Career progression

[hawkwing]

I bought a B737 rating through Astreus and am strugling to find a job.
I have had no luck with my EZY application. I contacted Ryanair, and they tell me they only hire cadets who have gone through their approved flight schools.
Are there any Astreus gradutes out there who have managed to secure a job?
If you do the Ryanair rating will you get hired on completion?

[James T. Kirk]

I understand that Ryanair get a large kickback from their approved training organisations which is why they only accept graduates from these sources. Just another source of income for the Ryans. Nothing wrong with the Astraeas training, hang on in there, it will happen for you.

Kirk out.

[luckyPierre]

Friend of mine went through Astraeus. He is now flying 737s for Sky Europe. With 250 hours and 1 hour on type, lucky break me thinks.

[kpx1124]

The good news is that a buddy of mine also did the Astraeus 737 rating and after several months he has managed to find employment.

The bad news is that he is working as an instructor and had to spend another £6k for the FI rating. :D

Is there much success for low hour guys and gals with type ratings?

[sickBocks]

Seems to be fits and starts at the moment. All of a sudden there's a glut of 737 recruitment and then 'Required Type Rating of the Month' is Airbus. Hang on in there. There is a lot of expansion 737-wise in Europe and it's just a matter of time.

sB

[mikenpeters]

Thats interesting to know,

i was actually thinking of doing an Astraeus type rating. Did you do the 737 NG rating with 100 hours line training? I am currently holding 250 hours and wondering whether to go instructor route first, get 700 or so hours, then do the type rating?? Like many others the thought of instructing is not my preferred route, but the extra hours experience may help. Like everyone else i want to jump out of the type rating straight into the RHS, BUT will it happen???

[Mister Geezer]

Firstly, go for the FI route for a number of reasons.

• It will give you the extra experience that some airlines will look favourably on. You might not need to fork out all the money for a type rating in the end anyway!

• It is less of a gamble in the short term since getting an FI job will be easier then getting a 737 job and it will reduce the heart rate of your bank manager as well.

• It will keep you flying and keep your skills sharp. With only a couple of hundred of hours then you can't afford to not keep flying - if that makes sense!

• If we did have another major recession with job losses then you can fall back on your FI qualification to keep your head above water. Your FI rating can be looked upon as a investment for the future!

If you are still convinced on getting a rating then in my mind a 737 would probably be the last thing on my list. It is the 'fashionable' rating to have at the moment and I dread to think of the number of self funded 737 rated folks that are out there at the moment who are all chasing after the same airlines. If you do your homework and target an airline that might operate an aircraft type that is not as common as the 737 then you could end up being in an attractive situation if you paid for your own rating.

[eagerbeaver]

me, i got a job but then received the bullet in december without getting near an aircraft due to insufficient funding (anyone care to guess the airline) now back on the scrapheap.

[Mister Geezer]

NOW then give me a moment to think about that one!

[Artificial Horizon]

You have to be very careful buying a 737 rating because as you have found out it isn't a guarantee of a job. EasyJet won't look at you because they will ONLY get inexperienced people through their TRSS scheme so it doesn't matter with 250 - 1500 hours if you have a rating. Ryanair as you have found will only take people through their own schools.

SO be VERY careful before laying down the money. These schemes give the airline i.e. Astraeus a cheap line of pilots for the 100 hours that they are on line, they don't have to pay you and as long as they keep the courses starting regulary then it will keep them in pilots for free!!!!

[mikenpeters]

Went to see Astraeus today and have a chat, they seem like a friendly bunch of people and a very good outfit..

Going to do a ttype rating. Just got to figure out the dates.

[Arrowhead]

You gotta remember that Easyjet hires via CTC now, after some bad experiences. Astraeus do feed into BMIbaby and Excel, but these are real seasonal operations.

Best option is to sign up with Eaglejet and go work back with Astraeus, or even better go to Asia (but not Kuala Lumpur as I am hearing they dont have enough training captains to take on any more newbies).

[StudentInDebt]

I know someone who did the 737 course with AEU/Bond, took him 7 months but he finally got a short-term, possibly long-term job with an airline. In his case his previous experience as a flying instructor and his contacts made during that time helped him enormously.

Getting the 737 rating (or A320 or anything else) is not a magic ticket to an airline job. AEU/Bond admit that they cannot employ every pilot who comes off one of their type rating courses so you end up sending CVs to every operator again, this time hoping that they will notice the extra £25k you've spent. You are no longer going to be one of the few either, quite a number of people have now got a zero flight time type rating and I would be interested to see the employment statistics given that the two of the largest 737 operators in Europe do not seem to want these people.

[witchdoctor]

Just as a thought to bear in mind for those who really can't pass up the opportunity for a type rating, as mentioned above, look for operators who have a type a little less common than the 737 or A320.

For example, BACX are currently recruiting with a preference for type rated guys, but they simply can't get enough type-rated pilots for the vacancies. Other regionals are likely to be in a similar situation. How many people do you know who have bought a rating for a Barbie jet, or the Dash8 or J41? I know plenty of wannabees with 737 ratings, but no-one in the same position with a different rating and no job.

Speaking to a number of recruiters recently, they confirm that there is indeed a glut of 737 type-rated pilots on the market, which may be fine if there is a wave of recruitment for 'no-hours on type' F/O's, but it probably won't happen.

At present, my best guess would be that regional airlines, most likely turboprop operators, are going to lose a lot of pilots to the jet boys in the very short term as positions begin to open up that have been non-existent for the last 2 years. That means a lot of guys/gals to be replaced, and I would bet a pound to a pinch of **** that anyone with a relevant rating will be snapped up by the regionals pretty sharpish.

[Pilot Pete]

I think it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway, do check with said regional airline that they would look favourably on someone with a self-funded, zero-flight time type rating before you go spending extra cash on a rating which may put you no closer to a job.................

PP

[Joe_Bar]

Hawkwing,

Any luck in finding a job yet?
Looking at the replies you must be the only one without a job after doing the Astraeus course, or did you hear from others.


Cheers JB

[Groundloop]

"These schemes give the airline i.e. Astraeus a cheap line of pilots for the 100 hours that they are on line, they don't have to pay you and as long as they keep the courses starting regulary then it will keep them in pilots for free!!!!"

I thought there had to be a fully qualified FO in the jumpseat during this line training. I have heard of moans from Astraeus FO's that they don't get much hands-on flying as they are jump seating all the time, supervising the trainees. Can anyone confirm if this is the arrangement?

[Puritan]

Groundloop - Some pilots come out of the Astraeus / Bond type-rating scheme and opt for the additional 'line-training package' ( which I believe works out to be approximately £25 / hour to occupy the RHS of a B737 ).

Of course, until the newly type-rated pilot can demonstrate that they have some semblance of keeping up with the aircraft ( in real airspace, rather than in the sim ) and of being able to get it on to the runway in a safe manner, they are required to be shadowed ( from the jumpseat ) by an experienced / permanent Astraeus FO.
Exceptions to this are when the airfield is classified as CAT C in which instance the new pilot is not permitted to occupy the RHS for take-off or landing - wherein the new pilot and the Astraeus FO change seats ( i.e. at top of climb or top of descent, respectively )

Whilst there’s certainly a lot to be learnt from being able to view the whole operation from the slightly offset perspective of the jumpseat ( i.e. very akin to driving the sim ), it would be true to say that a fair few of Astraeus’ permanent FO’s are indeed beginning to feel pretty low about the number of these jump-seat / ‘shotgun’ duties that they are required to perform; if only because the jump-seat in the B737 is very uncomfortable, plus that the time spent sitting there can only be logged as P2 towards hours building, and that it puts increased pressure on passing ones 6 monthly sim assessments when one hasn’t been regularly doing the stick & rudder stuff oneself.

Imho, unless the Regulator(s) step-in to stop this practice ( which is most unlikely ), one can expect to see many more airlines jumping onto the bandwagon of 'pay-to-fly training'....... where, as such, it'll likely be coming soon to an airline near you ! :(

[BoraBora007]

It seems to me that the best way into the RHS for an fATPL holder is the CTC ATP scheme.

Why don't some of you guys try that one out instead of buying a type rating from Astraeus who have no firm links with airlines.

The ATP scheme will almost guarantee you a job, so why not go for that?

Bora

[High Wing Drifter]

No firm links? Astraeus is an airline!

[AIRWAY]

instead of buying a type rating from Astraeus who have no firm links with airlines.

:} :} :}

Try:

Astraeus (http://www.flyastraeus.com)

[BoraBora007]

:ooh:

Should I re-phrase that. You should go for an organization with firm links to an airline WHO WILL PAY YOU to fly for them as a f/o.

What is this :mad: where people pay to work for an airline, in no other industry would you pay to get some work experience.

It stinks.:ugh:

[south coast]

i agree with you 007...

what is this :mad: that people are doing. i think all the newly qualified 200-300 hours pilots should read what scroggs has written on this topic.

by paying for a type rating and the paying to do100 hours of line training you are admitting that the person who nornmally does that job isnot WORTH paying.

are we not WORTH paying these days.

with the rating, yes you might jump the queue for a job, but you will reduce your earning capacity.

if everyone just stopped with these self funded type ratings the airlines would have to train us all up at their expence and bond us for a period of time which i think we all think is pretty fair.

also, why in the uk does everyone think it is their RIGHT on completion of their cpl/ir me flight test to walk straight into a boeing or airbus.

get some real flight experience where you actually fly the plane and make decisions outside of a very strict set od s.o.p's....perhaps in general aviation, charter and contract flying around the world.