Cert II, Cert IV & Diploma of Aeronautics

[Akumas]

A few weeks ago out of interest, I looked at various local universities and TAFE institutions that offer courses related to aviaiton. I noticed that a TAFE campus offers Certificate II, Certificate IV and a Diploma of Aeronautics. The campus in question is Swan TAFE (http://swan.tafe.wa.edu.au).

The course description:

Your Career In: This qualification provides the theoretical requirements for the Private Pilot’s Licence covering the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) examination. To apply for the Private Pilot’s Licence there is also a requirement for completion of 40 hours of flying time in an appropriate aircraft. Student pilots must also pass a specialised Class 2 Medical Examination by an Approved Medical Officer.

Now, the question(s) are; Does this course (Cert. II in Aeronautics) give you the PPL? Or just the ground study neccisary for the PPL? Does Swan TAFE provide the 40 hours flight time? The reason I ask is the course is only $270 non-concession and $150 concession.

Also, I quote the course outline

Course Outline: CORE UNITS M0872 - Aircraft General Knowledge (30 hours) M0873 - Aerodynamics (30 hrs) M0875 - Meteorology (40 hrs) M0876 - Airplane Performance (20 hrs) M0877 - Human Factors (5 hrs) M0878 - Navigation (40 hrs) M0879 - Flight Rules And Radio Telephony (30 hrs)

I see this is the same outline as many other aero clubs.

So in the end, "Why is Swan TAFE offering this course at such a low price?"

The courses can be seen here. (http://psc23.swan.tafe.wa.edu.au/student/search/CourseList.asp)

Regards :ok:

[Bird Strike]

I don't think the flying hours are included in the cost!

[WTSPT]

With Bird Strike on this, Flying hours are certainly not included in course cost.


:ok:

[Akumas]

Hmmm, well that is fair enough. Although a definate reply would be appreciated :D

[McRippy]

heres a difinate answer. NOOOOOOOOO way. it is only for the theory it doesnt even include the cost of the theory test which i think is about $100 these days.

to do the flying and actually get your licence you'll be up for a bit more.the costs are about $150 an hour for an aircraft times that by 40 you do the math.
good to see your looking at your theory first. but what ever you do always, i mean always question anyone who says you can get a PPL for under $3000 or if someone tells you about a cadetship also be very warry, although many are good but dont want to get started on that subject (if you dont know what they are do a search on these forums). so many flying schools want your money and they will promise you the world.what it comes down to if you want to be a commercial pilot. you will be on **** money for many years and bad conditions but never work for free and chicks dig pilots untill they find out how poor you are,to get that airline job you need a minimum of 500 hours command and the right attitude. so you will not do your training and go into an airline like many flying schools try to make you believe.

[Bird Strike]

McRippy,

CASA is quoting something like an average of 55-60 hours for PPL from memory on their site anyway. Even if someone gets the PPL in 40 hours, $3000 for PPL would be absolutely impossible. Fuel + Instructor + landing fees without aircraft would cost that much, I'd say!

[the wizard of auz]

I did all those courses when they where first offered. they definately don't include any flying.
they are well worth doing though. the cert II is to PPL level and the cert IV is to CPL. The diploma and advanced diploma are aimed at getting you through the ATPL. I sat the exams quite soon after doing the courses and passed them with quite high marks, due to the exposure to the theory stuff during the courses. Its the exposure to the stuff like BGT, high level met and glass cockpit that helps.

[Akumas]

Thanks for your insight everybody. I appreciate it.

wizard - so what you're saying is to do the Cert II in Aeronautics just before one does the PPL test? etc for CPL and ATPL.

Secondly, I have seen pictures of the Swan TAFE C152. What do they use these for?

http://www.ozflightsim.com/jandakot/pictures/aoh_1.jpg

Midland TAFE College of Aviation opening day

http://www.ozflightsim.com/jandakot/other.htm

[SkySista]

Hi Akumas,

I am actually starting this course tomorrow night, (late enrollment due to stuff-up in newspaper ad)

Definitely does not include flying. You'd be looking at around 5 grand at least if you do it in 40 hours, which I suppose if you're really good and study well, know your stuff may happen (here's hoping for me! :D )

I'm not sure what the TAFE arrangements are for flying - going to be asking about all that tomorrow. Either they will organise for those who want to/are able to do lessons every week to do so, or let us do it in our own time. I suppose either is likely. I myself was wondering whether they go thru RACWA or some other flying school down there...

It was mentioned to me when I spoke with the admissions people that text books are extra, does anyone know around how much additional for books, equipment (ie plotters, charts etc) I'd be looking at on top of the flying...?

I'm hoping I'd be able to get through the PPL in around 40-45hrs, as I've done 2 years of Aero when in high school.... fingers crossed!!!!

Sky (who really needs to live closer to YPJT.... :( )

[the wizard of auz]

Akumas, yup, that about sums up what I was saying.
As for the aircraft, well they didn't have one when I did the courses (first set of courses offered)........and I would suspect they still don't have one (look at the sticker on the side of the aircraft). I would suspect that the TAFE would be using Chucks aircraft because he offered them a place to do the training and the aircraft at a discount or some other type of deal, to attract business from a hardly tapped source.
Thats business for ya!.
You are able to do the training where ever you choose to do it...........shop around before you settle on a school.

[SkySista]

Yep, Wiz is right, you can fly wherever/whenever you want. Though one of the lecturers did reccommend that it's better to get some hours in along with the theory, in as short a time as you can- also to be consistent - nothing I haven't heard here really.

Quite a variety in the class, guys in their 20's, 30's, myself and another girl in our early 20's, and one lady who'd I'd guess to be between 40-50 with 100 hours, I think she's just brushing up on Met. & Air Law for the exams.

So now all to do is as Wiz said and shop around for a school. Anyone got any thoughts on glider time while doing a PPL? Some tell me it's a good idea to get a few hours in unpowered craft before you're off on your own on a PPL.....

Sky

[Hydrolix]

40 Hours for a PPL, good luck

Last time I checked, the CASA minimums are 50 hours total, with at least 2 hours I/F and a minimum of 5 hours cross country command. If this is wrong, I apologize but I do believe 50 hours is absolute minimum, ie you cannot get a PPL if you do not have at least 50 hours aeronautical experience.

[Akumas]

Thankyou to everybody for clearing that up :D.

Sky Sista: In which paper did you see the ad? How are you finding the course? I hope you do well with your studies in the future. :ok:

Edit: Oh, by the way.. Jandakot is quiet far out. I'm in the Northern Suburbs so that adds an extra 25km. :*

[Tinstaafl]

Hydrolix, unless there's been a change in the last few years it's 40 hrs minimum prior to the PPL flight test. Within those 40 hrs there must be at least:

* 2 hrs IF (1 hr may be in an approved synthetic trainer). If the course doesn't structure some of the IF into other flights ie reserves flight time for 'IF only' purposes it tends to increase the total time needed for a course to
meet the requirements.

* 10 hrs command (of which at least 5 must be x-country)

* 20 hrs nav (including the above mentioned command x-country)

etc etc

There's no particular requirement to do a GFPT prior to the nav training, although it can simplify things a bit. Doing one can add an hour or two to the flight time if it's structured as an 'add on' to the basic course + the PPL test adding its own couple of hours.

[Hydrolix]

Apologies all.
40 hours is the minimum as of April 2004.
Sorry

[SkySista]

Sky Sista: In which paper did you see the ad? How are you finding the course? I hope you do well with your studies in the future.

Thanks Akumas!!

I have had my first classes tonight, we had Met. & Air Law. It was pretty good, the guy who does Met. is very laid back. Basically we have the books and progress through a unit per week for each subject (I am doing Met., Air Law, Nav., Human Factors, & A/C Gen. Knowledge. (The other two are Aerodynamics & AP&O, which I don't really need)

I couldn't really tell you what it's like, as tonight was the first one, everyone was still getting into it and the stuff we did was pretty basic - should be able to tell you more next week. If you want to know anything else, just let me know :)

The people in the class range in ages etc, some are doing all subjects, some are only doing one or two; we have a guy going for GFPT next week, a lady who'd got 100hours & cramming for exams, a tug driver who wants to do ATC, and some who have never flown before.

If you wanted to get in for this semester, I think you still could, but they'll more than likely be running both the PPL & CPL courses next year. PPL is night and CPL daytime classes.

I saw the ad in a local paper but they run them in the West usually around the end of Semester 1 as well.

Hydrolix, 40 hours may be the minimum but I think it's a tad too optimistic for me!!! ;)

Sky

[Hydrolix]

Hey Sky, I think 40 hours is too optimistic for anyone. It was for me about 3 years ago. I think I did it in about 50. Seemed to be the norm around then.

[Akumas]

Hi, when you say 'local paper', which one? The Swan Area?
:)

[SkySista]

Hi guys, sorry for delay in reply, didn't see these new posts :)

As to the whole hours thing, I guess I'll just have to work a bit harder to get some more cash, eh? nature of the industry I spose.

Akumas, I think the ad was in the Echo or Hills Gazette, one of those small weekly papers. I have also seen liftouts in the West, usually in June/July, for the various TAFE campuses.

If you're thinking about doing, I think there's still space in the PPL class. Hopefully next year it's in the daytime... am feeling a bit like a mushroom with the nights...!

Sky