Anyone seen stage 2 aptitude test add in todays Australian

[Barnawartha]

Wondering if anyone has seen this add or done this course. It sounds interesting maybe I'll wander down to Melbourne next week and take a look. Has anyone used the joystick tests that they have?

[newbe20]

saw it yes, but dont think i would bother with the joystick tests. i dont know if anyone has failed that yet? worry more about the cubes and maths...

[MoFo]

Perhaps if a certain airline stopped worrying about maths and cubes which are covered by your educational standards, and concentrated more on common sense, the ability to take in more than one source of information at once and then prioritise, they might find a larger percentage of commercial pilots were suited to their operation. The candidates may also be more suited to the job in hand rather than being academics.

There is a reason why back in the mists of time, circa W.W.1, when air force pilots were first needed they often were sourced from the ranks of horsemen, not academics.

[Mr. Hat]

Like the post Mofo

[ExcessData]

MoFo

I see the point you're trying to make, and I'm not having a go here, but how else is the airline concerned supposed to whittle the numbers down to a reasonable 'shortlist'? If cubes and maths are implicit in the educational pre-requisites, why do so many 'qualified' applicants fail them?

Whilst changing the process towards 'common sense'-based assessment would result in more commercial pilots being eligible for employment, isn't the whole point of any selection process to turn a large pool of applicants into a small number of 'ideal candidates' (and being approximately to the number of new pilots required by the airline at any one time)?

There is a reason why back in the mists of time, circa W.W.1, when air force pilots were first needed they often were sourced from the ranks of horsemen, not academics.

Was this not the same vintage of airmen that provided Exhibits A-Z in virtually every Human Factors/CRM textbook ever published?

Agree the selection system's not perfect, but how else could they do it and achieve an acceptable result?

ED

[griffinventure]

I just got an info sheet from them -you have to email [email protected] - Thanks to windy for putting up the email addy.

Looks intriguing but I'm not gonna be in melb next as i am presently about 4000 k to the NorthWest of there at the minute. I here it's kind of cold there at the minute anyway.

[griffinventure]

Have had couple of pms requesting info sheet they sent me so thought I would just post it here



Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your enquiry about Pilot Aptitude Training Systems and the courses we run . Pilot Aptitude Training Systems (or PATS) is a newly established company that is running courses specifically designed to train people to pass Stage two testing at Australia's flag carrier. We are confident of achieving this outcome.

There are two different products we offer . The first being a full day course where the following tests are covered ;

1. Verbal reasoning
2. Mathematical reasoning
3. Abstract reasoning( patterns/commands)
4. Spatial reasoning(cubes)
5. Instrument Interpretation(six instruments/verbal descriptions)
6. Aircraft Orientation(AH/DG/four aircraft)

The full day course runs from 8:30 AM until 5PM , and is a very intense program. It is intended to use a sample bank of 300 questions during the day . The more demanding tests such as mathematical and spatial reasoning will be done in the morning .

Some excellent graphics have been developed and the tests will be presented one after the other on a screen using Microsoft PowerPoint. Clients will be given training on the techniques ,shortcuts, and strategies to approach each test with before commencing that particular test. The tests will also be stopped at various points( 1/3 ,2/3rds) thru and all completed questions marked . Further feedback and briefings will be given at this point before completing the test. A general summary is then given at the end of each test.

More time will be spent on the tests that most people struggle with -mathematical and spatial reasoning. We have a database of 75 cube questions that will be given on the day. All questions have been designed to replicate extremely closely the tests questions you will do at an actual stage 2 ,and we are confident that we have done this.

The failure rates for stage 2 have always been very high - even for experienced airline pilots . This program will give you a significant competitive edge.

You will typically find that after doing 30 to 40 questions, and getting continual feedback that you will have most of these tests "worked out" .However any areas that you need to work on and do some practise will be isolated very quickly. Sitting these types of tests under time pressure with other people around you is also invaluable. At the end of the day you will be given a final briefing on exam technique, how to practise at home, and how to manage the day when you get to do Stage 2.

The second product we offer are two joystick/dot computer tests they being

7 Control velocity test(cursor/falling dots /joystick)
8 Cross hair/dot test(keep dot in cross hair using joystick/rudder pedals)

These mirror very closely the two computer games tests that you have to sit at an actual stage two . The graphics we have are very good and you get continual feedback on your performance. This is offered separately to the one day course as it is not practical to have people continually leaving the room during a one day course.

Our courses will be initially run in Melbourne but we intend to soon send instructors to the interstate capitals . So we ask that you send us another email to advise us where you live and we will notify you when we are running a program in your area. The cost of our full day course is $250(incl GST) ,this price is an introductory offer that will be availiable for a limited time only.

If you are serious about putting in your best performance when you have to start your preparation well in advance. You should do this course ASAP because you do not control when you get called up to do stage two, and you have to allow time to improve any weak areas. These tests do bite and that is why failure rates that are typically between 70 and 90%. Most people will find out that there are areas they have to put work into.

We will be running a free seminar at the RVAC reception centre(next to RVAC bar) Moorabbin Airport at 7:45PM on July 28th,29th ,and August 4th. The seminar will go for about 45 minutes and drinks are available before and after , dinner is also available from 6:30PM on the Thursday night seminar (July 29th).

Our first full day courses will be on August 7th and August 8th at RVAC - lecture room -Moorabbin Airport. We will be accepting deposits for these initial courses at the seminar nights. At the seminar we will give you much more detailed information and show you samples from each test.

If you intend attending one of the three seminar nights we would greatly appreciate it if you could email us which of the three dates you intend coming along .

Thank you for enquiry ,and we hope this information has been helpful.

PATS

NB: Please do not forget to send us an email advising us where you live if you are from outside Melbourne.

[Capt. J]

Any idea whether there are any similar courses in Sydney? Thanks.

[Binoculars]

The failure rates for stage 2 have always been very high - even for experienced airline pilots

Out of my depth here admittedly, but this quote suggests that MoFo and Mr Hat have it about right. That said, Bendigo is dead right too in his/her response.

Welcome to the Brave New World!

[Go Sainters]

Capt J,

From flyer handed out the other night. Course dates

Melbourne August 7th, 8th,14th , 15th.

Sunshine Coast August 21st

Sydney October 23rd ,24th

[Capt. J]

Thanks Go Sainters :ok: Greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Capt. J

[shnev]

Hi,
Can someone tell me why the PATS coordinators suggest you do their course at least a few weeks before you sit the actual QF tests? Do they give you some material or suggestions how to best prepare after you finish their course in the weeks leading up to the real test? Thanks, sh.

[Pelican Brief]

Would have to agree with the comments above . The program was on the money and frankly I would not have passed if I had not done it . I was weak in maths but got it sorted .:ok:

Also Thanks to those who pm'd me tips and encouragement.

[EngineOut]

I noticed there was a course for SY in October.

Not knowing when i am going to get the call to do Stage 2, would it be okay to do 6 months before? Do they give you enough material to practice on in your own time that long after doing the course? Or would it be useless that far ahead?

[handrail]

Hey all
I have got stage 2 coming up in about 2 weeks but am not able to attend a pats course because of my current location. Just wondering if anyone (especially if you have done the course) could pm me some tips and hints on stage 2.
cheers
rail :ok:

[Barnawartha]

Just received an email ,for those who maybe interested thought I would put it up.

Courses over next few weeks are

Sydney September 11th
Melbourne September 12th
Perth September 18th or 19th