Virgin Woes or More Haste - Less Speed?

[Mr Maverick]

The Darwin refueller, a close relative of the Townsville refueller, regails with a story of Virgin trying to make up lost time in Darwin last night. The original delay was due to the United Airlines return to Syd and consequent delays throughout many networks.

The eventual delay ex DRW was the attempt to pushback a 737 with the brakes still parked and an ordinary bolt in the tow bar instead of a shear pin.

A sickening noise was heard and as at 1430, some 12 hours later, the aircraft was still parked, imovable, on Bay 4 (an aerobridge) at DRW.

The Darwin refueller also advises that due to the Darwin Cup festival, only 5 (five) hotel rooms were available for the stranded pax! :\

Maverick knocks on wood!!!

[Capt Claret]

Saw the aircraft parked this morning but couldn't see any obvious signs of damage. Visually compared the rake on the nose wheel with a QF 737 and couldn't see any difference. Maybe the refueller is full of it.

Ouch.

[AN LAME]

I heard of it independent from any refueller, alive, dead or in Townsville. :D So much for not having a LAME on pushback

You pay peanuts you get monkeys

[Wirraway]

from jetspotter Brisbane board

Ian Garton

Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Brisbane
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: DJ9000 gear down flight

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At 2020 tonight VH-VOH will be arriving from Darwin as DJ9000.
Apparently it is flying the entire route with its gear down due to a malfunction of the nose gear.

Crew only on board.

Cheers
Ian..

[SQ Fugitive #2]

I wonder if the crew taking it home is the same crew who like to push back with the brakes in the Don't MOVE position?:confused:

[MoFo]

Brett the spinmeister will put a positive spin on it.

[SQ Fugitive #2]

That's only if the media even bother to report it.

It seems they have QF and J* firmly in their sights.

[McLeod Daughter]

An interesting one, lot of specualtion here..... but no facts.

(and no I dont work for qantas or virgin....but would be happy to work for either in about 300 hours time !..... ;)

I am not a relative of the refuller however was chucking bags
on the fore mentioned flight. It was actually pushed back about ten metres when it happend. so the brakes were obviously off and it had nothing to do with the crew. Something did snap (no i'm not an engineer so cant say what exactly) however it meant the gear couldnt go up apparently. I am suspecting it was something to with a hydraulic line,.....again not sure though.) as the pushback was cancelled when they spotted fluid everywhere.
They tried to get a spare "whatever" however neither them nor qantas had one, and it did fly back yesterday.
I guess compared to where doors are ripped off, landing on runway side lighting (again up here) where actual human error is to blame, this is just ones of those operational things. (s%&t happens as they say)
p.s flight was also pushing back 5 early so had nothing to do with the sydney delays.

[Z Force]

McLeod Daughter don't forget the one that overshot the runway in Darwin after an unstable approach too.

[Keg]

Geez Mcleod, pot calling kettle black WRT the examples of the door and the runway lights. I note that we're conveniently forgetting an over run by a red aeroplane in DN- and then of course there is the QF1 in BKK, not to forget the Connie in Mauritius and so on. :rolleyes:

This stuff just goes round and round in circles. Personally I like to know who is having what happen to them so I can try and learn stuff for myself. This constant resorting to 'trumping' each other with 'who has done it worse' when something like this comes up has to stop though! :mad:

(Was already typing when the previous post lobbed in so didn't see that one when I first responded!)

[The Enema Bandit]

Hey McLeod old son, don't forget the incident where the engineer was still attached to the aircraft when it commenced taxiing. And didn't someone forget to remove the pitot tube covers in Sydney? So stop being a w@nker cos people like me and the other two astute gentlemen can throw **** back. And no, I don't work for the rat and I never will.

[Keg]

Now that I've re-read the post again, there is another thing that springs to mind. The quick jump we make to state 'human error' in labelling a gear door coming off in flight (at 10nm to go to touchdown so speed not extreme) and the various other HF issues that go into a runway excursion (by both airlines). However, there can often be the identical HF issues at work in simple things like a tow bar snap as well.

The gross stupidity of it is to just label it as 'human error' and walk away like it was one person making a mistake. Its this lack of awareness that there are a bunch of contributory factors and one or more of these could have involved a HF issue at some stage along the way that astounds me.

Anyway....back to busted tow bars! QF have them occasionally and we have LAMEs doing the pushback- but not driving the tug itself! ;)

[SQ Fugitive #2]

If I jumped to conclusions I appologise to those concerned but I couldn't resist.
It's hard to think how such a major problem occured during a simple pushback, especially in such a professional port like Darwin.
It seemed logical that if the brakes were set and the pin was not a shear pin then the ramifications would be indeed very damaging.
I would do the same thing if it meant another night in Darwin
;)

[victor two]

It's reported on www.news.com now as a pushback gone wrong due to a poorly trained ground handler. Can't paste the story for some reason sorry. It goes on to explain the low cost factor and lack of engineers etc etc. the flight was full of pax. A mate was on board and heard a loud thump, thought they had pushed back into a truck or something. The aircraft departed late the following day.

cheers

[GT-R]

Stupid Virgins









.

[Tagneah]

There is a LAME in Darwin who DOES man the headset for the pushbacks that ARE done with the aid of a towbar that DOES have the correct pin.

GT-R....................... Ahh never mind.

[Wirraway]

Thurs "The Australian" (Breaking News) ???

Damage stops Virgin flight
By Samantha Baden
July 29, 2004

PASSENGERS had to disembark from a Virgin Blue plane at Darwin Airport after its nose gear was damaged in a botched "push-back" from an aerobridge.

The Virgin plane bound for Brisbane was preparing to leave its bay about 2am (AEST) yesterday when the 737's nose gear was damaged, according to the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA).

The union said the incident occurred because of a communication breakdown between the person in charge of the push-back and the pilot.

As a result, 113 passengers had to leave the plane and their travel was delayed for 24 hours, the airline has confirmed.

The incident appeared to be the result of poorly-trained workers doing jobs that should have been carried out by licensed aircraft engineers, an ALAEA spokesman said.

Both Virgin Blue and Jetstar were operating mainly without engineers in charge of aircraft push-backs, the union said.

"This is just another example of how cost-cutting can compromise the safety of the public," the spokesman said.

"Our position is that the chances of this happening with an experienced engineer in charge of the push-back would be vastly reduced."

No one was injured in the incident and there appeared to be no serious damage to the aircraft.

"But if that nose gear had collapsed, the aircraft would have dropped to the ground, someone outside may have been hit or crushed, passengers or flight attendants inside may have been thrown about and the damage to the aircraft would have been considerable," the spokesman said.

A Virgin Blue spokeswoman said the airline was investigating the incident and confirmed all passengers had been offloaded.

"The aircraft was given a landing gear inspection and has since been cleared," the spokeswoman said.

"Virgin Blue is confident that those operating our equipment, including tugs, do so according to their high level of training."

Jetstar has said all its safety checks meet stringent safety standards set by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and aircraft manufacturer Boeing.

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[TheNightOwl]

It appears that the LAME union is making much of the use of non-engineers being the root cause, but a question comes to mind. Who put the bolt in the tow-bar in place of the shear-pin? I'm damned sure no pilot did that, so who approved the use of non-standard equipment? Before the slagging starts, I'm NOT a pilot, but I was an engineer for over forty years.

Kind regards,

TheNightOwl.:ok:

[EPIRB]

You hold your age well Night Owl!

[TIMMEEEE]

"Virgin Blue is confident that those operating our equipment, including tugs, do so according to their high level of training."

Why of course they operate to such a high standard and incur the wrath of the engineers union.
Good to see Virgins high standard of training has paid off and is yielding results!!!!

So what's Brett Godfrey's spin on this one????

[sinala1]

TheNightOwl,

Glad to see a bit of common sense being spoken on this thread...!

Perhaps there should be "less haste" in other people jumping to conclusions (as seems to be a national sport on PPRUNE) and more patience until the facts are proven?