Most realistic flight sim software, opinions?

[KR7]

I'm planning on eventually getting a PPL or a RPP, but right now I just want to start studying on my own first and get familiar with things so that when I actually begin the training I'll be able to move along quickly.

I was wondering if any of you has tried out different flight sim softwares and know which one is the most realistic and would help the most in actually learning to fly, rather than just being a "game" for entertainment.


I've heard microsoft flight sim is pretty good... is there much difference between the 2002 and 2004 versions, as far as helping one to learn goes? Are there other softwares out there you guys think is better for this purpose?



thanks a lot
K.R.

[GJB]

Flight Sim is good fun only.

they only software i rate for professionsl purposes is RANT

[sawotanao]

Have to agree with GJB. Flight Sim ok, but u may find yourself fixing your eyes on the instruments too much....you want to be looking outa that screen!...only difference between '02-'04......the price!IMHO.For the professional training: found that R.A.N.T is great for the IR. Got 'On top' which is ok for a bit of CPL/IR consolidation.(PA28R) Good luck withyour PPL.:ok

[2close]

MS FS2002 is OK, if you're using the UK Photographic Scenery package, which can help with VFR navigation / map reading practice - I've used it many times for checking out routes before flying them for real and it has been exceptional - however, it is only as good as its up to date accuracy and there are no plans to issue new photo patches as far as I'm aware (my own area has changed a fair bit recently). You also need a fairly high end machine with exceptional graphics for it to be of any benefit.

Check out:

www.visualflight.co.uk

Apart from this personal note, the earlier replies are on the ball.

[wbryce]

I haven't heard of Rant, can anyone post me a URL where i can read up on it?

I wouldn't mind using some software to help the ole flying.

What part of your flying does RANT focus on, im only pre PPL at present, but looking at taking my flying further.

[mstram]

You can download FlightGear for free from here
http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/binary.html

It's free, GPL'd software. You need a fast system though with a video card that can do opengl. It doesn't run all that well on my "ancient" 650 hz machine

You can download a demo of xplane here. Runs for 5 minutes, then on autopilot only
http://x-plane.com/

Note, both downloads are *big* ~ 80 meg !

As for what's more realisitc, I think that they are all pretty similar, and only have subtle differences. Xplane *has* been approved by the FAA for training (in combination with the right hardware), so it might have a slight edge.

MSFS2002 (or even 2000 if you can find a copy and probably cheaper), are both pretty similar. MSFS strong suit is the scenery.


Mike

GJB,

>Flight Sim is good fun only.

Do you not think that *anything* can be learned from a sim ?

MSFS is a big reason why I learned to fly.

I didn\'t know *anything* about the inside of a plane or piloting until I fired up MSFS. The lessons that are included (Machado) are a great intro IMO.

I still play with it just for the fun of it, and when I can\'t afford to fly for real, usally either "flying" t&g\'s at my home airport, or practicing IFR.

It\'s great for practicing x-c, and for mentally reheasing flying through controlled airspace, which there\'s a lot of around my airport (CNC3, Brampton Ont).

As for being "fixated" on instruments, I never had that problem when I started to fly for real. Even in the sim, I divide my attention bewteen the "outside" and inside the same as for real.

Mike

[High Wing Drifter]

I have now bought ELITE and think it is the best software out there for instrument practice. RANT is cool to start with, but once you know what to do with the instruments its usefulness falls rapidly. FS2002/4 is OK but like X-Plane is much too finicky, pinickity and annoying to be useful. ELITE is about as close to practicing like you fly that you are likely to get without speding sh*t loads. It even works on a basic machine. Price is about £80 for the 172/Archer version now I think (recent price slash). Their email support is very good too.

www.flyelite.ch.

[KR7]

thanks guys

but yea anyone know where I can find more info on RANT? I looked up gamespot and google but couldn't find it.


I'll certainly check out flightgear too since it's free

[Cool_Hand]

For what it's worth, if you're still to do your PPL, I would suggest either MSFS 2002/4 (as long as your machine is up to it) 2004 looks slightly prettier) I still use both.

It's good for the mid range of speeds, i.e. climbs, turns, straight and level and gives a good appreciation of how all the instruments work. Not too good at the edges of the envelope (stall/spin etc.).

RANT, will be of use when you come to do the IMC/IR, but PPL is on the cards at the moment and RANT is a bit overkill in my opinion. As you move on Proflight professional, (used to be free), RANT, Elite, the costs start elevating though, could all have use.

[Ropey Pilot]

Don't think anyone has actually mentioned so far that RANT is not a sim in the sense I believe you are wanting in that you do not use joystick etc. but you hit a 'turn' button then a 'stop turn' button and do on.

It is great training for your full IR as it is a procedural trainer but I would have thought of very little use for PPL.

[KR7]

well that's good to know.. heh. I'm just concerned with PPL right now and that's probably as far as I'll go (not planning to make this a career, just for fun). I don't even know what IMC/IR is...

so I guess I should just go with MSFS then. The 2004 has the virtual cockpit where you can turn knobs/switches with the mouse, although I'm not sure how well it'd run on my 1.3GHz system.

oh btw I wanted to ask what kind of hardware setup you guys use. do you just use a simple joystick with keyboard rudder control? or is it any better to get a rotatable joystick and use that as rudder control

[High Wing Drifter]

Yeah well if I had actually read the question properly then I might be more use than a chocolate teapot!

ELITE and RANT are hopeless for a PPL. Where VFR flying is an art, IFR is a science and that is where sims do pay real dividends.

For your PPL MSFS is more than enough to get the hang of the procedures but, IMHO, won't help at all with the flying; it may even make things worse as you can't really develop the right VFR habits with a sim as they are so different.

If you are like me, then after the first couple of hours you realise how pointless it is trying to practice PPL stuff in a sim.

Good luck with the PPL!
HWD.

[2close]

I use 2002 because the photographic VFR scenery is apparently better on 02 than 04 - on a RAID P4 2.4GHz XP Pro platform with 1 GB RAM and a 256MB Graphics card, with CH Products Yoke and Rudder Pedals.

You'd think I've got it made for VFR flying but I get problems such as left turning tendency - one click of right rudder trim does not even it out - I get right turning tendency, and maintaining Straight and Level flight is only achieved by flying the aircraft hands-on at all times, otherwise you're up and down like the Assyrian Empire. Add to that the self induced gyro errors that throw the DI out by about 5 degrees per minute and a bloody annoying ATC that insists I change frequency every few minutes to controllers that don't exist in real life and I've got a higher workload than I would experience in the real world.

Which isn't altogether a bad thing as taking up a real C-172 or Archer then becomes quite pleasurable with little profanity - I couldn't speak to real controllers the way I address their cyber-ethereal colleagues.

But, as I posted earlier, VFR photographic scenery, with VFR terrain and GB airports, used with real charts and approach plates is a major step forward for very cheap, effective FNPT training - even if not officially recognised. I c***ed up the NDB/DME approach into my home field the other day and have been praticing now at home to work out what I was doing wrong - for the grand total of £0 and 00p. It WILL be better this afternoon.

[mstram]

hwd :
>but, IMHO, won't help at all with the flying; it may even make things worse as you can't really develop the right VFR habits with a sim as they are so different.

I'm interested in hearing your rationale for that statement.

IMO one of the basics of VFR flying is learning how the aircraft attitude in relation to the horizon affects the airspeed, climb and descent rates, and rate of turn. This can all be introduced nicely in the sim.

After control of the aircraft is somewhat "mastered", the other big part of VFR flying is situational / position awareness. While the "external views" in a sim, are not quite as good as the real thing, they are still pretty good. MSFS in particular has always been very strong with the scenery, and there are easy to use tools available to make the scenery even more realistic.

I've used the sim to rehearse x-c flights too. Much more interesting and more fun than only doing a "paper map" rehearsal.

Airline training is almost entirely done in sims these days, as well as training in business jets, military aircraft, etc.

I don't think the precise realism of the sim is the crucial factor in learning. What is important, is that it gives you an environment where you can "think flying", and stay mentally sharp. Unless you have the $$$ to fly all of the time, a flight sim is the next best thing.


>You\'d think I\'ve got it made for VFR flying but I get problems such as left turning tendency - one click of right rudder trim does not even it out - I get right turning tendency, and maintaining Straight and Level flight is only achieved by flying the aircraft hands-on at all times, otherwise you\'re up and down like the Assyrian Empire.

What plane are you using?

Most of the default aircraft are not setup very well. Why? Who knows. They tend to be *very* pithc sensitive. Go to www.avsim.com, or flightsim.com, and download something with better flight dynamics.


> a bloody annoying ATC that insists I change frequency every few minutes

I\'ve never used the built in ATC.

If you want to practice ATC, I\'d suggest joing up on one of the online ATC\'s, i.e. "vatsim". I don\'t use it myself, but apparently some of the guys take it pretty seriously, and adhere pretty closely to "real life" controlling.



Mike

[KR7]

well i tried out flightgear... it doesn't run well on my system at all... the refresh rate I got was about 1Hz, and there's a about half a second delay to all my inputs. and then after a while it froze and died


I'm gonna get MSFS 02 or 04 tomorrow and see how it goes

[Capt. Manuvar]

As I stated in another forum, MSFS helped me a lot in my PPL training so I totlally disagree with the negative comments that have been made so far. I was able to do ex1-19 in 30hrs. People have problems during the transition from sims to aircraft because they learnt the wrong way. I used trevor thom book 1. I learnt to fly using the horizon as a so I had no problem when it came to the real thing. And aas has been said above the PC sims can be very useful for practsing Navs.
I'm currently using the baron on FS2004 to practise for my MEIR. Then I'll only need about 5hrs in the real thing before i face the examiner:}
Capt. M

[Pole Hill]

High Wing Drifter,

Price is about £80 for the 172/Archer version now I think (recent price slash).

Thanks for raising that point :ok: I have been on to the Elite web-site, and the cost of the core version that you were talking about was about £67. It seems though that they want to charge £17 for postage. I'm very tempted to buy a copy :)
POL

[Charley]

I'll try to provide the factual info first. RANT can be found at www.oddsoft.co.uk. Although useless for teaching you to fly an aeroplane in terms of 'stick'n'rudder' skills, it is great for practicing radio navigation at all levels, even for the PPL. Seeing how something works can be instantly more enlightening than reading about it.

Now for my two penneth on flight sims, or in particular their relevance for light aircraft. Having done plenty of flying, plenty of gliding and the occasional bit of simming (all post-PPL), my own personal recommendation would be to exercise caution in using a PC flight sim to learn to fly, especially if you've no prior experience of using the real thing.

If you have got some real hours, a flight sim can - in many ways - be beneficial for keeping sharp and in practice. However you'd be operating from a position of strength, so to speak, knowing from experience how the PC will differ from the real thing.

If you learn on a PC before climbing into a real aircraft, you may be in for some rather significant surprises. Some examples of which include control forces, trimming and judging the flare and roundout when landing. Trimming is perhaps the second-most vital skill involved in VFR flying (after performing a good lookout) and a computer flight sim does not really teach one to trim particularly accurately. Perhaps I'm alone in this view, but I trim by 'feel' and without that feel (and you don't get it in MSFS, for example) you have to compensate in other ways.

There was an interesting TV programme on the other day, about a x-hundred hour PC flight simmer who tried to have a go at landing a light aircraft. He flew a stable final approach but the instructor had to take it over for the flare. It was mentioned in the Flying Instructors & Examiners forum and they put their own spin (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138450) on the topic of computer flight sims.

My personal advice would be to get the first few hours of your PPL training under your belt first, then use the PC to train further once you have had a taste of the real thing. Failing that, at least do some homework on how you should be learning to fly and the pitfalls to avoid if learning to do it on a PC.

Cheers
Charley

[Justiciar]

Any sim is very useful for practicing instrument approaches for the IMC. I used MSFS2002. I set the cloud at about 1000' and fly different profiles from different directions. It is so satisfying to pop out of the cloud with the runway right where it should be. It is particularly useful to help you get to grips with NDB approaches. Setting random wind gets you used to which way the ADF moves and what you have to do to correct it. It also helps in coordinating descent out of the hold onto the ILS and doing procedure turns onto final track etc.

Of course its not perfect and ultimately no substitute for the real thing, but it certainly saved me a few hours in the air. Getting my head round the ADF was the most difficult part of the IMC course for me.

[KR7]

hey Charley thanks for the post. I was just going to ask about the exact same thing and you answered a step in front of me.


I've just started using MSFS a bit, and I've found it's virtually impossible to use the keyboard as rudder control (so gotta leave auto-rudder on). and you're right about the trimming, using keyboard for trimming is quite annoying too (takes me like 30 seconds to trim everytime). I'm planning to re-assignm the trim control to my mouse wheel and see if that helps.


but anyway, back on topic, so what are some of the bad habbit I should avoid while trying to learn on a flight sim, and what are the good ones to develope? I probably won't be able to start real flight training anytime soon (going away for school pretty soon), but I'll prepare as much as I can with the sim.


It'll probably take some motivation to keep up at it though, heh, I actually don't even LIKE flight sims... lol. I'm doing it solely for learning purpose. If I wasn't trying to get a PPL I probably would never touch MSFS...

[Justiciar]

I really don't see the value of a sim for PPL training. The contrast between sitting at home looking at a screen and sitting the a real aircraft with the feel, sound and visibility is huge. Rather than spend hours in front of a computer, a few hours gliding would be much more valuable (and cheeper than powered flight lessons). Even finding some kind person to take you as a 'passenger' with the chance to feel the controls would help far more.

If you do use a sim then a stick or yoke is a must. when I fly IMC on the sim I assign forward and aft trim to two of the buttons on the stick. Trimming is so important in real flight as it is the key to maintaining straight and level flight. Unfortuantely you cannot experience the reduction of control forces with trimming on the sim, which is a big down side.

[Spike001]

Buy Fs2004, along with VFR UK scenery, and OSS London Gatwick 2004 - because I made it :ok:

http://onlinesimulationsolutions.com/


Cheers

[High Wing Drifter]

It'll probably take some motivation to keep up at it though, heh, I actually don't even LIKE flight sims... lol. I'm doing it solely for learning purpose. If I wasn't trying to get a PPL I probably would never touch MSFS...
That's probably a good thing for a PPL! I think sims tend make make the learning process for a PPL too anal. It is pretty straight forward stuff, it just takes time to consolidate the knowledge and integrate the responses and sims don't help as they don't recreate the environment and so don't really induce the appropriate thoughts and reactions....IMHO :D

[mstram]

Kr7 :

>heh, I actually don't even LIKE flight sims... lol. I'm doing it solely for learning purpose. If I wasn't trying to get a PPL I probably would never touch MSFS...

Hmm. Have you taken an intro flight yet?

What is your motivation for getting a ppl? Is it primarily to enjoy flying, or do you plan to just use it for transportation?

The reason that I ask, is that I enjoy flight sims for many of the same reasons that I enjoy real flying.

#1 - flying is primarily a great mental exercise, requiring thinking skills that sometimes little margin for errors It's great practice to fly a x-ctry and exercise your navigation skills.

#2 - the view ! Being up in the air and moving is quite unnatural and is always a thrill for me. A sim is not the same thing of course, but the MSFS
scenery engine is so good that a few hours of "flying", through the rockies, or over the eiffel tower, or the Toronto skyline is great fun.

#3 - the flying - aside from an erobatic plane, I find that landing a real plane, controlling your flight path, airspeed, rate of descent, and flying to a rwy, flaring and touching down to be great fun. Part of the the thrill is controlling the machine, but the primary enjoyment comes from the control of *flight* itself. The sim is nowhere near as thrilling as the real thing, but I still find it great fun to do touch and go's with it.


Re: coments about trimming / not being able to experience trim :

My joystick has a spring that returns it to center. While not quite the same thing as the real control forces you experience in trimming, I find that the spring, in combination with observing the reaction of the aircraft/horizon to be a similar experience.

Kr, if you don't have a joystick or yoke then you will be missing a big part of the trimming experience for sure.

Mike

[Charley]

Hi KR7

I'd have to agree with Justiciar to a large extent. I'd be wary about the value of using a PC-based flight sim for learning to fly. For me, this seems to be the salient point here, perhaps one that may have been slightly missed by some contributors. If you already have flying experience and you wish to use flight sims to extend the fun then that is all well and good -- just as Justiciar said about instrument flying (a flight sim can be a good way to retain some level of currency on instrument flying). But I feel you're asking about the suitability of using MSFS (for example) as a learning tool and this is where things start to be subjected to personal opinions.

I'm aware that some FAA schools in the US actually give their students copies of MSFS when they start training. I'm aware that there are instructors who don't see the problem in using them. To counter this, I'd point out that these flying schools offer the software in conjunction with actual flight training which is undertaken concurrently, not 'instead of' or that occurs subsequent to the flightsimming.

All I'm offering is a personal opinion, and my opinion is that it probably isn't desirable to actually learn to fly using a computer. mstram makes some valid points about the enjoyment of flight sims but they would appear to me to be from the standpoint of somebody who already knows how to fly, rather than someone who learned on a PC and transferred those skills to the real environment.

As I see it, it's all about the management of expectations. If you learn how to do something within a set environement, you form expectations of how certain things will occur. When you come to exercise those skills in a different environment and you find that things don't occur as you expect them, it leads to a high mental workload while you 'unlearn' what you think you know and seek to adapt to the new situation. This applies to any kind of training, not just aviation.

As an aviation-related aside, this doesn't just apply to PC flight sims. I was recently talking to a guy who has just become a first officer on the ERJ. We were talking about his base-training and he commented on how strange it was at first. He then explained that it all stemmed from the fact that, in certain phases of flight, the simulator flies nothing like the real aircraft does. So he had to make an allowance for certain expectations that he'd formed not being matched by reality. He had, of course, been warned about these 'gotchas' at the start of his training, but even a professional, multi-million dollar synthetic training device can occasionally be unrepresentative of the real thing.

So, to finish my rather rambling introduction, I would say that if you could get some real flying done first, before using MSFS, then do so. It is much easier to say "that's not how it is in real life" when using the sim than it is to say "whoa, that's not what I was expecting" when sitting in the real thing. Failing that, take up gliding. It's largely the same except without the need for engine management :P and normally a lot cheaper. But.... if you can't get real flying time before using the PC to learn and you're adamant you want to go down that route, then be mindful of the pitfalls.

Now... I am no flying instructor. So my advice to you would be to try and seek a qualified one who also does a fair bit of PC simming and ask them to explain the things you might need to be mindful of. I think that'd be a useful exercise. However, I will throw in a couple of extra thoughts as examples, but these are all based on my observational opinions and you should seek the thoughts of Mr. or Mrs. Qualified Instructor.


Fly by reference to attitude, not instruments. A good way of doing this is to fly without the panel showing which, if I remember correctly, is done by pressing 'W' in MSFS (somebody will no doubt correct me if this is wrong). This will remove the panel and leave you with just the essential instruments along the bottom, and an unrestricted view of the outside. This still has its problems though, in that you then have an unrealistic level of visibility. One of the biggest problems with flight sims, in my opinion, is that you either see too much of the outside or not enough, at least when trying to fly by visual references. Flying visually is better done without the panel rather than with it, but without it you see 'too much' sometimes.

A consequent problem is that in the climb, or any other nose-high attitude, you will still see very little out of the front of the PC aircraft. In reality you would have the benefit of peripheral vision to either side of the nose to help maintain attitude. I find that one lacks peripheral vision on a PC. This leads nicely to...

...landing! You will be have no problems learning to fly a stable approach on a flight sim. But I'd recommend that you don't ever believe that landing any plane in MSFS will mean you'll be able to do so in real life. It just isn't the same. Again, due in large part to the lack of peripheral vision, which is essential in gauging the flare and round-out. Also, in reality you will experience ground-rush, where the world begins to accelerate past you as you approach the ground, and this can serve as a useful visual cue. Maybe it's just me, but whenever I've had a go on a PC flight sim, that feeling has never been authentically recreated.

Trimming. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with mstram here. Yes, trimming in FS is a similar experience, if you know what the differences are, but in terms of learning to trim it is nothing like good enough. Allow me to explain the differences. Your PC joystick or yoke will have a centrepoint in the pitch axis. If you move the stick forward of the centrepoint, the aircraft will pitch down. If you move the stick aft of the centrepoint, the aicraft will pitch up. Simple. The problem is that the centrepoint is fixed. If you let go of the yoke, it will always spring back to the centrepoint. You can always move the stick forward-of-centre by, for example, three inches and always aft-of-centre by three inches. The neutral point stays the same.

It's not like that in an aircraft. That neutrality -- that centrepoint -- actually moves according to the aerodynamic forces on the pitching control surfaces. When you trim, you are trimming off the forces required to hold the column in its new neutral position. So that when you let go, it stays there.. if you've done it right! ;) To use the same example as before, when trimmed for take off you might be able to move the yoke forward three inches and back three inches. However, once you've trimmed off the forces in the climb configuration, for example, you might find that you can move the yoke forward four inches, but only back two. The centrepoint has moved.

This is why I consider PC's and the real thing fundamentally different when it comes to trimming. The PC will not allow you to experience the control forces and, whatismore, it requires you to add or remove trim as you slowly move the control column back to the neutral position. This is simply not setting you a realistic expection of how to trim in reality as, in reality, you wouldn't move the yoke. This may seem like a tiny detail, but as trimming is such an important part of flying light aircraft this should demonstrate how doing your learning on a PC can set you up with misconceptions.

This takes us very nicely to 'feel'... a sense that you are robbed of with a PC. You can't feel anything. 'Feel' helps you to maintain a balanced turn. It helps you trim the aircraft. It helps you keep the wings level on a sunny day. It helps you during the stall. Without 'feel', you need to compensate with another sense and that is almost always the sense of sight. This over-use of vision can lead to problems when you come to fly for real. To maintain a balanced turn in an aircraft, you co-ordinate rudder and aileron. You can 'feel' this through your backside and stomach as you will be able to tell if you are slipping or skidding. Not so on a PC, which means you might need to check the balance ball on the T&S Indicator a lot more than you would do for real... maybe developing an over-reliance on instruments and a 'looking-in' mentality. When you trim the aircraft, one trims until one feels no forces on the control column. Not so on a PC. Which means that you are trimming 'visually', observing (as mstram said) whether the aircraft pitches due to insufficient trim. This visual check should be just that -- a secondary check that you have trimmed correctly. The primary sense should have been 'touch', a process which isn't replicated on the PC. When minor turbulence (or a thermal, on a sunny day) lifts a wing I would normally react to the 'feel' of this before I react the the fact that the nose is drifting away from the desired heading. Maybe this is down to my gliding experience as well, I don't know, but I feel (no pun intended) that on a PC you are robbed of an incredibly important sense.


So... some thoughts of my own. Not an exhaustive list, by any means, and perhaps not even correct - they are based on my experience and opinions only. Nevertheless, perhaps it serves to reinforce the opinion that learning to fly from scratch, on a PC, is not something to be done without consideration.

Take care
Charley

p.s. well done for reading my rambling comments, if you made it this far ;)

[Capt. Manuvar]

Charley,
Nice post.
If you use a joystick with a high spring force, fore and aft pitch forces can actually be reasonably simulated. You could go one step further and get one of the many "force feedback" controls, but i haven't tried them.
The problem with MSFS isn't with the program itself. it is that most people don't learn to fly using the right techniques. If someone taught him/herself to fly an aircraft (without killing himself) i wouldn't be suprised if he/she made the many mistakes that most 'desktop' pilots make.
I agree with your comments about maintaining climb attitude. My solution was to set a scattered cloud layer above me and to try to keep a cloud in a particular spot on the windshield (just like in the real thing), problem solved.
I think i'm going to start a pre-PPL flight sim course:8 . "save £1000s of your PPL":E . Its high time someone took a bit of business away from the old fashioned PPL training industry.
Capt. M

[grafity]

A slight bit off the topic, but I was thinking of buying flight sim 2004 but I don't want to pay 80 euro for it. Anyway I found it online a amazon.com for $28. With post for about $5 or $10. Can anyone forecast any problems with buying it from amazon. Is there any difference in the American product and the European (Irish) one.

[KR7]

hey mstram no I haven't taken intro flight. I think I want to do this mostly because I think it's a fun and useful skill to possess. no plan to use it for transportation right now since I don't think I'll be buying a plane anytime soon...

I do have a basic joystick, but I'm thinking of getting one with twist handle so I can do rudder control.



Charley thanks again for your post, the stuff you mentioned make a lot of sense, I'll have to save it and review it from time to time to remind myself of the things to watch out for.

I'll try to see if I can get some real flying time somehow, but as I mentioned I won't be able to actually start training until at least next summer due to travel.

good news is I don't really plan to spend that much time on the sim (probably no more than 40 hours flying) before real training. I'm not trying to learn to fly on it, just want to learn the controls, procedures, instruments, flying patterns, radio communication, navigating, etc. So I'll have a good idea about all the non-directly-manuver-related stuff and how they fit into flying, then I'd only need to mostly focus on manuvering the plane when I start training

I've just discovered FS2004 is actually pretty good about the peripheral vision thing. with the virtual cockpit you can pan anywhere you want and adjust exactly where you look, and how much panel you want to see just like turning your head.

I haven't found a way around the elevator trim yet, it's still pretty annoying. I'm hoping if I can find a auto-trim function I can just use that and ignore trimming for now (so that I don't build up bad habbit) and learn it when I have to do it in a real plane.

and I guess the same with the rudder... since I can't feel the plane maybe I should just leave auto-rudder on and ignore that aspect of flying for now? (again to avoid developing bad habbit). maybe I'll only use it when practicing sideslip and forward slip.


I've noticed with MSFS I seem to find it a lot more fun to crash the plane than to fly it properly... lol. everytime I switch to outside view I want to do some crazy flip or overspeed it into a tree or land the plane on water, etc. should that be disconcerning? lol


K.R.