View Full Version : BA NCW LHR-YYZ-LHR Jun/Jul 2004

13th Jul 2004, 21:39

I have posted a trip report in BA Club World to Toronto( 747-400 upper deck) and comparisons with VS's UCS in this file;


No complaints about the cabin crew just a few observations about the BA NCW product.



14th Jul 2004, 10:56
Your post is very detailed and interesting, but the comparison has a slight flaw in that VS's (new) Upper Class is sold/advertised as a first class product and therefore you should have compared it to BA's FIRST. Looking at your 'summary of differences', many are provided at BA, but exclusively for FIRST paxs.
The recurring issue with many of BA's CW passengers is that they find it difficult to accept that they not a first class pax and therefore are NOT entitled to certain 'luxuries'. A first class pax is easily discernible from a business class passenger in that the latter can be overly demanding while the former takes luxury in their stride and will generally demand nothing!
I suppose at the end of the day, it does boil down to prestige and those that can genuinely afford to pay full fare first class will probably do so with BA because of the exclusivity it offers while VS can offer a pseudo-first class to cater for the wannabe first class business traveller......I think they call it clever marketing........

Pax Vobiscum
14th Jul 2004, 14:52
Upper class is Virgin's 'first class' product, but the pricing is comparable to BA Club class - eg 3500 London-New York return, while BA First is 6600. So TBS's comparison is very valid (and useful) since the choice for most travellers is between BA Club and Virgin Upper (I know which one I'd pick).

It is, by the way, increasingly tricky for 4-class airlines to keep a gap between 1st and Club (to justify the 100% premium for 1st class - similar comments apply to Club and WT+) while competing with the Virgin offering. See Air New Zealand merges first and business classes (http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11250-1163652,00.html) - and I bet they won't be the last!

Final 3 Greens
16th Jul 2004, 19:38

UC is not comparable to BA First, because the pricing creates less exclusivity, which is one of the reasons peeps pay 6.6k to fly to JFK.

It may well be a better deal for the business class pax, but that is not the same argument .

I agree with Jerry Stinger, that having been fortunate enough to travel in each cabin, First is a very tranquil and quiet environment, with people who are pretty undemanding.

The seats in First are also in a completely different class to NCW, opulent luxury springs to mind.


Pax Vobiscum
18th Jul 2004, 12:12
Fair enough, F3G, but most of us think we're doing well if we can swing the cost of a Club fare out of our companies/clients. If you've got a budget of 4k to cross the pond, the choice is likely to be between Club and Upper, with their equal lack of (shudder) exclusivity, and I really can't believe anyone would argue that Club provides a better alternative (though I expect someone will prove me wrong ...).

I've enjoyed travelling in First when I've been lucky enough to get it, but I couldn't justify it (to myself or my clients) as value for money. Of course, if it's really exclusivity you're after, a bizjet is the only way to go :D.

Final 3 Greens
18th Jul 2004, 13:23

You and I are probably not going to give a hoot about the exclusivity that those who travel BA First value and who are prepared to pay for this.

I wouldn't try to justify First to a client either (nor C class around Europe for that matter), but I was fortunate to have it offered a couple of times and certainly wasn't going to say no!