Pacific Blue OZ services to be crewed by Kiwi's

[cool&thegang]

I'm sure it comes as no suprise to anyone,but Virgin Blue have just announced that all proposed international services will be operated by the cheaper Pacific Blue crews,not the Virgin crews to which it was promised.

Shortly thereafter news arrived that Brisbane commands will soon dry up,with only a trickle to continue in Melbourne only.

My question is,how on earth can kiwi crews gain approval to operate Australian international services,in VH registered aircraft??! And most importantly,what stance (if any) will the AFAP take on this blatent insult to the hardworking Virgin guys & gals?

It will be a sad day if this is allowed to continue.

:yuk:

[slamer]

Not a "sad day" if your working for Pacific Blue!!!!

Besides....I thought Virgin Airlines are the saviour of Aviation in both countries and around the world!

By the way, are you suggesting Pacific Blue crew are not hard working!....... I"ll bet Virgin Management dont see it that way.

Is reality biting a little too hard!!!!

[sinala1]

Coolandthegang in no way insinuated the crew from Pacific Blue NZ (not Virgin Pacific - no such airline exists, and singapore airlines will ensure it stays that way) are not hard working - he/she was moreso referring to the way the international flying was promised to australian crew a while back, and now that promise has been broken. The same happened to the cabin crew.

[Sid Departure]

"how on earth can kiwi crews gain approval to operate Australian international services,in VH registered aircraft??!"


I'm pretty sure you'll find that Pacific Blue aircraft carry a ZK registration.

[sinala1]

From what I understand, a seperate company Pacific Blue (Australia) has been formed, and will be wet leasing from Pacific Blue (NZ). Again from what I understand (open to correction) wet leasing also includes the aircraft, although Virgin Blue still has a few VH registered aircraft with Pacific Blue livery, on the AOC. Can those aircraft be transferred across to Pacific Blue Australia, then flown by Pacific Blue NZ pilots, under a labour leasing arrangement?

[Cactus Jack]

VB Pilots Beware!

Guys, the same that has already happened to QF ie Jitcinnict, and J* is happenning to you guys, unless you do something about it....

Maybe its too late already.

[propaganda]

CJ,

Nice one mate.... should ruffle a few Kiwi feathers..and do alot for the Virgin methodology....I gather the reason is economics.
However, if you want to upset your future work mates go ahead..:;)

[piontyendforward]

A more correct statement would be that Pacific Blue's New Zealand based tech crew would be flying the aircraft. The fact is that there are not many Kiwi's flying Pacific Blue aircraft, or Jet Connect for that matter. Most are Aussie's either living in Christchurch or commuting from Aussie to work.

[Cactus Jack]

Actually, propaganda, I work for the rat. Just an outsider looking in. I hope what has happened to us doesnt happen to you guys. Being white anted aint much fun.

And it doesnt matter whether they are aussies, kiwis, siberians or bloody martians, the end result is the same.

We ALL need to stand up and be heard and stop white anting each other...

[BankAngle50]

Just another example of Australians selling themselves out!

Why not use Vietnamese or some 3rd world African crews that will work for 3 USD a day and no overnight allowances.

Flown Y class on QF (LHR-BKK or SIN) lately. Good luck if you can find a FA that is actually Australian. Should the CSM end his/her PA with “QANTAS the THAI Airline?”

The shame of all this is that our government allows these dubious measures to avoid employing people with Australian conditions. Don’t blame the Kiwis, they are just taking up an opportunity that we (our government) is stupid enough to allow. What annoys me is that while we sell out our own industry to foreigners the reciprocal opportunity to operate in their country’s is denied.

Why get an Aussie passport or paddle from Indonesia when you can work here illegally with government approval.

[bitter balance]

BankAngle50 - Aussie individuals and companies do have reciprocal rights to operate in NZ. Whether they would want to or not is for a different thread ;)

[ZK-NSN]

While trying not to offend anybody, The AFAP (i assume its the union) are probably partly to blame for the situation. From what we heard here in NZ when Ansett Aust went to the wall the staff protection and conditions offered by then union had been crazy.
Unions can be a good thing and can benefit all parties but they can also hold companies to ransom.
I am not for a minute suggesting NZ pilots are not sided with a/the union or are some sub-speicies (as was pointed out earlier most are Aussie anyway) or that Ansetts demise was only down to the unions.

[slamer]

SINALA1

Promises!!.......HELLO!!!.......count for NOTHING!!!!!

I have no sympathy for your industrial naivety.....if this is your style of negotiation,expect more of the same!

[stillalbatross]

Anyone know the lowest paid 737 captain salary in Oz/NZ in the past 5-10 years (since Freedom etc started up)?

I was told $59000 NZ a year basic/minimal allowances.

[qfpaypacket]

Surely the irony is not lost on everyone..... VB drivers are worried about people undercutting them! Oh no (gasp!) these new people may now devalue the industry...... no more however than VB drivers have already done to the rest of the airline industry.

[sinala1]

Oh no (gasp!) these new people may now devalue the industry...... no more however than VB drivers have already done to the rest of the airline industry.

Do you blame the pilots for devaluing the industry, or the company that hires them, and the union that represents them? After all, at the end of the day, who is it that negotiates the EBA's? The guys & gals who apply for these jobs come in on a salary that was set before they got there... you can't blame the people that apply for jobs that are vacant? This applies not only to techies but also cabin crew...

Maybe a different way to look at it is if you had done your bush/GA/regional time, flying a twin turbo say maybe on $50K a year, and the chance came up to fly a jet at say maybe $85K a year. What would your thoughts be:

a) Hey great this is an opportunity for me, I am going for it!; or

b) Hmm this job has come up, it pays (hypothetically) $30K less than if I got the same job with this particular airlines competitor, which will in the long run bring down the average wage across the board in the industry, so I am going to turn down this job?

At the end of the day, you gotta feed your family and pay your bills...

On that note, I do believe that pilots should be paid more, it sucks seeing pay scales come down and course prices go up etc, I have lots of mates who have put in so much time and effort just to lose their jobs through collapses (eg AN, Flight West etc) and then not be able to get work anywhere else... a lifetimes effort wasted...

[Mr.Buzzy]

Hey QFPaypacket!
I bet youre the kind of guy that stands up and demands why his shares arent performing at shareholders meetings!"
"Why must we pay those executives so much?.... They are cutting into my dividend!"
Get over yourself bucko...the gravytrain pulled out of OZ long ago!

[Sperm Bank]

When are we all going to realise just how hopelessly neolithically incompetent and irrelevant the AFAP have become. It is an old boys club with NO interest in the welfare of members (particularly at DJ). I have cancelled my membership. I hope the rest of you guys have the gonads to do the same. We need REAL representation, not tokenism by cronies.

[SKYCAMEL]

Sperm Bank,

I agree totally ! The AFAP are a complete waste of time, and have become irrelevant at DJ. I think its time the pilots got rid of them and formed their own Pilot's Association. We wouldn't be any worse off. It's hopeless when the Head of AFAP, Head of Flight Ops, and the Self made Head of Pilot Group are all mates. The Pilots are only going to get screwed over more and more.:*