Taking photos "airside"

[shuttlebus]

All,

Could somebody please clarify the situation regarding taking photos "airside".

In the past, I have had absolutely no problem taking photos of planes from "airside" at LHR, SOU etc whilst in the terminal (The end of T1 at LHR near Gates 10 & 12 being a favourite). However, last week after flying back from SOu to BHD with FlyBE, I got yelled at for taking a photo of the aircraft on the ramp after de-planing!

Now, I could understand if I had chosen to stand somewhere dangerous, but I was just about to go inside the terminal and was in a 'safe' location. Therfore, I can only assume that the issue concerend me taking photos airside?

If it is simply 'Health & Safety', then I will bow out graciously, as I work in an industry driven by H&S.

Any clarifications on the rules would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Shuttlebus

P.S. I hope this is the best forum for this question....

[Avman]

More often than not it comes down to morons who, bored out of their tiny little brains, just want to feel important and powerful. The paranoia slowly enveloping the UK breeds these imbeciles. You only have to read the many threads here on PPRuNe on how even commercial airline pilots are treated by these brainless job's worth. I was told by some spotty young airport NCP parking attendant that I was not allowed to look at aeroplanes with binnoculars sitting in my own car - and I work in ATC!!! It's bad enough in parts of the USA, but the UK is slowly getting worse.

[fesmokie]

Geez... Ive never had a problem taking pics in the USA. I have had the odd run in with authorities in the Middle East and parts of Africa.:hmm:

[Ranger 1]

where I work its not a problem, if you are a passenger & as long as you don't use flash within the fuelling zone, & stick with the flow of pax, (sometimes I will take their photos for them) as regards the the press or anyone who wants take them for commercial reasons, they have to go through the Airport Authority, this will then usually involve a fee. different fees apply for Apron shots & photos taken on the airfield to cover transport & escort costs. on the whole my place are very good about it.
Photo's are not permitted of any Security staff or within the Search zone,or within Customs.which is strictly enforced.
The Golden rule is if in doubt Check it out ,as some places here in the UK can be a bit sensitive about it.

Cheers :ok:

[witchdoctor]

Agree with Ranger1's comments. Not a problem at our place, in fact one of the ATC lads runs a spotters website and is regularly on the ramp snapping away. Even our occassional military visitors are photo friendly. The AAC recently flew in with 4 Apache Longbows and were more than happy to let a Lufthansa crew member pop across from his a/c and take some snaps.

Lots of folks like to take piccies getting on/off the a/c, and as long as they're being sensible, not a problem as far as I or the crews are concerned.

[aeftutor]

With regards to taking photos at SOU, there is no regulation saying that photography is not permitted airside, in fact similar to what witchdoctor said, we to have staff the regularly rush out with their camera.

It might have had something to do with the place you were standing in as space is very limited and what is perceived by one person as ok might not be by the next, mostly due to either H&S or operational reasons.

Do you know what compartment/department the person, who told you to stop, was from (FlyBe, Aviance, BAA etc..)? I would be interested to know.

Kind regards
aeftutor

[Fox3snapshot]

Security issues have become more of an issue with airfields being an obvious target, some authorties have caught the wave of paranoia and believe that photography, videography and general observations could be construed as intel gathering and pattern observation etc. so unfortunately the average punter keen to film, watch and enjoy avaition may have their day ruined by Big Brother. In an ironic twist it has become easier to film etc. in the Middle East. On arrival to my first post the PA came on Gulf Air with an expilicit warning not to video/photograph landings, airport area or its surrounds.....that is now far from the case.

:ooh:

[locohauled]

Being "yelled at" by anyone is not acceptable unless you were in imminent danger. The surprise element of a shout could cause you to put yourself in a precarious position.

Anyone finding themselves in that position should ask - politely - as to what was causing the problem and to apologise if in the wrong. Don't expect an apology in return though!!

Being yelled at airside while still in the terminal is even more unacceptable - this happened to me at Manchester T2 - while I was taking pics a couple of months ago.

I approached the uniformed woman and asked her name, position and why she was tellig me to stop picture taking. She mumbled something vague about security but declined to give her name (it was on her pass anyway as was the company (handling agent). When pressed she couldn't quote the relevant by-law and declined my invitation to call the airport authority or the police to back up her claims. A note to the airport authority later confirmed that no restrictions are in place - such a move would have been completely stupid bearing in mind the facilities that exist at manchester for photography.

Don't let the b******* get you down!

[pilotwolf]

Had similar problems last year while trying to take pics of our Concorde trip - both at CDG and JFK...

I just took them while groundstaff were busy accosting others!

Don't know how it applies to pax but at LGW there is an MDI relating to photgraphy airside. I can't find it at the moment but from what I recall staff can take photos as long as they have their managers' written permission and the photos aren't used for commercial purposes.

PW

[akerosid]

I was in DUB recently (last Tuesday in fact) and was asked - very politely - by an ICTS chap not to take photos "in this area"; I took that to mean the gate area being used by the DL 777. What a time to tell me to stop - not that this stopped me of course; I just went around the corner.

Aer Rianta, in their limitless wisdom, seem to have struck up a relationship with this company and given my dealings with them at LGW (similar to Locohaul's at MAN), it doesn't bode well.

The worst aspect is not so much the inconvenience it causes to people taking photos, but the concern that people are not thinking. The battle against terrorism is as much an intellectual one as as it one of putting into place new security procedures. When you get morons making up rules as they go along, it does raise the fear that you're getting a less bright kind of person doing security. Was ICTS chosen because they did a better job, or because they were cheaper? I suspect the latter. You can't have security which is not focused on the actual threats and this is what is happening here.

[Oshkosh George]

Aeftutor

I was recently (29th June) stopped from videoing the aircraft on the stands from INSIDE the terminal at SOU,by a guy in a suit,in company with another suit.

Looked official,so I guess there IS a policy.

[Crepello]

It irks me to see the H&S card played so widely. 95% of the time it's nothing to do with safety per se, and it's tantamount to crying wolf.

I recently took a photo of the 744 I was about to board at LAX. When I turned around, I saw an airport cop, he saw me, didn't react. I should probably have checked beforehand though.

I recently heard of staff at UK railway stations forbidding trainspotters (sorry, rail enthusiasts ;) ) taking photos, as this constitutes a "grave threat to security". The world is going mad... :confused:

[sharpshot]

A photographic image is only a record of what the eye sees.

If people are scared of photos, don't afford anyone the view in the first place.

The paranoia in some places is unbelievable. If photos were banned, wouldn't aviation magazines be so boring. I have been stopped photographing an aircraft on the ramp at one airport (because the owner doesn't want anyone to know where he is)
only for photographers to take same aircraft taking off hours later from outside the fence. Are people so naive:confused: Hope they posted that one on airliners.net:ok:

What is the big secret about taking a photo of a civilian aircraft plying its trade with fare paying passengers:=

[locohauled]

Re ICTS - I was at MAN recently when I saw a man wearing an ICTS flouro jacket on the apron carry out a security check on the tug driver and his mate. What are these people on? He was doing sod all else.

[Echo Zulu Yankee]

Of course at Gatwick there are signs everywhere once you are in the terminal past the "fondling stage" saying that no photographs must be taken at any times.

[MerchantVenturer]

I was videoing the apron from inside the old terminal at Bristol several years ago. I was approached by an airport security man in company witha plain clothed police officer (he showed me his warrant card before he spoke to me, I presumed he was part of the Special Branch based at the airport). The police officer did all the talking - the security man looked on staring blankly but I had the feeling it was he who had called the police. In those days there was no uniformed police presence at the airport.

I was told I was not allowed to video from inside the terminal. We had a very civilised conversation during which I said I had been taking similar videos for years without let or hindrance and that I could take the same pictures from the public road, albeit froma slightly different angle. He agreed it was stupid but 'rules are rules'. It is no good arguing and we parted very amicably.

Last year I was standing on the grass verge of the road leading to the overflow car park at the southern end of the airport watching the aircraft. An airport security man in a vehicle arrrived and said I could not stand there as I was on airport property. I moved less than ten yards along the grass verge to where it abutted the A 38 main road - off airport property.

Exit one security man presumably satisfied that he had performed his duty well and conscientiously.

[uy707]

Boy !!! Do things becoming as crazy as in France ???!!! Allow me this story which occured at Avignon almost 10 years ago.
Driving by, I saw a TAT Fokker 100 parked in front of the terminal so I detoured and parked my car. When inside, I went to the airport commander's office room which was opened in order to file for a short termed ramp access coinciding with the aircraft departure from stand. Typically the kind of southerner who enjoys staying back whenever possible, The commander invited me to speak to a Mrs Bretteaux, the head of station. Next to a short presentation of what I do with postcards, she lifted her phone and called TAT headquarters at Tours. I was then handed over the reciever next to a conversion which proved I was a bug at best, a nuisance otherwise.
The TAT guy tried to impress me over the phone, which he off course failed. I concluded "Guess what, your airplane will be pictured anyway, which I did when it took off. And to better bug Mrs Bretteaux I sent her a print !!!
Alain

[mutt]

Considering that this happened last week, I wonder how much a print of a sparkling new US Airways CRJ700 parked under a sign for "Welcome to Jeddah" would have earned me........

Unfortunately working around a military airport has its downsides.

Mutt

[Scottie Dog]

akerosid & locohauled

Do I assume that ICTC are responsible for security for American carriers? If so, then we know and appreciate - we might not like it - how paranoid these airlines are with regards to security.

Regretably we have to accept, in this day and age, that security will be tight. Just be glad that EGCC has had the foresight to provide good facilities for the enthusiast, where we can of course be monitored if required. Such a shame though that you can not always get photgraphic records of the aircraft that you have travelled on.

Long gone are those wonderful days when one could politely visit the Publicity Department at EGCC and ask for an airside pass, and be granted it. Gosh, that shows my age!!

[shuttlebus]

Thank you all for your replies:O

Ranger 1

"if you are a passenger & as long as you don't use flash within the fuelling zone, & stick with the flow of pax"

OK, I must admit, new digital camera and the flash did fire!

witchdoctor,

"Lots of folks like to take piccies getting on/off the a/c, and as long as they're being sensible, not a problem as far as I or the crews are concerned."

What I would have expected from most airports !!!

aeftutor,

The incident happened at Belfast City and the "yeller" was from FlyBE.

locohauled,

Can't agree more. In the construction industry, H&S are paramount and "yelling at someone" is not acceptable in order to attract attenton as you outlined in your post. It is more likely to cause an accident.

If someone could let me know how, I'll post the two photos... number on shows fairly clearly that I was standing in a safe zone, the second might allow someone to ID the person who shouted - unfortunately for them? I got it on camera, complete with with arm raised in anger...

:O

Regards,

Shuttlebus

[akerosid]

I think ICTS are employed for more than just US flights at DUB; I was flying to JER last week and ICTS people were doing random checks on hand baggage. Very courteous, I have to say, in fairness.

As for LGW, I've never seen anything about photography been banned airside. I've always taken photos there and except on one occasion, when I was told that taking a photo of a Monarch 757 was not allowed due to FAA regulations (yes, you read that right), I've never been stopped.

I'm considering a letter to the leader of the Parliemantary Transport Committee; it is a pretty toothless group, but I think it is useful for enthusiasts to have a place to put our views forward. The point needs to be got across that airport authorities have a choice: they can try to make photography and an interest in aviation as difficult as possible and divert resources best employed in handling the real threat to aviation, OR they can accept that they will never discourage enthusiasts and instead, view them and deal with them as assets in the fight against terrorism. Their choice, but that choice needs to be made public.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[Kestrel_909]

I never knew FAA Regulations applied to a British carrier when in Europe:E If your going to make up some BS to stop us from photographing then please make up something reasonable.

I was stopped by one guy at BFS for simply walking through the airport with the camera around my neck. Polite, not quite. Insolent? No, not that either. Kinda in between, got his point across and exchanged words, in which he said can't take photos inside the airport, apart from in the viewing gallery which was fine. Only time I've had any questions or instructions thrown at me, no problems at LPL, AGP, or Las Palmas. None of the F/As ever said anything onboard aswell, and I try to be nice and not scare the bejessus out of them with the flash.

Those familar with DUB and the road running parallel to 10/28 and the mound, car park etc, seems fine when you shoot and film from there, but cross the road and stand by the fence someone comes along the road inside the fence and asks you stop, I didn't think they had any power outside the airport fence?

Matters of securty ok, but I guess then the Govt better take down airliners.net and every other site with photos on it on the web.

[aeftutor]

Oshkosh George

Videoing is a completely different subject and is restricted to those who have permission from the airport authorities. However we do not have a restriction on the taking of still photos.
I used to work at a sporting stadium & it was the same rules there, stills = yes but video = no.

[jetset445]

Locohauled Where abouts in T2 where you when the incident took place, I work at MAN and photography is forbidden in Arrivals from leaving the airbridges till after you have cleared customs by the relevant authorities not the airport itself. ICTS are employed by the airlines as a "second line of defence" and regularly check people and vehicles on the apron around aircraft, they also are employed by the authorities to ensure that people que up in the right places when arriving back in the teminal

[The Claw]

I've had a few cases but for me the worst was LAX. I was cleared by the PR department to take pictures from just outside the fence. No problem until a change of shift for security. Next thing I know a few thugs arrive........er, LAX police. I give them the PR ladies business card and unfortunately they can't reach her by phone. The whole time this cop is being rude and trying to provoke me........very unproffessional. Took my details but eventually let me go.

Another time was at Dulles Int. Captain of a Concorde allows me to take a few pic's onboard. Customs dude mouths off at me and almost starts a riot onboard the aircraft! Custom dude leaves and I carry on clicking!?