B777 Door Unlock After Landing.

[mutt]

Writing a letter justifying how a cabin door went from "Flight" to "Park" after landing without a physical action by the concerned FA.

She is getting blamed for unlocking the door prior to the assigned command. Swears she didn’t do it.

Have an idea that it was an action by a disgruntled admirer who was a crew member.

Can anyone tell me if the B777 door system has a design fault which releases the door lock, or can anyone offer me a possible means of this happening without human intervention?

Thanks.

Mutt.

[flyblue]

That surely is weird. I flew the 777 for a while but never witnessed or heard of a door disarmed by itself (nor in any other aircraft that I've flown). I would go for the human intervention, malicious or not. But then, why should she disarm a door prior to arrival? :confused: It doesn't make sense, also taking into consideration that she knew she would have to disarm it (and cross check) in the presence of another CC. And she must have armed it before T/O otherwise it would have been noticed while cross-checking.
Exactly at what time of the flight did they realise the door was disarmed?

[flybywire]

I flew on the 777 for a year and nothing like that ever happened on any of my flights!!!

It is true that the arming/disarming lever doesn't have any pin (like the 757 for example) to stop it from sliding, but it is actually a big handle (with a plastic guard) that is actually quite stiff! Think of this: that movoment makes a BIG slide engage to the girt bar situated at the bottom of the door....it takes a bit of effort and I find it difficult to believe that it actually moved itself!!

The only thing that could have happened is that she didn't arm it in the first place, but then two things come to my mind:

1) A cabin crew would have cross checked, and she would have checked the arming lever in the red zone AND the two yellow flags at the bottom of the door. If the slide hadn't been armed, but the handle in an ambiguous position, the yellow flags wouldn't have been displayed.

2) If I remember the correct thing (long time since my last flight on the 777) on the new EICAS system in the cockpit you can actually see whether the door is armed or not. I find it difficult to believe that the pilots didn't notice that. Besides, an investigation might give the answer if needed.

In any case, the cross-checking cabin crew would have been to blame as well.
I am honestly puzzled by this, I have never heard anything of this kind before!!!
If she had actually rejected that individual I can only empathise with her!!!!!!!! ;)

FBW:)

[Psr777]

Used to fly the "cripple seven"


I am pretty sure that the 777 has a facility of automatically locking the door when the aircraft reaches a certain speed.

I am also sure that any significant impact upon landing can adjust the door locking mechanism.

I may well be wrong, but why not ask the question in a different forum?

Hope all goes well.

:D

[mutt]

Thanks for the responses. I guess this girl has a visit to the legal department ahead of her!

Cheers

Mutt.

[flystarboy]

are we talking about door unlock or door disarm??

The door has a speed lock which engages at about 80 knots ground speed so prevents the "self loading Freight" from actually opening the door.
The Flight crew do not have any indication if a door is armed or disarmed. The only signs they have are if the door is opened or closed. The cabin crew also have this facilitiy on the various "touch screens " by the door areas.
I think it would be highly unlikely for a B777 door to disarm itself even after the heaviest landing.



Sounds like Human intervention could be the ansa...

[flybywire]

I haven't myself understood if we're talking about disarming the slide or unlocking the door itself!
I knew the door has a speed lock which engages at about 80 knots ground speed so prevents the "self loading Freight" from actually opening the door. but I don't see how a cabin crew could disarm this system????

Thank you flystarboy, I wasn't sure about the eicas indication, I must have confused it with the airbus-it often happens when you get trained on one million different aeroplanes!!! I apologise.

I am still very puzzled by this whole matter!! What happened in the end?

FBW:)

[sammyhostie3]

I dont about the 777, but on the A330 there is an FAP above the C/s's jumpseat which has a visible ECAM check, and there is also one in the f/deck.

This shows the status of lots of the cabin functions, including the status of the doors:- closed/open/armed/disarmed.


Surely the 777 has a similar technology?

[typhoonpilot]

Actually flystarboy the 777 flight crew do have an indication of whether or not the doors are armed. If you take a quick look at the door synoptic, the M( white ) in the door means it is manual and the A ( green ) means it is armed. I have on occasion seen the door go from armed to manual and back to armed after landing. I suffer a serious lack of curiosity and severe short term memory loss though so I usually don't ask why it happened. :p

Typhoonpilot

[Human Factor]

I have on occasion seen the door go from armed to manual and back to armed after landing.

Always wondered why that happens. There is a EICAS indication showing DOORS AUTO/MANUAL as appropriate when the aircraft is on the ground but I can't see any way in which a door could disarm itself (ie. the arming lever moving).

[flybywire]

Now guys my memory isn't that good after having worked on 6 different planes and different series in less than two years!!
I remember the touchscreens at door L1 L2 and R4 on the -200 series have a function to check the doors (and mute specific cabin bells....BLISS!:E) etc and I vaguely remember the EICAS has the same function, but while I am sure that pilots can see whether doors are locked and armed on the airbus ECAM, this is not possible on the EICAS of older Boeings (just an indication of open/locked). I honestly thought you could though on the new EICAS on the 777, but as I said, it's been a long time and I've flown on 5 different planes after that.

However what I still cannot understand is that Mutt talked about "unlocking" the door. That makes me think of the speed lock that engages when you reach a certain speed. But how could she unlock it herself???
Then he uses the words "flight" to "park" and "before the command" so that makes me think of the arming/disarming procedure. I simply cannot understand how a big and modern door like the 777 can disarm itself! As I said before, if this had been the case the slide wasn't armed properly at the beginning and consequently not properly cross-checked (some ppl don't particualrly fancy going down on their knees to check the yellow flags).

If this all was the idea of a childish, rejected, bitter boy who organized this to get back at her, then I am more than willing to lend her my scissors!!!!!!!!! :E
;)

FBW:)

**10 minutes to landing**

[flystarboy]

Typhoon pilot thanx for your info but I really have to question that if there is a system on the 777 to check if doors are "auto" or "manual" why do we still have to pass the doors to manual checks to the flt crew when pulling onto stand?

Now some may say we do that to be consistent with all the other aircraft types within a company that do not have an "auto" or "manual" indication on the flight deck.

As a matter of interest I will look into this to satisfy my own curiosity.

Perhaps the type of 777 you fly may have a different "info" system on board.. Is that possible?

Thinking back to my experiences of aircraft types I believe no older Boeings have Door mode selection indication on the flight crew info screens , however Airbus do.

Need to investigate!!

MMM now there is a project for my base days off!!!

[flyblue]

The B777 does have the "armed" indication on the Multi Purpose Display on the F/D.

[flybywire]

The B777 does have the "armed" indication on the Multi Purpose Display on the F/D.

Correct flyblue. I have just checked on the Boeing 777 systems manual. In the door page on the EICAS there's an indication of door unlocked/locked/armed.

My memory wasn't that bad after all ;)

God how I miss that plane :{

[typhoonpilot]

flystarboy:

.why do we still have to pass the doors to manual checks to the flt crew when pulling onto stand?

I can't speak for your airline's procedures. At my airline no such procedure exists on the 777. We simply check to make sure the doors are manual before turning the seat belt sign off.

As far as I know the door synoptic and EICAS messages are the same for all models of 777.

TP

[cheeryguy]

Typhoon pilot thanx for your info but I really have to question that if there is a system on the 777 to check if doors are "auto" or "manual" why do we still have to pass the doors to manual checks to the flt crew when pulling onto stand?

with BA there is no requirement to confirm doors to manual on the 777.

[mutt]

I sincerely apologise for starting this topic and not following up on it. I was asked to write a letter on behalf of this FA, once i did that i forgot about the subject! She submitted it and didnt get invited to Legal Affairs, so i guess that the BS i wrote worked!

Once again, thank you for your inputs.

Mutt.

[SIZE=1]Now crawling back to my usual forums.... :)[/SIZE=1]