Vietnam Airlines

[Norwegian wood]

Anybody out there working for Vietnam Airlines??
I would like some info regarding rostering and living in Saigon.

[topman999]

Norwegian Wood,

Send me a PM to talk more if interested in a career with Vietnam Airlines.
Rgds

[chrislikesblue]

Hi Topman Im also interested in working for Vietnam Airlines.Could you please send me some info about?

[hapimus]

pls send me info on vietnam airlines employment....

[flyingcrazy]

Me too, pls PM me if u don't mind
Thanks :ok:

[jeepguy]

Topman,

Pls PM me as well when you have the time. Thanks.

[flexi_time]

me too, me too, please some info.

[bafanguy]

PARC is advertising for A320 capts for Vietnam Air...type rated and 1500 hours A320 PIC. Didn't see any FO jobs listed but there must be some.

[Diesel8]

Just looked at Parc, they show F/O as well.

Anyone have the numbers, pay etc?

Topman, would like to hear about it as well.

Thanks,

D8

[bafanguy]

Well, if they pay like all the other Asian carriers I've seen advertising, it'll be unadulterated cr@p. Most seem to be in the US$5000 to 8000 range.

[varigflier]

Me too. I am also interested in a job there.

[porkandbrew]

I would appreciate some INFO on VietNam Airlines here on the board if possible. I have to wait for A330/A340's to arrive, since I have never flown the A320, and apparently normal CCQ is not accepted. Are there differences in pay btn A320/B777 crews? Is it possible to bring a family, and would the 6/2 deal still be on if You live in Ho Chi Min? Cost of living? Availability and quality of schooling? Is it better or worse than Korean and China Airlines?
Basic pay, Per Diem at an acceptable level? Do the locals treat You OK? Lots of questions, looking forward to lots of answers!
Best Regards,
Porkand cold, cold brew!:O

[Lost in Saigon]

Are there differences in pay btn A320/B777 crews?

Pay is approx the same for A320, B767 Capt and F/O at appox $9,000 and $6,000 USD per month.

There are currently no Expat B777 F/O’s and I don’t expect you will see any for some time. I believe Captains make a little more than the others. $10,000 ?

There are also no Expat ATR F/Os, but there is speculation that they may have trouble filling those jobs as well. ATR Captains make close 6K as well I think

Is it possible to bring a family, and would the 6/2 deal still be on if You live in Ho Chi Min? Cost of living? Availability and quality of schooling? Is it better or worse than Korean and China Airlines?

Many guys bring their families. Yes you get the same time off if you live in HCMC. You also get one confirmed pass anywhere in the VN system to use each time on your days off.

Cost of living is very cheap. You can rent a nice house for $1,000 per month. Full time maid is only $50 / month. Beer, food and entertainment is also cheap. There are quite a few International Schools but they are expensive at $1,000 USD per month and there is no schooling allowance.

You get full medical coverage from your contractor and they have some first rate clinics here staffed by English speaking foreigners.
Example … I went to a clinic because of a sore back and within minutes a “nice Jewish Doctor” from Israel saw me, sent me upstairs for Xrays and then had the on staff Radiologist (his wife) go over the “films”. There was no problem but he offered me an MRI just to be sure. I declined even though that service would takes months to schedule back home in Canada. They gave me some medication and I walked out without paying a cent.

Basic pay, Per Diem at an acceptable level? Do the locals treat You OK? Lots of questions, looking forward to lots of answers!

As I said, pay is about 9K for Capt and 6K for F/O all tax free. There are no per diems paid. You take care of your own expenses but of course hotels and transportation is paid at all layovers. Some hotels include breakfast.

The locals are great. Everyone is friendly to you and overall HCMC is a pretty safe place to live. The other pilots treat us very well even though they only make a fraction of what we do. They do get per diems though and as a result they like flying to Japan where they get the most.

I have no personal experience living on Korea or China, but from what I hear Vietnam compares favorably.

I hope you find this information useful.

Lost in Saigon

[swish266]

Life in Vietnam in general and with HVN in particular is crap.
Full stop!
Anybody interested further about my opinion - look up my posts under swish266...
I find a lot of guys cant use a modern search engine! Shame!

[Belowclouds]

Would you bafanguy and swish be more exact about payment $8000-$5000 and lifestandards are cr@p. What does it mean? Is it too small? Or too much to believe? All the conditions in Vietnam are much better then those you can expect in Middle East, or may be I do not understand something? Taking into consiederation the fact of crying coming from Emirates and almost total silence from Far East, something really important escapes me.

[topman999]

People should keep in mind the very low cost of living in vietnam. Its less than 10% of the average EU country. So even if it is $5000 a month, it would compare to earning $50,000 a month in europe. How would that be ? The problem is that most pilots coming out here invariably have a wife and kids with them and this is where costs can escalate in addition to the wife and kid(s) becoming jadded with the cultural difference. They than nag the husband (pilot) who invariably speaks badly of the country he is in as his wife and kid are not happy and take it out on him. Go figure the rest! Hence the negativity here among some posters.
If you are free and single, jump at the chance to work for Vietnam airlines. They are generally a good airline with good respect for foreigners and word has it that some F/O's (expats) will be in line for promotion due to fleet expansion. Vietnam is beautiful by the way, - unspoilt landscape and charming people who are welcoming. A difference from other asian countries I could mention for sure. The weather is also great as well as the food. I need not mention the women there as we all know how beautiful they are.
So give it a go.

[Peter Nielsen]

Hello out there

I'm finishing my JAA ATPL in three month - just passed my CPL-multi - and i'm looking for a job anywhere on this planet. As for money: I spent it all on my training so my bank loan can not accomodate a type rating.
IS THERE COMPANIES OUT THERE LOOKING FOR A 29-YEAR-OLD SCANDINAVIAN WITH MINUMUM HOURS BUT GLIDER SINCE THE AGE OF 15?

[email protected]

[swish266]

BC!
Sorry to give U an online lesson,
But as I said b4, just click on my login, swish 266, go to my profile and click option "view all comments by this member". Then U can read plenty bout this Cr-p Ho-e

top999
I gather U might'av never set a foot in SGN.
What about the filthy Mekong that caries all d **** from S/E Asia right through downtown Saigon?
What about d small dead creek just 3 km from d apt (all dat go for a flt must pass over it) that "flavors" close and no so close neighbourhoods?
What about drugs being pushed on yr kids at every corner of d top int. secondary school?
What about d famous amoeba?
What about gettin gastro couple times a month.
This is a filthy Country with bottom standards in everythin...
Saved 100.000USD in 3.4 years but dont think it justifies d sacrifice...
Good luck to all d adventure seekers... And take up an AIDS ins policy if U can get one. Vietnam has currently d highest HIV-pos grouth rate in dis World...

[LindbergB767]

TOP 999 is very right and do not take the advise of Swish 266
I have been there for many years on B767 and it is a great place to work. Nothing is perfect and if you know a place to life and to work who is perfect let me know
I have been living and working there for more than 10 years and the only reason that I left was because the B767 is fadind away

[Sheep Guts]

Ok fellas this is a Hypothetical.
Say someone turned up with an A320 Type Rating bare and around 5200tt with 3000 Multi Turbine Command P1 . Would one get a look in. Swish ev ery country has its pros and cons. Veitnam is alot closer to OZ than where I am at the moment.

Any advice appreciated

Sheep

[A/T less]

There are lots of places in the world I wouldn't rather be.

But I hardly ever felt the need to bash the entire country on a public forum.

So what exactly is your motivation?

[LindbergB767]

To Sheep guts

I suggest to you to send your CV to EuroPacific because they are providing the pilots for VN
VN DO NOT Hired pilots directly
You may do not have the requirements but they are looking for 17 Captains and 17 FOs on A320
D ont give up and good luck

[Stripes]

Those who do not wish to live in Vietnam could look at Tiger in Singapore.

Offering Capts $180,000 Sing a year based on sector pay and $120,000 for F/O's. No other allowances but everything does work in Singapore!!

[WTFAW]

:confused: Let's face it... Would any of us be in Asia if we weren't desperate?:{

[mach 84]

just saw that rishworth is looking for direct entry captains on the vn 777 fleet, any insider info available about the conditions?

[bob_bowne]

I have lived here for a few years now, Saigon is as good as anywhere in asia and better than most. I eat whatever I feel, drink the water, go wherever I want. I have been sick once and that was from an aircraft meal

VN has just initiated an internal upgrade for foreigners as well as direct entry for both the A320 and the B777, the B767 seems to be on its way out at the moment but that has happened before and it has bounced back.

Parc, Richworths and Euro Pac all supply pilots to VN, Parc seems to be the pick of the bunch.

If you commute it is a very cheap place to live and save. If you bring your family and live in the western area and have kids at an international school the costs are about the same as anywhere else. Either is a viable option.

[swish266]

Guys,
Everybody has the right to get info. Some people, mainly d ones from Oz, like it dere for the commuting arrangements.
I hated it.
But do not say I am wrong. If HVN was a honey-pot dey would not be paying top $$! Only way to get decent pilots is to PAY TOP DOLLAR!
I leave it to U to draw yr conclusions...

[Soho_Sophie]

Swish, Have to agree with you. I hated it too.

[McGreaser]

Just got a call from Euro Pacific for the First Officer position with Vietnam Airlines. They say the B767 is being phased out soon with conversion for the B767 crew to 777. Am biting my lip and starring at myself in the mirror google eyed !:sad: Have a wife and a 4 month old baby. Got prospects of command in the next 12 months with my current outfit on B737. The money is slightly better with Vietnam but then :confused: Ppruners don't make things any easier do you......To those in the know what are the chances of getting command for an expat and roughly how long the 767 have been rumoured to be on their way ? Just noticed a huge demand for B767 crew of late and would hate to end up choosing the wrong outfit.

[Sheep Guts]

McGreaser ,
From what your saying I would stay put, if you get Command in 12 months. Then burn the candle at boths ends to get those damm Command hours. Swapping ships wont get you a command earlier will it?

Sheep

[Lost in Saigon]

McGreaser ,

For which aircraft are you being offered the FO position at Vietnam Airlines?

Where is your present position?

[McGreaser]

Lost in Saigon

It's for the 767.

[Norwegian wood]

I think this string has diverted from its original purpose,anyhow
why are Vietnam Airlines and other asian airlines unable to recruit local pilots??

[Lost in Saigon]

Parc Aviation is now looking for B767 FO’s for contract with Vietnam Airlines.

Pay is $6,000 USD / month with no other allowances paid out.
(accommodation, meal per diems, etc, are not paid) Layover hotels and transportation are paid for.

Work 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Fly confirmed anywhere on Vietnam Airlines each time off. eg. Paris, Frankfurt, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney, Melbourne, etc. Rumour is next year London and/or Los Angeles/San Francisco will be added.

Generally they want you have 500 hours FO time on the 767 and to be current within the last 6 months.

They ask for the last 3 pages of your logbook and a copy of your last PPC to verify currency.

They may reduce those requirements if they can’t find anyone so it may be worth applying even if you are not current.

[alatnariver]

For all of you interested in a position with HVN.

Well this airline is in most areas far away from being an airline you probably know. The standards you will find here are not what they should be or as some people say below standard.

You will have to deal with a lot of problems. The maintenance is in parts very bad and may only be called repair, if at all. The Maintenance is carried out by two separate divisions within the company, one serves the Boeing fleet and the other the products assembled in Europe's south. The one for the Toulouse products either with props or with the sidestick is really bad and there are a lot of problems. It should be better on the Boeing fleet.

The flying standards are very different. You will find some good local guys but you will experience that the vast majority of the local pilots are below average airline standard performance. That's what you will have to deal with. Due to the fact that most of the pilots on the B767 fleet are expats it is indeed better there but it is an issue for the ATR and the Airbus fleet.

Regarding the story about possible upgrades, well don't expect that it will happen to you. As the B767 will be phased out over the next three to four years - which is what I expect - you will lose your job here. The B777 will be a mostly local pilot operated fleet. The B777 is the shining horse of the company and all of the important people got promoted onto this horse and this will last until they wont find any local pilot who would fly the B777.

The same applies to the proposed upgrades on the Airbus fleet for current FO. There was a letter issued in the past days that this option is canceled. So you see how far you can trust the people over here.

An other big issue in the last weeks was that despite the fact that according to the contract each pilot is entitled for a confirmed seat and ticket for his two weeks off boarding was denied and the pilots had to delay their home travel. Flights are full and even with a ticket you will get kicked off a flight. Not only one may be twice or three times in a row. That's especially nice if you have an arrangement for your travel from Paris or any other place to your domicile. Don't expect to get reimbursed for that.

It is hard to predict if an individual would like living (and working) in Saigon, or like it is officially called Ho Chi Minh City. It is truly an Asian city but you must keep in mind that this is a big industrial city of a developing country. You have to expect smog, dirt, noise and all the other disadvantages. The beaches are far away, too far to get their for your single day off while you are here. There is not much to do than eating, drinking, an occasional visit to the gym or some form of "fun". That's it.

I know people see things different, so this is just my humble own opinion and experience after being here for about a year. Be careful if you plan to join HVN. If you have a good jib elsewhere stick with it. If you have a family stay with them if you are really desperate for job, than you should think about it.

An to a ad one thing to the racism discussion, as an expat you have to expect to get all **** trips that are available. All, really all.

[faheel]

alatnariver
Good post, I was interested but now I am not.
The bit about being bumped off your firm seat home was the clincher.
I bet you are never bumped off your return flight though!

[alatnariver]

... right faheel, I never experienced this and I never heared of this.

And for those in the RHS looking for a LHS, don't believe the agencies, it wont happen!

For this issue put just your self in the position of a local FO, would you accept that an expat with a contract agency would get a comand upgrade and you would have to wait, even if you have the hours? I would feel the same as they do and they are right!

[fullforward]

Congratulations on the good posts!
It´s all about what a PPRUNE must be!
Honest, balanced and to the point on what pilots considering an assignement need to know.
Keep the good job!

[swish266]

This irresponsible post has been removed and the user banned from any further contributions to the forum for a period.

Ignorance is no defence. You all know not to name names. You all know the meaning of the word "libel" and if you don't then go look it up in a dictionary as that is what as moderators we have to guard against. If you wish to commit a libel, then you are free to do so after providing PPRuNe with verifiable bona-fides on your identity and willingness to back up your statements in a court of law. Without such indemnity, then your words will be struck, and you will be banned.

A copy of the original post has been held by PPRuNe.

[FBW390]

Lost in Saigon,
Could you please say if the salaries of 9000 USD for PIC and 6000 USD for FO are for crews employed by contractors like Parc or Rishworth ( Expats ), or for people directly employed by VN ?
Regards.
FBW390

[HVN-driver]

The Expats are only hired by contracting agencies, no expat is hired directly by HVN!

If you would be hired directly guess what you would earn... :(

They like us here "very" much if you belive it or not. The working conditions are deteriorating in a way that it is hard to believe. Don't expect that what the agencies tell you is true or that you can trust them.

[FBW390]

Thanks for the infos HVN-Driver. Any information or confirmation for the Captain salary of 9000 USD with the agencies like Parc, Rishworth or Euro Pacific?
I suppose the payment is offshore?

thanks.
FBW390

[Lost in Saigon]

Vietnamese Nationals make far less than Expats. I believe it is the order of $1,000-$2000 USD per month. But that is at least ten times the national average salary. They do quite well on that and many supplement that with a little import/ export operation.

Nationals are hired out of the Airforce or through a cadet program. Cadets have to pay big money and are not permitted to leave the country to work elsewhere.

For Expats, pay is approx the same for A320, B767 Capt at $9,000/mo and F/O at appox $6,000/mo. There are some minor differences according to which contract you are with.

Right now A320 pilots have the power to negotiate a better deal due to the high demand. The last few managed to get a little more monthly salary I was told. They also were fully reimbursed for their initial travel expenses to the nearest Vietnam Airlines departure point. Something that many others never did.

B777 Captains make a little more than the others. $12,000 ?
There are currently no Expat B777 F/O’s. I don’t expect you will see any for a while, but they are talking about upgrades.

Payment is offshore or anywhere you want it. There is tax in Vietnam but all contracts are written so that the tax is covered by Vietnam airlines.

[FBW390]

Thank you for these important informations, Lost in Saigon.
Regards.
FBW390;)

[Edward555]

Whats with the nonsense about going to Saychelles to write Air Law exams prior to getting hired? And on your own dime too? It seems silly.

[HVN-driver]

The requirement for the Seychelles air law exam is only for the A320 drivers, as all other aircraft including the A321's are VN registered. So you need a Seychelles license if you fly the A320's.

Take it this way the agencies all try to keep their costs down and that's what they could do for the last months or years. I am sure this will change in the future. As far as I know the beautiful islands of the Seychelles are a destination that's hard to reach and so it is very expensive to get there. I have heared that you have to spent about US$ 1000 to US$ 2000 for this event.

Regarding the salaries for the different fleets I can confirm the numbers stated by "Lost in Saigon". It seems that the folks on the Airbus and on the B777 get slightly more than on the B767.

Regarding the possible upgrades from B767 to B777 I don't belive this and I never did!
Take it this way, the story was brought up to keep us here. It's like the carrot you put infront of the nose of a donky to keep it runing. That's what they are looking for. The B777 is the biggest ship and this will be flown by local in first place. Take a look at the ads looking for B777 captains, so you see they are looking for rated chaps and are not realy interested in upgrading one of the expats.

For those who are interested in joining and coming from a place far off the HVN route network be aware that the travel problem, meaining being off loaded from a flight you have a "confirmed" ticket, occured again very recently and not only once.
Further to this one pilot was stuck in Paris getting back to Vietnam for a couple of days. As far as I know he never got reimbursed for the expenses he spent for hotac in Paris.

[Norwegian wood]

what about the golf courses in Saigon area ,by the way??

[Sick Squid]

This thread is back, though I am on the verge of closing it down based upon the amount of useless abusive posts coming in recently.

However the basic premise of the thread is sound, and there are enough responsible posts to make it worthwhile. I will now cull off the useless posts, leave only those worthwhile and pertinent to the debate, and if you have a complaint that one of your oh-so witty put-downs has been lost in the internet ether then a/ go find the smallest denomination coin in your local currency b/ leave your place of abode c/ find the nearest public telephone, and d/ use said coin to phone someone who gives a :mad: because I am fed up with people abusing this resource.

Please see the sticky at the top of the forum for further elucidation.

Back to the topic in hand.

Sick Squid
Far East Forum Moderator

[LindbergB767]

I am 100% with Sick Sqid It is not the place to mention personnal name on this site and the guy who did it would not be happy if I will mention his name and that his contract was not renewed in 1998 at the request of the Vietnamese

Norvegian Wood
There is 2 very nice golf in Hochiminh City but it is about $ 100 US the week end and $ 50.00 on week days

I agree with HVN Driver. VN management say they will check some guys on the 777 but it is so expensive that I do not believe that those guys will pay $ 41000 US to get the check

[HVN-driver]

Yep it's not a good idea of mentioning names here!

Regarding the upgrade take it this way, maybe they figured out initially that they need more pilots, then they put out the official option of upgrades for expats without stating any details. This was followed by a high number of "application letters" of expats. Just have a look at the list that was available for everyone to check.

Surely this option for expats upset a lot of the locals. Remember that the B777 is the top ship and that we are sitting "on their seats" on this ship if we would get there, for the FO to Captain upgrade this would be the same. So I assume that the local pilots got the party involved. Keep in mind that a lot of the local pilots have very close ties to government circles. A lot of personal relations.

Then they "calculated" how much the individual pilot would have to pay for his type rating on a B777 or the A320. This led to the figure LindbergB767 mentioned in his last post.

Now think about this:
Maybe they just put the "payment" so high that none of the pilots on the list would be interested anymore. So "their problem" was solved and they could pull out of this by keeping their face, as none of the expats maybe interested anymore, due to the financial loss for them if they would take this option.

To keep it short, I personally think that they have never been really interested in this at all but the management of a certain level had to find a way to get what they want and/or to keep their faces. Finally this should keep the job here interesting to us as they started loosing pilots.

[leftseatview]

hey folks~

i am cosidering a contract on the A320 leftseat with VAC.

Would appriciate some info on the living conditions in Ho Chi Min city.
Are fully furnished Apartments available?

Also some info about the selection process,and working conditons for Expats on contract.

Are the A320 and A321 fleets seperate,or you get to fly both?

Thanks in advance

[alatnariver]

Well to answer your question you have the to fly both the A321 and the A320.

As the A320's are registered in the Seychelles you will have to sit the Seychelles air law exam, which is usually held in the Seychelles. Until recently you have been required to pay for your trip to the Seychelles your self.

The selection process, if you like to call it so, is quite simple. You will do two simulator sessions which will serve as check for the Vietnamese and Seychelles license. That's all.

Regarding the housing options here in Saigon or as it is called officially today Ho Chi Minh City, there are fully furnished apartments available, but be aware that you will have to pay an expat-rent for this type of accommodation. You will have to look at about US$ 1000 per month fully furnished and service. The last one means that you will have someone who cleans your apartment on a regular basis and that someone takes care of you laundry.
As you see you will probably use nearly all of the so called housing or accommodation allowance for your accommodation here in Saigon.

The rest of the live here, well it depends on if you like it or not. Rostering used to be tight and the travel problem is still not solved, regardless what any contracting agency will probably tell you. It's an issue presently and if you are living not in Australia or even not in Europe it is a bigger problem for you than for the folks from this areas.

Well expect a lot of things you are probably not used to regarding the operation itself.

[A320CAPT]

alatnariver,

What about rumors about the "reduced" flight-hours requirements for the A320/321 LHS position? I don't have enough for the moment to be considered by VAC as a direct entry capt but I don't particulary want to change my privileges for the f/o...
I guess the job might be interesting for those being unemployed!

cheers

[alatnariver]

Below you find the required hours. I don't know if the company has reduced these values recently or if they are considering in doing so. These are the values they have been looking for during the last months and years, and these values are the same as stated presently by the different agencies:

- 1000 P1 A320
- 3000 P1
- 6000 TT
- last sim check within last 6 months
- last flight on type within last 5 months

Maybe they will skip the requirement of the time between the last flight on type and your sim check for Vietnam Airlines.

But who knows.

If you are unemployed and can't find a job in your part of the world or if you are considering enjoying the Asian lifestyle just give it a try.

[Dani]

The fact is that some agencies lowered the minimum requirement. If VAC did accept that I do not know yet.

[leftseatview]

Thank You for your prompt reply Alatnariver,

So if you are flying with VAC,i might get to meet you soon!

Happy Landings

[bingomakintosh]

Does Vietnam Airlines take FAA ATP or only ICAO ATPL's? Currently 4800 TT, 2000 Jet. Is it worth applying with this time or first converting to ICAO ATPL? Also love the Asian countries, can't wait to get back there and taste the delights.

Bingo

[bingomakintosh]

Typed on a Lear with 2000 hrs. 900 of which command. Wish it was something a little bit bigger. Do they take guys with no heavy time?

[bingomakintosh]

Cheers anyway,

looks like I'll be stuck in the US for a little while longer. The search continues.

Bingo

[FlyMD]

Hi there,

I am currently base in Malaysia as Pic on a F900. TT 6200 hrs, Jet command time 1800, A320 time 1450 hrs as P2... Worth applying as P1, or hopeless?

Cheers

[topman999]

yes, I would tend to agree that an immediate upgrade is simply not possible. One cannot expect to arrive into the LHS at any new carrierwith prior LHS experience
Rgds

[FlyMD]

Yes, I would agree that no LHS experience would be a problem, but my case is a little bit different, having 1000 hours + LHS experience on MD80, plus about 800 hours Pic on G5, F900 and the likes.... It's the 320 time that was spent on the RHS...
But I see your point, the major obstacle being that my last flight on a 320 dates back 3 years...

[HVN-driver]

I think it is hopeless if you don't have P1 experience on the type. The minimum requirements have been comunicated by the airline to the agencies and these are the minimums.

Keep in mind this is a contract job and nor a career position. Please don't compare Vietnam Airlines with carriers like Singapore or even Cathay or Dragon. Vietnam Airlines is that far from being in that league as the distance between Earth and Saturn.