Question for RN Pilots/Nav/ATC

[OoAyVee]

Hi !

Can I pick on your experience as Royal Navy Pilots/Navigators (WSOs !) or RN Air Traffic Controllers (e.g carrier-based) to help with the following (non-Secret) question please ?

Were a relatively small Civilian UAV operated from a Ship anywhere in the World, what advice would you give regards the following:

1) How to know boundaries of each World Aviation State's Airspace, so that you don't inadvertently encroach, or that you can pre-plan agreed flight into those areas (e.g. is an airspace Map (digital ?) available to the RN for operations in foreign State's airspace/waters) ?;

2) What pre-flight Rules/prior State agreements/permissions exist to fly at low level in coasts/centre of oceans in different corners of the World (e.g. on exercise, for SAR, or other ?);

3) What other permissions/rules do you know that would need to be adhered to (NOT airworthiness or ATC comms/commands/nav) for legal and agreed flight of a civvie UAV from Sea Level to max 1,000ft re: Sea Level around Coasts/in Oceans Worldwide ?;

4) Who is the best RN/MoD Person/Office to contact for RN Low level Carrier Operations Flight Rules and to get in touch with to touch base with requirements of this civvie UAV ?

Many Thanks to all who can help !

:ok:

[rivetjoint]

F.f.f.f.forgive me for asking but why?

[OoAyVee]

Why what, rivetjoint ??

[Oggin Aviator]

We don't have Navs or WSOs.

We have Observers. And damn good they are too.

Rivetjoint is asking why the questions - seems a bit bizarre to me as well.

[mr ripley]

1) See UN Law of the Sea Convention (defines Territorial Airspace)
2) See UN Law of the Sea Convention (defines Territorial Airspace) or country to country MOUs
3) See UN Law of the Sea Convention (defines Territorial Airspace) or country to country MOUs
4) [email protected]
5) Haven't you asked this before?

[OoAyVee]

Hi Guys,

The question takes a slightly different angle from any I've asked before in the sense that I'd like to know how low level flight operations are handled by RN Carrier Aircraft at sea anywhere in the world, when there are Foreign State Airspace issues to contend with.

Here, a UK Civilian UAV is in development to be ship-launched for Oceanographic and related Survey purposes, flight radius from base vessel 200nm+, where the base ship can travel to almost any maritime corner of the globe. It is of interest to ensure that missions are thoroughly pre-planned to avoid diplomatic incidents, and to fit in nicely with local airspace and ATC practices, including those of military/coastguard vessels/aircraft etc. operating at low level in the vicinity.

I am having profitable communications with the Civilian International Organisations, but would appreciate a Military perspective. Since the RN's low level Fleet Air Arm operations are the closest analog to those intended for this basic UAV, it would be of value to use their/your experience.

If nothing else, a person or Office to contact for RN Fleet Air Arm procedures, to whom the above questions can be directed, would be worthwhile. I certainly would want to keep the RN informed of Civvie Maritime UAV activity in their area !

And yes, my fault, Observers you are ! I knew that one !

Thanks Guys !

[ORAC]

Adopt normal naval procedure. Sit just outside the 12 mile limit and launch whenever you like.... :p

[Oggin Aviator]

Depends whose FIR you are in. You have to obey that country's airspace rules. Suggest you check with them or contact the CAA for further guidance.

Or alternatively do what you want then b*gger off overnight into another country's FIR. That's the beauty of naval aviation, the airfield comes with us!

[1970polarbear]

not answering your question but related and i just saw it this morning

Northrop Grumman Helps Air Force Develop Collision-Avoidance System for Unmanned Vehicles (http://www.atc-network.com/site/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=85)

[OoAyVee]

Thanks Guys !!:cool:

[hawkchicken]

OohAyV,

You might want to direct your questions to the RNs resident UAV experts at 792 Squadron at RNAS Culdrose. They currently operate the Mirach 2 rocket powered targets that get used for ship missile practice and they will know all about flying unmanned air vehicles at sea.

Hope I'm not accelerating the demise of my job by helping you! But then I'm sure that UAVs can't rerole for HDS and cabbage delivery so I should be safe.

:)

[SpotterFC]

The people that make the En-Route Supps near London do several different formats, but I don't know if they can supply them to civvies in the same way as they sell the En-Route Supps. Also not sure how 'Global' they are since we only use the UK and environs.

I think Jeppesen also do a set don't they?

[OoAyVee]

Have discussed requirements with Jeppesen already, but thank you nonetheless. That's an idea too, a Cabbage-shipping UAV - might catch on !!! :p I assume then that, given the answers above, the RN uses the UN Convention and Enroute charts only. Is this correct ? Am contacting RNAS Culdrose anyway and await any replies in this regard.

Thanks to all of you who have replied, but please keep it coming, especially if there's a spot-on answer to my queries !!

All the Best ! :ok: