Engineer sucked into 737-700 engine

[flash8]

3.44am Tuesday morning
Engineer sucked into an Air Astana 737-700 turbine
Sheremetyevo-2 Moscow
My condolences - a sad event.

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/07/15/012.html

[Shorty Final]

Again the low slung engines of the 737 confirm why they are unfondly known as meat grinders. :(
Poor chap, a terrible fate.

How often do 737 drivers here find the holds being opened by ground handlers before the strobes have been switched off?

[Bearcat]

loaders opening the holds early happens less often. i remember years ago an engineer lost his arm in palma having being sucked in by a LX 732 doing a run up. The 732s have a bad reputation as a meat grinder. Any one seen discovery channel where a chap is sucked into an intruder on a ships deck and and lived ....amazing

[Koyo]

Poor guy and he's only 26 (only 3 years older than me).

[dartlylou]

I have never flown a 737, but how on earth can this happen?????????? I flew C130's in Africa and STILL never saw a fatality in this way.

[eal401]

dartlylou, my first thought would be carelessness on the part of the individual. After all, there are strict rules regarding approaching an aircraft as we all know.

However, there is not enough information to make a proper judgement, plus it isn't our job to do so.

Though given the location of the incident, nationality of the deceased and nationality of the airline involved, I can see how things might develop.

[Well thats Me]

dartlylou

An extremely sad occurrence and we will obviously not know exactly what happened until an official report is published.

Regarding your post though,the 737 engines on the later series are very quiet and produce a different thrust profile to the early low bypass ( almost straight jet ) series engines,compound that with the fact the guy was probably wearing ear defenders at the time and it was in darkness at about 4am.

Further the inlet velocity on these high bypass engines follows the square law formula very well,mainly i believe because of the area of the intakes,that all means at 5 metres he may have felt ok but at 4 it could have been irreversible ( again depending on the thrust applied ).

Like some of the posts here i have often wondered how many of the loaders for these aircraft have avoided an accident,regardless of that i can only hope this incident was mercifully quick.

[EGAC_Ramper]

Sad occurrance indeed and one I do not wish to even think about.The biggest engines we get at EGAC are A321 IAE engines and I always like to stay outside the 3m warning painted on their sides whilst oing a pushback.
Condolences must go out to the family.:(


Regards

[BUMPFF]

In the bad old days, ground engineers (or anyone else involved with aircraft movements) were taught how to approach a parked aircraft. In the helter-skelter environment of today's operating conditions such training is even more vital for survival, but it's seldom given. However, engine danger areas are clearly set out in Flight Ops, Engineering and Ground Handling manuals and they are prominently displayed on engine cowlings.

Survival Rule 1: If engines are running, stay clear.

[unablereqnavperf]

A very sad but regretablly very common occurance and engineers are exposed to this danger often as part of their jobs. Especially after maintenance when a leak check is required most companies have a restraint system available but often this is not used I've seen many engineers carrying out leak checks with out this equipment due to time pressure placed on them!

Please don't read this as speculation in this very sad case mu thoughts are with the fellows family!

Seem to remember a case in the 80's at British Aerospace when an engineer was sucked into a 146 didn't those things had enough pull to do that just goes to show how dangerous jet engines can be!

[HOVIS]

Many years ago a BCal 747 taxied before awaiting clearance from the two engineers carrying out the pushback. The two engineers had to dive to the ground and hang on to each other as the no.2 engine passed over their heads!
No fault of their own, they were severly shaken, however the 747 capt was, I believe dismissed.

Some years later a colleague of mine was almost run over by the left prop of an ATP, again the Captain failed to wait for the all clear from the ground engineer before taxying.

There are many ways to get sucked into an engine. The details of this 737 case will (I hope) be a warning to us all! :sad:

[Notso Fantastic]

The old 737-200 has large stator vanes in front of the fan. All other models of 737 don't, they just have the fan inside the cowling, so once getting sucked in, there is nothing to hang onto to stop you. Engineers have survived a 'close encounter' with a -200 Pratt & Whitney engine because you could hang on long enough at low power pushing yourself out from the stator vanes until someone shut down. Horrible way to go, but mercifully instant.

[Tommyinyork]

How far do you have to go near the engine to be sucked in, i mean just goes to show how dangerous a plane can be.
737 engines are quite small so god knows what it would of been like if it was a 777 or 747.

[Notso Fantastic]

I think within about 5 metres at idle power 180 degrees around the front of the engine, you are in trouble. The danger is if you lean or fall into the airflow, you get influenced by the pull, so you lose your balance immediately and it just gets worse. There is some video somewhere of someone having a close encounter with a BAe146.

[spekesoftly]

How far do you have to go near the engine to be sucked in

Several answers also on this earlier thread - How close would you have to stand (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94963&highlight=146)

[Port Strobe]

Bearcat, I have seen the clip you refer to, I believe his helmet caused the fan blades to disintegrate so it was that which saved him, but he did have some sort of head injuries, just not too severe. It appears to be evidence of what people have been saying on this and related threads, there can literally be inches between apparent safety and being sucked in since he disappeared down the engine in the blink of an eye. I wonder how close some people are willing to get to these things when I see ground crews waiting to chock aicraft, it makes me feel edgy being so close to it since the first time you misjudge it is usually the last as well.

[Bus429]

Very sad event.
Another point to consider is ear defenders themselves. Wearing them no doubt provides aural protection. However, from a personal perspective, they create a feeling of detachment from events around one; it is like being a spectator rather than a participant.

[speed freek]

Indeed, a very sad piece of news. For those of you wondering about the pull of a trent 800 or equivalent, wait for a good shower. Even at gorund idle you can see the water off the ground get sucked in. Looks a bit like water spouts. I've seen this a couple of times, and really makes you think.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Extremely sad occurence.
Out of interest, next time you see a 737-500 pushback carried out using a traditional tug and tow bar, look how close the engines are to the push back operative walking beside the nose of the aircraft. I've done it, and it's very easy to get too close to the intakes.

[slingsby]

The engineer was on pushback duty, the aircraft had engines running. As the aircraft was pushed back he was forward of the tug as the aircraft was turned, this therefore seriously reduced safety distance between himself and the intake. The pushback took the form of a maximum turn angle, the engineer remained in his forward walking position, the engine became too close and the tradegy occurred. This is from a colleague in 4L.

[Irish Steve]

Very Very sad.

There are times when I wonder how there's not been accidents of this nature at DUB, where I was working until recently. All sorts of reasons, including staff that are not really aware of the risks, people that do things they should not, even things like an aircraft on an ajacent stand ground running an engine.

I had a huge row a few months back with FLS, they did a ground run on an A330 on stand 35 while we were working on the next door stand offloading a 767 forward hold. To say that there's not a lot of space between the stands at DUB is putting it mildly, and to then have to be concerned about an engine being run on stand, with no warning given to us that they were going to do so, was not fun!

The big problem is that in the summer especially, there are significant numbers of people on the ramp with no aviation background, and very little real knowledge of the dangers that are going on around them, and it's not the easiest job in the world to be the lead agent on the flight when there's a shortage of experience, so the lead is operating the high loader, and the new people are all at ramp level. As in the case I've mentioned, a 330 at ground idle only a very short distance away was seriously pucker making, as to communicate with people on the ground in that situation is impossible.

As someone else has mentioned, headsets on 737-500 are a concern, as the engines are so far forward relative to the nose, and a tight turn, with a momentary lapse of concentration, and it's all gone wrong.

Even more difficult is the scenario where an air start is being used, then they ( usually inappropriately) start the second engine during the push, which requires power levels above ground idle on the other engine, which again puts the staff around the aircraft at risk.

Hopefully, things will be changed to try to prevent another accident of this nature.

[DUBXH]

Irish Steve...

Judging by the Aircraft you were offloading your a Servisair head in DUB? Just thinking back but was there not a recent event of some S/Air boyo losing some limb on a passenger prop?

I think we all in DUB know of the Arm lost by the S/air cargo agent many years ago but I agree with you fully... There is an unacceptably high level of inexperience on the ramp of DUB during the busy summer months... Minimum training but just about enough to cover the backsides of managment in the event of a disaster.


My prayers go out to the family of that young man..

[hobie]

you would be amazed by some of the background information that often comes to the surface in Rotating machinery accidents ..... girl friend trouble ..... wife trouble .... even boyfriend trouble ....... a modern jet engine beside you and your mind in another place, is not a good combination

to be fair to Dublin, I would guess they have something like 400 heavy transport in/out movements on a busy day??? or say one hundred and fifty thousand a year (rate) and a great deal of them get away without a stain on them! ......

[Fangio]

DUBXH, The S/Air ramp guy was killed by the prop of a HS748.
at DUB. The AAIB blamed the lighting on the ramp

[Daifly]

Awful way to go. I'd heard that the aircraft was starting on stand and he'd gone in to get the chocks, but the pushback story sounds more feasible, although my info was from the guy's colleagues who were handling us later in the day.

The rather intriguing bit is that the aircraft was (and I have to add an "alledgedly" here) returned to service 6 hours later....

[BTwice]

Maybe it is just SVO,

How many times did I have to stop taxiing while behind the follow-me car, just to let pass some guys ahead who just finished push back of another A/C(or whatever) and were returning to the gate.And the follow-me did not even noticed they were in between.

My condollences to the family.

[bacardi walla]

Very sad event.

reminds me of an incident (or near incident) I saw when in Port Harcourt an OKADA 1-11 started taxiing out with the baggage handler still trying to close the rear hold door..... he eventually closed it, some 15 yards later, then threw himself onto the centreline while the a/c carried on.......he came within inches of not going home for dinner that afternoon.

The ramp is a hazardous environment.........people, be safe :suspect:

[toon]

Terrible, does make me wonder when i taxi around corfu ramp, with speros and his little fire extinguisher, how 'aware' they are of the inakes, having said that here in UK loaders seem only to quick to be standing right beside the A/C when pulling on stand.

[Idunno]

IrishSteve, therehave been several incidents at Dublin which you may already know of.

A few years ago a Servisair dispatcher was killed by the prop of a BACE ATP. It was Christmas eve. Awful.

Ryanair had an engineer sucked into the intake of a 737-200 during ground runs. Apparently they were under time pressure due night ban. The engineer lost his arm, Ryanair were given a small fine as I remember.

An Air Corse 747 arrived on stand (I think it was 33) with a spare engine to rescue one of its sister ships grounded in DUB. While pulling onto stand the crew applied a welly load of power and the winscreen of their dispatchers car was sucked out of its frame and straight down the throat of the no.3 engine. Game over.

The ramp around the Carousel/Cul De Sac at Dublin is always littered with vehicles and ULDs. Its a nightmare for taxiing, but nothing gets done. The 'B' Stands have often a mix of jets and props with pax walking to/from gates through yet more mazes of vehicles and towbars etc...its a wonder one hasn't yet been killed by a car when you see how some careen around the corner right into their path.

Ramps are dangerous places. You need eyes in the back of your head...Dublin is one of the worst.

[Port Strobe]

Autoglide, I have noticed the proximity of the pushback team and the engines before, it does seem fairly close but I'm looking on from a distance of around 30 yards usually. I'll be dealing with 2 737-500's tomorrow (or today to be absolutely correct), I'll keep an eye on it if I've time, the pushback procedure at Glasgow Stand 1 requires 2 turns, although I'm not sure how close to the max angle they are since I'm not on the pushback team myself. I think this incident serves to reinforce the danger of working near such powerful pieces of equipment, sadly someone has paid a heavy price in doing so.

[GlueBall]

I was under the assumption that it would take more than idle power on those small CFM/IAE engines to be swept off one's feet. :{

[Hay Ewe]

I beleive that to do full engine runs a B777 that it needs to be fully loaded with fuel other wise it jumps around too much. Thats the power of the big engines.

With those fitted to the 737NG I beileve that the saftey distance is 2 Meters? at idle power and 5 meters at full take off power.


Hay Ewe - KEEP OUT OF THE WAY!!!!

[MR BIGGLES]

very sad news, i feel for the chaps family.

My friend, an ex hatfield fitter on the 146 told me of an incident that happened back in 1989 to 1990.
it was mid morning when engine tests were being done on the 146 and a test engineer was nearby, the chap was about 30 years of age at the time and he was wearing a flourecent anorake, the engines started to rise in power and the chaps anorake ballooned with air and lifted him off the ground and witnesses said that he seemed to hover in the air for a split second and then suddenly flew through the air and straight through the engine.
The workers in the factory heard an almighty bang (knowing that the engines were being tested) and went to investigate because my friend tells me that it was very rare to have problems on this engine type, but when my friend came out of the building he new it was worse than that as he saw spray coming out of the engine.
I was told that the only part of the chap left was from his waist down.
I do believe that guards were ment to be fitted to the engines before testing, but on this occasion there was none.

[TURIN]

With those fitted to the 737NG I beileve that the saftey distance is 2 Meters? at idle power and 5 meters at full take off power.

You must be insane to stand as close as 2M to a running engine intake.

I wouldn't stand that close to a Jetex50!!

[hobie]

"With those fitted to the 737NG, I believe that the saftey distance is 2 Metres? at idle power and 5 metres at full take off power."

2 metres and 5 metres? .... are you sure about that? ..... are you really, really sure? :( :( :(

[Irish Steve]

Yes, I was working for SA at DUB until a couple of months ago, then they got very upset about me helping a Seneca to get away, he needed external power to start it, so the only option was jump leads, which was no hassle as I'm rated on the aircraft, and flown it for close on 50 hours, and was trained to do external starts to make sure I never got stuck in some out of the way grass strip type location. SA didn't agree, so I got hit with a Gross misconduct rap.

As for DUB, there have been several posts about the accidents there, so I don't need to expand further on them.

I guess my main concern is that all across handling, standards are slipping, and being eroded, and it can only be a matter of time before a passenger is hurt as a result of some of the things that have been mentioned in other messages. Mixing passengers, loading equipment, bin loaded aircraft, and walk out to the aircraft is a recipie for a serious accident before too long. In some respects, while I enjoyed the job I was doing, and I think I did it very well, I'm not sorry to be out of the loop of trying to be responsible for people and events that too often were not really in my control.

[Echo Zulu Yankee]

Guys,

With the power-plants fitted to the NG I would, personally, prefer all ground handling staff to keep at LEAST 5 meters away while they are running. I know, and I am sure that a lot of pilots out there will echo this, that I would be far happier to have a few minutes delay because the ground staff were following proper safety procedures than see some guy loose a limb or worse.

I will ALWAYS assume that the ground staff have had full training to do their duties around my aircraft just as I had to go through training to do my duties. If there are ground staff out there that think they haven't then why has it not been raised through their line manager?

Just my 2p worth.

EzY

[b767jetmec]

Had a situation not long ago. One of my fellow co-workers was doing a manual engine start on a B767 fitted with PW4060 engines. As the signal was given to close the start valve, for some reason the pilot throttled up. It was enough to start draging him forward towards the intake. Fortunately he had the presents of mind to grab onto the rear edge of the reverser cowl. He was literally swept off his feet. Fortunately, his partner on the headset told the crew to shutdown, not just throttle back. This I believe saved his life. I don`t know how long he would have been able to hold on.

We work in a dangerous enviroment, and we sometimes become complacent. My deepest regrets for the family.

[whats_it_doing_now?]

The Air Astana engineer stepped forward to stop some FOD being sucked into the engine when the incident occured during an engine run.

The aircraft wasn't back in service within a few hours as someone suggested, it needed an engine change.

[Echo Zulu Yankee]

whats_it_doing_now?

If that is the case it certainly sounds like it was one of those situations that could probably not have been foreseen. It is a natural reaction to step forward to pick something up if you see it hurtling towards a very expensive jet engine.

A very unfortunate, sad, set of events. My sincere regrets to the family and friends/colleagues of all envolved.

EzY

[rampman]

my condollences to the mans family

read a initinal report the other day ... it says it was raining and there was not much light on the ramp. the plane was a 737-500 it has been inpounded untill further notice whilst the A.A.I.B investigate. the other engieners who were doing the engien run were all arested.

the horiffic thing about it all is that it was all caught on C.C.T.V. It's all very sad news for all involved and i hope people take note about what has happend. its a very dangerous place on the ramp.


as for myself i never go past the nose wheel on any aircraft whilst on the push back you need to be thinking and be aware of what is going on around you all the time

[internet]

this is an unfortunate event, i feel sorry for the family of the deceased and the techs that had to clean up the result.

all these sort of events remind me to be vigilant and respectful of the power that is so close to us every day.

how many times i have been underneath these engines at idle looking for fluid leaks and seeing a vortex and water spout not 2 metres in front of me!!!

on pushback, i make it a point of getting into the cab of the tug with the driver, keeping me out of the way,

our lives are not expendable, we must learn from this.

:(