Reading between the lines.... Typhoon Tranche 3 a goner?

[Jackonicko]

Though the Review contains no explicit references to the number of Eurofighter Typhoons required, its appendices do indicate that 20 air defence aircraft and 64 deployable offensive support aircraft are required to support the review’s planning assumptions. This obviously includes Tornado GR.Mk 4s (which will remain in service until replaced by the Future Offensive Aircraft in 2018), Harrier GR.Mk 7s and 9s (which will be replaced by the Future Combat Aircraft – JSF from 2013) and Eurofighter Typhoons.

Simple question, really. How many Typhoons do you need in order to meet this requirement?

Britain’s planned buy of 232 Typhoon aircraft was intended to support an available force of 137 aircraft, including aircraft for training, but excluding aircraft in maintenance or in storage.

(“the 232 aircraft being procured will support an active RAF fleet of 137 Eurofighters. These may become known as Typhoons in RAF service, as they already are on the export market, though this has yet to be confirmed officially. The 137 active aircraft will equip seven front-line squadrons (15 aircraft each, plus four in the Falklands), an Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) with 24 aircraft, and an Operational Evaluation Unit (4 aircraft). These units will share nine further aircraft which will be categorised as in-use reserves (one per squadron and two with the OCU). The remaining 84 aircraft will be rotated in and out of service, covering attrition and spreading flying hours to enable the aircraft to reach its scheduled out-of-service date.”)

This would seem to be far higher than the number required to meet these planning assumptions.

If you need 232 aircraft to guarantee 137, then it follows that Tranche 1 and Tranche 2 together (143 aircraft) would guarantee 84 Typhoons.

With Harrier/JSF and Tornado/FOAS this would surely more than sustain the review’s required total of 84 deployable fast jets ‘at readiness’?

In fact, it looks as though they wouldn’t need JSF either.....?

Added:
Moreover, the equivalent SDR figures were 87 AD aircraft and 154 OS aircraft.

Or have I missed something?

[ORAC]

Or you only need Tranche 1 for AD plus JSF - and you don't need Tranche 2 or 3 at all.

Which might explain the need to sell the Tranche 2 places and the (un)subtle hints about cancellation penalties from the other partners.

As for Tranche 3.........

[Archimedes]

Or, given that the paper (para 2.19) says:

'Our future combat air power will be built around multi-role Typhoon and Joint Combat aircraft able to deliver the offensive air and air defence capabilities currently delivered by single role aircraft. As we make the transition to a force structured based on these types....'

It could be that the Tranches 2 and 3 are aimed at replacing the GR 4 force...

If that were done, the presence of reasonably shiny and new Typhoons along with shiny new JSFs might be argued to obviate the need for FOAS.

The paper is also curiously vague about the carrier air wing(s). Will they have their own air wing, or is the intent to use CV(F) as a floating airfield from which JSF units will operate on as 'as required' basis? If the latter, then all that'd be required is a small JSF force from the FAA as a permanent presence on the carrier for AD purposes (say two 10-aircraft squadrons, one for each carrier), bolstered by RAF units that join the ship for fighting.

Now, couple the projected JSF buy with the 137 active Typhoons; subtract the two OCUs, Falklands AD flight, aircraft in units that are training, preparing to deploy on roulement, plus OEU) and you end up with enough aircraft to replace the GR 4, possibly earlier than intended - and a manned FOAS definitely isn't needed, since between them Typhoon and JSF do everything...

I suspect that ORAC's supposition is more likely than mine, and JN's is perhaps more likely than that (I can't see wholesale cancellation of the two Tranches because of the vast cost in penalty clauses, etc, etc) - but...

[Jackonicko]

Archimedes. Your suggestion is too sensible by far.

The other option would be a full Typhoon buy and NOTHING else. No FOAS (do that with Typhoon T3 with conformals, etc.) no JCA (do that with a Marinised Typhoon)..........

[pr00ne]

Does anyone have any idea of what the Typhoon force will be? Is it going to be 5 Squadrons and an OCU?

[John Farley]

I quote from this fairly short thread

The 137 active aircraft will equip seven front-line squadrons (15 aircraft each, plus four in the Falklands), an Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) with 24 aircraft, and an Operational Evaluation Unit (4 aircraft)

prOOne - how do you take your coffee?

[Jackonicko]

The "appendices do indicate that 20 air defence aircraft and 64 deployable offensive support aircraft are required to support the review’s planning assumptions."

What's the current required fleet figure?

Someone must know....

[pr00ne]

JF,

Well aware of what the situation was BEFORE yesterdays announcement. If 4 squadrons HAVE been cut from the force structure then that little paragraph you quote is now out of date and no longer applies.

With the announcement that Leeming will cease to be a fast jet base in 2008 the other aspect of the info you quote, "3 squadrons to Leuchers, 2 to Coningsby and 2 to Leeming" is also now equally out of date.

White no sugar thanks.

[Trumpet_trousers]

....slightly off topic, but will the Typhoon Sqns be multi role, as the ac is meant to be, or will each sqn specialise in either AD or MM?
Are the ac gizmos up to the swing role, or will each frame/sqn be optimised for a particular role?

[ORAC]

Original plan was for 4 AD sqns, 2 swing sqns and one OS sqn with the swing/OS sqns coming from tranches 2 and 3.

[RonRandom]

Seems like the current trend is towards almost exclusively multi/swing role squadrons. As long as sensor data fusion works. Or, we could buy a bunch of F18e/f models, which can haul all the iron you want, land back on the carrier WITH any excess ordnance, operate equally well from land even if it's hot - but don't have LO. Which, OF COURSE, any JSFs the americans sell us will have.......

No need for mixed fleets OR Leeming then....

[John Farley]

prOOne,

Very well done young man.

I was just checking....

I guess I had better refill the kettle.