So excited I can't wait....

[JessTheDog]

...for my 3 new 15cm by 3cm patches emblazoned with "Royal Air Force" that I can sew to my CS95 (not the outer jacket mind you) and that will help those who recognise neither my beret badge nor my distinctive rank to realise that I am in the Royal Air Force!!!!!!!!:D

It is great to know that we can still find money for these types of initiative during a time of cutbacks! Makes me proud to serve! And I hope the chap who thought up this gets one of the new £1000 chairs as a reward!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

[Leprechaun]

Shameless copying of our new velcro backed ROYAL NAVY embroidered badges......

[airborne_artist]

The Royal Marines have had shoulder flashes for years, presumably so people didn't mistake them for pongos....

[Occasional Aviator]

Meanwhile, those RAF personnel in the JHC are already wearing JHC formation badges - which take precedence, as you're only allowed to wear one badge plus your UJs? Should I advertise my 'full command' or embrace jointery? Either way, I'll probably p1$$ someone off!

[JessTheDog]

Apparently these ones go over the right breast - isn't that chest in these PC days?

[Trumpet_trousers]

.....maybe it's for ease of identification during Op Fresco 2??...

[Mr C Hinecap]

Chaps - I am on the very outer edges of the Empire here - the mail ship is slow and the telegraph is playing up. Any good links for this sort of guff?
Heard stories (again) about aircrew getting lovely little wingy things to put on shirts too. Save all that awful summer sweating at Brize I guess. Please add to rumours with anything wilder than current truth (if possible).

Ta.

[mbga9pgf]

May I ask, whatever happened to looking at rank tabs?

[Stitchbitch]

Great, more rubbish to stitch on....:}

[BEagle]

I thought it was only the RAF Regiment and Plod who wore little labels so that other people could lead them back to where they worked after they'd forgotten after lunch?

[BEagle]

Ah - but the Rocks know effing well that it's only a joke. Some of the RAF's finest, they are. Honest - and some of the most humorous if GDT/ODT/CCS at the covert WestOxonian aerodrome was anything to judge by.

[Olly O'Leg]

Hey, here's an idea - let's save on employing tailors by making every badge metal with a pin on it and, when presented, the RAF can hammer the things into your chest - who said we don't learn from other nations.......!!!!! Anyone for a GEMS????

[Leprechaun]

Oh those RAF Regiment chappies are so tough! Glad I never faced one down in Lincoln........Oh! Too late!:E
Saved my Plastic Surgeon a Fortune though!

[Gainesy]

Maybe they should issue a badge to go on yer hat....hmm that'd never catch on would it?

Or how about a different coloured uniform. One understands that there is a load of cloth left redundant from the Tsar's proposed palace guard? No?

Well, maybe a neat eagle badge on each shoulder? Nah, too stupid.

Let's go for something that 90+% of the world can't read/understand. Perfect.

Under the new non-swearing edict, one can only remark "Caber Throwers".

[brakedwell]

In the good old days we had to buy our "regulation" black plastic name tabs in Changi Village, which seemed a good idea at the time because it was easy to forgot who we were!

[Threeshotstooclose]

Great I'll be able to put one on the new RAF rucksack they are going to provide!!! What about something useful like a long coat to keep my legs dry during the Summer?:{

[JessTheDog]

Let's go for something that 90+% of the world can't read/understand. Perfect.

Excellent point, given our new-found expeditionary role!

[CatpainCaveman]

Of course not forgetting the rank slides with Royal Air Farce written on them. Apparently the powers that be conducted a survey and found that the RAF were not recognised by many people as the uniforms looked too much like those of the RAC and ambulance service. At last I will be able to remember who I am supposed to be working for .... that has been bugging me for years!:uhoh:

And I so hope that everyone is getting excited by the new RAF DZ patch that will be worn on the right arm, along with your first aid, knot tying and helping-old-ladies-across-the-road badges. Of course these are only supposed to be velcroed on as you get rid of them once you have jumped and correctly formed up to preven the enemy knowing which unit is which. However, I'm sure velcro is not condusive to good order and discipline. But the burning question on my mind is, if they give me a DZ flash, are they expecting me to jump out of a plane???????

Is there something I have missed whilst I was on leave????:\

That said, if the powers that be's intention was to make a more united air farce, then it's worked, but not in the way they expected. I saw the original letter, signed off by someone known only as 'Sir' and all the replies and forwarded messages were united in their condemnation of this stupid idea.

[teeteringhead]

And part of the previous post reminds me.....

Once when I was involved with Int & Sy for the RAF in Norn Iron, I had an apopleptic 'phone call from the 1* COS at Lisburn saying (shouting) with disbelief that an airman in uniform had been seen in a Shoopping Centre near Lisburn (unsurprisingly, uniform in puiblic the ultimnate no no).

Fortunately, the brig goes on, covert units were nearby and were able to "snatch" said airman and rush him to safety. Best I similarly rush to Lisburn to deal with him.

What me.... deal with an initially very frightened and subsequently extremely hacked off RAC man........:ok:

[wub]

I was once involved in a recruitment drive at a large school with a fellow Flt Lt. We were approached by an elderly lady who chatted to us about this and that for a few minutes then she patted my colleague on the arm and said, "Well I must be off dear, I hope you don't get too many casualties today"

[airborne_artist]

teeteringhead

That made my day - what was the response of the Brigadier?

[antipodean alligator]

At least this is the first iteration for you guys. Our lot started with RAAF, realised that it was far too unambiguous so they've now changed it to Air Force........Apparently our New Zealand / Canadian / British accents and our rediculously large hats will let any onlooker realise the Royal Australian bit! :confused:

[allan907]

As the Office Commander at RAFCIO Ilford in the late 70s I, and my team, were constantly being mistook for RAF and London Ambulance Service. So what's new?

Trenchard had it right when he put the eagles on the shoulders. And perhaps that's what ought to be brought back. A fine tradition uselessly scrapped by the PC/Fashion Idiots of the day.

[Ray Dahvectac]

Travelling back to Swinderby from the folks' place near London in No1 uniform one Sunday evening several years back - two old dears were most upset that I could not tell them the time of the next train.

"I don't know where London Transport get their staff these days!" :*

[BEagle]

Waiting to meet someone at Oxford station years ago in that awful 'Thunderbird' jacket of the time, I was approached by someone who insisted on knowing when the next train for London left.

"Sorry, no idea. I gave up train spotting at the age of 6 when Beeching killed off our local branch line", quoth I.

[RonRandom]

The possibilities are endless - maybe a new stable belt for each branch, some nice red collar flashes for staff officers, tartan squadron trousers - there must be enough there to get me promoted!

[GipsyMagpie]

It is so nice that they get rid of RAF on your dog tags in line with the big six then put it on your arm instead. Just like the force...one step forwards...a million back.

[akula]

:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:
I am so intrigued are there any images of said offending articles. Cheers in advance.


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[Exmil]

Even with badges some people would be too stupid to know who we were. Was walking in from a sortie on a Flag exercise when F15E driver asks "where are you guys from". The Royal Air Force I reply (standing in front of grey jet with roundels, wearing green bag with brevet, name, sqn patches etc). "Which Royal Air Force is that?" asks he....doh!

[whowhenwhy]

Hmmmm, exmil, are you suggesting that our colonial cousins have problems with their recognition skills? I can't believe it!

[Jacks Down]

I didn't pay this thread any attention but I've just read about it in SROs! The badge IS TO be worn by all personnel on CS95. So let's get this straight: as well as some complete :mad: about to disband half of my airforce tomorrow lunchtime they're also making me wear a great big nugget badge that will just give the Army and RN a golden opportunity to rip the pi$$ out of me, for ever. Last time I checked there were several other badges on my uniform that show which service I belonged to, and if someone is too ignorant to recognise them they are too ignorant for me to care about.

If the AFBLT monitor this site (and God knows, they should) then for pete's sake: leave us alone. Morale isn't exactly sky-high at the moment, in case you hadn't noticed.

[JessTheDog]

Must be so we have them all stitched on for Fresco 2!:mad:

[4fitter]

Sadly found out about our brave new badges courtesy of orders. Straw polled my staff and not one had a good word to say about the idea. None of us have an identity crisis. None of us saw it coming and none of us can see how spending all the thousands it will take to supply as being anything but crass - the day before our defence re-alignments !!

I have formally registered my discontent with the grown ups at PTC and asked for the RAF Dress Ctte to share with me the rationale behind the decision in order that I can properly justify their decision to my intelligent but now bemused staff.

For the sake of recognition avoidance I will not state how but I can assure fellow ppruners I am probably in the best position to advise if identity is or has been a problem. In sum there is no problem, that I am aware of and this thoroughly unnecessary expenditure and tinkering will serve to irritate more than motivate.

[JessTheDog]

If I get mine in the near future I'm putting my greens into the tailors to get them stitched on! And, if everybody else does the same, I won't be seeing either greens or offending badges for some time!!!:D

[BackfromIraq]

Wandering (moving smartly and with purpose) around a town near a base full of single-engined death traps in Cambs , I was berated for not doing more to catch shoplifters. So gob-smacked was I that I couldn't even point out the old dear's error!

Why should we have these things on our uniforms? The pongos don't have their regiment name on theirs, you either have to recognise it or plead ignorance and ask, and they've got more colours of beret than Frank Spencer. Besides, they'd never get 'First Batallion the Mercian Regiment (The Staffordshire Regiment)' on a badge 15x3cm.

[BATCO]

Since when did wearing the right badges, as opposed to (m)any badges, get enforced? I'll do my best to avoid wearing the badge as described just so some Yankee doesn't think 'Royal Air Force' is my name!

Remember, the Duke of Wellington said 'uniformity is a sign of mediocrity'.

[Mad_Mark]

First time I've heard of this. What an utter load of b0!!0x :mad:

I really despair at some (nae, most) of those idiots in HQ's that come up with $#!t like this! They really are out of touch with reality. About time some of these chimps came back to the coal face for a few months to remind them what the real RAF is like and how low morale is.

"Let's introduce stringent cuts (sorry, restructuring) whilst spending money on a complete farce like this, that will get me promoted and knighted!" To$$ers! Maybe they should save the money to help compensate house owners that are posted when their base closes and local house prices tumble!

I am really sick of this Mickey Mouse outfit, counting the days to IPP!!!

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

[Impiger]

At the risk of fuelling the debate rather than just letting it stale out perhaps a little balance is called for.

First a disclaimer - it wasn't my idea, I have never had anything to do with the Dress Regs Committee.

But I have had lots to do with promoting the good name of the RAF in the public eye and one of the constant bugbears has been getting them to realise that not everybody in combat kit is a soldier. The evidence is compelling: Foot & Mouth was clearly only dealt with by the Army; During FRESCO we went to extra lengths to paint Royal Air Force on the Green Goddess so that we could take our share of the public's grateful pride in their Armed Forces. This initiative isn't about being recognised by Rupert from the Wegiment or by Abdullah or, heaven forbid, by some baccy chewing red-neck Spam. Its all about promoting an image of a Service and reminding the folk out there that not only the Army are involved in operations and assistance to the community.

I too have been mistaken for an RAC man - an illusion instantly dispelled when my own car failed to start having been turned off during a refuelling stop at a Service area on the way back from a meeting with ........... you guessed - the Army. (nice chaps but I wouldn't want to breed from them) :E

[airborne_artist]

Of course if you'd done the sensible thing and joined the Navy you wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Ducks to avoid incoming....

[albert the first]

Of course Id much rather have to wear a badge, than join the navy and have to indulge in up hill gardening:ooh:

[Stonecutter]

I too think an embroidered badge is a waste of money. It is easy to distinguish you RAF chaps wearing CS95 from Army/RM by the lack of ironing and badly fitting berets. Why DO you need camouflaged clothing?

Arte et Marte

[Maple 01]

Why would you iron something that's supposed to be for camouflage? Oh yes, according to the Army nature is full of straight lines and sharp creases :D

-Nick

[rej]

While we are all being issued with new badges why don't they go the whole nine yards.

Go on and issue aircrew with metal, pin-on flying badges, brevets (whatever the current term is) like our USA counterparts have to be worn on shirts.

By doing so, sweaters would not need to be worn in hot weather but we would still know who are aircrew when No 2s are the order of the day.

Standing by for fall-out!

[Stonecutter]

Maple 01

That'll be a bite then.

You don't need straight lines and creases to have a smartly pressed uniform. Do you not get taught to look after your kit anymore? They used to be much better on 'GET SOME IN'.

Anyway why DO the RAF need camouflage, to be unobtrusive amongst the hotel foyer plants perhaps???

And don't get me started on the WAFU's aversion to boot polish, don't they sell it on boats?


Arte et Marte

[BEagle]

Surely one's batman presses one's uniform? And uses 'boot polish', whatever that might be, to keep one's footware in the right state.

Do away with all blunty blue - but keep No 1 HD and also Mess Kit.

For the rest of the time, DPM or its desert version either as in 2 piece Squaddy 95 form - or in flying suit form for aircrew.

[Sloppy Link]

Stand by! Aircrew CS95 inbound to allow said individuals to become the grey man in the event of ending up sausage side. How grey can you remain with "Royal Air Force" emblazoned on your uniform? The beauty of the rank slides is you can remove them with no marks being left and of course, you have to give your rank anyway under the GC's......"Fligh Lieutenant, Sir!"....and what service might you be from?
Mmm. Am confusing myself now. Time for a restock of the argument. Gordons and Tonic should do it.

[jindabyne]

In a local hotel bar last night, got chatting with a bunch of RAF guys on detachment. All were in DPMs, all of which differed in style, method of wear, and badging (the SAC badge stood out OK, but it was hard to spot the other ranking, which was worn on different parts of the body))- and my all-civvy friends were perplexed when told that they were RAF, not Army. When I asked the guys about the proposed new badge, they all thought it a good idea - constantly p****d off with being thought of as Army.

I no longer wear the uniform, but I'm with Impiger - it seems a reasonable way of promoting a better public image. In these days, that's not a bad thing! Oh, and why the need to bin working blue Mr Beagle? Tradition and pride gone out the window?

Sorry for being old - mine's a pint of Bods.

[Maple 01]

stonecutter,

Didn't realise it was a bite - thought it was more banter - DPM's for dieing in, not ironing etc. But seriously, got mistaken twice for a pongo this week :O - either the Army's dress standard is lower than you suspect or the blue beret with 'RAF' on and the few extra ponds round the middle didn't give the game away to the average punter

We usually wear DPM (other than 'in the field' - and since when is there a need for ironing boards in a combat zone?) when doing SLJs that might get our nice blues messy so they are looked on more as workmen's overalls other that somthing to be ponced up for a parade

How about subdued Albatross/Eagles?

Would stop Army elements asking when I last shaved/bulled(???!) my boots/got my hair cut :cool:

-Nick

[Prijon]

I've got to agree with BEagle on this one. Having been in jobs that have required to wear both blues and CS95 there can only be one winner. Stick us all in CS95, save a load of money (a popular theme nowadays) and let us all only have to worry about ironing stuff once a week (if that!).... although berets will need to be ironed more often than that to perfect the helicopter-landing-pad look.

Oh...and they can ram the patches, too! You're not going to be able to read what is says until you're within 10 cm range (or is my eyesight going?) or are they going to be bright orange so that the puplic notice and we make wonderful targets the rest of the time?!

[rej]

Prijon

Stick us all in CS95, save a load of money (a popular theme nowadays)

I can't see how putting us all in CS95 would be a money saver. The troops get their no 2's replaced free of charge - I'm damn sure that a blue shirt is considerably cheaper than a CS95 shirt, same for trousers etc. Yes the CS95 issue would probably last longer (initially ... please read on) but are you going to get 5 shirts etc?

All that would happen is a rapid degradation of the 'quality' of the CS95 to save money. We have all seen the loss of quality in the fabric used to make our 'blues' over the years - can we really risk this happening to kit that the lads have to wear to go into into some pretty *hitty theatres.

[Prijon]

rej,

it doesn't matter that the troops get No2s free - the RAF/MOD still have to pay for them - the manufacturers don't give them to us gratis. So the money that's saved by not having to buy that stuff can be spent on ensuring that we continue to get decent CS95. Or they save that money. Anyway, CS95 is sort of hard-wearing kit; you won't have to replace much if you're just in Garrison, and if you're out in the field, well, no change from what it's like now. My 2 pairs of desert CS95 lasted fine in some rather "austere" conditions last year.

I would write to my local MP asking him to support my idea, but he's kind of upset that we're shutting the Station.... ;-)

[DuckDodgers]

Interesting to note that the Army is going back to wearing light weights and shirts/jumpers with stable belt whilst in garrison due to the COST of CS95.......

[Grimweasel]

Thats always been the case anyway. Its just that local commanders let us wear C95 throughout! Unless this is something new. I'd say that denims were more expensive due to better quaility fabric?

[norvenmunky]

I hope these badges are fireproof!

[insty66]

How is it that so many in the RAF complain about lack of recognition and in the next breath demand to wear CS95? I don't follow that line of thinking.:hmm:
What I would like is a clear, distinctive Royal Air Force uniform, that sets us quite apart from our sister services and doesn't make me look like a security guard/ RAC man.
CS 95 should be for Ops and CCS type stuff not everyday low maintenance apparel.
Whilst I'm on the go, why not a set of wings or brevet for the shirt and restrict flying clothing for flying? after all you shouldn't see people overalls/denims/dustcoats/chefs gear (sorry don't know correct name) and if you do you should put them right:ok:

I bet that either kills the thread or prompts massive excuses about time spent getting changed etc etc for those see above.:E

did I tell you I'm on leave tomorrow? :ok: :} :D

[allan907]

How's about designing a blue-ish uniform; hard wearing that can be used for combat situations and normal day to day wear; shortish jacket so that it doesn't get in the way of webbing or get caught in machinery; couple of generous breast pockets; perhaps an eagle on the shoulders above the airman rank insignia attached to the sleeve (officers on epaulettes). Could be made of different materials if a rank differentiation needed.

Oh, you could also call it a "Battle Dress"

[Spotting Bad Guys]

I prefer CS95 over blues any day of the week - far more practical and looks a lot more 'military' (whatever that might be these days) than the RAC uniform we currently have to put up with.

But - whatever we do, we have to avoid the latest initiative from our USAF cousins....http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=231


SBG:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

Mmm - nice? Err, no.

Looks like some Milletts Marauder - AWFUL!

[allan907]

But BEagle it will make one a very difficult target if you are caught out in any blue speckly terrain. And you might scoff but that is just the kind of environment on Planet Zzarg.

[JessTheDog]

I found out something interesting today....

For those of us with name patches on the right side of our CS95, we are to remove these and await further direction. The Dress Policy Committee has not reached a decision as to what will be done with any name patches! So the right side really does not know what the left side is doing!!! This also speaks volumes about the lateral thinking powers of these guys - if the right side is in use, how many other sides do we have?

...or maybe they are deliberating upon the prospect of allowing those of us with brevets to display them, as so many seem to do already, perhaps in anticipation of such a ruling! A lump of sugar to make all those bitter pills easier to swallow!

...maybe there is a Gp Capt (CS 95), with an SO1 (Top Half) who has a SO2 (Left) and a SO2 (Right) who are not talking!

[BEagle]

The"Dress Policy Committee".......

What a wonderfully anachronistic title. Are these the same PONTIs whose sole contribution to morale before GW2 was to ban squadron cummerbunds at Dining-In Nights? Quelle bunch de wanqueures!

My GW1 deserts had (still have) wings on left tit, name on right, rank slides on epaulettes. Name tape knocked up by some Filipino swing needle driving mate in a Riyadh souk about 13 years ago.....

No-one seemed to object to that rig in Incirlik or D**** G*****! Even when worn with a tan spam t-shirt and cheap-as-chips Chinese desert wellies from the Bahrain souk! Mind you, the Dress Policy Committee probably wouldn't have approved - mais ne confuse moi pas avec quelqu'un qui donne un merde!

[Vortex_Generator]

I see it has now been anounced that theRAF Regt are to get 5 "Royal Air Force" patches (3 for lightweight jkt, 2 for field jkt), whilst the rest of us will only get 3. As one who is not regt but wears CS95 all the time and therefore have the same scaling as the regt , it seems I am only to be recognised as RAF for two thirds of the time. Of course, there is no provision to provide any for desert DPM, which is what most people involved in joint service ops are wearing. So another great idea, well thought through and carefully implemented.

[Flt Lt Spry]

In that case, to avoid duplication, Rock Apes should trim their mudguards to read "REGIMENT" as the "RAF" part is now obvious.

V-G: our friendly stacker pushed out a ditty claiming that desert tapes are not required as the Gulf is an Operational theatre and wearing identity tapes would instantly turn the "Big 6" into the "Big 7"! And, before you ask, Operational detachments in temperate zones require the identity patch to be removed; suggest you don't iron over the top of it too hard...

[Vortex_Generator]

Ah, so two sets for normal daily wear and one set kept aside for ops!!!!
Will we have to remove them all for OPERATION Fresco?

[Flt Lt Spry]

On the contrary - Op Fresco requires an extra identity patch to be sewn onto the back of shirts/jackets which, in extra large letters, says "RAF (not army)".

[DummyRun]

Does anyone wear CS95 (green) these days, have lived in dessies for the last couple of years (at least!), will we get sandy coloured badges too? They'll probably bring back round neck woolly-pullies next!!!!!

Load moving.............

[November4]

From todays Currant Bun....


Royal Air Farce badges

By JOHN KAY
THE RAF is splashing out £1.5million on new uniform badges — to stop servicemen being confused with RAC breakdown crews.

Three patches bearing a new logo are to be sewn on the pullovers and shirts of 40,000 personnel.

Staff will also be issued with rucksacks carrying the new badge. But the makeover has caused uproar at a time when the service faces cutbacks of 7,500 men to save cash.

Earlier this month, The Sun revealed the RAF was spending £5million on ceremonial uniforms which are virtually the same as the old outfits.

The new badges were ordered after research revealed RAF personnel were being mistaken for ambulance crews and RAC teams.

RAC patrolmen used to wear similar blue uniforms but they were phased out TEN YEARS AGO.

They now wear orange outfits. Ambulancemen have different GREEN uniforms. One pilot said sarcastically: “It is great to know we can find money for these initiatives in a time of cutbacks.”

Maj Gen Ken Perkins, The Sun’s military adviser, added: “There is insufficient cash for essential equipment yet some bureaucrat squanders finance on items which have no effect on fighting efficiency.”

The Ministry of Defence told The Sun: “The general public and the media have begun to confuse soldiers, sailors, and airmen with one another, and with other uniformed professions. This does not have a good effect on morale.”


http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004401203,00.html

Also includes a photo to show how difficult it is to tell the difference between the RAC, Ambulance and RAF....

[JessTheDog]

There was a similar article in the Mail on Sunday about a shortage of rank slides, although it appeared that the article drew too heavily on a letter of complaint from a CT. The MoS article claimed that officer rank slides were impossible to get hold of, although how it can be difficult to turn a piece (or multiple pieces) of ribbon into a rank slide is beyond me - I've even seen staples used! I have heard grumbles (from SNCOs mainly) about the new slides so the story has some grounding in reality - might be time to sell my old slides on Ebay!

However, it is the hallmark of a failing organisation to attempt to rebrand itself by throwing money at fripperies such as insignia and logos - look at Consignia and every other former public service that has gone down the toilet! Alas, we are following suit!