QF recruitment technicalities........

[Gearupandorrf]

Hi everyone,
Just wondering if anyone would be able to offer some information on a couple of aspects of QF Pilot Recruitment.

Just to fill you in on my situation.
I'm an Aussie who did the conversion from the Oz CPL to a JAA CPL/ IR and now have about 300 hrs TT, including about 150 hrs of P1 time. We moved to the UK about 9 months ago now. I'm 30 years' old, which I know is quite old by QF standards to only have about 300 hrs in the log book.

I actually asked Robyn (Hindes?) in QF recruitment some time ago if my conversion to a JAA license and moving to the UK to gain some "heavy" time would demonstrate to a QF Pilot interview panel that I am truly motivated to pursue a flying career with Qantas, given my age. Her answer was in the affirmative.

I'm now working as an Operations Assistant for a largish Airline here in the UK, and it looks like I'm going to start flying for them before the end of the year.

The equipment will either be the HS748 or the SH360, on night freight ops all over the UK and Europe.

I've looked at the QF Pilot Recruitment website recently, and noted the following DEP requirements:

1. 250 Hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (of which up to 100 hours may be ICUS) and 1000 hours FO time on turbine RPT ops.

OR:

2. 150 Hours in command of fixed wing aircraft (excluding ICUS) and 1500 hours FO time on turbine RPT operations.

Both of these scenarios are the most likely that I'll face, due to the fact that I'll be joining an Airline as an FO so I won't be able to get the 500 Hours PIC. In addition to this, commands in my Airline take quite a while to qualify for. I will, however, be quite close to either the 150 or 250 hours PIC as per the examples above.

So this is my question:
Both points 1 and 2 above state that the FO time must be on RPT
ops. This may sound stupid but I want to clarify; because my upcoming turbine FO time is going to be on night freight ops, Qantas will disregard it in the context that it is not RPT??

Could anyone "in the know" shed some light on this one?
Keg? Lancer?

All info greatly appreciated ,
Cheers, Gearup.

PS: Geez I miss Australia!!

[thinking pilot]

Stay in England mate, don't worry about Qantas too much, we all know how subjective their selection process is.

When I submitted an application many moons ago I was told at 30 years of age with 2500hrs and an ATPL that my experience was not commensurate with my age.

Many people would kill to have a JAR licence.

Is there a problem with "right of abode" in England.

Good luck.

[redsnail]

gearup,
In the UK, no one uses RPT as a term. "Airline" is used. The freight ops is done on JAR 25 a/c which means 2 pilot ops. Also, you'll be flying IFR in some fun IMC too. This should suffice for Qantas. Winter isn't too far off so start getting the thermals ready. Trust me, you'll need them in the Shed. :ok:
As you know, in the UK you can log "command" from the RHS so long as you fulfill the provisos that go with that.
From memory, you'll average about 500-600 hours a year on the Shed (maybe more if you do a heap of Kasels) so you'll be looking at around 3-4 years till command.

However, to be honest with you, don't stay there that long. Grab your 500 or even 1,000 hours and bug out to a bigger mob.
I really hope you've applied to BA Citiexpress!!

[Gearupandorrf]

G'day Thinking Pilot,
Yeah, I do feel extremely priviledged to hold a JAA CPL/ IR.

Apart from actually saying goodbye to family and friends at Melbourne when we left, it's been the hardest thing I've ever done.

No probs with the visa to live here, as my Wife has the Right of Abode for the UK (Mum & Gran from Northern Ireland). At the moment, she's looking into getting a Northern Irish Passport, as that opens the rest of the EU up for us as well.

HOWEVER: and no disrespect to the Brits here, but our current way of life and living standards are but a shadow of what we enjoyed in Australia.

When we planned to come to the UK, it was on the basis of being here for about 5- 6 years, getting the hours that I need for QF/ DJ/ JQ and coming home.

I'm mad keen on flying, and as a younger lad I used to dream about flying something with a BIG red tail. However, my experience here has taught me one big lesson, that it is important to cherish all other aspects of life outside of flying.

After I've done a couple of years on HS748's and SH360's, I hope to be able to go on to 737's or A320's for a while.

BUT: I miss my homeland, and my family and friends. If given the chance, I definitely wouldn't pass up the opportunity to come home and fly a large Turboprop for a Regional after a while . My hurdle doing that though is that I won't have the 500 PIC that I beleive is required.

I guess it's a balancing act- career progression O/S compared to lifestyle.

Once I've been flying here for 5 years I hope to have in the order 3000-4000 hours at age 35. Bearing in mind that almost all of this time will be as an F/O on heavy Turboprops and Jets, I beleive that this should counter the age issue with QF for me. It's a bit different to being 35 with 3000- 4000 hours Instructional time on pistons. (NO DISREPECT MEANT TO THESE GUYS/ GIRLS EITHER).

Cheers,
Gearup.

Hi Reddo,
Great to hear from you! What are you up to at the moment, post Emerld??

You\'re right, working in Ops at the big green sandpit is, ummm, interesting. Probably about the most stressful working environment I\'ve ever encountered. Still, overall a nice bunch of people to work with and some "interesting" characters thrown in.

It should pay off soon though. New contracts coming up in Europe for the 748\'s and ATP\'s, and more Channel Island work for the Sheds. Would love to get on the Shed, the 748 guys are only getting about 250- 300 hours a year in the logbook at the moment. This may change with increased European work though.

Nah- didn\'t apply to BA CityExpress at all. My hours at work have kept me away from Pprune lately.

With my hours is there a chance that my application would have been accepted??

Talk soon,
Gearup.

[bigfella5]

Interesting....can you elaborate as to when you were knocked back with the "experience commesurate with age line?" Can anybody actually give some info on this situation? Does it still exist? Is it legal? WHAT IN HELL DOES IT ACTUALLY MEAN?

[thinking pilot]

Bigfella 5,

I was knocked back in 1992.

I think it may now be illegal to use the term,"commensurate with age".

I can imagine they still discriminate with the age thing, the only difference is they don't put it in writing.

Cheers

[Gearupandorrf]

Hey guys,
The answer is simple!

"Age not commensurate with experience" has simply turned into "application not competitive".

It's a superb way of legally knocking you back for any reason whatsoever, whilst avoiding any accountability for the reason. From what I hear, retrospective feedback is strictly not available from QF Recruitment as to where an applicant has failed.

Cheers,
Gearup.
:mad:

[Sir Donald]

Gearup,

You come across as someone who is in search of that perfect life.
Well’’ Wake up, it aint going to happen mate’’ If I were you, and believe I was there too, get your CV going because no plan is full proof.
Just ask yourself what if with this Shed job, then what? Think about why you did not apply to BACX. With most jobs sometimes it just happens, if you are there in the right place at the right time. The only way you can achieve that is by doing just that, finding time to apply to everyone.
Be careful not to exaggerate the reason why you are here, as HR can see right through you, ‘’only to get you hours and hurry up home’’.
I would greatly appreciate it if you could just think what that remark does for Aussies-including my self, that actually prefer the UK to Aus.
G’day
Sir Don

[Gearupandorrf]

Sir Don,
Mate, did not intend to cause any offence, but I think that you've misunderstood me.

I'm not after that "perfect life" that you refer to. However, I am a fairly ambitious person that has a few goals in life and it is important to me (personally) to reach them. These include:

1. To build a successful flying career.
2. To be able to fulfill (1) and enjoy living in the Country that I love, my homeland and where my family is.
3. To build my own business so that if, down the line, I get bored/ disillusioned with (1), I don't have to worry about calling anyone else boss (apart from me).

(and personally I think that 3. is a good one to have- many Pilots leave the profession early for a huge range of reasons. There should be something to fall back on).

Some people may not be so clear as to what they want out of life and how they will get there, but I certainly won't judge them for it. I know all too well that a perfect life "aint going to happen", so please don't cut me down for having a few personal objectives to work to.

Yes, I thouroughly agree with you. I need to be at the right place at the right time to score the job. Which is exactly why I'm working my guts out in the Operations Department for a largish Airline- on barely enough money to live on despite working long hours through day and night shifts. So, please tell me, how can I put myself in a better position to make my own luck? That Shed/ 748 job may or may not come along, but given my low hours I have put myself in the strongest position that I can by working in the Operations Dept. I've temporarily stopped applying to other Airlines because at the moment I'm working as hard as I possibly can to do well where I am, so I have little time to myself. But yes, I do agree, I should find more time to build more contacts so as not to have all of the eggs in one basket.

The only people who know my future plans re: going back home to fly when possible, are yourself and all the other Ppruners. It is an aspiration that I have in my flying career, so if I can't discuss it here, then where can I?? If I was running around work blurting it out, then fair enough, however this is a public forum that was created for such discussion. You know, one of the most common questions that I get asked at work is "why on earth did you leave Australia to come over here?" All I tell them is that I am here to build a flying career, no more no less.

Sir Don, you are obviously older than me, have been in the UK for longer and have managed to make a good life here for yourself. To that I say well done, and good for you (genuinely). However, I just don't see the UK as a long term option. For us, it doesn't feel like home. It's only through hard work, lots of support and some good fortune to boot, that being here is an option for us. I know that we are priviledged to be in this position. But one day we want to go home, and this whole thread was aimed at getting the info that will help us do that. We will, however, enjoy what the UK and Europe has to offer.

So mate, sorry for making you feel a certain way but it's a genuine opinion in a relevant forum.

Keep enjoying life here in the UK!
Cheers,
Gearup.

[Sir Donald]

Gearup

You did not offend me; I was trying to give you some advice- keep your options open.

Yes I worked in the industry my self for a while???2 and a bit years, whilst converting my licence and it is a good starting point.
Looks like you are on the right track and I hope that it pays off for you. However keep hassling away, do not stop, anyway that you can.I only know too good when something does not go the way that it was hoped for.

I like and enjoy the UK because the mentality is different and the weather is fine as well(at FL350).

For QF the entry is as an S/O, my question is if one has 3000 hours 737 why can’t they go straight on the 737 as an F/O, instead of wasting their experience as a cruise pilot (that is not directed at anyone just an example, I know how hard it is for one to get there).
That and a host of other things is what I find so ridiculous about our system and hence my being here.
Old, naa only 30 going on 18.

So keep plugging away and best of luck, honestly.
SD

[Bula]

Hey guys..

just a quick question.. you both have/are working outside the flying side of things in the UK before taking up that beautiful position up at FL350 or about to take up that position at FL150....

Quick Question

Did you fellas have contacts over there with these companies or where would you point a fella whose looking at doing the same thing .. i.e. a job in the industry to make contacts while looking for a job.

thanks guys

[*Lancer*]

Hi Gearup,

Interesting one! The way I read it, the scheduled transport of freight is officially charter. I guess ultimately it will come down to what the intent and considered definition of 'RPT' is... Obviously, best to get a ruling from Robyn Hind if you're unsure about it. :ok:

Sorry to be of so little help!

Lancer