Article "Terror In The Skies - Again?"

[ONTPax]

A VERY interesting article appears at the following URL.

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/article_landing.aspx?titleid=1&articleid=711

Some excerpts from the article:

Finally, the captain announced that the plane was cleared for landing. It had been four hours since we left Detroit. The fasten seat belt light came on and I could see downtown Los Angeles. The flight attendants made one final sweep of the cabin and strapped themselves in for landing. I began to relax. Home was in sight.

Suddenly, seven of the men stood up -- in unison -- and walked to the front and back lavatories. One by one, they went into the two lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the lavatory to become available. The men spoke in Arabic among themselves and to the man in the yellow shirt sitting nearby. One of the men took his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone. Again, no one approached the men. Not one of the flight attendants asked them to sit down. I watched as the man in the yellow shirt, still in his seat, reached inside his shirt and pulled out a small red book. He read a few pages, then put the book back inside his shirt. He pulled the book out again, read a page or two more, and put it back. He continued to do this several more times. . . The last man came out of the bathroom, and as he passed the man in the yellow shirt he ran his forefinger across his neck and mouthed the word "No."

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I don't care whether you're Arabic, African, European, Black, Hispanic or pink-purple-polka-dotted, the behavior of these Middle Eastern Syrians was inexcusable, pure and simple. I know the political correctness police / apologists will try and say that a language barrier probably left them clueless as to when they were supposed to remain seated. Hmmmm...maybe that's why airplanes are equipped with those international picture signs featuring the red slash, that transcends language barriers and furnishes people with an idea of what's expected of them.

All the other passengers managed to comprehend the crew member instructions and signage of having their seatbelts on, their seat back in the upright position and their tray table stowed in preparation for landing. We've all been through this routine, countless times. Even Middle Easterners and Syrians have been through this routine and know what's expected of them.

Or does a separate set of rules and regulations apply to Middle Easterners and Syrians, merely because they're clueless so often?

ONTPax :mad:

[kansasw]

Discussion is already underway in Passengers and SLF Forum under the thread "Another 9/11?" Moderators will probly shift your post to there.

Apparently you believe everything you read, I mean, you appear to uncritically accept the report and then make your own comments based on the allegations therein.

Personally I think it is a cleverly composed account written by a person with an agenda, published by a venue with an agenda, and rings to me like writing swollen with agenda-serving distortions....which may sadly feel quite accurate to the reporter, but that is her problem don't let it be yours. Develop your critical eye.

I quote barry60's post in the Pass/SLF thread as best representative of my view: "The article is from an extremely alarmist paper. Absolute rubbish."

[ONTPax]

In a post dated 21st July 2004 16:56, kansasw wrote:

Personally I think it is a cleverly composed account written by a person with an agenda, published by a venue with an agenda, and rings to me like writing swollen with agenda-serving distortions....which may sadly feel quite accurate to the reporter, but that is her problem don't let it be yours. Develop your critical eye.

I quote barry60's post in the Pass/SLF thread as best representative of my view: "The article is from an extremely alarmist paper. Absolute rubbish."

So, in the opinion of you and barry60, absolutely nothing happened?

It's all fabricated?

You guys must be guided by that saying, "Don't believe anything you hear or read, and only believe half of what you see."

Perhaps you two would hold a different viewpoint had you been on the flight. Or you could have countered the version of events as expressed by the author of the piece.

ONTPax

[HotDog]

OPNTPax, so if you are convinced the article had merit, why weren't the Syrians arrested on arrival at LAX? I guess you believe in the chemtrail conspiracy as well.:rolleyes:

[ONTPax]

In a post dated 22nd July 2004 08:19, The Reverend wrote:

OPNTPax, so if you are convinced the article had merit, why weren't the Syrians arrested on arrival at LAX?

That's a good question. Maybe, one day, when enough ink and angst is shed over this story, the flight attendants will have an opportunity to give their version of what happened.

Here's another possibility:

I, personally, have run across law enforcement personnel who have refused to cite or arrest people merely because they weren't there to witness the alleged crime. Blame it on lawsuits and litigious societies. Like everyone else, police don't "want to get involved" if they can avoid it. Too much hassle. I'm sure there are members of the police force who are there mainly to collect a paycheck and count the days to their retirement.

I dunno. I'm not saying that everything went down exactly as the author of the piece said it did.

However, it would probably be incorrect to conclude, as some have, that nothing happened. The truth probably falls somewhere in between.

Apparently, people were field interviewed for hours over this thing by the authorities. If the Syrians had remained seated during those portions of the flight when they were supposed to remain seated, I would think there would have been much less "cannon fodder" to fuel the concerns of the story's author and other passengers.

I guess you believe in the chemtrail conspiracy as well.

Maybe not that, but I CAN tell you that I don't believe the findings of the Warren Report.

ONTPax

[etrang]

Kansasw,

I'm not sure why you and others call it "absolute rubbish".

Several journalists have followed up on the story. They all seem to agree on the basic facts:

1) a group of 14 arab men were traveling together on the flight.
2) on the flight they behaved in a suspicious manner.
3) FBI, LA police and other security services met the plane on arrival and interviewed the men.

Presumably because they were informed by the captain of the flight which indicates that cabin crew and the captain thought the behaviour was suspicious enough to warrant investigation.

4) the men were subsequently allowed to continue their journey.

So it seems likely the 14 Syrians are completely innocent.

The article is written in a sensationalist style but it is certainly not "complete rubbish".

[ONTPax]

Here's some more "absolute rubbish".

Obviously, the author of this story, Audrey Hudson, is equally as paranoid and alarmist as Annie Jacobsen.

Forget terrorists. The real villains are people who voice concern.

ONTPax

**************************

Scouting jetliners for new attacks

By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Flight crews and air marshals say Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for a terrorist attack.

At least two midflight incidents have involved numerous men of Middle Eastern descent behaving in what one pilot called "stereotypical" behavior of an organized attempt to attack a plane.

"No doubt these are dry runs for a terrorist attack," an air marshal said.

Pilots and air marshals who asked to remain anonymous told The Washington Times that surveillance by terrorists is rampant, using different probing methods.

"It's happening, and it's a sad state of affairs," a pilot said.

A June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.

The Northwest flight involved 14 Syrian men and the American Airlines flight involved six men of Middle Eastern descent.

"I've never been in a situation where I have felt that afraid," said Annie Jacobsen, a business and finance feature writer for the online magazine Women's Wall Street who was aboard the Northwest flight.

The men were seated throughout the plane pretending to be strangers. Once airborne, they began congregating in groups of two or three, stood nearly the entire flight, and consecutively filed in and out of bathrooms at different intervals, raising concern among passengers and flight attendants, Mrs. Jacobsen said.

One man took a McDonald's bag into the bathroom, then passed it off to another passenger upon returning to his seat. When the pilot announced the plane was cleared for landing and to fasten seat belts, seven men jumped up in unison and went to different bathrooms.

Her account was confirmed by David Adams, spokesman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS), who said officers were on board and checked the bathrooms several times during the flight, but nothing was found.

"The FAMS never broke their cover, but monitored" the activity, Mr. Adams said. "Given the facts, they had no legal basis to take an enforcement action. But there was enough of a suspicious nature for the FAMS, passengers and crew to take notice."

A January FBI memo says suicide terrorists are plotting to hijack trans-Atlantic planes by smuggling "ready-to-build" bomb kits past airport security, and later assembling the explosives in aircraft bathrooms.

On many overseas flights, airlines have issued rules prohibiting loitering near the lavatory.

"After seeing 14 Middle Eastern men board separately (six together and eight individually) and then act as a group, watching their unusual glances, observing their bizarre bathroom activities, watching them congregate in small groups, knowing that the flight attendants and the pilots were seriously concerned and now knowing that federal air marshals were on board, I was officially terrified," Mrs. Jacobsen said.

"One by one, they went into the two lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the lavatory to become available. The men spoke in Arabic among themselves ... one of the men took his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone. Again, no one approached the men. Not one of the flight attendants asked them to sit down."

In an interview yesterday with The Washington Times, Mrs. Jacobsen said she was surprised to learn afterward that flight attendants are not trained to handle terrorist attacks or the situation that happened on her flight.

"I absolutely empathize with the flight attendants. They are acting with no clear protocol," she said.

Other passengers were distraught and one woman was even crying as the events unfolded.

The plane was met by officials from the FBI, Los Angeles Police Department, Federal Air Marshal Service and Transportation Security Administration. The Syrians, who were traveling on one-way tickets, were taken into custody.

The men, who were not on terrorist watch lists, were released, although their information and fingerprints were added to a database. The group had been hired as musicians to play at a casino, and the booking, hotel accommodations and return flight to New York from Long Beach, Calif., also checked out, Mr. Adams said.

"We don't know if it was a dry run, that's why we are working together with intelligence and investigative agencies to help protect the homeland," he said.

Mrs. Jacobsen, however, is skeptical the 14 passengers were innocent musicians.

"If 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?" she asked in the article.

The pilot confirmed Mrs. Jacobsen's experience was "terribly alike" what flight attendants reported on the San Juan flight.

He said there is "widespread knowledge" among crew members these probes are taking place.

A Middle Eastern passenger attempted to videotape out the window as the plane taxied on takeoff and, when told by a flight attendant it was not permitted, "gave her a mean look and stopped taping," said a written report of the San Juan incident by a flight attendant.

The group of six men sat near one another, pretended to be strangers, but after careful observation from flight attendants, it was apparent "all six knew each other," the report said.

"They were very careful when we were in their area to seem separate and pretended to be sleeping, but when we were out of the twilight area, they were watching and communicating," the report said.

The men made several trips to the bathroom and congregated in that area, and were told at least twice by a flight attendant to return to their seats. The suspicious behavior was relayed to airline officials in midflight and additional background checks were conducted.

A second pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.

The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.

The second pilot said terrorists are "absolutely" testing security.

"There is a great degree of concern in the airline industry that not only are these dry runs for a terrorist attack, but that there is absolutely no defense capabilities on a vast majority of airlines," the second pilot said.

Dawn Deeks, spokeswoman for the Association of Flight Attendants, said there is no "central clearinghouse" for them to learn of suspicious incidents, and flight crews are not told how issues are resolved.

She said a flight attendant reported that a passenger was using a telephoto lens to take sequential photos of the cockpit door.

The passenger was stopped, and the incident, which happened two months ago, was reported to officials. But when the attendant checked back last week on the outcome, she was told her report had been lost.

Recent incidents at the Minneapolis-St. Paul international airport have also alarmed flight crews. Earlier this month, a passenger from Syria was taken into custody while carrying anti-American materials and a note suggesting he intended to commit a public suicide.

A third pilot reported watching a man of Middle Eastern descent at the same airport using binoculars to get airplane tail numbers and writing the numbers in a notebook to correspond with flight numbers.

"It's a probe. They are probing us," said a second air marshal, who confirmed that Middle Eastern men try to flush out marshals by rushing the cockpit and stopping suddenly.

[nosefirsteverytime]

Alright. I've read the above, and I can come up with four possible conclusions:

1: it's exactly as the article says, they are probing for the real thing.
2: It's a resource diversion exercise. (more later)
3: They are doing it to give everyone the heeby-jeebies
4: It's complete bull.

1: if they are doing the real thing this way, they don't have a chance of success. alright, pre-911, if an Arab came to a flight school and asked to learn how to fly, then only took an interest in turns, you'd find him weird, but you wouldn't think of him as a terrorist. Nowadays, dry runs like these would just prick everyone's ears up, and that's not what they'd want.

2: More likely, if they are terrorist linked, they want the security to be tightened up and resources diverted as their "attack", inconveniencing the great yankee pig-dogs by making them jumpy.

3: they could be just a bunch of students/bums/whatever, who hate America and think it's a great joke to scare those christian/white/western/american/whatever infidel by pretending to be sinister terrorists.

4: Someone doesn't like Arabs.

I don't think it's 1, 2 sounds as bad as it gets but is not beyond the realms of possibility, however I'd put money on either 3 or 4, depending on the author's track record.

[FakePilot]

I think the way the article said "Middle Eastern Men" points it out. And hey, if my ethnic version was being singled out like that, I'd start messing with people too. But I'm going to medical school first, so I can pose as a doctor.

On, second thought, I wish I hadn't responded to such a stupid article.