Farnborough 2004

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

As usual, my wife and I have spent several afternoons this week at a convenient spot just north of Farnborough watching the display (as a retired ATCO I can't afford to pay to get in!).

Isn't the "show" just a shadow of it's former glory? (And the B52 cock-up yesterday didn't help!).

I wonder how many readers go back to the "good old days" of Farnborough? My first one was in 1958 and I have plenty of memories of very fast jets hurtling down the runway at just a few feet above the ground, whereas nowadays most of the particpants are so high they're almost contrailing. I recall 22 Hunters being looped... A Victor being rolled plus hot little jets like Fairey Delta 2 really moving about fast.. Javelin, Lighning, Scimtar, Buccaneer... Britannia, Viscount and Vanguard..... And where are all the aerobatic teams? The RN had a great team of Seahawks and there were several RAF teams plus the inevitable Army helicopters. This year.... nothing! As for that Typhoon thing - it looks like a mini-Airfix kit out of a cornflake box and not a patch on the two Yanks - F18 and F16. We even have to rely on the Italians to show us a Tornado!!

The commentary is fun, eh? Nobody, but nobody will ever replace Major Oliver Stewart - THE best Farnborough commentator of all time....

I guess it's just old age on my part and the youngsters think it's fantastic? Problem is, I still remember when the UK had an aircraft industry...

[Harrier46]

Apart from lack of aircraft (particularly British, we are now largely a component maker) the actual flying display has been reduced to a mere two hours and is a shadow of what it once was. I blame the increasing regulations which means the display line (and all displays now suffer in the same way) is too far removed from the public and height restrictions also contribute to a less than spectacular event. If the aircraft are not brought back in view of the spectators air show attendances will drop off further (see RIAT thread) and the shows will die. Only the hardened enthusiasts will bother but they are not sufficient to make the shows economical.
Both Farnborough and RIAT need reinvigorating to attract the public back

[norodnik]

Heathrow Director,

couldn't agree more. I spent the first 20 years of my life living on the corner of Alexandra and Albert Road which is roughly 1 mile from 25 (as it was then) on the centre line.

Farnborough was 2 weeks of complete chaos, what with the roads, the build up and down. I loved every minute of it and there was always plenty to see.

I went to the last Farnborough with my 2 kids and the display was pretty awful, a lot of things flying twice just to make a reasonable display length.

I was going to take them this Sunday, but seeing the display I don't think I will bother, and I'm not going to pay £40 just to see a lame display.

I suppose others will say its a business event now and there isn't the money. This is probably true and its sad to say that this Farnborough (and possibly the next) will be the last ones the public can/will want to attend.

BTW, I was on a train between North Camp and Ash and saw a b52 (on Monday) doing a long looping turn downwind to fly back over the airfield. What was the cock-up ? and will the B52 be flying every day ?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<BTW, I was on a train between North Camp and Ash and saw a b52 (on Monday) doing a long looping turn downwind to fly back over the airfield. What was the cock-up ? and will the B52 be flying every day ?>>

On Monday the B52 did a fly-past down the runway. Yesterday it kinda missed and I think anyone at Blackbushe might have had quite a shock! The daily flying display list on the Internet suggests the B52 won't be there today, but the F117 and B1B will.

[Dave Gittins]

It is sad how what used to be a proud showing of the best of British and the rest of the World's aircraft has degenerated into the miserable display I saw a couple of years ago, which left me about £25.00 poorer with no enthausiasm for another visit.

When I think back over the years at the sight's I have seen (and these are just the instant memories). Roly Falk rolling a Vulcan was a little before my time but I remember Vulcan XA903 testing the Olympus 593 for the Concorde wonder plane that hadn't yet flown.

Bill Loverseed spreading his Buffalo over the runway (fortunately only pride and the Buffalo were hurt), Gordon Corps doing the slowest ever max rate pullup in the A310 proof of concept demonstrator for FBW - we thought it was going to fall out of the sky.

The fabulous moment when an F-16 pulled up from takeoff into a loop and as he reached inverted just brushing the clouds, the controller requsted :- "Uh F-16 report height of cloudbase please" and a very strained voice said "its uh one eight uh zero uh zero feet sir."

Seeing Mriya for the first time - parked next to DH Comet G-ACSS - and the tail slides by the MiG 29 and Su-27 and an "off the runway and half on the grass" landing by (I think) an AN-22.

The little display last time with a few tired aeroplanes of no particular significance flying twice to make up the time isn't going to get me back in a hurry.

All Farnborough means to me now is having to depart Fairoaks via Ockham for a couple of weeks.

:{

[Mark Lewis]

Half the static exhibits have left or are in the process of leaving now too, I'm not sure whats going to be left by tomorrow morning! :(

[PPRuNe Pop]

Probably time to call it a day at Farnboro in my view. The cost for the manufacturers to take space on the airfield is stupidly astronomic and I recall the Shorts CEO saying a few years back "we cannot afford Farnboro anymore but, we cannot afford NOT to be here!"

I would give F'boro another 10 years and it will be gone, and Le Bourget will be the annual venue.

[mutt]

Can anyone confirm that exhibitors had to pay for tickets even if they werent used? A number of our vendors were extremely keen to make sure that the tickets were going to be used.


Mutt.

[nosefirsteverytime]

Oh great. I was getting all excited over going to talk to some aviation know alls, and now, reading this, it looks like I've paid E120 on flights to LHW for a bum deal. Thank God, being Irish, I've never seen anything better and Farnborough isn't all I'll be looking into on the weekend. Is there anyone out there who will be there on Sunday? I'm flying in on Saturday morning, would I be better off going straight from there? And is it worth it for an engineering student to bring CVs?

[MarchRide]

Can anyone post a link to the scheduled flying displays for the weekend. Had a look on the official site but it appears that they don't publish the days flying activity until the night before, unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Thanks.:ok:

[folkyphil]

HD...I have similar recollections re: "The good 'ol' days".
My family took me as a child onto Caesar's Camp (...the ridge about 2 miles to the south of the airfield) from the early 1950s.
I am told that I saw the Princess flying boat (though I can't recall it personally). I do remember most of the other items which you mention...also the Leonides-powered Herald.
I started "spotting" in 1962 and "Airshow fortnight" (...that included the practicing and departures) was the highlight of each year.
Apparently few constraints regarding high speed manoevres to the south and west of the airfield, and lots of air-to-air photos being taken, with Shackleton and Hastings cameraships, if I remember correctly.
1966 was a particularly good year; I would cycle from Farnham to Odiham, then to Blackbushe and back home via Farnboro'.
Odiham had mil visitors galore; we would congregate at the southern gate, from where we would be escorted to take photos of the visiting aircraft....Flamants,, Valettas, Ansons, DC6s to mention but a few! HAPPY DAYS!
I think '66 was the year of the mass "attack" on Farnboro with Buccaneer, Sea Vixen, Scimitar, Argosy and Wessex formations sweeping-in from the Odiham direction.
From the early '70s I was working at LATCC, so had a good insight as to what was happening, and when....
Northside of Farnboro'...near where the golf course is now (or has that been built-on as well?)..there was a little field in which one could park for £1.
I recall a Gnat(?) parting the upper branches of a tall oak tree at the end of a Red Arrows bomb-burst...thought my old Morris Minor was a'gonna for a few seconds!
The "year of the Buffalo" found me invited to a hospitality chalet for a brandy breakfast; ended-up sitting alongside a certain Mr.B.Trubshaw. Can't remember much about the flying display!
And so to 2004....
The B1B apart, I have not noticed anything other than the usual stream of bizjets in and out....until Wed afternoon,that is. The B52 wandered over Farnham then back towards Lasham. Perhaps rumours that the Fleet and Church Crookham Militia has been issued with new catapult elastic have filtered back to the Pentagon!
With fine wx forecast for the weekend, I expect to watch Sunday's display from my usual vantage point...but I'll probably take a good book along as well.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hi folkyphil. I just love your banter, as they say! Don't you reckon our generation saw the best years of aviation?

Nobody has mentioned Ranald Porteus and the Auster... something different without a doubt!

And Odiham stuff.... Oh yes.. During one of my very early visits a Portuguese Air Force Harpoon flew very very low over Farnborough en route for Odiham... I shall remember that sight until my dying day.. And as a Heathrow ATCO who copped the SVFR position during one Farnborough... around 5.15pm the Farnborough line rang and an extremely terrified voice, 8 octaves above normal, screamed "They're coming". He just meant the helicopters heading for Battersea and a dozen other places around Heathrow! Jeez.... they were the days.

[BRL]

Just out of curiosity, do the guys doing the(flying) display use the same frequencies as everyone else? example:134.35, 125.25 etc or do they have a seperate one just for the displays if you know what I mean?

[Thunderball 2]

Of course Farnborough's not even a pale shadow of what it used to be, and deeply depressing to reflect on the fact that few of the British aircraft that used to be there ever made any money anyway. A grand illusion really, but a lot of fun in the process.

But what on earth is going to happen on the public days, assuming that they intend to search everyone? If it's necessary on the trade days it's necessary on the public days, but how is anyone going to get in in less than 4 hours?

[norodnik]

It seems that the Farnborough Airshow noise will always haunt me.

I live in Hindhead and mid afternoon there was a temendous noise which signalled 5 Red Arrows passing directly over my house at what must have been around 250 feet. About 5 seconds later 2 others flew over, followed by the final 2.

The front 5 were moving reasonably fast but not nearly as fast or noisey as the remaining 2 sets which were obviously in catch up mode.

I bet it woke a few of the old dears up around here and no doubt complaints will follow.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

BRL.. The frequencies in use during "Farnborough Week" are promulgated in the public domain but the Tower uses a discrete "Display" frequency in lieu of the usual one during the actual flying display.

Looks like today (Friday) the show should be much better than the previous few days..

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

For the third time this week my wife and I watched the Farnborough show from our favourite little spot just north of the airfield.

In our opinion the show-stealer was the SAA B747-400. An absolutely brilliant flying display which had us standing and cheering (and me almost crying!).... and the climb to FL100 over the field at the end was amazing.

Many congrats to the guys up front..... you did an old controller a power of good.

[Notso Fantastic]

What did he do?

[redsnail]

Actually found and flew passed Farnborough? :D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Well, he made the A340 display look pretty tame that's for sure... and he must have made 4-5 passes and carried out a spectacular climb. In an air show which needed several displays by Spitfires to fill out the time this was something special. Don't misunderstand, I like Spitfires - in moderation. Today there are going to be THREE Spitfire displays (yawwnnn). I'll probably go back for the 747 though...

[Wycombe]

...yep, I saw the Springbok spiralling skywards from over at Blackbushe, v. impressive :cool:

No, I wasn't waiting for the B52!

[enzo_04]

I went to the public saturday show and found it very entertaining, it was the first big airshow ive been too so i have no comparison to the "good old days". There where continuous displays for at least 4 hours. The modern fighter jets where very impressive and loud and i dont really care if they're not all british!
I found the old piston aircraft to be quite boring in comparison, and they did fill time because they where soo slow! but this is when you take the opportunity to join the mile long que for a drink!
I looked at the hall exhibitor stands but apart from looking at the turbofan engines (one was 112" diameter) and a few other interesting stands it was very much a business thing. I would have like to have talked to some companies regarding careers as i've just finish my Aerospace eng course at Farnborough, but not many representatives where there.
The only thing that was quite disappointing with the airshow was OTT commentary, that was also very loud and distorted, and difficult to make out whats being said especially with the SAA commentary and the accent, i didn't have a clue, i'd rather have just listen to the aircraft.
I'm now suffering from the consequnces of not using suncream, didn't seem that hot at the time!
Oh yeah, and the red arrows where amazing.

[Charley B]

Does anyone know if the weeks highlights will be shown on the TV?????
I would love to see the SAA 747 and others ,but especially the 747 as it is my favourite plane!

HD glad you both enjoyed the show!!!

Notso..........you are so lucky flying my favourite plane!

[Row 12F]

We went too, on Saturday. At £50 for two (I left the decision late based on the weather so forwent the £10 net booking discount) it was not very good value. As others have said, highish fly pasts, few planes, not much 'new'.

But the SAA B744 was superb. Many thanks to them and the pilot who must have been just inside his safe envelope for most of the time. If he reads this or any one knows, what weight was he flying at? It was amusing to think of what the passengers were saying as he corkscrewed from 1,000 ft to 10,000 ft (?) on full power inside a mile wide tube before setting off from the show. I expect that extra sick bags were issued.

(No, I didn't actualy think there were any public passengers!)

[folkyphil]

...watched the Saturday show from my usual spot on the high ground to the south of the field. It's NOT the same as being as being "inside the show", but gives a good overall view of proceedings.

The B1B and B52 were impressive because that's what they are....

Airbus "combine" performed their usual impressive routine.

STOL / Heli / Modern fighter / Trainer / "nostalgia pistons" went through their usual routines, sometimes for far too long....

The JP/Gnat/Hunter combine was superb, and nice to see the Tristar/VC10 combo....

What does that leave?....the SAA B747-400...!

...in my books the best display I've seen at the show for the last 20 years!

[Wycombe]

I believe Springbok became Cathay yesterday (Sun), was it just as good?

[Mark Lewis]

Cathay 744 was a late confirmation, and so did not have a chance to validate a display, and was only able to perform two passes, one slow, and one fast, before doing the corkscrew away towards Ockham.

[nosefirsteverytime]

well, i was there yesterday,and in fairness, the super hornet did it for me. unfortunately i didn't see the 747 display, as i had only just found the exebition halls (I didn't come all this way to look at pretty airplanes, i'll be a qualified tech in a year) A good line up, but a shame i couldn't enjoy it.

one MAJOR complaint, the exibition halls were v hard to find for a firs timer, being as they are the OTHER side of the PRIVATE stands. It took some hunting to find them, and I didn't get to speak to all the people i wanted.

Also, why did they announce the exibition halls open until 6? when I alked through, everyone was packing up! I wasseething at not being able to get afew more employment /undergrad /grad brochures. oh well, i'll hae to brush up n ma francaise en Paris pour l'annee next.

[surely not]

Thanks Folkyphil for answering a question I had. I was playing cricket at Middleton (near Bognor) on Saturday and watched the Tristar / VC10 combo flying up and down the coast, then watched as they came right over the cricket ground. Very unusual and a splendid sight. The tight formation they flew in was also impressive. What a shame the RAF haven't used this combo more often at Displays.

[BRL]

Thanks for your reply Heathrow Director. :)

Anyone have a video of the 747 spiraling.......?

[TwinAisle]

I used to be a Fboro regular. In my Airbus days, I was there every show. A major buzz, it felt like the centre of the whole damned industry. No public, just loads of professionals talking, doing deals....

This year - too many public - tix sold to them!????!. Major sense that the game was somewhere else.

Fboro is NOT an airshow. It is a business event. Lose sight of that and you get Fboro 2004.....

TA

[paulc]

Twinaisle,

what's wrong with the public? - I am sure the revenue earned on the public days would be missed so loose the public and risk loosing the event? Have any attendance figures been released yet as there seemed to be a lot of people there on the public weekend.

If there is no public access then how is the industry going to survive - the children of today that were collecting bagfulls of leaflets etc at the show are the engineers/technicians/investors of the future and by allowing them access, companies are making a potential long term investment in the industry. A piece of equipment or demonstration may catch the eye of a student who is unsure of a course of study. How many people that work in the aerospace industry were taken to a trade show as a youngster and had a 'seed of interest' planted.

If Farnborough was a 100% trade show then why have it on an airfield ? why not hire the NEC instead and forget any public flying displays although demo flights could be done using BHX.

Farnborough has to adapt to an ever changing world - there are far more trade shows now than in the past and it is loosing out to Paris, Berlin, Dubai.

I was there on the Sunday and had a great day

[JimmyTAP]

Fboro is NOT an airshow.

Interesting as Farnborough's own website calls it an "airshow".

As far as I know the "public" only got 1800 enthusiast tickets on the Friday. I am in the industry and couldn't get trade tickets for Monday through Thursday.
I thought the show was pretty good (apart from a large number of the static park leaving on Wednesday and Thursday) and a huge improvement on 2002.


JT

[max alt]

Thanks to rolls royce for paying for the kids.We went on sunday and all enjoyed it.
Well done to all the display pilots for some great routines.
I thought the F18 was awesome,I would like to see it head to head with the eurofighter,no clouds of course.To the pilot of the firefly,excellent crisp aerobatics,made me want to buy one.To the french guy on the Ariane space exibit that told off my 5 year old for touching the display model,get a life we paid in our tax pounds for the bloody thing.Its called PR mon amie!.
Cheers Max

[TwinAisle]

To clarify....

In the old days, Fboro was a trade show. For five days. Virtually everyone there was in the business, doing business, and the exhibitors acted accordingly. Saturday and Sunday were the public airshow - no problems with that, that lets, and I paraphrase paulc here - the children of today collect bagfulls of leaflets etc at the show.

The old model seemed to work just fine.

This time around - firstly, someone seems to have limited the number of trade tickets. JimmyTAP was one of hundreds, I would guess, who had a specific need to be there (I was going to talk about buying some aircraft) and had a hell of job getting in. Thursday was like a ghost town at the event. For the record, tickets were being sold on more than just Friday - a colleague of mine bought tix for Thursday at least.

The problem with letting the public in is that it detracts from the business element of the event. As I said, I got the impression that the focus of the industry had moved somewhere else for the duration. I was also told - by more than one exhibitor - that they were taking the show less seriously because of the public involvement on trade days. Why would you tie up senior personnel all week to advertise your products for sale to the public? I found that on Friday, many people that we were going to talk to had packed up and set off home for the weekend - the stands were still there, but the senior people - and hence the networking opportunities - had gone.

Why not go back to the old model - trade all week, and pretty strictly trade, then a seriously good airshow, open to all, at the weekend?

TA

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Twinaisle wrote: <<Fboro is NOT an airshow>> and he also wrote: <<The problem with letting the public in is that it detracts from the business element of the event.>>

So, why hold it at Farnborough and why have a flying display?

Why not hold it at NEC then you business guys would be able to work in peace without the distraction of the flying. After all, you don't need to see what a aeroplane looks like or behaves like. With modenr technology that can all be done on a PC!

You may not like the public but at the exhorbitant rates they charge for entry someone, somewhere is trousering a few quid over the odds.

[TwinAisle]

Two excellent questions, HD!

My guess is that aircraft people like being around airfields - just like the public - and Fboro is now a tradition - I am sure that the Proms would be better in a larger venue, but that's a tradition as well.

You misunderstand me - it is not that I do not like the public. It is just that I believe Fboro worked far better when you had days strictly for the trade to talk to the trade, and days for the public to enjoy the show as well. Mixing up the two, I believe, changes the nature of the show, and detracts from what it was originally supposed to be - a trade show.

If you want to see an amazing airshow - Fairford is a better bet imho.

TA

[paulc]

Twinaisle,

I was at Fairford on the Sunday and I have to say I thought the flying display was very average with a few pauses. Static areas had big gaps as a lot of aircraft (60+) failed to arrive for various reason yet a lot of the aircraft were parked very close together making photography a bit of a challenge.

This is the first year in a while that I had visited both - Fairford was much better in previous years but Farnborough was as good as previous visits.

[TwinAisle]

Yes, would certainly agree about the gaps in the Fairford flying this year - wasn't aware of any large gaps in the static display tho.

I guess you were at Fboro for the weekend. when I am told the flying display was good - during the week, I thought it was pretty tame (apart from the A340-600, but then I am ex-Airbus, and an unreconstructed fan!)

TA

[JimmyTAP]

JimmyTAP was one of hundreds, I would guess, who had a specific need to be there (I was going to talk about buying some aircraft) and had a hell of job getting in.

So everyone there on Monday to Thursday had a "specific need" I suppose there were no freebies, freelunches and everyone was there "doing business" - yeah right.:rolleyes:

No I had no specific need to be there on Friday but I thought I'd avoid the traffic and have a nice day with my father who has been going to Farnborough since 1954.
I had no problem getting on Friday (which until recently used to be a public day) and the weather was the best all week. Personally I've always gone on the Friday since 1978. Always been the best day.

Just remember that the public pay all of our wages - directly or indirectly.

JT

[TwinAisle]

Is everyone determined to misintepret my thoughts?

I am NOT anti public. I work in a senior position for an airline, and I am FULLY aware who pays the salary and fuel bills.

However - just because the public pay for our industry does not mean that we should invite them to everything - our board meetings and trade events being two of them to which we need some time to talk.

My point about specific need was related to the difficulties in getting tickets from the trade this year - a lot of business does get done over a lunch and a glass of plonk you know! I think a reread of my previous posts will elucidate....

TA

[primreamer]

Was at Farnborough on Sunday with wife and kids and had a good day out. The weather held up (just!) and for £25 each I think what was available for view was OK. Granted some of the exhibitors had been and gone and bits of the flying were disappointing (one pass by the B52, was it worth it?) but that was more than made up for by everything else. The USAF staff wanted to talk all day and were very patient with every question my son could throw at them and as said on other posts the F18 was excellent.
I don't think you can compare the shows of today and those of the fifties and sixties. Times (and financial constraints) have changed. We don't have an aviation industry that leads the world anymore and it is becoming more difficult, even every two years, to show new aircraft doing new things. Hopefully Farnborough as a show can survive and not disappear like so much of our aviation heritage.

[nosefirsteverytime]

oh thank God for normal keyboards!

That reminded me surely not, I was hoping to get a pic of that formation. That really was spectacular. And the guy who was at the Airbus stand, thanks for the T-shirt! :ok:

[JimmyTAP]

TA

My apologies if I have misunderstood your meaning. My understanding is to get in Monday to Thursday you needed trade tickets. If there were non-aerospace affiliated people there on those days then they must have got tickets from somewhere. Possibly from companies who are less scrupulous about who gets tickets.
I work for a large aerospace company and I couldn't get trade day tickets. What I could get was an enthusiast ticket for Friday only. I believe only 1800 were on offer.

Anyway I'm off to find a job selling aeroplanes so I can get a trade day ticket in 2006. :D

JT

[Mr @ Spotty M]

TwinAisle and Jimmy Tap.
As l understand it you can get in on the trade days by paying at the door.
I am told you only need company ID, however someone from work did go on the Tuesday, paid his money and in he went.
He did say however he was not asked for his ID.
Hope this helps?

[IRRenewal]

Allegedly taken at FB (not by me though)

http://www.irrenewal.com/images/ab.gif

[TwinAisle]

You gotta laugh at this..... you build the world's most advanced airliner, cover it with tarty slogans, and then get the grammar wrong, leave the door open and make a laffing stock of yourself....

I was always taught FURTHER... not FARTHER...

TA

[SilentHandover]

You're a couple of years late with that one, it was from 2002 or possibly even 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Certainly not the -600 that visited this year.

[candoo]

I spent from Sunday 18th July to Sunday 25th July inclusive working the show representing the aerospace division of a 250,000 employee company. Apart from being absolutely knackered and sick of the sight of our stand at the end of it I can offer the following comments.

Our stand was very, very expensive the floor space alone cost £400 per square metre we had £23,000's worth. We were "allowed" 8 exhibitors passes but needed 10. We were allocated no trade day passes to invite customers, we were permitted to buy as many as we wished at £21.00 (from memory) a shot. Returning unused trade day passes for a refund was not an option.

We will not exhibit in 2006.

Public could and did gain access on all trade days all you had to show was a business card (no scrutiny) at the gate and pay the cash in yer go!

Everything inside was a rip off and of poor quality (except in the chalets of course :) )

Parking was a nightmare as previously mentioned.

Can't comment much on trade day flying as was busy but thought the weekend excellent.

The real problem for exhibitors is the length of the show, five days of trade is too long it ties up a lot of resource and companies simply cannot afford to lose people for this long. At the show most agreed 3 days would be ample and this was the main reason the show was "dead" on Thursday and Friday. People travelling from other parts of the globe do not want to hang around for the public days unless they are relevant in the public domain. Who wants to buy a moving walkway or a titanium fastener on a Saturday or Sunday?

Even the SBAC staff I spoke to at a function on Friday said they believed Farnborough 2006 would be the last - tis a real shame. I thoroughly enjoyed 2000 and 2002 but the same old "make money at all costs" seems to have clouded some of the organisors vision.

Le Bourget is tops!!!!

[farnboroughspotter]

My first post so be gentle.!!!
I live in Farnborough and always take the two weeks off work, not that it seems worth it any more.
Trade tickets are now very easy to get. Until two years ago you really did have to be trade now anybody with some brains can order them from the SBAC website with no checks, its that easy.
From an spotters point of view the Monday/Tuesday trade days are a must now as so many of the bizjets depart midweek. I visited on Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday this year through extra tickets from my other half who works for BAE and there were plenty of spotters. Personally I have no problem with it and it seem neither does the SBAC. Spotters generally stay away from the halls so do not interfear with business. My guess that pre display times those walking the outside areas were 20% spotters and 30% freebies. If you all remember the Friday was always 'public premium day' until the late 80s'.
The show is fading away and does not seem to attract many large companys. My guess is that it will go to three/four days with no flying display, just demos.

[uy707]

Sobs
The Omega 707-320C fly in and out un-noticed ....
Alain