Helicopter Association the antiquated AGA-7 legislation was abolished - a very positive step forward for the industry as that outdated set of rules severly restricted helicopter operations -especially charter.
Unfortunately I can see the YBVH going the same way after this accident - a real shame after over 20 years of safe operation.

[John Abersynth]

Has anyone heard of Duty of Care?

[Ascend Charlie]

Yes, I have heard of duty of care.

But I don't think it applies to a case like this, where the operator has laid down specific limits, and only allows landings that are permitted under those requirements. They are not subsequently liable if some wombat goes outside those limits either through ignorance or by choice.

If it did apply, then somebody who has built a trolley for their R22 would have to make it big enough for a Mil-26 in case it decided to land there.

Similarly Parramatta Road doesn't have to allow for jumbos to land on it, or for coal trains to rumble through Broadway.

[helmet fire]

Duty of Care? um,...., oh yes, rings a bell. Think I have heard of it.
And the relevance to your comments above is........................???

[beantoo]

The builder of the R22 trolly does not have to make it large enough for a mil26 but if he is to allow the public to use his trolly he has the responsibility to let those people know of it's limits and to be sure that they know the limits.

[belly tank]

Mr S, M100

Unfortunately it only takes one mishap and facilitys like these soon go due to political or public pressure as well as insurance and liability issues.

im afraid in this country of ANTI EVERYTHING once gone it wont be back. i agree if the operator of the pontoon has specified a weight limit and this helo was over the limit knowingly his insurance company wont be too happy,

or if unknowingly he should have asked for permission and requested the procedures and restrictions it may have in place ie: weight limit!!

lawyers can now argue against this pad being closed down, but you all know who the winners are out of that!

A shame i agree...

[wishtobflying]

Final ATSB report out:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2004/AAIR/aair200402820.aspx

I started looking for the original thread about this, but with the search function not working for older threads I realised this could take quite some time - if moderators have a better way of searching perhaps they could link the two but for now ...

[wishtobflying]

Aw crap. :ugh: :O

Mods, feel free to merge threads while I take myself out the back and slap myself with a wet towel.

[wishtobflying]

Final ATSB report out:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2004/AAIR/aair200402820.aspx

After removing foot from mouth ... :O

[Creaser]

Was a new helipad built elsewhere to replace this one?


Creaser

[Texdoc]

Nope and that is unlikely unless it is an operator that intends to do it. I think the Qld Gov don't want to go near it again after what happened and the fall out :*

[wishtobflying]

So ... operators in Brisbane, if the Client requested to be picked up at the airport and flown to a meeting in the CBD, could you do it?

Any enterprising sorts thought about approaching a forward-thinking building owner to place a rooftop helipad? Is there one already that I just don't know about? I suppose you could land in the Botanic Gardens ... maybe.

[Texdoc]

There is one 'marked' on a building in Brisbane CBD, might be on Lennon's, if not, then nearby. Never seen it used or even if it has been/is suitable for use. You would think the Casino would like to have an HLS nearby,... like where this one was :(

[vetskone]

I recall there used to be a roof top pad on the Sheraton buildong (now the Sofitel?). What became of that? This is going back to the '80's.

[Texdoc]

I would say thats the one I speak of :D Still there it seems, at least the paint work is?

[willybear]

Hi

Before the accident was the heli-pad well used and what was the charge for using the pad? What or who is needed to re open such a facility?

Does anyone think it would be well used if it were re opened?

Will

[helmet fire]

I have read the atsb report, and the above comments, but I am still a little in the dark here. I have experience on only one wheeled helicopter and it was a requirement to calculate the PCN (pavement concession number) for flights into airfields, and consider the point loading when landing. Are these requirements not valid on smaller wheeled helicopters? Are the PCNs so small as to not warrant calculation? This is an assumption given the total absence of PCN from the atsb report, and my ignorance of light wheeled helicopter operations. I ask from that absence and my ignorance rather than to make any criticism of the pilot/owner.

Secondly, I note from the report that the helipad owner's organisation had no aviation expertise. Consultants are expensive. How expensive are accidents?

Thirdly, the report does not reflect John A's assertion above that CASA had a duty of care to this pilot to advise him that the HLS had insufficient load bearing abilities for the A109C. And I still agree. Comments?