Best of the 19-seat airliners?

[apacau]

Been wondering about this for a while - what is the pick of the 19-seat props used for RPT commuter flights these days?

Off the top of my head, I come up with 4 common ones:
- Metro
- B1900C
- B1900D
- Bandit

What's the preferred type for the following criteria:
- speed & operating altitudes (performance)
- passenger comfort/perception
- reliability & maintenance costs
- pilot preference
- cost to acquire/lease

I suppose overall, if one were looking at acquiring this size aircraft for a small regional airline operation, which would you pick and why?

[F111]

Looking at your criteria I would say the following;

The B1900D wins for passenger comfort/perception, pilot preference, speed/performance and reliability.

The Bandit would come in second base on passenger comfort (a larger cabin then both the Metro and 1900C), cost to acquire/lease, reliability & maintenance costs. The only problem is it's only good for a range of 200nm.

The Metro is cheap to buy and operate , but passenger don't like them. The 1900C is a little more expensive to operate than the Metro, the cabin is a little better than the Metro.

What I want to know is what is the pick of the 29-36 seat turboprops. So out of the Saab 340, EMB 120, Jetsteam 41 and the Dash 8 (100/200) which one is the preferred type based on the same criteria;

- speed & operating altitudes (performance)
- passenger comfort/perception
- reliability & maintenance costs
- pilot preference
- cost to acquire/lease

[LGW Vulture]

What's wrong with the Jetstream 31? ;)

[DVR6K]

Eastern are quite happily operating the J31 around the UK n'est-ce pas?

Can't think of anyone else that operates a/c that small in the UK. Apart from my Dad who operates a PA28...

[apacau]

I'd forgotten the J31. Oops :\

So from the above, if cheap-as-chips is the way to go, go with the metro. If you want to make your passengers happy and make the trip go fast, go with the B1900D!

And speaking of the J31, how does that fit into the equation?

[411A]

If you want a J31/32, take a trip to Kingman Arizona, where you will find about 90 of 'em stored.
Gotta be a reason.

Likewise for the Saab 340, only not quite the number stored...only about 30 or so.

From my perspective, the dash 8 wins hands down.

Metro?
Only if you have enough guys on the payroll to fix the fuel leaks.
This number may be more than your pax.:uhoh:

[F111]

The J31 has good passenger appeal and is cheap to purchase ($300000 USD) but it does not like the heat. You would need to look at the J32 EP (aka O'Connor Airlines).

Any more comments re the 30 seat aircraft

[Habib]

Surely the Metro I or II is the most desirable of aircraft for all of the reasons below.

- speed & operating altitudes (performance)

The Metroliner is a very fast aircraft, both on takeoff and landing. Especially on approach, I beat many a Boeing down the final to the runway. Such a splendid time we have waving merrily to the passengers and flight deck as we quickly pass them within the marker and beat them to the terminal. Such merriment, for so small an airliner!

Indeed, even for most of the time you are on the runway you will be going very fast. The aircraft can also be flown right up to its redline speed, which is assuredly faster than many would like to operate the aircraft. Never to mind the fact that it will not fly very high, (which is just as well since it doesn't climb very fast). It will descend most expeditiously though, so one need not take so long in getting down. It is a great timesaver to be able to get down well. If you can see the button, you can assuredly hit it in a Metroliner.

- passenger comfort/perception

If a tree tips in the forest, does it make any noise? How could one tell in a Metroliner? The bellowing of its mighty engines masks all of the speech of the passengers. The only way to tell if they are saying anything at all is to turn and smile at them. No doubt their gesturing and yelling is to display their delight and urge us towards our destination, (few of them realize our steed will deliver us as fast as lightning, and just as loudly)!

- reliability & maintenance costs

Surely this is the greatest advantage to this airliner. There were so many made, due to their popularity, that nearly anyone can operate an airline with them. When it is time to maintenance them, one can fit many at a time into the hangar that would take only one Boeing since their wings are so short. This saves the cost of having a much larger hangar saving signifcant expenses for the operator.

Some say that the aircraft is much more complex than it must be to fly. It is apparent that most Metroliner operators have discovered that this aircraft can be operated with far fewer systems than it was originally certified with. The JATO bottle is no longer made for it, but that is only needed if one engine fails. Water-methanol injection will carry the day! It is so over-engineered that there are two systems to deal with an engine failure. Such a blessing, and a demonstration of the genius of those that designed this wonder for the pilots.

- pilot preference

Who would be foolish enough to ask if the pilot prefers this aircraft? Of course we love it. Simply walking towards it across the tarmac, swells our chests with pride. If the performance, previously described is not enough, the very look of the aircraft assures us that she is ready to carry us beyond the horizon! Her short wings let her slip through the ether without the drag of aircraft burdened by an aspect ratio. The huge engines, though now silent, require very long gear struts to allow the massive propellors to clear the ground as it taxis. If all this is not enough, any pilot is impressed by the massive yoke. It has the same, or greater, control pressures than a Convair 580.

A disadvantage? Of course not! We are men and have no need of boosted controls (or autopilots) that the elderly Boeing pilots require to assist them. To command an aircraft such as this is proof that we are superior aviators, and not girlie-men (though our hearing may not be quite as good as it once was).

- cost to acquire/lease

Again, this is a great advantage to such an aircraft. No doubt they cost less to lease than many others. In fact, I have heard that some will pay to take the lease off their hands (but this is just a rumor and probably not true....I think).

[Dockjock]

You'll find that the general operating characteristics improve in direct proportion to acquisition/operating costs.

So, the order of preference AND cost breaks down like this:
1. B1900D
2. B1900C
3. J32
4. SA227
5. J31
6. EMB110 (bearing in mind the bandit is unpressurized and not really in the same category)

As is would for the 30/35-seaters:
1. Do328
2. DHC-8
3. J41 (however rare)
4. EMB120
5. SF340

[Sheep Guts]

The good old DHC-6-300 would in the same category as the Bandit! And would win by a mile on maintenance costs compare to Bandit also.
Ive Carried 18 fat yanks and a F0 in a Twotter, and their bags to a degree, errr we did leave some :(


Sheep

P.S. Hey it had to be said.:cool:

[seatrumpeter]

I drive the Bro in the US. It will kick your a++ if you let it.

It is the fastest airplane in it's category. We are forever being told to slow down because we are following a Dash 8 or Saab. It also comes with an APU as standard which really helps on hot days or at our remote outstations.

However the cabin is small compared to the Dash 8 (any variant) and the Bro doesn't do very well at high altitude takeoffs ( we fly out of 4-6k airports regularly and are always weight limited in summer).

I think our company is looking to replace the Bro with another turboprop. The thing is, I don't think there is really anything available other than Dash 8s (as far as new airplanes goes).

Ray

[haughtney1]

well my 10 cents worth..it has to be the embraer product..110 120...perhaps im biased, having not yet scaled the heights of Mr Saab, or Mr Bombadier..yet. I can however say that one cold stormy night spent in the right hand seat of a metro was more than enough for me!...it scared the living s@*t out of me. As for the J31 and family..well I dunno..they dont look good to me..and anything that aint good lookin..aint good flyin. 1900's...arent they a kingair on steroids?

[Trislander]

It has to be the DHC-8. The 'Wide-body regional airliner' is the most spacious and quietest in it's class. Even though it doesn't have the speed of the Do328, that aside it has to be the nicest for the pax.

The Dash 8 Delta (Q400) beats all turboprops hands down though with it's speed, comfort and operating costs.

Probably comes under the bandit heading, but what about the Trislander? 17 pax seats and a pilot. It's piston not turboprop though which probably excludes it from this debate altogether I guess?

Tri:ok:

[Atlanta-Driver]

Metro. It was quirky on take off and landing, noisy and in eralier models equipped with a hodgepodge instrument panel. I didn't particularly like earlier TPE331's with the manual enrichment function. But it was FAST and onced you got it going it went like a bat outta h.ell. There's little surprise that from PAX point of view all these smaller 19 seaters are less than desirable.

One aircraft that could have been a real hit was the EMB123. I reall wanted to fly that one. Never went to production though.

Of the 30 something seaters DHC8 must be the best one. I have flown the EMB120 and as PAX in the DHC8 and SF340.

AD

[rotornut]

But aren't the early DHC-8s noisy? Never been in one but my friends say they are. However, I understand the later models have a noise cancelling system in the cabin.

[eyeinthesky]

What about Do228? Any experiences/niggles to relate?

[B737NG]

....because the DO228 has no pressured Cabin. That makes the
Plane not comparable with the Jetstream, Beech or the Metroliner.

[Phil Brockwell]

As with all areas of aircraft purchase, it is horses for courses. Surely anyone buying an aircraft would do so based around a plan of what they want to achieve, not buy the "best" aircraft and then plan a business around it. I think you are asking the question backwards. What do you want to acheive? Then choose the aircraft.

Phil

[Dockjock]

Do328 max cruise is 330kts so that would make it faster than the EMB120(ER) right (305kts)? 25 extra knots for almost double the price!!

With respect to Bro hot/high ops were you flying the ER version seatrumeter?

[747CLASSIC]

Hey 411A,
Can you tell me who is the proud owner of all that hardware (J31/32 & Saab340's) that is parked at Kingman? I know someone that is looking for a couple of cheap and reliable light twins. Thanks.
Classic